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I Before E posted:What are some must-watch Yoshihiko matches? --Vs Kenny Omega (DDT DRAMATIC Fantasia #275 -- 05.05.2010) --Yoshihiko & Danshoku Dino Vs Kota Ibushi & Kenny Omega (MAX BUMP 2009 -- 04.05.2009) --Yoshihiko & Danshoku Dino vs Antonio Honda & Taka Michinoku (4/5/2009) --Vs Kazunori Huzioka [MMA Rules Match] (No Date) --Vs Antonio Honda vs Mr. #6 [3-Way] (No Date)
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Apr 17, 2013 04:46
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Why did everyone call Jonathan Coachman "the Coach" was he like a soccer coach as his day job?
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Apr 17, 2013 05:02
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Hirams Bitch posted:Why did everyone call Jonathan Coachman "the Coach" was he like a soccer coach as his day job? Same reason Mike Mizanin is called "The Miz"
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Apr 17, 2013 05:03
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Does anyone remember that tournament that some dude was going to hold (I think in Arizona) with something like 64 wrestlers over a period of 3 days? I think the concept was wins or losses wouldn't matter, instead there would be a panel of judges for each match (maybe Les Thatcher and Bret Hart were two of the judges?) and the guy who was judged to be the better wrestler would advance. On top of that, there was an entry fee so the whole thing sounded like a huge scam. Did this ever actually happen? Am I imagining things? I swear there was an interview about it on Figure 4 Daily or Observer Radio or something.
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Apr 17, 2013 05:07
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It looks like I am not a crazy person, this is a thing that happened: http://www.johnnymantell.com/2011gwttournament.htm Given that half of the advertised judges didn't show up and Kahagas went to the finals, this was a very lovely tournament.
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Apr 17, 2013 05:29
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MassRanTer posted:It looks like I am not a crazy person, this is a thing that happened: Kahagas is the only wrestler in that tournament I've heard of, and even then only because he recently won the joke of a championship that is the NWA Heavyweight Title
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Apr 17, 2013 06:04
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oldpainless posted:Better match: Hbk/Diesel street fight or Hart/Diesel from Survivor Series? I'd say the street fight. That's probably my favourite Nash match. Bret/Diesel from Survivor Series is, as far as I remember, better than their King of the Ring match but not as good as their Royal Rumble match (screwy non-finish not withstanding). Not sure how it compares to their cage match at the In Your House before WMXII.
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Apr 17, 2013 12:15
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Did Steve Corino really pay Paul Heyman $50,000 to be ECW Champ? What are some other good "mark for yourself" stories?
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Apr 17, 2013 13:41
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Bigass Moth posted:Did Steve Corino really pay Paul Heyman $50,000 to be ECW Champ? What are some other good "mark for yourself" stories? I doubt Corino even has $50k now, much less back then, so I'm guessing that one's a lie. According to Nash, Hall, and a few others, Bret Hart was willing to work for less than he was worth to the WWF as long as he didn't have to job. Also, Van Hammer refused the name Private Stash when he was put into that dumb M.I.A. stable because he didn't want to be the lowest military rank.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:46
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CombineThresher posted:According to Nash, Hall, and a few others, Bret Hart was willing to work for less than he was worth to the WWF as long as he didn't have to job. I wonder if this is just in the context of the Screwjob, or a general thing Bret did? I know Bret said to Vince that he would take a paycut to stay with the company, rather than drop the title to Shawn and leave for WCW.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:48
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CombineThresher posted:According to Nash, Hall, and a few others, Bret Hart was willing to work for less than he was worth to the WWF as long as he didn't have to job. Or didn't have to job to people he didn't want to, AKA Creative Control? Which he already had in the contract he signed in 1996, didn't he?
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Apr 17, 2013 16:23
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Skjorte posted:I somehow got pressured into having to do a 15-20 minute presentation on pro wrestling tommorrow. It's basically just to kill time in the morning before classes begin, so I'm not required to go out of my way to be either informative or entertaining, but I'd like to make it as fun as I can since just about everyone here does martial arts and find my love of pro graps to be hilarious. 89 posted:In another discussion, if you guys made a introduction to pro wrestling compilation that was geared into making a new fan, what would you put on there? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhIe9zSq-fM&t=50s
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Apr 17, 2013 17:37
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triplexpac posted:I wonder if this is just in the context of the Screwjob, or a general thing Bret did? I just finished Wrestling in Shadows last night. The way the movie portrays it is like this: 1 - Bret gets a really big offer from WCW 2 - He is loyal to WWF so talks to Vince. 3 - Vince offers a 20 year contract which Bret accepts. 4 - Vince lets the attitude changeover happen 5 - Bret is asked to turn heel (Hart/Austin double turn match). Bret does it. 6 - Bret goes from biggest face to biggest heel. Still a face in Canada. Heat is anti-US heat. 7 - Bret doesn't like the attitude era changes. Feels stuck because of the role Vince put him in. 8 - Vince rescinds 20 year contract. 9 - Bret signs w/ WCW 10 - Summer Slam - Bret has a contract stipulation giving him creative control over his character. Vince wants him to drop the belt to Michaels. Bret doesn't want to do it in Canada in front of his family and friends. He wants to be able to leave WWF with his head held high. Says he is happy to drop the belt the next night on Raw. 11 - Screw job. I hope I got this right and I hope it answers any questions. E: also, the movie is amazing and well worth a watch. Definitely the best wrestling film I've seen. But I've only seen this, Beyond the Mat, The Wrestler and The One and Only. So not a lot to base this on. Waltzing Along fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 20:33
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Bigass Moth posted:Did Steve Corino really pay Paul Heyman $50,000 to be ECW Champ? What are some other good "mark for yourself" stories? Bret Hart's whole book.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:36
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mactheknife posted:Bret Hart's whole book. I still get mad whenever someone dares speak ill about my hero Bret Hart I wonder if kids today will feel the same way about Cena in 20 years?
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Apr 17, 2013 20:38
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triplexpac posted:I still get mad whenever someone dares speak ill about my hero Bret Hart I love his work, I don't like him as a person at all.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:39
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I thought that Bret tried to get around the screw job by saying he would be happy to drop to Foley or Taker on Survivor Series, or to Michaels on Raw, but he wouldn't combine the two (Michaels at Survivor Series). That was the narrative I think Foley puts forth in his book. They didn't mention it on the Bret vs Shawn DVD so maybe Bret just told Foley that. Anyway, Bret is still not the bad guy in Montreal.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:44
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I almost feel like we should have a Montreal Screwjob FAQ/Sticky, so that every time we start to go down this rabbit hole we can just point to that. Not that I don't love talking about the Hitman, but I swear we had an indepth discussion on Montreal just a month or two ago. Edit: I see it's mentioned in the OP at least haha
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Apr 17, 2013 20:47
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triplexpac posted:I almost feel like we should have a Montreal Screwjob FAQ/Sticky, so that every time we start to go down this rabbit hole we can just point to that. I mean, I wasn't only talking about Montreal, but I can see why it'd open that particular can.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:49
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Chewy Bitems posted:Being near totally oblivious to everything that happened in WCW ever, what's the deal with Rick Steiner? I know Scott Steiner went from being bemulleted singlet-technical-skills guy to roidmonster extraordinaire, but what happened to his beardy-helmety brother? WWE.com just posted a "where are they now" article about Rick Steiner. It's pretty interesting. He's now a real estate guy! http://www.wwe.com/classics/wherearetheynow/where-are-they-now-rick-steiner-26107767
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Apr 17, 2013 20:53
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Waltzing Along posted:I just finished Wrestling in Shadows last night. The way the movie portrays it is like this: Your timeline is a bit off. Vince couldn't rescind the contract, it was a guaranteed deal. Vince told Bret he was going to have to breach the deal a bit after Summerslam 97. Bret gets permission to talk to WCW to see if he can get his original deal. At the same time, the WWF has raised the price on IYH PPVs and that money starts coming in during the fall of 97. This additional money takes the WWF from dangerously in the red to mildly profitable. After seeing this, Vince goes to Bret and says "Well, you can stay if you want..." but Bret has already agreed to a deal with WCW. This automatically triggers a 30 day creative control clause in Bret's contract that gives him reasonable creative control over his character for the last 30 days of his contract if the contract were to end prematurely. Bret still has the WWF title and he doesn't want to lose to Michaels in Montreal. A number of different scenarios are discussed and it is finally agreed that Bret will drop the belt in early December in a 4 way, where Michaels pins someone else to win the belt. This is technically after Bret's WCW contract will begin, but Bischoff agrees. Vince tries to change the details of the title change a few times after and both sides start realizing this is not going to work, so Bret asks to just vacate the title after Survivor Series and leave it at that. Of course, it wasn't meant to be and Montreal happens.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:56
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I love how the Montreal Screwjob has gotten to the point where learning about it is about as much fun as learning the tax code.
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Apr 17, 2013 20:58
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MassRanTer posted:Your timeline is a bit off. Vince couldn't rescind the contract, it was a guaranteed deal. Vince told Bret he was going to have to breach the deal a bit after Summerslam 97. Bret gets permission to talk to WCW to see if he can get his original deal. At the same time, the WWF has raised the price on IYH PPVs and that money starts coming in during the fall of 97. This additional money takes the WWF from dangerously in the red to mildly profitable. After seeing this, Vince goes to Bret and says "Well, you can stay if you want..." but Bret has already agreed to a deal with WCW. Ah, this wasn't in the movie. Thanks for the clarification. What about HHH and Michaels? Was it really a surprise to them? I believed them in the movie.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:03
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Waltzing Along posted:Ah, this wasn't in the movie. Thanks for the clarification. What about HHH and Michaels? Was it really a surprise to them? I believed them in the movie. They both have long since admitted to being in on it.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:04
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Halloween Jack posted:I love how the Montreal Screwjob has gotten to the point where learning about it is about as much fun as learning the tax code. I really couldn't disagree more. I love reading about the ins and outs of it.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:09
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The Goog posted:I really couldn't disagree more. I love reading about the ins and outs of it. Is there a single minute of the time period leading up to and immediately following the Screwjob that hasn't been documented and analyzed completely to death? At what point is there literally nothing else to say about it (I would assert that point was reached half a decade ago).
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Apr 17, 2013 21:13
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As much as I love Bret (as a wrestler, not a person) and hate Shawn (as a person, not a wrestler), Vince and co. did what was best for the company. Yeah, it was slimey, but letting one of their top guys leave on a high-note to the company that's beating you in the ratings is really, really bad for business. If he had left without being pinned, or by vacating, the WWE title would have been devalued a ton and it would create a stigma where the best in the world are in WCW, because Bret conquered the WWF before leaving for them. Of course, from Bret's perspective, he wouldn't want to leave with a clean loss because that devalues his stock, but he sounds like he was at least as much of an rear end in a top hat as Vince about it, if not more, and I don't know if I could justifiably blame Vince for doing what he did.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:15
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Bret had it in his contract that he could go out how he saw fit. Vince agreed to this. How does it make Bret an rear end in a top hat that he laid out exactly how he wanted to go out, Vince agreed, then screwed him over? If Vince didn't want Bret to go out in a way that benefited Bret, he really shouldn't have agreed to a contract that let Bret do so.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:19
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He offered to drop the belt clean on Raw the next night. There was literally no reason for the screwjob.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:24
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flashy_mcflash posted:Is there a single minute of the time period leading up to and immediately following the Screwjob that hasn't been documented and analyzed completely to death? At what point is there literally nothing else to say about it (I would assert that point was reached half a decade ago).
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Apr 17, 2013 21:24
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Why does anyone hate Bret as a person? His sins are...cheating on his wife? I guess that's bad but he's a saint compared to Vince and the rest of the roster.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:24
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triplexpac posted:Bret had it in his contract that he could go out how he saw fit. Vince agreed to this. I know Vince breached the contract by doing this, but it was the smartest thing to do. Like, I said. It's slimey, but it was a neccessary evil. And trust me, I love Bret. I mark for pretty much every Canadian wrestler all the way down to Frankie the Mobster, but the fact that he would drop it to Taker/Foley but not Shawn in Canada shows that he didn't give a poo poo about losing in front of a home crowd as much as he wanted to stick it to Shawn (if that's all true). Even if it's not, Vince still made the right call in my opinion.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:25
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triplexpac posted:Bret had it in his contract that he could go out how he saw fit. Vince agreed to this. "reasonable creative control" doesn't mean "goes how however he wants". Vince thought "Lose your last match on PPV" was reasonable. Because of the opponent and the location, Bret disagreed. That's the entire problem.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:25
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Was there ever an attempt to take Vince to court for violation of the contract's terms?
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Apr 17, 2013 21:25
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oldskool posted:"reasonable creative control" doesn't mean "goes how however he wants". Vince thought "Lose your last match on PPV" was reasonable. Because of the opponent and the location, Bret disagreed. That's the entire problem. True, I guess that's fair enough. I thought he had full creative control. I guess we need to discuss the Screwjob more after all  haha
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Apr 17, 2013 21:26
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Perdido posted:Was there ever an attempt to take Vince to court for violation of the contract's terms? I'd like to think the judge would laugh. Or possibly stare as the Undertaker takes the stand and Paul Bearer goes all out with his urn shooting light everywhere. Nah, probably some stigmata on taking to court. Never work in the industry again, etc.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:27
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Let's remember the most important thing about Montreal. Nash and Hall got yet another raise from WCW.
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Apr 17, 2013 21:59
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oatgan posted:He offered to drop the belt clean on Raw the next night. There was literally no reason for the screwjob. Bullshit, PPVs are way more grander a stage than a regular old Monday Night RAW. The Screwjob set the stage for Vince to be history's greatest dirtbag, and it was a huge reason for WWF's success over WCW. "Bret screwed Bret" was loving magical, and then having him face Austin was let's face it, probably the greatest wrestling will ever be.
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Apr 17, 2013 22:16
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what the gently caress are you talking about?
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Apr 17, 2013 22:18
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Jefferoo posted:Bullshit, PPVs are way more grander a stage than a regular old Monday Night RAW. The Screwjob set the stage for Vince to be history's greatest dirtbag, and it was a huge reason for WWF's success over WCW. "Bret screwed Bret" was loving magical, and then having him face Austin was let's face it, probably the greatest wrestling will ever be.; When Vince decided to go through with it "This is gonna win us the war!!!" never entered his mind so I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.
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Apr 17, 2013 22:25
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