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So unless I'm being hosed with on April 1st, Crypt of the Necrodancer buyers will have alpha builds of the game beginning on April 30th.
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Apr 1, 2014 10:49
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Syrg Sapphire posted:So unless I'm being hosed with on April 1st, Crypt of the Necrodancer buyers will have alpha builds of the game beginning on April 30th. If that's an april fool's joke it's a hell of a way to alienate your entire user base.
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Apr 1, 2014 13:39
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andrew smash posted:If that's an april fool's joke it's a hell of a way to alienate your entire user base. I hope that it's an April fool's joke and that the pre-order build will actually be released tomorrow.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:21
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I've been playing Rogue's Tale for the past few days and really loving it. It just came out on Steam and only cost me £3.50 but there's a demo which is identical to the full game but restricts you to level 10 rather than 20. Demo here: http://rogue.epixx.org/download.html It's a bit of a weird one, all told. Firstly, it's brutally difficult and your first characters will probably die faster than in Dungeon Crawl or ADOM. Secondly, it seems a bit bare bones at first but I actually think that's what gives it it's appeal to me. Its very easy to jump in and extremely quick to give you your first couple of levels and first talent point so you can very soon get up to speed in whatever direction you choose to go in. One thing I really like is that the combats are very fast and brutal. Even tough looking opponents drop fast if you're well equipped and have good talents but, of course, you can drop fast too. I fully expect some people to dismiss it as being rather simplistic and it doesn't have the richness of Nethack etc but I'm pretty well addicted to it. It's hard to define exactly why but it plays very well and is very consistent with itself. Check the demo out, anyway, because there's nothing to lose. A few tips (I'm new myself and haven't got too far yet): Don't underestimate traps. The simplest ones can gently caress you up badly and even a spider web can be deadly... seriously. I almost always take the Keen Eye talent first to cut down on the amount of trap deaths I have. Money's hard to come by and you cannot sell anything you have not identified first (costs 20g per item). This is annoying but can't be helped. You can heal by resting (numpad 5) but only when the food/water in bottom right says satiated. The start I always use at the moment is +2 stamina(8) and +2 Agility(8) then first point gained at level 3 into agility again and the next into stamina. As far as I can make out, you're either an agility OR strength user and agility users either dual wield daggers/claws or use a medium weapon WITHOUT A SHIELD which count as using it in 2 hands. Strength users can use large weapons and shields more effectively etc. There's nothing stopping you using anything but this gets the best results. Don't underestimate ranged combat, either yours or the enemy's usage. You have 2 weapons set slots (swapped with w). You gain talents by ctrl/right clicking on wells, archery targets, campfires, magic pedestals(?) and suchlike. You can only get certain talents from certain objects but they aren't too rare in my experience. This is getting way too long but the epixx site linked above has all the info you could need about game items and mechanics and here is a thread started by the dev to give hints and tips: http://www.desura.com/games/rogues-tale/forum/thread/new-player-tips There's also an enormous playlist on Youtube, sadly with no commentary, which shows a winning character from start to end but I haven't watched it because SPOILERS!
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Apr 2, 2014 13:59
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Rogue's Tale is definitely a meaty game primed to get meatier still now that it has landed on Steam and will hopefully get some serious traction---very "classical" in the Roguelike machinations while still shooting for a good deal of flavor. Looks like it is still a little ways off until the next substantial update, but the game is already at a fairly mature state considering how long it has been in development prior to getting Greenlit.
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Apr 2, 2014 14:14
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Rapacity posted:I've been playing Rogue's Tale for the past few days and really loving it. It just came out on Steam and only cost me £3.50 but there's a demo which is identical to the full game but restricts you to level 10 rather than 20. Rapacity you should rephrase your excellent post about the game in a format similar to the ones in the OP so the game can be linked up there.
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Apr 2, 2014 18:46
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Rogue's Tale is definitely a meaty game primed to get meatier still now that it has landed on Steam and will hopefully get some serious traction---very "classical" in the Roguelike machinations while still shooting for a good deal of flavor. Seemed a lot like roll dice death, roll dice win like very bad roguelikes. A lot of doomed games, especially with trap nonsense.
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Apr 3, 2014 01:13
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I'm trying to like Rogue's Tale, but it just seems poorly balanced and lacking in depth. There really seems to be a lot of unwinnable situations, especially since you can't retreat up stairs. There don't seem to be any other tools to handle those situations in the early game either. Traps on the first floor that do over the maximum possible starting health are just plain obnoxious-- you shouldn't need to spam search 3 times per step to avoid instadeath. That said, there is something somewhat charming about the game, so I'm going to keep trying it for a while yet. IVAN felt this uneven when I first started playing it, and ended up being one of my favorites... not sure that this game will be able to win me over without giving me banana peel legs, though.
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Apr 3, 2014 03:52
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Dairy Power posted:I'm trying to like Rogue's Tale, but it just seems poorly balanced and lacking in depth. There really seems to be a lot of unwinnable situations, especially since you can't retreat up stairs. There don't seem to be any other tools to handle those situations in the early game either. Traps on the first floor that do over the maximum possible starting health are just plain obnoxious-- you shouldn't need to spam search 3 times per step to avoid instadeath. Press the G key to bring up your chat, type /search 2 and that will change it to double search for each time you press the key. I've had it set to that and I run into traps far less often. Also yeah the RNG I'm in quite the love/hate relationship wit the game myself, and I'm in the same boat as you. The thing that worries are folks and even the dev mentioning things like "oh once you get your first heritage it's much easier". I hope that means I just have a lot more to learn, and not that I have to pray and hope to get heritages as an edge to make it -anywhere- far along.
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Apr 3, 2014 04:39
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TyreForHyre posted:Press the G key to bring up your chat, type /search 2 and that will change it to double search for each time you press the key. I've had it set to that and I run into traps far less often. Ya, thanks for the tip-- I actually saw that in the dev thread a little bit ago. Unfortunately, the game seems really unoptimized. There's a huge time difference in searching between when enemies are still alive on the map and when you've cleared them all. It just feels laggy doing a double/triple search every step. You can't retreat up stairs if an enemy is aggroed. I'm really not sure how you're supposed to even escape from a bad spawn. I guess you're just screwed if you open a door and there's something out of depth on the other side? Another thought couple thoughts-- the economy in this game is painfully unfun imo. Having to identify anything to sell it feels cheap. Having to spend all of the money you make for the first hour repairing the gear you find isn't fun to me either. Of course, I also understand the idea that it should feel like an accomplishment to be able to buy some awesome blessed weapon. Also, I had a map just a little bit ago that was unwinnable-- an enemy closed a gate that I had to go through to get down to the next floor. There was no way for me to reopen it. Since it was the second level of the dungeon, I didn't have enough money to rest at the inn and reset the dungeon. Probably just gonna write this one off, but something about it makes me want to keep trying.
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Apr 3, 2014 05:29
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I think part of the reason Rogue's Tale feels so RNG dependent is the fact that there are very few consumables to use to get through tough situations. A low-level character might get lucky and find a potion of healing, but other than that they get nada. You can't even use scrolls and wands without spending a talent point on learning how to read. So, when a tough monster comes along, either you have the damage and defenses to kill it or you die. You can't run away because they'll prevent you from using the staircase, and you probably don't have any consumables to either turn the tables or escape. Sometimes you'll run into a hasted dire bat that attacks you for half your health the same turn it enters your light radius, and there's nothing you can do other than hope you one-shot it.
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Apr 3, 2014 05:45
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It sounds like a roguelike written by someone that hasn't actually played them much, just heard other people describe them. 'Rocks fall, you die' situations are amusing but also rare in any decent roguelike.
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Apr 3, 2014 08:19
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I totally understand the negative points about Rogue's Tale and I hope there's a bit more balancing to be done but, what can I say, I can't stop playing it! What I will say is that now I've played it quite a bit, I either die to a trap in the first minute or I generally survive at least to one whole dungeon clear so I feel that skill certainly comes into play. About stairs, one thing to remember is that you can always go back up stairs on the turn after you came down as long as you do it immediately. In this way you can go down with a ranged weapon and, if you find yourself next to an enemy, go back up and switch weapons. One other thing, if you find a floor that is just too rough, you can go up ( assuming you are able) and roll a boulder onto the stairs. This will 'clear' the dungeon allowing you to 'T'ravel back to town and reset the dungeon without resting at the inn.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:07
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What's the most popular language/framework for creating text-based roguelikes these days? I wanted to fiddle with the idea of a classical roguelike with combat inspired by Dark Souls, and people make these things for 7DRL so there must be a way to get rolling without spending ages trying to get the absolute basics of "move around a map" off the ground.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:13
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I don't have an answer for your question, but you should probably check out this: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=26781.0
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Apr 4, 2014 19:17
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Well, then. e: I might still do this, just for fun and because I haven't done any proper gamedev in ages. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 19:31
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I haven't actually tried it, and playing dark souls has certainly made me think about how a roguelike with stamina would work. I think you'd really need to come up with a representation for weapon ranges, with different weapons hitting different sized/shaped areas. I don't think typical roguelike bump combat would serve very well with stamina. EDIT: I wouldn't let this stop you from trying, it's not like this guy has produced a perfect souls game roguelike and made others obsolete. I'm sure there's room for more. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 19:35
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Jeffrey posted:I don't have an answer for your question, but you should probably check out this: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=26781.0 Haha I'd forgotten about that. I'll have to see if he took my advice or if it's still just generic roguelike #343134 with xp as currency and a stamina bar that only determines your shield blocking.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:35
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Jeffrey posted:I haven't actually tried it, and playing dark souls has certainly made me think about how a roguelike with stamina would work. I think you'd really need to come up with a representation for weapon ranges, with different weapons hitting different sized/shaped areas. I don't think typical roguelike bump combat would serve very well with stamina. It would definitely be different. I'd have to start putting it together to see how well it would actually work, but my initial thoughts:
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Apr 4, 2014 19:43
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ProfessorProf posted:What's the most popular language/framework for creating text-based roguelikes these days? I wanted to fiddle with the idea of a classical roguelike with combat inspired by Dark Souls, and people make these things for 7DRL so there must be a way to get rolling without spending ages trying to get the absolute basics of "move around a map" off the ground. I've experimented with libtcod, Love2D, and currently in SFML. I do most of my professional coding in C++ so I recommend libtcod and SFML, but all three were quite easy to quickly prototype with. I dropped libtcod because it was a bit too limiting regarding tiles and other design choices, but for a classic roguelike with text, it'd probably be the easiest to use.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:45
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I don't think Dark Souls is that great of an inspiration for roguelikes - for setting, yes, hell yes, but not for combat. Dark Souls combat isn't about the stamina bar, it is about gauging your opponents' weaknesses while shielding your own, and that isn't something that translates from twitchy gameplay into static turns very well. Unless you have several talented artists, you aren't going to have animating sprites that portray swing arcs, weak/strong sides, moments of vulnerability, etc., so you're either relying on text to convey that information (which takes all effort of perception out of the player's hands) or just throwing everything into the air and having it be random chance.
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Apr 4, 2014 20:08
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Maybe if you borrowed heavily from ddrogue or Princess Maker RL.
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Apr 4, 2014 20:22
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dis astranagant posted:Princess Maker RL. Wait, this is a thing? My god.
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Apr 4, 2014 20:28
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It's actually really drat good and basically the sequel to ddrogue. e: I guess it's just PrincessRL dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 20:35
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I've been thinking for a long while about expressing my love of roguelikes by making my own at some point when I've got my poo poo together. I've read several good discussions of roguelike mechanics in this thread, so maybe you can weigh in if you're interested. The game would be set in early modern times, ie. muskets, swords, pikes etc. which would mean mostly more open areas than in a dungeon RL. The weapons would be deadly & ranged, capable of killing or crippling you in one hit (the combat in Unreal world and dwarf fortress is my inspiration). Because its so hard to survive an open field with a lot of guns aimed at you, the central mechanic would be Luck, a stat that keeps you alive until it runs out, or the player finds safety/cover. Basically a limited number of turns where your rear end isn't yet grass. The player could use superstitions, like rituals or lucky items to increase their survivability. Let me know how badly thought out you think this.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:01
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You might consider playing Bionic Dues, which uses lots of deadly ranged weapons; the player's party members can typically only survive one or two shots before the next one kills them. In Bionic Dues' case, this ends up meaning that the player uses a lot of LOS abuse (make enemy waste their turn walking into LOS, then one-hit kill them) and area-of-effect weapons so they can kill without being killed. In any case, if your weapons are deadly, then you need to figure out some mechanic to allow for asymmetrical combat (many vs. one). "Luck" as hitpoints could work, but seems a bit artificial to me.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:16
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What's the difference between luck and hit points?
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Apr 8, 2014 17:35
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Bitter Mushroom posted:I've been thinking for a long while about expressing my love of roguelikes by making my own at some point when I've got my poo poo together. I've read several good discussions of roguelike mechanics in this thread, so maybe you can weigh in if you're interested. I've always liked the idea of a "hero field", the sort of thing that lets Han and Leia hold off 100 stormtroopers on Endor before Leia finally gets shot once. Knowing how much of this resource you have left is important for turn based decision making. Of course this resource only works against the little scrubby enemies who are supposed to fall to you in combat; when you meet an equal in the field, things are lethally dangerous for both of you. Conceptually you can use Morale as a similar stat. Heroic morale lets you weather blow after blow, beaten but unbroken, until you're finally worn down by combat and someone gets a nasty hit in on you. See Boromir's last battle for an example.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:39
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:What's the difference between luck and hit points? Mechanically very little, right? It's all in the presentation. You could say that one of the differences is that Luck means you don't take physical damage from hits that only ding your Luck, where as any blow that takes off Hit Points conceptually means you are cut, battered or bruised and therefore it's possible for you to be crit in the jibblies and take some sort of ongoing damage/debuff status.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:41
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:What's the difference between luck and hit points? In a more Sci-Fi/space sense, sounds like Luck is a rechargeable shield and hit points are the unhealable 'hull' points on a space ship.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:12
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Slaan posted:In a more Sci-Fi/space sense, sounds like Luck is a rechargeable shield and hit points are the unhealable 'hull' points on a space ship. Someone's been playing too much FTL these days. 
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Apr 8, 2014 22:26
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Slaan posted:In a more Sci-Fi/space sense, sounds like Luck is a rechargeable shield and hit points are the unhealable 'hull' points on a space ship. More or less, thing is I don't want it to feel like just another set of hitpoints, while at the same time it's got to be a logical manageable resource like everything else in roguelikes.
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Apr 8, 2014 23:08
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Bitter Mushroom posted:More or less, thing is I don't want it to feel like just another set of hitpoints, while at the same time it's got to be a logical manageable resource like everything else in roguelikes. If you don't want it to feel like another set of hitpoints, then it can't be a resource that gets depleted when you get hit and which is a major determinant in whether or not your character is in imminent threat of death. Unfortunate, but that's game design for you.
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Apr 9, 2014 00:18
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This is a really bad idea and I strongly advise against it, but if you desperately wanted to distinguish the two you could make hit points visible and luck (semi-)invisible to the player. A much better idea: self-buffs with limited uses or carefully balanced cooldowns that reduce incoming damage conditionally (for example, only if you move every turn while it's active, or maybe it lasts for 5 turns and each step you take adds half a turn to the duration.) The ideal for an ability like that is that it encourages the player to play in a certain way while allowing for situations where they go against it if the payoff is big enough. More cost/benefit analysis is the best way to keep turn-based games interesting. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 00:23
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What you could do is model it as avoidance and not necessarily luck. Thematically, avoidance could be replenished with movement or while stationary without enemies in sight to represent cover from fire. Of course, you'd necessarily need to design combat where movement is married to attacking or at least heavily intertwined. Hoplite (for android and ios) is a good example of that. Encounters would also need to be short to avoid a long game of grabass if you intend for melee to be a sizable portion of combat. You could either design towards skirmishes where players are meant to pop out and fire a few shots then retreat, or make the default attack include movement and grant bonuses instead for standing still to attack in the form of increased damage/accuracy/crit chance to represent the focused effort. Alternatively, if you want to stick with luck, you could treat it like paradox in ToME where above a certain threshold, you receive increasing chances for bad things to happen, like major wounds that take time or resources to remove and cause death when stacked high enough. Paradox is an iffy system though because I feel it often matters a ton or not at all, so you need a decent amount of granularity when you begin introducing penalties for raising it too high. Tiramisu fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 00:45
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I know I'm stealing this concept from somewhere, but you could have Luck be a bonus to your defences (chance to dodge, chance to take partial damage from a hit, whatever) instead of a direct HP surrogate. When it's full, you're almost invincible, since you dodge like crazy and barely get scratched by what does hit you. When it's zeroed out, those same attacks are deadly serious. That also helps since you can mess with the player's luck without directly attacking him. So like, against a boss or other important character, your effective luck is halved. Now shotgun mooks can shoot at you and do next to nothing, while John the Shotgun Guy, with the same weapon and skills, is a major threat. e: In my defence, I type slowly
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Apr 9, 2014 01:03
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Tiramisu posted:Paradox is an iffy system though because I feel it often matters a ton or not at all, so you need a decent amount of granularity when you begin introducing penalties for raising it too high. Paradox is a great system plagued by three closely related problems: Paradox Mages are woefully underpowered so they have to flirt with high Paradox to even come close to the damage output of other classes, there's too much safety room at the bottom, and the danger is implemented as % failure instead of escalating but consistent drawbacks.
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Apr 9, 2014 01:07
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Along the avoidance line of thought, if you've ever played Frozen Synapse, I think something like the visibility system in that would be super cool in a roguelike type game. Although that game is in (top-down)3D and I don't know if you're interested in making anything like that.
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Apr 9, 2014 01:11
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New Incursion is Getting Places: https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike 4th release in this past little while, with tentative support for non-US keyboards, and ability to switch screen resolution/fullscreen/windowed at runtime being big among the latest alongside the giant bug where when items change their type, perhaps from a rod to a staff, they get multiplied in quantity---problems due to libtcod are getting fixed and merged back into libtcod as well since Jice is apparently really on the ball for this and for other prospective projects to avail themselves of. Dev is currently unsure as to how to handle the implementation of the Knock spell in terms of Julian's original stated notions versus what most would expect from D&D in general and other cRPGs---hoping the Big-Time classic players will emerge and load him up with all the feedback that they can as it looks like some are starting to flicker onto the Bay12 topic for it in the Other Games board.
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Apr 9, 2014 14:06
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ExiledTinkerer posted:New Incursion is Getting Places: Oh, it's nice to see something happen to Incursion. I assumed that it was already dead.
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Apr 9, 2014 15:02
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