Grimm S4: "We're digging up the past, we may as well dig up your mother."

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Grimm S4: "We're digging up the past, we may as well dig up your mother."

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Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

shades of eternity posted:

This last episode cemented something I didn't expect: I really like Juliette.
She was really annoying for the first few years, but this season has shown her change.

This was perhaps the first episode of the series that didn't leave me hoping Juliet would be written out and/or killed off.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2014 16:52

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:39

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

When Trouble first showed up, I wasn't expecting to like her. I assumed it was going to be the classic cliche of the insane, evil character who shows the hero how he himself could have turned out if he had made the wrong choices and fell to the dark side. I thought she'd be all broody and dark, refuse to be a team player, snap at anyone's attempts to help her or befriend her. I've seen that character so many times before, and I'm so tired of that character.

And that's just what she was... for maybe one episode. Then instead, she started to grow in a refreshingly realistic way, and sidestepped most of the dark, broody angst I had been expecting and dreading. She's great.

And yeah, her action scenes look great. They actually cast someone who could sell a fight scene, and it makes all the difference.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2014 00:58

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

hollylolly posted:

It's just due to her having taken self defense and having a concealed carry permit.
Oh, and being sensible and not hysterical.

Yeah, she hasn't really leveled-up to "Badass" so much as simply "Competent."
And in a surprisingly realistic way, that was enough to make all the difference.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2014 19:15

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Wu got put under a very nasty Hexenbeist curse that was meant for Hank, and they let him just think he had a severe mental problem, even after using alchemy to fix him. That's where he should have been let in on the secret, because it was personally a very real part of his life at that point. Team Grimm chose to let Wu stay in the psych ward after meeting the Aswang, rather than letting him on the secret. That was just cruel, and pointlessly so. Everything since then has just piled the awfulness on top of that.

When Wu finally realizes just how much of his life and mental health are completely hosed up entirely due to Nick and Hank, most of which was by choice, he's going to loving murder them. Even a sane person would probably want Nick and Hank to pay for all of that, and Wu hasn't been one of those for a while now.

misguided rage posted:

they could presumably cure her right away with Grimm blood

Juliet saw herself woge in the mirror, which means she can (presumably) see Wesen now in the same way that Nick or any other Wesen can. That alone is a drat useful ability to have, especially in Portland. As long as she doesn't have some kind of out-of-control power (admittedly, she probably will), the only real drawback is that it's kinda freaky. This could be a good thing for Juliet.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 16, 2014

# ¿ Dec 16, 2014 00:13

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Biomute posted:

Wu is an incredibly likable character, but I'd honestly love to see him become an honest to god villain if it was handled well. It would be cool if he rationally made a big stink, perhaps getting the feds and their weird connections involved, and also perhaps realizing Renaurd is keeping a lid on things. He could go vigilante on Nick and Griffin.

Since at least the Aswang incident, I've been sort of expecting Victor (or some other Royal) to recruit Wu by just offering to tell him the truth. Someone else being honest with him when his own friends do nothing but lie, and being shown that it's an even bigger lie than he could have imagined, that could easily be all it takes to get Wu to turn against Nick and his pals.

Now that Nick & Hank have admitted that there is a secret they've been keeping from him, I'm not sure if that makes this scenario less likely or more likely. He's going to be angry, confused, vulnerable, and more than a bit unstable. Any cult leader can tell you that's the ideal state of mind to find a potential recruit in.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2014 00:48

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

johntfs posted:

That's actually a pretty astute point. From their looks to their abilities, nothing about hexenbeists radiates sunshine and puppies. How will Juliette deal with being a "wicked" witch? How will everyone else deal with her being a wicked witch?

I kind of expect Nick to be surprised for like 5 minutes, then just be pretty much ok with it and accept the new (and improved?) Juliet. He's learned to adapt to a lot over the past couple years, he's part zombie now, got super hearing from some weird worms, he sees weird creatures everywhere now and doesn't even flinch, has found himself slowly-but-surely chipping away at two millenia of Grimm vs. wesen animosity, and his best friend is the Big Bad Wolf. Nick is nothing if not adaptable.

Juliet will probably not take it well at all. If it had been something cute and relatively harmless like a Fuchsbau, she would probably adjust to it fairly well. A Hexenbiest though... everybody is freaked out by Hexenbiests. That's going to be a lot tougher. I sort of expect her wesen friends to be a little afraid of her at first, out of pure reflex, and that's going to further screw with her emotions for a while.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2014 06:04

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Miss Nomer posted:

I'm really happy that we saw a reappearance of zombie Grimm. I thought the writers had forgotten about it.

Nick went grey for a moment when his Grimm powers were coming back to him at the junkyard earlier in the season, so they want us to remember it's still a thing. At the same time, his zombie mode was a hugely important and dangerous thing when it started happening, but they sort of just stopped worrying about it after a couple episodes instead of giving it any kind of resolution. That always seemed weird to me.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 21:30

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

ETB posted:

Really just remove Adalind and keep Trubel, and we'll be set for life.

Or at least give Adalind something interesting and proactive to DO. She was pretty good in the first season, but since then she's spent 95% of the show just sort of wandering around on a B-story that never really pays off.

Months of work in getting her Hexenbiest powers (whatever those are) back... or they could have just said "Oh, turns out that de-powering thing was only temporary" and moved onto something more interesting much sooner.

Her long, complicated pregnancy that took most of a season before our protagonist(s) got involved for an episode or two. Baby seemed like an important and maybe interesting thing what the main characters will have to deal wi- nope, Nick's Mom takes baby with her and leaves the show again.

That entire pregnancy, so far, has only been an excuse to have Adalind spend another season just looking for her baby and being played with by the Royals like a weak and stupid pawn instead of an actual villain herself.

I love this show, but it has a serious problem with opening plot threads and then never having them pay off, and Adalind seems to have no purpose now but to generate more of those unsatisfying threads.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 19:26

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Jedit posted:

You can make all kinds of criticisms of Adelind's plot arc, but when Grimm appears to cover one year per season (based on how many times Monroe puts his decorations out), complaining that a nine-month pregnancy takes up most of a twelve-month season is a bit much.

The complaint wasn't that she was pregnant for a realistic amount of time, it's that "Get powers back" and "Have baby" were the only things her subplot did for a whole season. She wasn't really doing anything, so much as she was just being led around by a few factions as their pawn. Then the pay-off for all of that invested time was a two-part episode, then most of another season just being a pawn again as she's shuffled around with the baby as bait. A baby that has not actually been in the show this season.

It just feels like the amount of time spent on Adalind's subplot has had a poor return on the investment.

Also... she was getting horrible and powerful witch magic back by way of various disturbing dark rituals. If the writers wanted that pregnancy to take a single month from start to finish, it would have been the easiest thing in the world to hand-wave away.

"Oh yeah, this whole infusion of dark magic that you've been literally rubbing onto your pregnant belly every night? That's gonna speed things along. Witch stuff, you know how it is."

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

That's not exactly the point, the point is that since mid-season 2, Adalind has essentially had her own story arc that has remained basically separate from the rest of the cast, only intersecting for a handful of minutes per season. It's taking away screentime for our main characters and we're not getting a lot of interesting stuff from the Adalind storylines.

Right. Adalind's stuff feels pointless because it's barely relevant to the main characters. That can be ok in short bursts, but Adalind's been pretty much off in her own separate show for several seasons now, with the rare crossover or name-drop. Except the Adalind show is eating up time that should belong to the "Nick & Trubel Head-Choppin' Hour" show.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2015 01:18

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Accretionist posted:

I liked the no nonsense telekinesis. The dude starts to conk out because she's poking at his brain and then *pew* the back of his skull goes flying. It was like gross slapstick.

That's going to make for a very tricky coroner's report if the Police were handling the aftermath as would be expected. "Hmm, we have a massive exit wound with no entry wound... that's odd."

Of course, the whole story is going to have a lot of holes in it if anyone starts actually investigating. Why were a cop's wife and the kidnap victim's wife brought into the scene? Why was a whole cult taken on by three cops and the Captain, with no further police backup?

Bored posted:

Edit. Lol I wanna know what Sean did offscreen.

I really don't, it would ruin the magic. Somehow the fact that we only got to see Hank's reaction made that scene way more chilling and brutal and funny than anything they would (or could) have actually shown us onscreen.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Her going to see Reynard at the end of the episode was also a logical move - it was the potion that Reynard's mother gave her that did this, so she would probably know best what the hell went wrong with it.

Telling Nick should have been her first move, period. So she's already hosed that up.

After that though, going to Renard is by far the smartest thing to do. He's the one Hexen/Zauberbiest in the entire world that they actually trust. Even if he doesn't know anything about the how and why of Juliet becoming a Hexenbiest, he's going to be the best person to help her understand what being one means, which could be the difference between learning to control and accept this change or going murder-witch head-pop psycho and killing everyone. That's in addition to the fact that he's their point-of-contact for Elizabeth (his Mom), who is obviously the most likely person to know what to do about this situation.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jan 24, 2015

# ¿ Jan 24, 2015 09:07

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Aces High posted:

Nick and Hank are leaving to make sure that nothing undesirable happens to Monroe and Rosalee on their honeymoon so that's another week that Juliette will have to deal with this Hexenbiest thing. Sure she could tell Nick as he's about to leave...

Oh, are Nick and Hank actually going along on the trip? I had assumed that their completely deadpan "You won't even know we're there" line was them making a rather funny joke. Hadn't occurred to me that they were serious.

I guess that does make Juliet's decision to tell Renard first more of a practical matter instead of her just being pointlessly untrusting of Nick. It's at least consistent with her attitude of the past two episodes, where she put off her problem to take car of Monroe & Rosalie's problem first.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jan 24, 2015

# ¿ Jan 24, 2015 16:51

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

hollylolly posted:

Why doesn't she ask anyone how Adalind lost her powers in the first place and why doesn't she just do that? They better explain that.

She somehow doesn't realize yet that the secret to 80% of all Hexenbiest magic is getting Nick to squirt some fluids into you. I'm waiting for the next Hexenbiest spell.

Next week, on an all new Grimm...
"Juliet! Someone stole my pee!"
Cut to Adalind smiling, sipping from a mason jar filled with yellow fluid.

Juliet has to know how Adalind lost her powers, right? She loving hates Adalind, and knows Nick took her powers away, there's just no way in hell she never asked how. She also knows that Adalind seemed to be a perfectly healthy, normal human afterward, so Juliet doesn't even have reason to be scared that the cure is going to harm/kill her. If she really wanted to be un-Wessen'd the question shouldn't have been "Oh poo poo, what do I do" it should have been "Hey, Nick, I need a favor."

Hell, she could just wait for a night when Nick comes home from a fight, help to tend to his usual cuts & scrapes, and lick her fingers clean afterward. Done.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Feb 2, 2015

# ¿ Feb 2, 2015 03:34

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

pasaluki posted:

Juliet emerges from the shadows with a meat tenderizer in one hand and a frying pan in the other.

It'll be a .50 caliber revolver with a laser sight and a cast-iron frying pan mounted on it like a bayonet.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2015 06:41

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

pasaluki posted:

My whole thing is if Nick not telling Juliette about the wesen is a huge breach of trust, then what is this?

The situations are pretty different too. When Nick learned about Grimms and Wessen, it was from his Aunt/surrogate Mother who had hidden it from him his whole life. Not only did she tell him flat-out that letting ANYONE in on his secret would probably get them killed, she clearly had believed that strongly enough to keep it up even while raising a child. Then Nick meets Monroe, and it's made double-clear that telling ANYONE about Wessen is bad for everyone, and will probably get anyone involved killed or institutionalized.

So he didn't tell Juliet because he didn't want her dead, and had been told by his most trustworthy sources on the matter that secrecy was the only way to keep her safe.

Juliet, on the other hand, is just hiding it so far because she's scared Nick will chop her head off? Wow, that's a definite lack of faith in her partner. Or she just doesn't want him to know she's a Wessen now, despite the fact that half of their closest friends already are. Even Nick's assumed prejudice against Hexenbiests doesn't hold up, since one of his most trusted allies is one (well, the male version, close enough) and another (Renard's Mom) came to their rescue to counteract Adalind's rapey fuckmagic.

Short version, Nick had very good reason to think that hiding the truth was safer for everyone at first, while Juliet should have every reason to think that NOT hiding her condition is the best thing to do. But she's keeping it secret from Nick because... their relationship has serious communication problems.

pentyne posted:

Given what we've seen other hexenbiest do its shocking that Adalind and her mother were so insanely weak compared to the rest of them.

That phone number trick that Henrietta does is seriously impressive. It makes anything Adalind has ever done look clumsy and amateur.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2015 18:23

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

There Bias Two posted:

In the scene with Nick where she's sitting on the couch staring at the body, you can really notice a subtle hint of satisfaction on her face.

There sure are a lot of weird, suspicious deaths happening at the Burkhardt house. They've had to fight off random wessen a few times there, can't remember how many of them were killed. Then we had an FBI agent, beheaded on the staircase. Police captain shot (though he recovered) on the doorstep. Now while the police are hunting for a murderer who uses a poisoned dagger, there's a corpse in Nick's living room that was clearly killed by the same weapon. A weapon that won't be found, which complicates a self-defense excuse.

I know Renard is a pro at cover-ups, but I'm surprised he has time for anything else in his day at this point. To anyone not in-the-loop, it must look like Nick lives in the worst neighborhood ever.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2015 16:22

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

johntfs posted:

Claire Coffee is a regular on show, so I doubt that Juliette will kill her. I figure that instead Juliette will beat Adalind like a dirty rug and leave her comatose, hospitalized, in a wheelchair or otherwise unable to wear/do anything that shows Claire's pregnancy.

Well, I'm not entirely clear on how the timeline of the show is progressing, but has it been that long since Nick got de-powered by Adalind's rapewizardry?

Perhaps there's a way to work Claire's pregnancy into the show...

Hell, if Nick times it right, he could end up with two women carrying his half-Grimm/half-Hexenbiest babies at the same time. That's assuming Juliet is willing to have sex with him outside of the occasions when it's required for casting or breaking spells.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 10, 2015

# ¿ Feb 10, 2015 23:22

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

I keep hoping Juliet's big reveal to Nick goes something like this:

:psyboom:

Nick... I've got something to tell you. And show you.
:chord:

Yeah, of course. What's up?
:psyboom:

Well... don't freak out, but... *woges into her Hexenbiest face*
:chord:

Oh, that. I was wondering when you were going to tell me. Yeah, I've watched you do it at least a dozen times already, when you thought I was looking the other way. I am a Grimm, y'know. It's kinda my thing, I see stuff. Also, like twenty minutes ago you were stirring your coffee by just staring at it really hard. Anyway, want to go out for dinner, or do we have something in the fridge to cook?

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Feb 13, 2015

# ¿ Feb 13, 2015 21:15

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Adalind needs to take remedial hexenbeist training or get her license to woge revoked or something.

If you remember, her license to woge was revoked, because she was stupid enough to bite a Grimm, knowing Grimm blood is Hexenbiest poison... Or if she didn't know that, then for being dumb enough to not know that. She spent a year or so just trying to get her Hexenbiest learner's permit again.

Juliet may have a freakish level of power compared to normal Hexenbiests, but oddly she seems to already have much more skill with the powers after a couple weeks than Adalind has ever shown. That vase catch was a drat fine opening move.

Adalind is just terrible at everything she does... And FINALLY that trait has paid off for the audience. That was great.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Feb 14, 2015

# ¿ Feb 14, 2015 07:37

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Bored posted:

she was still using her kitchen as her weapons vault.

Speaking of weapons vaults, I was amused to see the Super-Soaker getting a place of honor in Nick's weapons cabinet.

Also, that trailer is a goddamn TARDIS. It's got to be at least three times bigger on the inside than on the outside. I half expect him to open a panel in the trailer floor that to reveal a long, winding staircase down to a basement, with none of the characters even thinking that's odd.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2015 08:14

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Adalind's incompetence is a thing of legend. Everything she does either fails completely, backfires spectacularly, or is negated relatively quickly.

Mission: Kill Aunt Marie - Technically may be her only success... If sending two assassins to kill a woman who is already nearly dead from cancer, getting both assassins killed, and then letting the woman succumb to her illness counts as success. Not one I'd put on my Hexenbiest r�sum�.
Mission: Don't get killed by bee-people - Hank saved her rear end. A regular dude who doesn't even know about Wessen had to protect a powerful Hexenbiest from her enemies.
Mission: Dominate Hank - This scheme to control Hank with magic blood cookies sort of worked at first, but he ends up in a coma instead. That ended when she was dumb enough to bite a Grimm, not only breaking her spell, but losing all of her powers. Also, she made Wu eat his couch.
Mission: Make Juliet forget Nick - Yeah, it worked for a while, but then Juliet got over it. Sort of a success, but as far as curses go, it had a pretty lovely return on the investment.
Mission: Get Hexenbiest Powers Back - She spent a full season doing basically whatever anyone told her to do, while various Wessen tried to give her her powers back so she would be a more useful pawn. She seemed weirdly disgusted by all of the dark rituals involved, when that's kinda supposed to be her thing?
Mission: Sell her baby to the royals - Nope.
Mission: Keep her baby - Nope.
Mission: Find her baby - She ends up having to ask the Grimm and his friends for help, not figuring out for ages that half of the characters on the show worked to hide the baby from her. She's got magic again AND Hexenbiest are supposedly masters at deception, yet she's still totally hopeless here. Still doesn't find the drat baby.
Mission: Eliminate the Grimm - She makes a potion to pretend to be Juliet, so she can jump Nick's bones and take his power. Ok, that part works, but they un-do it in a few weeks, which is again a poor return on all that work.
... Also, it appears from next week's preview that she's pregnant again, and Nick is the only potential father we've seen. Her great scheme didn't consider birth control? So I guess Adalind is both incompetent as a Hexenbiest and as a woman.
... Also, as a result of her curse being undone, Juliet is now a better Hexenbiest than Adalind. Seriously, this was in incredible failure.
... However, "trick Nick into sex" part worked flawlessly. So while she's a failure at everything else, she's a top-notch rapist... unless she actually is carrying Nick's baby, in which case she's even lovely at rape. Holy poo poo.
Mission: Kill Juliet - Such a simple plan, open door, kill Juliet. She managed a triple failure here. She failed as a Hexenbiest, because she was outclassed by a newbie. She failed at planning, because there was every possibility Juliet could have answered the door with her pistol in-hand. She failed at intel, because she walked into the Grimm's house, somehow still unaware that Nick had gotten his Grimm powers back.

If her next scheme is to steal Nick's car and sell it on Craigslist, I fully expect that by the end of the episode the car will be on fire upside-down in a ravine. Meanwhile, Nick will have somehow gotten two much nicer cars out of the deal, though all of his furniture will have been smashed again. He's got Ikea on speed-dial by now, I'm sure. Also, three episodes later, Adalind will be revealed to be pregnant with the car's baby.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

It's been FOUR episodes since she became a Hexenbiest and she's now super-powered and super-competent. It's odd because the show had a main-cast Hexenbiest who was born one, and had to get her powers back through a long complicated ritual, and was trounced by basically a newborn. Even given Adalind's long history of incompetence, that's still hard to swallow.

I do completely agree that it's too convenient that Juliet has become so competent with her powers so quickly. Still, if the options for the season were that, or dragging this plotline out slooowly just so that it makes more sense, I consider this to be the preferable option by far. Plus, Adalind wasn't expecting a fight, much less another Hexenbiest, so Juliet gets at least some advantage on pure shock-factor.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Feb 14, 2015

# ¿ Feb 14, 2015 17:48

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

ETB posted:

Juliette also gained a shitton of experience points from killing the manticore hitman.

Yeah, that makes sense. Juliet dual-classed into a Veterinarian / Hexenbiest.

After that she participated in a huge raid event, visited a trainer, then solo'd a manticore assassin. Juliet is powerleveling.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2015 18:32

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

"The last, I think, seven episodes... things change in Nick�s life that�ll never be the same. I�d say the events that take place in Nick�s life, in probably the last five episodes, are as momentous as him finding out that he�s a Grimm."

If I had to bet, I'd put half of my chips on "Nick has a kid on the way" and half on "Nick has a sibling he never knew about," with maybe one chip tossed onto "Season finale cliffhanger involves Nick freaking the gently caress out and stabbing a dozen humans at a Portland Furry convention."

"Hey Monroe, what is Yiffing? I can't find it in any of the journals an-"
"We don't talk about that."
"But it's for a case and I re-"
"WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT!"

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 18, 2015

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 23:25

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

ashez2ashes posted:

I'm not terribly excited about another pregnancy storyline, with the exact same character even.

Oh yeah, I had actually completely forgotten that the show just launched into one of those again. I was thinking that Juliet was going to be grimmpregnated with an even more freakish hybrid baby than the last one, but there's already another case of that going on, and they must know we don't want to double-up on that already worn-out plot... right?

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 22:45

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

So in season 2, Nick had to move out of the house because Juliet didn't know who he was. Now she's looking for a new place to live because of yet more relationship problems with Nick...

Who owns that house?

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 07:32

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

My Cousin just had a baby shower for his soon-to-arrive first kid.
It's going to be a girl...
And he watches Grimm...

Yep. He's naming his Daughter "Adalind."

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 23:23

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

My problem IS really a combination of a bunch of things.
1. Having created Hexenbiests be more powerful is counter-intuitive to what you would expect...

2. ...there's the contradiction with Juliette getting transformed not only incredibly easily and simply, but completely by accident.

3. ...So Nick getting his powers back seems to indicate that she did know what she was doing, but the screwup with Juliette seems to indicate that she did not - another contradiction.

I completely agree with point #1. If created Hexenbiests are so much stronger than natural ones, that makes the natural ones seem a lot less special. Also, if making humans into Hexenbiests gets you super-witches, you'd think someone would be exploiting that already.

Points 2 and 3 are things I'm ok with, but only in Adalind's special case. Think of it like drug interactions. If you don't tell your doctor that you're on relatively safe drug A, and he prescribes you relatively safe drug B, the two may clash and do all sorts of horrible, unpredictable things.

Juliet used a spell to copy a Hexenbiest who had already used the same spell to copy her. That's alone is kind of weird, and could plausibly explain some abnormal magical connection between them. But Adalind isn't a normal Hexenbiest, she's the lamest one, and had thus turned herself into a perfectly ordinary human by being dumb.

Then Adalind spent a year going through a series of forbidden and powerful rituals meant to force Hexenbiest powers back into someone who didn't have them. (for all we know that WAS the standard ritual to turn a vanilla human into a Hexenbiest) So Juliet didn't just copy a regular Wessen, she copied one whose body has been intentionally infused with horrible magic that was specifically intended to cram a shitload of Hexenbiest mojo into an ordinary human being.

It's not so much that Elizabeth should have known this would happen, but more likely nobody would have really known. The odds of this particular sequence of magical treatments ever happening before means it's probably going to involve a lot of guessing.

Also, as a proud Hexenbiest herself, would Elizabeth have considered this possible outcome a negative side-effect, or a wonderful bonus? If she did know this might happen, she may have chosen not to mention the possibility just to avoid getting Juliet's hopes up. If true, she'd have a pretty strong point. So far, the only negative for Juliet has been her own emotional issues, but the powers themselves have saved her life at least three times already.

As a bonus, I imagine that the only reason Juliet is now the more powerful of the two is simply because she didn't have the inherent drag-factor of Adalind's exceptional lameness holding her powers back.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Mar 28, 2015

# ¿ Mar 28, 2015 01:45

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Argh I REALLY want the next thread title to be Grimm Season 4: "I can't have another baby! I don't even know where the first one is!", but it's too long!

Grimm Season 4: "Curses, Grimmpregnated again!"

# ¿ Mar 28, 2015 02:17

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Xealot posted:

Hey, they're not wrong. "A woman AND a man!?! That's insane!" It's Portland. There's no way Nick & friends wouldn't be aware of people who are trans.

"People who are trans" is a pretty big difference from "Worm-monster who can transform from woman to man at will." Yeah, Nick and friends probably have plenty of experience with folks who are somewhere on the spectrum of gender other than one of the two standard settings, but it's still pretty reasonable to be shocked at meeting a man and a woman LITERALLY living in the same body that shapeshifts back and forth whenever they want.

Tumblr just never misses any excuse to get angry about something.

Insanity Prawn posted:

At least Munroe kinda called out how hosed up it was.

Yeah, and nobody in the room disagreed. But nobody had a better idea, and the only real alternatives were "Ignore them and let the murderers continue conning" or "Just kill 'em." A cop can't arrest the lady with no criminal record, can't find the guy to arrest if he's hiding inside the lady. Neither of them was an innocent, she did straight-up murder a dude to get this episode started. Considering how any past Grimms would have handled this situation, Nick still only killed half as many Wessen. (if it's even permanent)

JD Bucks 7 posted:

Oh, and Adalind. Jesus. "I will just gently caress someone else" yea. That is all your character can do.

Yeah, that character is a loving trainwreck.

Hell, her intensely pathetic "Oh, I'll gently caress a prince!" scheme may have even been upgraded to "I'll gently caress the King!" mere seconds after formulating it, and entirely by pure dumb luck.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Mar 29, 2015

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 03:01

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Kruller posted:

Juliette has started down the annoying path again. I hope they write at as her just being extremely freaked out, because when she showed Nick what she is now and he recoiled, she came across as more upset he wasn't immediately okay with it, rather than possibly understanding that his pretty hot girlfriend just turned into a repulsive corpse-thing right in front of him with no warning. I'm pretty sure anyone would react poorly to that.

When Juliet saw herself in Hexenface for the first time, she started screaming in terror. But her boyfriend had better be instantly and totally comfortable with it on first sight or he's an rear end in a top hat. It's not like he's got any reason to be especially scared of the idea of a Hexenbiest taking Juliet's form to try to harm them... y'know, aside from when that happened recently.

Imagine if your significant other were to suddenly pop their eye out during dinner, then explain that they lost the real eye in an accident a month ago and went through a lot of effort to hide that fact from you because they didn't trust you. How would you react at first? Now replace "glass eye" with "The face of my enemy that has been haunting my nightmares and trying to destroy me and all that I love."

I'm just saying, their relationship has always had some serious-rear end communication problems.

Tahirovic posted:

I am still not happy with the "I'll run away from Nick and go to the guy I had a magic crush on that almost ruined my relationship" soap plot.

Renard was the logical choice of someone to ask for help, because of all the people she can trust, he's the one with the most Hexenbiest experience. It's the initial running away from Nick part that is the real issue. She just doesn't actually trust Nick, and that is a plot-point this show has already run into the ground, maybe even more than Adalind's baby problems.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 30, 2015

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 15:30

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

So, I tried to think of what evil schemes Adalind has hatched during the course of the series. I decided to omit any "scheme" that was actually just "Show up at a place and attack someone" because those hardly count, and never work anyway. The entire quest to get her powers back shouldn't count either, since it wasn't any real plan on her part, just several factions pushing her around like a pawn.

gently caress Hank as part of a plan to turn him against Nick.
Poison Juliet.
gently caress Renard to intentionally get knocked up.
gently caress Nick for revenge.
gently caress The Prince/King to trick him into thinking he's her baby-daddy.

So of five evil schemes, four were basically "gently caress a dude." Also, she went from loving one man to intentionally get pregnant, and then in her very next scheme hosed a man and was completely shocked that she had gotten pregnant from it.

Party Plane Jones posted:

She didn't gently caress Renard (or his half brother) to get knocked up though, it sorta just fell into place once she got depowered. You give her too much credit.

EDIT:

I always just assumed getting pregnant by Renard was her intention, considering how pleased she seemed when her pregnancy test came up positive afterward. You could definitely be right, I was making that assumption a few seasons back, when Adalind having an intelligent plan still seemed plausible. That scheme was a failure on every possible level anyway, so either version of the events still leaves her looking like an idiot.

Either way, she still fails as just a regular ol' sexually active woman for apparently not considering that her "I'll bone the Grimm" scheme should probably include some form of contraception.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Apr 1, 2015

# ¿ Mar 31, 2015 17:29

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

pentyne posted:

With how fast and loose the writers play with any Wessen rules they originally made there's no guarantee.

Yeah, I remember Nick having a chat with Monroe near the show's beginning about wanting to tell Juliet about Grimms and Wessen, and hoping he could help. Monroe explained that there was no way a regular human would be able to see his Woge-face, no matter what he did. Because of that, he absolutely could not show her, and they decided to keep her in the dark because without proof Nick would just sound crazy.

... and now regular humans seeing a Woge'd Wessen happens in almost every episode at some point. Monroe himself specifically did show his Woge-face to both Hank and Wu to bring them in on the secret.

spookygonk posted:

Are Hexenbeast Wesen/Wessen though?

That's a good question, even if any possible answer is going to have to conflict with at least some of the previously established facts.

Unless I'm forgetting someone, Hexenbiests are the only creatures on the show who explicitly use magic. All of the Wessen/Grimm superpowers tend to get some kind of vaguely plausible explanation that makes them sound like really bizarre biology, but not magic. They're spitting chemicals that ignite on contact with air for breathing fire, secrete freaky pheromones or toxins, have extra sets of specialized light receptors in the eyes, etc. However questionable the science may be, they've at least tried to establish that Wessen aren't really supernatural, and that they generally have abilities similar to some animal in real life. (oh hey, this guy secretes toxin like a blowfish!)

Hexenbiests though, they cast magic spells and throw poo poo with their mind, which doesn't really fit the pattern. Aside from Hexenbiests, the only straight-up magical thing that I can remember in the show were Were-Hitler's evil mind-control cufflinks of doom.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Apr 6, 2015

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 06:08

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Astrofig posted:

Anyone else feel like they might be about to kill Juliette off? Part of me hopes it'll be Adalind, though.

It'll be Monroe, and they'll add two more Adalinds to the cast for next season.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 10, 2015

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 22:36

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

TMMadman posted:

They will kill Juliette off but make Adalind turn into Juliette permanently in order to hide her and Nicks baby from falling into the hands of the Royals.

I'm kind of worried that this doesn't sound nearly as improbable as it really should.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 23:37

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Merlinicus posted:

OK, in fairness Renard was beating the poo poo out of the other guy until he had a "bullets to the chest" relapse, at which point he was struggling to stand up anyways (so the other guy ended up winning).

True, but this was after that, Kenneth was punched so hard that he bounced off of a solid wall about twenty feet away and fell maybe another ten feet to the hard floor. That should have put a human into the hospital. If they're the toughest motherfucker around, maybe they'd just be hurt very badly and had the wind knocked out of them for a while. This guy just stood right up immediately as if nothing had happened, T-1000 Terminator style.

If that's not supposed to be an incredibly obvious clue that this guy is much more than just a regular human, somebody hosed up.

XboxPants posted:

the premise for the entire episode is that the reason the wesen got cold and went out and killed people is because their car broke down so they didn't have heat anymore. Wait, what the gently caress?

Nothing made sense. Nothing. Not a drat thing.

Applewhite posted:

I dunno if she has anyone but herself to blame for the terrible delivery, though.

It almost felt like they told her to do a silly ad-lib for a gag reel, just for fun, but then someone decided to use that clip anyway. Or that maybe she did as a goof after the scene was supposed to be done, just to make the people on set laugh, but then someone in editing thought it was a good thing to keep.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 13, 2015

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 22:05

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Applewhite posted:

The "treasure" protected by the keys may therefore be the breeding plan they need to get themselves back on track.

At the end of the quest, they'll unlock the treasure and it'll just be a faded, hand-written note that says "Try knocking up someone who isn't your first cousin, idiots." The Princes will pretend that they see the wisdom in this revelation, and start banging only their own sisters from then on.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 17:26

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Jedit posted:

Adelind is a bad character because for the last two years she has literally served no purpose beyond being a life support machine for a vagina. That doesn't mean she can't be improved on by giving her something to do other than gently caress and face the consequences.

In season 1 and into season 2, Adalind seemed pretty great. She was a schemer, was menacing, didn't seem overtly stupid yet, and she seemed to actually have poo poo to do. (If biting Nick was her only stupid move, it would have been forgivable) Juliette started out kind of annoying and pointless, because the only thing she was ever used for in the plot was really drawn-out and tedious relationship drama with Nick. By the end of season 1, I was hoping for more Adalind and hoped Juliette would be killed off.

By late last season, Juliette was finally starting to become interesting, while Adalind had become a complete dumpster-fire of a character and I hoped she'd be going away.

And now I just wish they'd kill each other off forever, please. I can't blame either actress, they've both done good stuff when actually given something to work with... but that almost never happens. At this point I can't imagine how good of a storyline it would take to redeem either one. The show only has four regular(ish) female characters, two of them are awful and the third was great... and disappeared after only a half season. At least Rosalie's pretty solid, aside from the "friggin' Hexenbeiest" line last episode. (NOTHING was good in that episode, so it would feel unfair to hold that one thing against her)

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 15, 2015

# ¿ Apr 15, 2015 18:05

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Astrofig posted:

An....underwater panther. I look forward to seeing this be explained straight-faced.

The "Underwater Panther" is an actual legend from Native tribes around the Great Lakes area, so at least that's got some basis in something. They're known for being assholes and causing storms, mostly... not sure about possession.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2015 00:46

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

As of this last episode, I think things have just gotten a bit better now that everyone in-universe has completely given up on the idea that Adalind is a genuine villain, rather than a helpless idiot who just randomly causes trouble in the brief moments between being dominated by pretty much anyone she meets aside from Team Grimm. Now that the show's writers have finally caught up to where the viewers have been for two seasons or so, maybe things can finally move forward.

What I don't understand was Nick and Adalind's reactions to the pregnancy in this episode. Nick knows that he hosed Adalind when she was disguised as Juliet. His first reaction when Adalind says the baby is his is to just brush it off and say it's not possible...

Adalind herself says she had no idea that her plan to have sexual intercourse with Nick might end up with her becoming pregnant...

Does nobody in the Grimm universe understand where babies come from?

They can't even use the excuse that Nick or Adalind believes such a cross-breeding is impossible, because the third person in that room is Captain Renard, himself the product of exactly such a human & hexenbiest coupling. Seriously, Portland schools must have the worst sex education classes ever.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 27, 2015

# ¿ Apr 27, 2015 17:15

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

I'm really confused.

Adalind spent a year doing every horrible thing she was told, just to get her Hexenbiest powers back, because they were that important to her. Now, when a rival Hexenbiest is trying to kill her and those powers are should be more important than ever just for self-defense... she's totally onboard with chugging a potion to make them go away again, just to see if the potion works?

What? No, seriously, what? Did I completely miss something?

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 05:50 on May 2, 2015

# ¿ May 2, 2015 05:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:39

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

Bored posted:

This is a pretty good point, since I'm pretty sure Adelind implied that it's not permanent. But it does lock the powers for a while.

The potion took a lot of Hexenbiest parts to make, they can't brew another batch without another full body to work with. Adalind pointed out how hard those are to find, so brewing a new batch every few weeks/months won't be an option, making this a one-time thing. If it is only a temporary suppressant, and Adalind knows that, it makes much more reasonable that she would be willing to almost casually dose herself with it like she did.

But if it is temporary, ANYONE who knows that fact is going to realize that the only actual use this potion has would be to weaken Juliet enough so that she can be easily killed. Otherwise the best case scenario is that they get "good" Juliet back for a short time, just long enough for her to feel like poo poo for doing terrible things, then when it wears off she'll snap back to being an even angrier version of herself because they made her feel like poo poo.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 3, 2015

# ¿ May 3, 2015 21:56

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Grimm S4: "We're digging up the past, we may as well dig up your mother."

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