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Sergeant_Crunch posted:It also seems like there's a lot of hate for Apollo Justice, though I thought it was runner up for the best game in the series, what did people dislike about it exactly? This has explicit spoilers for AA4 and touches on everything else in the series, but I'm only tagging the AA5 specific ones: Apollo in AJ isn't really anything more than a stand-in for the player. He's not his own character. See with Phoenix, we get a good sense of his motivations and what is important to him. He became a lawyer because he wanted to save his friend who helped him out as a kid and then disappeared and turned into this weird demonic stranger. He clearly looks up to his mentor Mia and is always going back to her words, of how to always trust his clients, of how the darkest times are when lawyers have to force their biggest smiles, of how he sometimes has to turn his thinking around and think outside the box. Why did Apollo become a lawyer? Who the gently caress even knows? I mean, all we really get is that he's a big fan of Phoenix, like say the player who went through the first three games probably is. He doesn't get much more characterization than his shouting gimmick. Sure, Apollo's pissed when he finds out Phoenix tricked him into using fake evidence, but that's a pretty good approximation for how the player might feel from the revelation. Kristoph is his mentor, and yeah, finding out that Kristoph's actually a murderer throws him because holy poo poo, the guy he’s been working for is actually a freaking lunatic, but there's nothing Kristoph does that he brings up again. At least, not until he's going through some serious doubt and mimics Kristoph's mannerisms in court in 5-5. And you know what? That's one of the strengths of Dual Destinies--it establishes Apollo as a character. Apollo is copying a known sociopathic multiple murderer because he feels terrible. His best friend he's known since childhood got murdered, a friend he absolutely loved talking about and never missed an opportunity to bring him up, and here he is doubting Athena, his friend and co-worker of doing it, who he knows has no real motive, but still is lying about something and he can’t quite trust her because, come on, this is Clay we’re talking about. We know that Apollo doesn't know that his biological mother and sister are Thalassa and Trucy respectively, but we don't know anything else about his family. Does he want to know who his biological parents are? Does he think they’re dead? Is he fine with never knowing? It's kind of a shame that plot thread never really gets addressed in AA4 or AA5. And yeah, as mentioned, Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is a story about Phoenix Wright--how he lost his badge and then how he reworks the justice system to bring Kristoph down. Apollo doesn't even show up for most of 4-4, and in the final trial, he's just there to move the pieces to their logical conclusions, conclusions that everyone playing the game already knows. It just highlights how inconsequential Apollo is in the grand scheme of things.
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Mar 23, 2014 08:03
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ImpAtom posted:It was poorly plotted to begin with. Apollo was a side character in his own game, Phoenix getting disbarred 'offscreen' was an incredibly unsatisfying plot development, the prosecution was pretty weak, the cases were fairly lackuluster and in general it just did a lot wrong. Ace Attorney 5 did a much better job with Apollo then his own game did. I see, I can't say I honestly disagree with any of those points, though I still love the game regardless. I'm probably just looking back on it with rose tinted glasses. I still say the final case had about the best opener in the entire series when you examine the paintings and see key pieces of your previous trials, though I can't honestly remember how that played into the trial.
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Mar 23, 2014 08:10
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Hedrigall posted:5 days until Layton Vs Wright comes out Do I need to know what happened in all the Layton games?
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Mar 23, 2014 08:43
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Austrian mook posted:Do I need to know what happened in all the Layton games? I doubt it, I've played up to Unwound Future and they were all self-contained.
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Mar 23, 2014 09:44
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Let's be honest, Dual Destinies isn't a Phoenix Wright game so much as it is the Apollo Justice game we should've had. Terper put it best earlier in the thread:Terper posted:Basically, after Apollo Justice, I didn't want Apollo Justice 2, but after Apollo Justice 2, I want Apollo Justice 3.
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Mar 23, 2014 12:07
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Heatwizard posted:I doubt it, I've played up to Unwound Future and they were all self-contained. Layton for the most part is pretty episodic and self-contained, though #6 (Azran Legacy) is more or less a capstone to the prequels and refers to events in the prior 2 games and movie, but nothing essential.
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Mar 23, 2014 12:24
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:I see, I can't say I honestly disagree with any of those points, though I still love the game regardless. I'm probably just looking back on it with rose tinted glasses. I still say the final case had about the best opener in the entire series when you examine the paintings and see key pieces of your previous trials, though I can't honestly remember how that played into the trial. As someone who also liked the Apollo Justice game and character, I'm kind of in the same boat. I will admit, part of it IS down to the aesthetic - I love the red waistcoat, and the rolled up sleeves, its got that kind of 'formal, but not too much' feel going for it. That said, yeah, Apollo really needed more characterisation outside of the player surrogate stuff. The problem is that whilst the overall plot is intriguing I find (if rendered a bit pointless and moot by Dual Destinies), its Apollo's freaking name on the box, and yet it really isn't his story. Most of the stuff that should logically be his to discover and solve, is solved by Phoenix in either an extended flashback, or whilst Apollo is busy with a trial to finish - he's left entirely out of the loop about the truth, and the game's freaking end credits are the closest we get to whether or not he'll ever learn a thing about it. By contrast, even when the other sequel games had finales where the bulk of the intrigue didn't technically concern Phoenix, the writers found ways to make the whole thing relevant to him beyond merely 'another case to solve'. In Justice For All, Maya is kidnapped, with her fate depending on Phoenix' performance in court. In Trials and Tribulations, Phoenix' ex-girlfriend and her relationship with him is the ultimate root of most of the finale's troubles, the consequences of that time unfolding in the present day. In the former example, it keeps the finale from being 'just another case', whilst the latter keeps it from being 'Maya's case'. Dual Destinies did drat well then to make the finale both Apollo's case, but Athena's as well.
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Mar 23, 2014 12:57
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:I see, I can't say I honestly disagree with any of those points, though I still love the game regardless. I'm probably just looking back on it with rose tinted glasses. I still say the final case had about the best opener in the entire series when you examine the paintings and see key pieces of your previous trials, though I can't honestly remember how that played into the trial. It wasn't even just evidence. Those paintings appear on the Case Select menu after you beat a case. It never really plays into the trial, but its used to establish during the investigation that the painter kept abreast of Apollo's exploits out of guilt for what he did to Phoenix.
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Mar 23, 2014 13:07
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Apollo Justice has my favorite cross-examination theme going for it, so good job there. AJ as a whole feels way more "dark age of the law" than DD ever did, and the music is a big part of that.
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Mar 23, 2014 13:10
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Terper posted:Apollo Justice has my favorite cross-examination theme going for it, so good job there. AJ as a whole feels way more "dark age of the law" than DD ever did, and the music is a big part of that. Ah god, I'd forgotten about the music. Probably helps that it was able to be built for the DS from the ground up, rather than adapting music from the GBA. Its all so drat atmospheric.
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Mar 23, 2014 13:17
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Austrian mook posted:Do I need to know what happened in all the Layton games? Layton vs. Wright is a non-canon story for both series, and you don't need to know anything about either to play it.
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Mar 23, 2014 13:31
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Strange Quark posted:Words about AJ, and why it was the worst. I also wanted to just chime in on how bad everything involving Phoenix's disbarment was. It wasn't so much that it happened, that could have been a decent plot point, but just how poorly it was explained. Firstly, no one is questioning how Klavier knew exactly what was forged and who forged it or the fact that he didn't tell anyone ahead of time and seemingly just created a trap to win his first trial. That's suspicious as all hell. Secondly, Phoenix was put on the case literally one day prior so there was absolutely no way he could have had forged evidence made. Not to mention he doesn't have the finances for it. Anyone with half a brain could tell he was set up, and poorly at that. Thirdly, where was Maya to go, "Something doesn't seem right, Nick"? She's just inexplicably missing. I know she could be back in Kurain, but why even bother having a flashback if you aren't going to include Phoenix's partner? Fourthly, why would it take seven years to do anything? At least according to that weird Mason System thing, Phoenix presented Kristoph's picture to Vera within the first year so he knew who was behind it from the start. What took so long? Fifthly, why was he disbarred at all? We've already seen proof that Manfred von Karma and Miles Edgeworth presented false evidence and Von Karma just got a penalty and Edgeworth just got an investigation into him. Why was Phoenix stripped of his badge and made a public pariah? Nothing about it makes any sense.
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Mar 23, 2014 14:48
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Someone should throw together a new thread for Layton Vs. Wright. I don't wanna have to dance around spoilers until it comes out in the US. 
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Mar 23, 2014 15:07
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Regy Rusty posted:Someone should throw together a new thread for Layton Vs. Wright. I don't wanna have to dance around spoilers until it comes out in the US. I don't see the need for it as long as people do a good job labeling those spoilers as such. This should probably be renamed as a general Ace Attorney thread, really.
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Mar 23, 2014 16:19
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Austrian mook posted:Do I need to know what happened in all the Layton games? "Look, Professor! A supernatural phenomenon!" "No, Luke, I'm sure there's a perfectly mundane yet even more implausibly bullshit explanation. Which reminds me of a puzzle..." There. Now you're all caught up.
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Mar 23, 2014 18:23
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Suspicious Cook posted:I also wanted to just chime in on how bad everything involving Phoenix's disbarment was. It wasn't so much that it happened, that could have been a decent plot point, but just how poorly it was explained. While it's a pretty poor plot development and an even worse way to send a character off (I like the guy. Learning that he spent seven years as a near hobo plotting revenge wasn't really nice). However, a couple of your points are either answered or easily explained: Phoenix can't prove he wasn't in charge of the trial, because attorneys are only registered the day before the trial. Stupid and a bit hard to believe, but hey, it's not the only occurence of fuckery in the legal world of AA. Maya not being around, well, she's not around. It's not the fist time she went back to Kurain, and she's probably even busier now that she's the Master of Kurain. Finally, Edgeworth and Karma could get away with that kind of poo poo becuse they are influential prosecutors. Meaning they wield a lot of power. Phoenix is not on their level of political clout. That and he was disbarred by a comittee of attorneys, not the same kind of instances prosecutors would go. What really gets me is how Klavier just goes along with Kristoph's convenient knowledge of forgery being made for a case and timing. Especially a case he was handling. And Klavier knew his brother could be a twisted bastard.
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Mar 23, 2014 18:54
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Wonderslug posted:"Look, Professor! A supernatural phenomenon!" That's really more the original trilogy. The prequel trilogy lets a lot more things just be what they are.
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Mar 23, 2014 19:03
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Waffleman_ posted:That's really more the original trilogy. The prequel trilogy lets a lot more things just be what they are. Not so much Last Specter. Thought a ghost seemed too far-fetched? How about it turning out to really be the Loch Ness monster fighting a robot?
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Mar 23, 2014 19:27
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I loving love Layton series logic. (Diabolical Box spoilers) Vampire? Heavens, no. Much too far fetched. Hallucinogenic gas that causes everyone to see themselves and everything as they imagine them to be, causing everyone to simultaneously imagine the exact same landmarks where none exist and see a man as his own image of eternally youthful, to the point where believing that a box will kill you will in fact cause you to die? Yes, that makes MUCH more sense. By the way, thanks for dropping your loving teacups all over the place while you were imagining giving them to people who were never there to begin with.
Plom Bar fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 20:14
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Apollo Justice was not helped by having a really terrible third case. The killer's motive and actions were just bizarre.
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Mar 23, 2014 21:12
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Apollo Justice was not helped by having a really terrible third case. The killer's motive and actions were just bizarre. But Capcom can do FMV on the DS! Do you understand that they can do FMV? Maybe they should show you the video again, just so you can be sure.
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Mar 23, 2014 21:21
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Apollo Justice was not helped by having a really terrible third case. The killer's motive and actions were just bizarre. Yeah, this series has a history with having the 3rd case be pretty filler and usually the weakest of all of them, but 4-3 was just terrible. Good lord. There have been some dumb excuses to convict clearly innocent people, but that takes the cake.
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Mar 23, 2014 21:28
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Austrian mook posted:Yeah, this series has a history with having the 3rd case be pretty filler and usually the weakest of all of them, but 4-3 was just terrible. Good lord. There have been some dumb excuses to convict clearly innocent people, but that takes the cake. Listen, I don't think you understand the FMV technology. Have you seen the video? I'm gonna show you a bit of the video again. gently caress that video, Capcom. The one in Rise from the Ashes looked better.
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Mar 23, 2014 21:36
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I think the biggest flaw in Apollo Justice is that the main cast either isn't given motivation at all, or their motives are weird and nonsensical. We know why Phoenix wanted to be a lawyer, and his character grows around his interaction with Edgeworth. We know why Edgeworth, Franziska and Godot are prosecutors, and we see the first two struggling to break away from Manfred von Karma, and the latter come to terms with Phoenix. We don't know why Apollo is an attorney, and he doesn't really grow during the game, except into a slightly more confident lawyer. There's a vague shape of something there (he wins his first case using illegal evidence produced by Phoenix, and it shakes his faith in Phoenix, only to be promptly ignored for the rest of the game. Then, in his last case, he presents illegal evidence produced by Phoenix, and argues a case strong enough to sway a jury), but it's never directly addressed and there's no real growth in his relationship with Phoenix. Likewise, Klavier's only given motivation is the pursuit of truth, and even that isn't reflected in his actions in courth. He withholds vital information and pressures witnesses to lie for him if it'll make his case easier, which makes sense for the von Karmas, but not for someone who's supposed to be an honest prosecutor. It's even a step back from Godot, who was never explicitly touted as an honest opponent, but whose most underhanded trick was trying to end cross-examinations because Phoenix didn't actually have any proof. Trucy is a magician because she comes from a family of magicians. She works at the Wright Agency because Phoenix adopted her and depends on her. Ema is a detective because it's the closest thing to forensics that she can do. It's not the deepest, but it's there and internally consistent, which puts them ahead of anyone else. For the more spoilery characters, Kristoph doesn't really get any motivation. He forged because he really wanted to be the man who defended Zak Gramarye, and framed Phoenix as petty revenge and committed all the murders to cover things up. He's a perfectionist who's obsessed with procedure. Nothing is really tied together and it kinda falls flat. His relationship with Klavier isn't really explored, either, and his relationship with Phoenix is a big loving mess. Phoenix simultaneously knew he was the forger for seven years while also suddenly growing suspicious when he realizes he and Zak knew each other. Zak chose to abandon his daughter and disappear for good rather than be tried (and appeal tried, as it turns out) for a murder he obviously didn't commit and was surrounded by mitigating circumstances. When he eventually resurfaces to pass on his inheritance to Trucy, he also tried to retroactively ruin Phoenix' "illustrious" career and what shreds of his reputation were left, out of petty spite. Phoenix Wright, the man who took in his daughter after Zak abandoned her and is her sole provider. Phoenix Wright, the man who continued to plead Zak's innocence instead of his own, after Zak's daughter gave him forged evidence and cost him his career. He also ended up confessing to the murder to save Valant's career, right as he finishes ruining it by giving Trucy the rights to Magnifi's magic. He deliberately finds a way to ruin everyone he's supposed to care for, and it's never addressed. Phoenix' motivation doesn't really seem to go past clearing his name and finding a way to convict Kristoph. His relationship with Apollo never really grows, his relationship with Kristoph is kind of dismissed, and he doesn't really address Zak's nature. The only nuance he gets is that though he kind of exploits Trucy's Perception, he also deeply cares for her. On the other hand, it has a solid cast of side characters, with compelling backgrounds and believable motivations. The Kitakis, Guy Eldoon, Alita Tiala and Pal Meraktis all have believable motivations that tie together well and along with a detective who's actually on your side, they make the investigation sections enjoyable. Then they make you spend a whole trial day on Wesley Stickler... and the second day also has some weak points. Also the trial days of case 3 and the last trial day of case 4 kinda blow... the trial sections of the game are weak in general, I guess. Lamiroir, Valant Gramarye, Daryan Crescend, the Mishams and Spark Brushel are also all believable and likable. Even Klavier is good in case 3 during the investigation scenes.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:11
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Plom Bar posted:I loving love Layton series logic. (Diabolical Box spoilers) Vampire? Heavens, no. Much too far fetched. Hallucinogenic gas that causes everyone to see themselves and everything as they imagine them to be, causing everyone to simultaneously imagine the exact same landmarks where none exist and see a man as his own image of eternally youthful, to the point where believing that a box will kill you will in fact cause you to die? Yes, that makes MUCH more sense. By the way, thanks for dropping your loving teacups all over the place while you were imagining giving them to people who were never there to begin with. Azran Legacy takes the case. No stupid supernatural poo poo. Just a race of genocidal sentient worker robots who shoot death lasers from their dicks. Of course this is the same series that has the American Southwest as a few hours drive from London, England.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:45
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ayn rand hand job posted:Azran Legacy takes the case. No stupid supernatural poo poo. Just a race of genocidal sentient worker robots who shoot death lasers from their dicks. They were on an airship, man. The point was they were going all around the world. I think it's even said that it took a while to get to places.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:50
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Waffleman_ posted:They were on an airship, man. The point was they were going all around the world. I think it's even said that it took a while to get to places. They weren't on an airship in Miracle Mask. 
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Mar 23, 2014 22:50
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Waffleman_ posted:They were on an airship, man. The point was they were going all around the world. I think it's even said that it took a while to get to places. They visited Monte D'Or in Azran Legacy?
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Mar 23, 2014 22:52
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Kajeesus posted:For the more spoilery characters, Kristoph doesn't really get any motivation. He forged because he really wanted to be the man who defended Zak Gramarye, and framed Phoenix as petty revenge and committed all the murders to cover things up. He's a perfectionist who's obsessed with procedure. Nothing is really tied together and it kinda falls flat. His relationship with Klavier isn't really explored, either, and his relationship with Phoenix is a big loving mess. Phoenix simultaneously knew he was the forger for seven years while also suddenly growing suspicious when he realizes he and Zak knew each other. While I'll admit Apollo Justice has its problems (and I really did love that game) I think that Kristoph is one of the most brilliantly-handled characters in the series. I've mentioned before he's my favorite fictional character of all time and that's because there are layers and layers of subtext to the guy. In a series not really known for much subtext (if you ignore the squeals of the fangirls) that's a big deal. Yes, he's a perfectionist with a law obsession, but he's also prone to fits of rage because of it, and it's implied that his fingers have been in so many cases and so many lives from before the series even started. His motive wasn't just not being able to defend Zak Gramarye, it was his perfect worldview being ruined by that pesky outlier, Phoenix Wright. One of the most interesting implications is part of the Kristoph/Klavier relationship - or the possible lack thereof. When we see younger Klavier in the flashback case, he has short hair, but modern-day Klavier has the exact same hair as his older brother. It's implied that the two haven't seen each other for quite a while, so why is the younger brother still copying his older brother's hairstyle? C'mon man, that's lame. Sure, you can argue that it's just lazy design work, but I think it was more to indicate just how much control and influence Kristoph had over Klavier's life despite not even being there for so long. The scars run deep. Now onto major Dual Destinies spoilers. This is further evidenced by Klavier's new models. The dude looks dead inside. I really think that the way they animated his face and eyes was a design choice, because he just looks so beaten up by everything he went through last game between his brother being revealed to be completely insane and his bandmate being convicted of murder. One of the coolest things I feel about Dual Destinies is how much it tells us without telling us, such as the inferences that can be gathered from the model. One other thing it tells us without telling us is that, in the end, Kristoph won. Yes, he was convicted by a panel of Jurists (and yes, I know the reason for the system being introduced and quietly shelved, but bear with me) and yes, he was sentenced, but his absence in Dual Destinies fills the entire game like a dark cloud. A lot of criticism I see Dual Destinies get is that the Dark Age Of The Law seems to come out of nowhere or doesn't make sense but it actually does just not in the way it's immediately presented in-game. Examining the series shows it to be more of a gradual darkening than a sudden storm, with Phoenix's disbarment being the final straw. We've established that in previous conversations, but one thing that people miss is that the events of Apollo Justice only made it worse. Phoenix himself had to actually play by the rules of forged evidence and misdirection that everyone else was playing by in order to get anything up on Kristoph Gavin and by introducing the Jurist System only to use it in an underhanded and subversive manner in the name of justice, he only damaged the public's view of the law even further. Apollo Justice doesn't have a happy ending, no matter how it's presented in-game, and that point's only strengthened further with Dual Destinies. No wonder the Jurist System was tossed out when in its very first use Phoenix basically pulled a "same old poo poo" in the public's eyes. Furthermore, Dual Destinies shows that his influence is inescapable, not just in the state of the law, but in the people. I've mentioned Klavier, but Apollo himself was so affected by what he went through in the previous game that he resorted to emulating the guy just to try and get some semblance of truth. And if Kristoph influenced him enough that he copied the guy's body language, what else did he teach Apollo? I could get into the black psyche locks and their meaning at this point but it would extend this giant black block of text even further. I just want to close off by raising the point that there is nothing scarier than a man who believes he is completely right and many of the best villains in the world of fiction by playing to that. Kristoph is no exception. Throughout everything he is a character who works with exact purpose because he knows that everything he is doing is exactly the right thing to do to keep the world exactly how he wants it and that is why he is so fascinating to me. What we see in Apollo Justice is just the tip of a very large iceberg that is never fully laid out to us and may never be. I apologize for the spergy wall of text and wild and probably off-base theorizing but drat do I love me some Kristoph. If I mixed up my details or wording it's likely due to it being 2AM.
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Mar 24, 2014 07:31
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E: Spoils for Apollo Justice and DD further down.MattTheDoctor posted:While I'll admit Apollo Justice has its problems (and I really did love that game) I think that Kristoph is one of the most brilliantly-handled characters in the series. I've mentioned before he's my favorite fictional character of all time and that's because there are layers and layers of subtext to the guy. In a series not really known for much subtext (if you ignore the squeals of the fangirls) that's a big deal. Yes, he's a perfectionist with a law obsession, but he's also prone to fits of rage because of it, and it's implied that his fingers have been in so many cases and so many lives from before the series even started. His motive wasn't just not being able to defend Zak Gramarye, it was his perfect worldview being ruined by that pesky outlier, Phoenix Wright. I think I may have been a bit harsh in my phrasing. He is actually one of my favorite characters in the series, and I'm not asking for a tragic backstory or anything, but I just didn't really like the black psychelocks implying there was some kind of deeper darkness, only for the actual trial to reveal literally nothing about Kristoph that we didn't already know. MattTheDoctor posted:
I read somewhere that the official reason is that the designers were struggling to create a good design for Kristoph until after they'd designed Klavier, and found that they could incorporate a lot of the same elements, but that's a brilliant way to read it. Sold. MattTheDoctor posted:Now onto major Dual Destinies spoilers. This one I'm not buying, though. All the animations from Apollo Justice lost a bit of life between the games. Look at Apollo's "thinking" animation between the games. In AJ, his face is scrunched up in concentration, and he his jabbing that index finger into his forehead as if it helps him focus, while in DD, he just kinda looks down while poking himself. His desk slam is nowhere near as intense. It's not as notable for Apollo because he gets a new set of animations that ooze personality, and Trucy only has a minor role and one excellent new animation, but Klavier just gets all the same animations. If they wanted to say this, there would have been some other indication. MattTheDoctor posted:One other thing it tells us without telling us is that, in the end, Kristoph won. Yes, he was convicted by a panel of Jurists (and yes, I know the reason for the system being introduced and quietly shelved, but bear with me) and yes, he was sentenced, but his absence in Dual Destinies fills the entire game like a dark cloud. A lot of criticism I see Dual Destinies get is that the Dark Age Of The Law seems to come out of nowhere or doesn't make sense but it actually does just not in the way it's immediately presented in-game. Examining the series shows it to be more of a gradual darkening than a sudden storm, with Phoenix's disbarment being the final straw. We've established that in previous conversations, but one thing that people miss is that the events of Apollo Justice only made it worse. Phoenix himself had to actually play by the rules of forged evidence and misdirection that everyone else was playing by in order to get anything up on Kristoph Gavin and by introducing the Jurist System only to use it in an underhanded and subversive manner in the name of justice, he only damaged the public's view of the law even further. Apollo Justice doesn't have a happy ending, no matter how it's presented in-game, and that point's only strengthened further with Dual Destinies. No wonder the Jurist System was tossed out when in its very first use Phoenix basically pulled a "same old poo poo" in the public's eyes. I don't disagree with any of this, but I do wish there were some indication that it was actually the writers' intent. As it's presented, [spoiler]all of Phoenix' actions were right and good, and the public adores him after his name was cleared. A point, though: I don't think it's ever stated that Kristoph was convicted by jury, just that it was enough to find Vera innocent. He was already on death row, I'm pretty sure. It's a better reading, for sure. MattTheDoctor posted:Furthermore, Dual Destinies shows that his influence is inescapable, not just in the state of the law, but in the people. I've mentioned Klavier, but Apollo himself was so affected by what he went through in the previous game that he resorted to emulating the guy just to try and get some semblance of truth. And if Kristoph influenced him enough that he copied the guy's body language, what else did he teach Apollo? I can't imagine he taught Apollo anything we don't already know. Phoenix emulates Mia's body language and builds his career on her life lessons. I don't think Kristoph and Apollo's defense methods would have a lot in common, though, with the exception of both believing evidence to be tantamount and Apollo really wanting to be cool. I can't imagine Kristoph would have Apollo's predilection for airing all of the defendant's dirty laundry, and Apollo certainly does not care for using underhanded methods. We also know that Apollo has more refined tastes than Phoenix, which could come from working with Kristoph. MattTheDoctor posted:I could get into the black psyche locks and their meaning at this point but it would extend this giant black block of text even further. Please do, because that is one thing I don't really ever got. 
Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 10:34
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Just finished case 3 of Ace Attorney Investigation 2 not too long ago. It will be a very long time before they make another case 3 as good as that one.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:Just finished case 3 of Ace Attorney Investigation 2 not too long ago. For some reason, I didn't find the villain to be all too evil. he was acting purely in self defense, if I recall E: Also yeah AAI-2 is a really, really good video game.
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Mar 25, 2014 19:04
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Ugh, I had blocked so much of that game out. It really is full of nonsensical and unrelatable actions by the central cast. I hate that stupid game.
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Mar 25, 2014 19:16
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Austrian mook posted:For some reason, I didn't find the villain to be all too evil. he was acting purely in self defense, if I recall If he didn't go all HAHA I WIN FOOLISH ATTORNEY at the very end and morph into a monster when it looked like he'd won I would agree with you, the victim was an rear end in a top hat, his motive was pretty sympathetic (if you can't taste as a cook you're probably screwed), and he got backstabbed and then attacked with a rock lamp. He's more sympathetic than that ending makes him look though.
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Mar 25, 2014 20:39
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TheKingofSprings posted:If he didn't go all HAHA I WIN FOOLISH ATTORNEY at the very end and morph into a monster when it looked like he'd won I would agree with you, the victim was an rear end in a top hat, his motive was pretty sympathetic (if you can't taste as a cook you're probably screwed), and he got backstabbed and then attacked with a rock lamp. He's more sympathetic than that ending makes him look though. There's also the whole "I could care less about my child" thing but I just sort of found that goofy. That said, I don't think the series will ever top this, as far as a case 3 goes. Getting to finish up Edgeworth's daddy issues baggage is a really nice feeling, and playing as Gregory was pretty incredible, case 4 and 5 are possibly even better, believe it or not. E: Case 3 AAI-2 Austrian mook fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 20:58
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TheKingofSprings posted:It will be a very long time before they make another case 3 as good as that one. This is not an emptyquote, but it is an emptyquote in spirit. I also love it because I totally pulled an Oldbag and suspected the right guy for the entirely wrong reasons, which is really funny to me for some reason.
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Mar 25, 2014 22:39
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When you quote a post that is entirely spoilers and respond with entirely spoilers, could you denote somewhere what the spoilers are for? I'd hate to accidentally spoil myself on AAI2.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:35
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TheKingofSprings posted:If he didn't go all HAHA I WIN FOOLISH ATTORNEY at the very end and morph into a monster when it looked like he'd won I would agree with you, the victim was an rear end in a top hat, his motive was pretty sympathetic (if you can't taste as a cook you're probably screwed), and he got backstabbed and then attacked with a rock lamp. He's more sympathetic than that ending makes him look though. And of all the people he could have tried framing, it was the most annoying character in the case.
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Mar 27, 2014 20:09
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Apparently it's cheaper right now to get the physical copy from Amazon than the digital copy from the eShop. Okay.
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Mar 28, 2014 15:28
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Jeabus Mahogany posted:Apparently it's cheaper right now to get the physical copy from Amazon than the digital copy from the eShop. Okay. I don't think the Japanese release has an English option though.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:35
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