Toph Bei Fong posted:
I always thought Dillon did a pretty bad job making his head look penisy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2016 22:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:43 |
|
|
"This bitch has my balls in her mouth" is still probably his best line. Actually, as villainous breakdowns go, Herr Starr's is particularly funny, because he basically becomes so far gone and obsessed with petty vengeance that he completely abandons any high-minded ideal. Towards the end of the series He gets all the faceless millionaire Illuminati people who run the Grail behind the scenes in a room, where they talk nonsense and fluff and at the end they're demanding to know what this is all about as Starr is gassing them all to death, and he ends the conference call by saying "This is about my genitals. Rot in obscurity, holy men." While he ceases to become threatening fairly quickly, it's a wonderful slow degradation of a vile character.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I always thought Dillon did a pretty bad job
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
Dillon can draw pretty much anything in the world, except a different face.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 02:19
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:The Cyborg from the cartoons is a great, fun character, and if he doesn't fit tonally in today's DC comics, well, that pretty much tells you what's wrong with today's DC comics. I know I'm super-late to this discussion so I hate to dredge up an old topic, but I really think this is a big, if not the big problem with (current) Cyborg. DC put him on the Justice League but he has no personality on the Justice League, and hell, he barely interacts with anyone. There's a funny set of panels from... I think Justice League? Maybe Batman and Robin?... anyway there's a scene where  " hardly reacting to this poo poo. It's kind of like back when DC made Starfire a sexy murderer lady back at the start of the New 52: they are essentially failing to capitalize on a large potential demographic by making Cyborg a fun character closer to his cartoon counterpart that 20-somethings enjoyed/will remember. Yes there is tragedy in his origin and he can't be ha ha laughs all the time, but that's why he forms a surrogate family out of the other weird power-folk on the Teen Titans (or I guess the Justice League) in order to fit in. He's a man who is a robot! Have fun with that!But hey, DC doesn't make comics for kids, so I guess fun is just a crazy pipe dream. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 03:42
|
|
|
Cyborg would have been a great fit for the Justice League before the reboot, when the universe had been going for thirty years and there was a hip new teenage supergroup on the scene. That was the time for the original Teen Titans to grow up and move on like the New Mutants did back in the day. e: he'd still be a boring character but the justice league has never turned away boring characters
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 03:48
|
|
|
Well, what would make him interesting? I mean, he seems a prime character for pathos, with his origin, and he's capable at the very least. Is his personality just poorly defined in the New 52?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 06:26
|
|
|
Saying his personality is poorly defined implies he has a personality. He was retconned into being a founding member of the justice league out of the most half-assed move at diversity ever, because DC realized how bad of a look it would be if their main book was a group of white guys (and one white lady) saving the planet. He's a glorified checkbox superhero, okay we have a POC supe on the main team so we don't have a race problem anymore, and his whole character reflects how he's included more to avoid controversy then for any real reason. He just...exists there. They never do anything that could be even somewhat construed as racist or offensive with him, and they desperately avoid any possible characterization that could be viewed as charged, so he just sorta exists as a formless gray void off to the side, technically a founding justice league member and that's it. It's very obvious that editorial edict made him a founding justice league member, because cyborg as written in the new 52 mine as well not exist. Even beyond whether or not Johns was interested in the character (I'm gonna guess that he wasn't) , he comes off as a diversity quota superhero and, more than any other, had his storylines monitored heavily to remove any possible point of potential conflict. Designed by committee in its purest sense. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 06:50
|
|
|
I can still remember clearly the preview for Geoff Johns' run on Teen Titans. Cyborg was plugged into the tower. Made me interested to learn more about him. There wasn't much to learn besides the general body horror of being a cyborg. Really fun run, but the older Titans definitely weren't the focus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 07:08
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Saying his personality is poorly defined implies he has a personality. Yeah none of this racist poo poo is true. Johns is just really good at writing bland characters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 07:11
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah none of this racist poo poo is true. Your complete and total lack of reading comprehension is impressive, considering you interpreted " N52 Cyborg is DC totally half-assedly acknowledging that black people exist in the most penny-ante and spineless way possible" as "racist poo poo"
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 07:29
|
|
|
Mock all you want you posted that poo poo, not me
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 07:34
|
|
|
It's true though. Watch enough (Anglophone) television for example and you notice that whenever there's only like one regular black character, they just tend to be the most boring character in the regular cast. Often they're a straight-man or authority figure. Like how the Justice League cartoon initially had John Stewart as a joyless soldier. It's not an absolute rule, and exceptions obviously exist, but it gets kind of obvious that writers don't always want to make black or minority characters in general look too bad or flawed, so they settle on boring.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 09:14
|
|
|
So what's up with this thing I hear about Captain America being retconned to have been a secret Nazi all along? Who could possibly have thought that was a good idea? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 09:47
|
|
|
Johns had a character that's costume is literally a mask and a gun. He obviously doesn't give a poo poo about that. Though I don't think that line of reasoning stands up to any scrutiny anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 09:54
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:So what's up with this thing I hear about Captain America being retconned to have been a secret Nazi all along? Who could possibly have thought that was a good idea? People wanting to sell comic books.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 11:08
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:So what's up with this thing I hear about Captain America being retconned to have been a secret Nazi all along? Who could possibly have thought that was a good idea? He's not. He has been retconned into being a member of Hydra*. And we have not seen the full implications of anything yet. It looks like Time Travel and Reality Alteration are involved so nothing is as it seems. *= Hydra which if you go by different writers are anything for "SPECTRE like organization of just bad guys." to "Secret world running group like SHIELD, just with a different philosophical outlook." to "the club that Baron Strucker created when he said 'fine I'll make my own Nazi party. With Hookers and Blackjack.'" Now in the comic that they show up in, they are clearly supposed to be more on the Nazi type scale but we really don't know the full story yet as there has been mentions of different versions of Hydra with different philosophies. For all we know Steve might have been a part of the Hydra faction that believes in empowering disenfranchised minorities, improving the rights of women all over the world, transparent governance and only occasionally stopping to say your secret slogan to other members. Toxxupation posted:Saying his personality is poorly defined implies he has a personality. Okay this I completely disagree with and there is a lot of evidence to go against the notion that Cyborg was "pushed" into the JLA by Editorial. Firstly it's a matter of record that Flashpoint was written and started before the idea of the Nu52 was known. The story does not in any way read like a swan song for the Post Crisis DC Universe. It reads like an AoA type story which was meant to put all the toys back the way there were before hand but with a couple of changes/ hold overs from the original story. In Flashpoint Cyborg is a big player in the story. He's setup as the World's Number 1 hero, in a world without Superman and the rest. (Now personally, this was one of my favorite parts about Flashpoint, but that's a personal preference.) Cyborg's inclusion in Flashpoint doesn't read like some editorial inclusion. It just seems like Geoff John's wanted to go with the "if we removed the traditional people from our universe, who would be the big hero?" idea. And it makes sense why Geoff would use Cyborg, because I honestly think he likes him as a character. He got to use him when he wrote the Teen Titan's series. And even during his Flash run, he had Cyborg show up as a supporting character (and had a bizarre plot where he went from his Technis Imperative all gold/liquid metal look to his classic type look.) Cyborg being put in the JLA in the Nu52 just seems like it was what John wanted to do with Cyborg post Flashpoint, and when he found out that they were rebooting the universe he decided to use that as a springboard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 11:22
|
|
|
Cyborg is absolutely fine in the JLA. Pretty sure Barry's had less of a role to play in that series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 11:27
|
|
|
I still hold that Cyborg should have been put in the JL but about 12 years earlier.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 16:34
|
|
|
The opening to Brad Meltzer's JLA has Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman going through pictures of potential members. The title page has one of them saying "Cyborg, welcome to the Justice League of America!" and he never gets invited.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
Die Laughing posted:The opening to Brad Meltzer's JLA has Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman going through pictures of potential members. The title page has one of them saying "Cyborg, welcome to the Justice League of America!" and he never gets invited. As time goes on, I hate the run more and more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
Cyborg sucks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Saying his personality is poorly defined implies he has a personality. He does, writers just don't use it. Here, let me tell you his (or at least a version of his) personality based solely on half-forgotten memories of a cartoon I watched 13 years ago: Cyborg is a guy who likes hanging out with his friends, bad jokes, video games, and cars. He also knows a lot about technology, probably because he's half robot, and he's had to kind of learn about how his parts work. He has a lot of issues with being half-robot, but he hides those behind a facade of being a loud jokester. Like, I get that you have a hateboner for the guy and that's fine, but there is material to work with to make an actual character rather than just the Justice League's boom tube machine and black guy. Maybe Cyborg does suck now, but he doesn't have to. There are no bad characters, only bad writers. Except for Deathstroke. He's a bad character. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:He does, writers just don't use it. Here, let me tell you his (or at least a version of his) personality based solely on half-forgotten memories of a cartoon I watched 13 years ago: Cyborg is a guy who likes hanging out with his friends, bad jokes, video games, and cars. He also knows a lot about technology, probably because he's half robot, and he's had to kind of learn about how his parts work. He has a lot of issues with being half-robot, but he hides those behind a facade of being a loud jokester. Why the hell are you comparing an animated interpretation of the character to the New 52 version, when I was complaining about the New 52 version and addressing a question that specifically asked why the New 52 version sucked? He didn't ask "has Cyborg, the character, ever been good", he asked "why does New 52 Cyborg suck". I explained why he sucked, or at least why I think he sucks. It'd be like if he asked why New 52 Harley Quinn sucks and I went "because she's a crazy homicidal maniac who kills kids with video games and is completely reprehensible and they regressed her relationship with Joker from one of clear victim and abuser to this weird pseudo-true wuv poo poo, but she's still super popular so the comic constantly waffles between portraying as her irredeemable villain and a wacky crazy goof lady (who also happens to be a mass-murdering child killer)" and you responded "YEAH BUT BTAS HARLEY QUINN IS GOOD, QUIT WITH THE HATEBONER FOR HARLEY". It's not relevant to what the discussion was about at all. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jun 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 22:14
|
|
|
Sorry I guess I misinterpreted your post as a condemnation of the character across all mediums.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
In truth, I hate every comic book character and writer
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
There are plenty of bad characters, that old chestnut is not even remotely true.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 23:22
|
|
X-O posted:There are plenty of bad characters, that old chestnut is not even remotely true. I dunno, other than Kitty Pryde I can't think of a character that's inherently without value. People made amazing Carnage comics in the last decade.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2016 23:30
|
|
|
X-O posted:There are plenty of bad characters, that old chestnut is not even remotely true. Well the adage seems to take the idea that if you change everything about a character but it's name it's still the same character. So from that view point it's correct.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
X-O posted:There are plenty of bad characters, that old chestnut is not even remotely true. I don't really think Cyborg would fall under this though because he's not a character who has inherently problematic parts or is otherwise a bad concept. He's a dude who's part robot and wants to stop bad peoples, that should be pretty straightforward. He's just a dude nobody really bothered developing in New 52 but he's around a whole bunch anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:It's not relevant to what the discussion was about at all. This is how a lot of people argue on the internet. Gloss over the text, notice a few key words and post angry word vomit in response.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
Travis343 posted:In truth, I hate every comic book character and writer That's fair, I hate all paper based mediums. The only reason I'm here is to know the enemy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I dunno, other than Kitty Pryde I can't think of a character that's inherently without value. People made amazing Carnage comics in the last decade.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 01:34
|
|
Ghostlight posted:Hal Jordan. What! He's comedy gold.   
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
Heathen posted:This is how a lot of people argue on the internet. Gloss over the text, notice a few key words and post angry word vomit in response. I sympathize. It's real hard to read a whole Toxx post.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
I could really live the entire rest of my life without seeing Glowy Eye Frowny Face Superman again. Like at this point that is his natural, resting state
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:There are no bad characters, only bad writers. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Travis343 posted:I could really live the entire rest of my life without seeing Glowy Eye Frowny Face Superman again. Like at this point that is his natural, resting state
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
That's not a bad character, that's a character so boring I forget he exists regularly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:43 |
|
|
Yah that's my gf so what
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2016 03:15
|
|
