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TL posted:My big concern now is that WWE has no idea how to book a top face anymore. Sheamus is having the same issue now, where he's rapidly turning all jokey and not taking anything seriously. It's weird, too, because its so far from his original character: he was a big Irish dude who likes to beat people up. All you need to do to make him a face is change his targets to heels. Instead, he's a big, happy go lucky smiling dude who hasn't shown any real anger over losing the World Title. Dude, he beat the Big Show with a chair for, like, 5 minutes.
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Jan 19, 2013 20:49
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I get the stench of HHHs finger prints any time Sheamus starts doing schtick and I don't really know why. It's just an instinct honed from years of hating HHH and recognizing his brand of terrible forced humor.
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Jan 19, 2013 20:58
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TL posted:My big concern now is that WWE has no idea how to book a top face anymore. Sheamus is having the same issue now, where he's rapidly turning all jokey and not taking anything seriously. It's weird, too, because its so far from his original character: he was a big Irish dude who likes to beat people up. All you need to do to make him a face is change his targets to heels. Instead, he's a big, happy go lucky smiling dude who hasn't shown any real anger over losing the World Title. Supreme Allah posted:I get the stench of HHHs finger prints any time Sheamus starts doing schtick and I don't really know why. It's just an instinct honed from years of hating HHH and recognizing his brand of terrible forced humor.
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Jan 19, 2013 22:16
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Flameingblack posted:Anyone with natural charisma are either heels of CM Punk. Drew will one day be Champ. Mark my words.
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Jan 19, 2013 22:22
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Gonz posted:Michael PS Hayes should have been karate chopped in the throat until dead by a random biker gang. Why can't I stop laughing at this? Is this even a reference to anything?
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Jan 19, 2013 23:07
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Really, given how quickly Sheamus and McIntire fell, I'm surprised either of them had connections backstage. Sheamus bounced back, but the guy lost every match he was in for months back in 2011.
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Jan 19, 2013 23:25
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What I'm getting is that every wrestler should be mentored by William Regal
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Jan 19, 2013 23:35
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Devil Child posted:Really, given how quickly Sheamus and McIntire fell, I'm surprised either of them had connections backstage. Sheamus bounced back, but the guy lost every match he was in for months back in 2011. WWE isn't just bad at pushing new talent. They make drat sure to turn new main eventers back into just another guy.
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Jan 19, 2013 23:37
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:But that's every former champion other than Cena, Bryan, and I guess Henry because he got hurt. Well, they'll never be moneymakers like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista, Edge, or Taker. Oh... wait... poo poo. Big Coffin Hunter fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 23:49
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So in looking at ratings for wrestling during the war, I've come across something that makes me curious. There are about 5 million less people watching now than watched then. Several million of these viewers disappeared immediately when WCW dropped off the face of the earth. Like, the week of. Is it in any way possible that the way Nielsen counts viewers screwed up these numbers because it doesn't account for people switching both shows in any other way than "They were tuned to RAW at 9:45 and Nitro at 10:00"? One aspect I never see taken into account is the fact that TNT, on the west coast, still played things at East Coast times live. Nitro began at 5 in the afternoon and all station bumpers would advertise shows for three hours later than they actually aired over here. People could watch all of Nitro, then watch all of Raw, making the overnights look like twice as many people were watching both shows. Then the Nitro replay aired opposite RAW. WCW's ratings took a giant dive when TNT stopped doing this if my memory can be trusted (it often can't) and that would explain it almost completely. An entire coast of people didn't have to choose which show to watch, and this is never discussed.
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Jan 20, 2013 03:31
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LividLiquid posted:So in looking at ratings for wrestling during the war, I've come across something that makes me curious. There are about 5 million less people watching now than watched then. Several million of these viewers disappeared immediately when WCW dropped off the face of the earth. Like, the week of. That actually sounds like a good question for Meltzer.
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Jan 20, 2013 03:34
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LividLiquid posted:So in looking at ratings for wrestling during the war, I've come across something that makes me curious. There are about 5 million less people watching now than watched then. Several million of these viewers disappeared immediately when WCW dropped off the face of the earth. Like, the week of. If you check out the back issues for the first few weeks of the Wars, Dave does go into the West Coast feed a bit and what it meant for ratings at that point (as well as replays.) As for the first part of your question, I'm not sure if you are asking if Nielsen was missing people switching back and forth due to the quarter hours, or if they were double counting people who switched between shows, or maybe something else. If it is the quarter hour thing, both companies actually got minute by minute ratings patterns (and turned them over to Dave.) So they knew who was watching when with a great deal of accuracy. That's how both sides discovered that hype packages were huge ratings losers and started doing away with them until they realized they needed them to sell PPVs and thus make money.
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Jan 20, 2013 03:46
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You can't have a character as "A big guy who likes fighting" and have him be champ for 4 months. At least 15 minutes a week is spent monologuing, or in feud scenes. Even if Sheamus only did SD! (Not wwe.com, WWE youtube, Raw, Main Event, NXT, Wwe magazine, wwe kids magazine), that's a full hour a month. ...Not to mention guest commentary! Nuance, conflict and backstory make writing tv interesting. What does a champ want? What do they need? (It could be anything from self respect to a morality-changing asskicking). Of course, the WWE chews up and spits out writers. All the logic and continuity on Earth doesn't matter if someone pours ketchup on your storyboards. Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 20, 2013 06:55
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Paulocaust posted:Also, Cena has always struck me as a fake, phony, sociopath kiss rear end. Look at his tremendous acting job during the Eddie tribute. I've hated him since the moment I saw this. It's so loving phony, especially when it's contrasted by genuine guys like the Big Show/Chavo/Benoit doing their tributes later in the show. The fact that you called Cena a sociopath invalidates any opinion you will ever have on anything ever. What a hilariously absurd notion.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:21
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paint dry posted:People are mad because Cena is doing his job? Look at it from the perspective of Steve Urkel. Steve Urkel's schtick was that of a nasally voiced nerd who had a 'hilarious' catchphrase ("Did I do that?") He was a co-star. Then he got popular. He still did his job, but the writers began to give him more and more screen time. Then the show started to revolve around him. Then it was all-Urkel all the goddamned time. Then everyone hated him and wanted to wring his neck, even though he was just doing his job. Same thing with Cena. He's rammed down everyone's throats to the point where people are just burnt out on him. And he's been on top around 8-9 years with very little change or development to his character. Think about that in the context of a normal television show. Even a formulaic, by-the-numbers show like House has seen the characters change and develop, even if the basic plot premise is so similar episode to episode that you could set your watch to it. Now put it within the context of a professional wrestling show, which is probably some of the most formulaic, predictable poo poo you can see on your television any given week. You have someone whose character has been in a prominent (or THE most prominent spot) for almost a loving decade with virtually ZERO change beyond the color of the t-shirt he's wearing. Of course a segment of the fans are loving sick of him and want something new/different.
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Jan 20, 2013 15:07
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Not to mention that with 'House' or any other regular TV show, there's an off-season that lasts three or four months, plus breaks for holidays and such. Even if Cena is only on 'Raw', that's still fifty-two weeks straight every year with no interruption, every episode being at least 25% HUSTLE, LOYALTY, RESPECT. With the exception of being out with an injury, during which he'll still show up for interviews, video packages, etc, he's just constantly on loving television.
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Jan 20, 2013 15:46
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Like, I have no problem with Cena's character or Cena as a wrestler, per se. My favorite grapplemans won't always be the top guy. I wasn't a fan of Randy Orton, Eddie Guerrero (yes, I know, turn in my smark card and leave the Internet) Rock, Triple H, wasn't a fan of Austin 3:16 ( ) but I've come around on some of them when something piques my interest. I thought Cena's character was interesting initially and was something I thought about re: professional wrestling. "Are there ever going to be any good guys ever again?" and was happy to see a character like Cena's make it to the top and not be a mockery of old 80s babyfaces. But then he just stayed there. Doing nothing, having boring feuds. I think a lot of fans on here could find Cena interesting again if something happens with his character/gimmick. That doesn't necessarily mean turning him heel (although it's the easiest way of doing so.) Basically, if you eat cookies and ice cream every night for supper, you're going to eventually get sick of eating cookies and ice cream, regardless of how much you love both things.
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Jan 20, 2013 16:51
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Perdido posted:Look at it from the perspective of Steve Urkel. Except Family Matters was smart enough to realize when the schtick wore down and started to mix in the Stefan Ur-kel character or whatever because the pandering nerd was growing old to people. They knew the focus of the fanbase had shifted from Steve loving up perpetually to finding a way for him to be with Laura. They had entire episodes revolving around the non-nerd version of Steve because they saw ratings decline. They didnt blame those drops on Carl or Laura and push Steve harder to compensate, they found a way to make the character fresh.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:05
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That, uh, doesn't change my point at all. People got sick of the character and they tuned out. It took changing things up (the Stefan Urkel character you mentioned) to make things new and interesting. John Cena's character is still in the 'all Urkel, all the time' phase.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:08
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Perdido posted:That, uh, doesn't change my point at all. People got sick of the character and they tuned out. It took changing things up (the Stefan Urkel character you mentioned) to make things new and interesting. Oops I read that wrong. I am now going to enjoy a nice coffee to wake my stupid rear end up.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:17
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I'm thoroughly enjoying all the Urkeltalk on this page.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:43
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Did I do that? 
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Jan 20, 2013 17:48
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Comparing Family Matters to pro wrestling? Come on, there is absolutely no crossover there and to try to pro- 
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Jan 20, 2013 17:51
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It's funny because the Urkeltalk was originally aimed at me and I'm from the UK so I have no clue what Family Matters is. I remember when I was a kid there was a Hulk Hogan cartoon. Why isn't there a Cena cartoon? Wait sorry I shouldn't give them ideas.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:08
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paint dry posted:It's funny because the Urkeltalk was originally aimed at me and I'm from the UK so I have no clue what Family Matters is. Probably because whenever WWE attempts cartoons anymore they look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_g_d_qtmJw
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Jan 20, 2013 18:11
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Probably because whenever WWE attempts cartoons anymore they look like this: Are you saying you see something wrong with a cartoon about Vince McMahon's rear end?
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Jan 20, 2013 18:15
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paint dry posted:Are you saying you see something wrong with a cartoon about Vince McMahon's rear end? Only legally. That cartoon would still be running for the next 15 years otherwise.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:39
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paint dry posted:It's funny because the Urkeltalk was originally aimed at me and I'm from the UK so I have no clue what Family Matters is. I'm trying to think of a UK sitcom (where it was painfully obvious the actors and/or creative team overstayed their welcome by a number of years) that we could use as a useful Cena comparison, but as UK shows tend to be much shorter in terms of seasons and number of episodes than they are here in the States, I find I can't think of any that would be parallel to something like "Family Matters", which ran here for what seemed like an eternity (thanks to syndication). I'm sure one of our intrepid UK goon wrestlefans will be happy to point out the deficiency in my knowledge before long here, though. 
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Jan 20, 2013 19:21
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I'm trying to think of a UK sitcom (where it was painfully obvious the actors and/or creative team overstayed their welcome by a number of years) that we could use as a useful Cena comparison, but as UK shows tend to be much shorter in terms of seasons and number of episodes than they are here in the States, I find I can't think of any that would be parallel to something like "Family Matters", which ran here for what seemed like an eternity (thanks to syndication). I'm sure one of our intrepid UK goon wrestlefans will be happy to point out the deficiency in my knowledge before long here, though. It would be like Papa Lazarou getting his own sitcom and being made for PG audiences instead of just appearing on two League of Gentlemen sketches.
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Jan 20, 2013 19:33
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It would be like Papa Lazarou getting his own sitcom and being made for PG audiences instead of just appearing on two League of Gentlemen sketches. This is a pretty good comparison. Imagine he got show that aired every day. And it was just him behaving in exactly the same way as the sketches he was in. Without changing. Just exactly the same.
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Jan 20, 2013 19:37
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Will they really promote Mania 30 as Wrestlemania XXX? Either way, what are the odds of another Chyna porno of the same name?
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Jan 20, 2013 20:26
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Valeyard posted:Will they really promote Mania 30 as Wrestlemania XXX? She might have already filmed it.
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Jan 20, 2013 20:27
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Cavauro posted:Only legally. That cartoon would still be running for the next 15 years otherwise. A friend was working as Michael Cole's top guy in video when this lawsuit rumor started. He asked Cole and was told "Where do they come up with this stuff?" so this was not true.
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Jan 20, 2013 20:34
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bobkatt013 posted:She might have already filmed it. Oh gently caress, please tell me that's un-true. Watching and reviewing "Chyna is Queen of the Ring" for a podcast was horrendous enough.
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Jan 20, 2013 21:20
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Oh gently caress, please tell me that's un-true. Watching and reviewing "Chyna is Queen of the Ring" for a podcast was horrendous enough. She is doing porno. I thought they do around 50 a year?
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Jan 20, 2013 21:22
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bobkatt013 posted:She is doing porno. I thought they do around 50 a year? She also escorts on the side so she probably doesn't have the time.
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Jan 20, 2013 21:25
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:She also escorts on the side so she probably doesn't have the time. I did not know about that, and I wish I never did. She really had a spectacular fall. It must be in the top 10.
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Jan 20, 2013 21:36
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I'd say top 3. Her, Jake Roberts, Scott Hall.
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Jan 20, 2013 21:48
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paint dry posted:I guess I hadn't really realised all this. Thanks! Just out of interest, this EXACT question was asked (and is indexed in the OP!) in 2009. So in 2009, people were tired of Cena's character being stale and him continuing to do the same old thing.... and in 2013 nothing has changed. That says a lot. Edit: This thread from January of 2006 shows people making exactly the same complaints about Cena as well. That's almost 7 years (at least) of people feeling like they're getting the same old poo poo from Cena. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 20, 2013 21:54
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VogeGandire posted:I'd say top 3. Her, Jake Roberts, Scott Hall. DDP's greatest challenge still awaits him.
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Jan 20, 2013 22:12
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