|
Daniel Bryan posted:This is a lot of words that aren't responding to what I said. I never said anything about a fair fight. Armstrong's arm was coming down for the three, and Ziggler wasn't moving. That was my point. Are you literally JBL?
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 16:45 |
|
|
I think people need to set their expectations about Ziggler. We are almost on the Road to Wrestlemania, they are going to have a lot going on and Ziggler is going to get lost in the shuffle. Basically look at how Daniel Bryan was being booked before the crowd forced them to put him in the Mania main event. Ziggler is popular but I don't think we will see a movement of fans hijacking shows to make WWE push him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:I think people need to set their expectations about Ziggler. We are almost on the Road to Wrestlemania, they are going to have a lot going on and Ziggler is going to get lost in the shuffle. I don't think a fun Intercontinental title match to open the show is out of the question especially now there's no more World Heavyweight Championship
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
oatgan posted:I don't think a fun Intercontinental title match to open the show is out of the question especially now there's no more World Heavyweight Championship Well yeah, that's exactly the slot I would expect Ziggler to be in. It sounds like some people are expecting last night to be Ziggler's star-making moment, where he's going to be the next big thing or something. It was a great moment and all, but so was Kofi Kingston putting Orton through a table in MSG.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:Well yeah, that's exactly the slot I would expect Ziggler to be in. I don't think he's the new top guy or anything but this was way, WAY bigger than that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:Well yeah, that's exactly the slot I would expect Ziggler to be in. A better comparison would be Kofi beating Orton and Punk at..Survivor Series.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
SamuraiFoochs posted:I don't think he's the new top guy or anything but this was way, WAY bigger than that. To me it just smacks of them building up a guy on a free PPV to be fed to someone else later. Give him a bit of credibility before Brock deccimates him on the Slammys or maybe HHH destroys him to build his match with Sting. Dolph's mutant power is selling so he'll take an F5 or Pedigree and fly into the upper deck of the arena.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:I think people need to set their expectations about Ziggler. We are almost on the Road to Wrestlemania, they are going to have a lot going on and Ziggler is going to get lost in the shuffle. I don't think anyone denies that Ziggler can, and likely will, get derailed and lost in the shuffle after this. But people are saying that this match and finish weren't a big push and made him look weak, and that's absolute nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
flashy_mcflash posted:To me it just smacks of them building up a guy on a free PPV to be fed to someone else later. Give him a bit of credibility before Brock deccimates him on the Slammys or maybe HHH destroys him to build his match with Sting. Agreed, Brock and Hunter are definitely 2 guys that need Ziggler to get them over. So much so that they are even building up Ziggler in advance for this to be sweeter
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:45
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:I don't think anyone denies that Ziggler can, and likely will, get derailed and lost in the shuffle after this. But people are saying that this match and finish weren't a big push and made him look weak, and that's absolute nonsense. Honestly I wonder how much of what was done in the ring was just Rollins, Ziggler and the agent making a great ending sequence. Like Ziggler looked like a superstar because him and Rollins were doing amazing stuff in the ring with lots of great false finishes. If he was in there with Kane it would have been much different and wouldn't have done as much for Ziggler. Almost like Ziggler & Seth were trying to go all out and "steal the show" from Sting & HHH who were the real main event of that match.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:47
|
|
|
I think if they play their cards right, putting Dolph in the path to winning RR next year (he ain't winning this year) is very doable. But WWE is, has, and will continue to be weird about long term planning outside of 2-3 specific guys.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:47
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:I don't think anyone denies that Ziggler can, and likely will, get derailed and lost in the shuffle after this. But people are saying that this match and finish weren't a big push and made him look weak, and that's absolute nonsense. Dolph looked good but he didn't get the job done himself. It took an old, over the hill, wrestler to put his dead corpse on top of Rollins. Afterwards, Cena came out to hold his hand up. That's been the problem with the WWE's booking for years. Instead of letting a star making moment stand on it's own, they revert back to nostalgia acts and Cena/Orton. Making Ziggler look like the hero would have been as easy as Dolph getting on top of Rollins out of pure instinct after Sting evened the odds and having one of the announcers say that it looked like Team Ziggler won after one of the others called it Team Cena. That's it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:01
|
|
|
Call Me Charlie posted:Dolph looked good but he didn't get the job done himself. It took an old, over the hill, wrestler to put his dead corpse on top of Rollins. Afterwards, Cena came out to hold his hand up. so are we just ignoring the first three count and the second like 12 count Dolph had on Rollins, or what?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:08
|
|
|
Call Me Charlie posted:Dolph looked good but he didn't get the job done himself. It took an old, over the hill, wrestler to put his dead corpse on top of Rollins. Afterwards, Cena came out to hold his hand up. He got the job done himself like 3 times. There were 3 visual pins. Everyone knows that Ziggler won that match clean. It was fine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
Call Me Charlie posted:Dolph looked good but he didn't get the job done himself. fatherdog posted:It took seven people to make Ziggler lose the match and only one to make him win. John Cena has faced better odds than that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
sportsgenius86 posted:so are we just ignoring the first three count and the second like 12 count Dolph had on Rollins, or what? Or the fact that Dolph was already dead when it was down to 3 on 1 and still managed to get pinfalls on Kane and Harper (and was responsible for removing Rusev earlier) even before he managed to take down Rollins twice only for him to be saved by HHH. Oh, also he took on the stooges as well when they ran into the ring and managed to fight them off as well. Yeah, Ziggler sure came out of that match looking like a loser.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
sportsgenius86 posted:so are we just ignoring the first three count and the second like 12 count Dolph had on Rollins, or what? Apparently. Some people just want to be really pessimistic about this so when they don't end up doing anything with Ziggler they don't get annoyed since they can convince themselves they never made him look good. Ziggler looked like a goddamn world beater last night, and as someone I was watching the PPV with last night said, Sting just made sure the guy who already visually beat around 8 people twice actually got what he deserved. Saying "he really didn't get the job done" is loving something JBL would say.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:13
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Or the fact that Dolph was already dead when it was down to 3 on 1 and still managed to get pinfalls on Kane and Harper (and was responsible for removing Rusev earlier) even before he managed to take down Rollins twice only for him to be saved by HHH. Oh, also he took on the stooges as well when they ran into the ring and manages to fight them off as well. I think there are a few different arguments going on about Dolph. But my general test to see how "serious" WWE is about someone is to ask: Would they have done this to Stone Cold? Or The Rock? Or hell, HHH? Or even Roman Reigns if you want a current example. Can you picture Stone Cold putting up an amazing fight but getting knocked out and dragged onto someone else for the pin, and then two older dudes stare down in the ring after? Dolph didn't come out of it looking like a loser but WWE obviously isn't as high on him as they are with guys they actually want to push.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
Anybody can look good on a single night. We'll see if Ziggler is feuding with Kane or doing something that matters.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:15
|
|
|
If Sting came back at any time I can pretty much see anyone get that ending in order to have Sting undo the evil groups plans, yes. Except Austin but that's on an entirely different level and time period.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
I don't get Ziggler's appeal. He's a washed-up mid-card who has zero personality and no ability to cut a promo. It's not that I want him gone or anything- the roster is bad enough as it is. But the whole time he was getting a pop for beating up Rollins, my household could not comprehend why people cared at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:17
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:I think there are a few different arguments going on about Dolph. But my general test to see how "serious" WWE is about someone is to ask: Would they have done this to Stone Cold? Or The Rock? Or hell, HHH? Or even Roman Reigns if you want a current example. At the 2003 Survivor Series, Shawn Michaels got put into pretty much the exact same situation as Dolph Ziggler last night and COULDN'T get the job done.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:18
|
|
|
Does your household hate underdogs fighting against the odds and pulling out a victory? Is your household the McMahon household? Dude's loving popular. Even when he does nothing and loses in 4 minutes he's generally over with crowds. He's a great wrestler with a lot of physical charisma and practically kills himself every night. He's not the greatest promo but he's not bad either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
Big Coffin Hunter posted:Does your household hate underdogs fighting against the odds and pulling out a victory? Is your household the McMahon household? I think Vince likes John Cena.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:At the 2003 Survivor Series, Shawn Michaels got put into pretty much the exact same situation as Dolph Ziggler last night and COULDN'T get the job done. Fair enough! I wasn't exactly saying it NEVER happened, just speaking in broad strokes. I guess my main point is that it's clear when WWE is high on someone (like Roman) and when they think someone is a good hand and will give them little start stop pushes. I'm not even trying to be really negative and gloomy about it, just realistic. If they come out and push Dolph to the moon tonight, great! But I was stoked about them pushing Ryback last week and that worked out real well for me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
Cast Iron Brick posted:I don't get Ziggler's appeal. He's a washed-up mid-card who has zero personality and no ability to cut a promo. He's great in the ring, one of the best at telling a story through actions and actually can cut a pretty solid promo when he is allowed to speak.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
Also Seth got dragged onto Ziggler (by Hunter) the same way Dolph did with Sting
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Cast Iron Brick posted:I don't get Ziggler's appeal. He's a washed-up mid-card who has zero personality and no ability to cut a promo. lol
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Ziggler's awesome  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvh3Tq4T8Ps&t=323s
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:25
|
|
|
Ziggler is "not John Cena", therefore, desirable. In "way too focused on entrance music" news, Erick Rowan's music is perfect, but why the hell didn't Sting come out to an orchestrated remix of his WCW music like in this commercial?! The music he came out to was weird. EDIT: Or exactly like this to be even more specific. El Generico fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Nov 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:27
|
|
|
Is Rowan's music up anywhere yet?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
It was a wonderful performance from Ziggler, to the point where the finish almost doesn't matter. He put on a hell of a show and couldn't have possibly performed better. Who knows what happens to him after this, but there's no taking that away from him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
El Generico posted:In "way too focused on entrance music" news, Erick Rowan's music is perfect, but why the hell didn't Sting come out to an orchestrated remix of his WCW music like in this commercial?! The music he came out to was weird. Yeah Sting's entrance music was really weird, I need to listen to it again to see what I think of it. When Orton came out to This Fire Burns that one time I thought it was a terrible entrance, but it grew on me. Maybe Sting's will be the same.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:34
|
|
|
Did anyone else think Harper just looked like a killer last night? The physical presence he had kept reminding me of young Undertaker. Harper's dive to the outside always freaks me out too, it doesn't seem like it should happen. Plus his brutal clothesline 
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Here's a clip of the audio from Survivor Series where it was playing. I really like how it sounds both hillbilly and melancholy, and yet the bells make it sound appropriate for a babyface. It just suits his character so perfectly, it's kind of amazing. EDIT: Oh yeah, and Harper and Rowan both had great titantron videos, but the former Shield members still have the same really awful ones. Weird.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
El Generico posted:...but why the hell didn't Sting come out to an orchestrated remix of his WCW music like in this commercial?! The music he came out to was weird. It's a really weird decision to not have remixed his classic theme, considering they used it in all the WWE 2K15 commercials
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
The only way the Sting entrance would have been better to me would be if Steve Austin came out afterwards and gave Sting and Dolph a beer
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:It's a really weird decision to not have remixed his classic theme, considering they used it in all the WWE 2K15 commercials Only thing I can figure is that 2K did the advertising for the game and worked out the rights for that song, and WWE didn't want to pay for it on their programming?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:Only thing I can figure is that 2K did the advertising for the game and worked out the rights for that song, and WWE didn't want to pay for it on their programming? I'm not at the point in my old WCW watching yet (just got past Hog Wild '96) to have had occasion to hear it, but wouldn't Sting's theme be in the old WCW programming on the network? It seems impossible that the WWE doesn't have the rights.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 16:45 |
|
|
Something I haven't really seen addressed anywhere yet, but would love to: Why was Sting there and why would he run out to make the save? Seriously. I am going off the assumption that most casual viewers would have little knowledge about Sting. Can anyone provide a non-cheesy storyline reason as to why Sting - a guy who has never had any association with WWF/WWE, nor any of the match participants (Big Show aside), nor any of the Authority members (on screen, not backstage negotiation poo poo) - would show up to interfere in the main event? I mean, he wasn't a current WWE roster member, so the Authority winning would have storyline meant gently caress-all to him. It's not like he's ever been mention as a Cena Super-Friend. What believable kayfabe reason is there for him to interrupt the match? Theories on how they will explain this one?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:45
|
|
