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eyebeem posted:This is nothing like a motorcycle, and won't be cross shopped with them. How is it not like a motorcycle? It looks to have less storage space than a touring bike, no climate control, no real safety equipment or cage, and probably be terrifying upon oversteer. Also you need an M on your license to drive it. The atom and X-bow have 4 wheels, and handle like a car. You can't convince me that a trike does. VVVVV Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 20:59
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HotCanadianChick posted:Since you apparently know a lot about these/are on the inside, can you give a reason why someone would get one of these instead of an actual motorcycle? If you just want a go fast track toy, there are several bikes making a lot more power than that thing (like 200 HP+: BMW S1000RR, Ninja ZX14) and weigh less, and are at least $5k cheaper. Since this thing is classed as a motorcycle, you'd need an endorsement and helmet to drive it, so you're basically paying more money for something that's slower and still has the same legal training/safety gear requirements. Why does anyone buy a car for the track at all then? Why does anyone buy an Atom or X-Bow? They feel safer inside a cage maybe? I'd never get on a bike, I would/did get in this. It was fun as hell. Helmets aren't required in all locales either. Some people like the open air feeling without the whole 'danger of falling, or getting knocked off, their ride and sliding for 300 yards on their rear end' aspect of driving. Twerk from Home posted:How is it not like a motorcycle? It looks to have less storage space than a touring bike, no climate control, no real safety equipment or cage, and probably be terrifying upon oversteer. Also you need an M on your license to drive it. Driving it feels nothing at all like a bike. Not one bit. Well, except that whole open air thing. It's got three pedals in the normal places, it has a steering wheel, and it does have some cage to it. As for the oversteer aspect, it's not terrifying at all. It was quite fun to let it step out a bit in the corners. Kill-9 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 21:01
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Twerk from Home posted:How is it not like a motorcycle? It looks to have less storage space than a touring bike, no climate control, no real safety equipment or cage, and probably be terrifying upon oversteer. Also you need an M on your license to drive it. A trike in this configuration is way closer to a car than any two-wheeled vehicle as far as how it handles though.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:03
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Twerk from Home posted:The atom and X-bow have 4 wheels, and handle like a car. You can't convince me that a trike does. It handles more like a car than a motorcycle, though.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:03
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Breakfast All Day posted:It handles more like a car than a motorcycle, though. If you could sit in it and didn't look at the rear end you'd think you were sitting in a 4-wheeler. It's that stable. It handles like a car. A very well balanced car. edit: P.S. I test drove a couple of the pre-production models on a road track 6 months ago down here in Texas. They could be dramatically different beasts now. They could be giant pieces of poo poo after the bean-counters got to them. Who knows. We weren't allowed to look under the hood then. Kill-9 fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 21:06
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Throatwarbler posted:Oh good, a backup camera, no bumping into telephone poles with the back of your head! I'm half surprised you didn't say that a VW 2.slow would be a better motor for it.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:32
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sudo rm -rf posted:Can you have a V8 and still call it an "ecoboost"? Isn't EcoBoost is just ford's name for their direct injection tech?
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Jul 28, 2014 21:57
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In news of cars with covers for the driver and places to put your luggage, it looks like the Scion xB will be replaced with something much more traditional. I once owned an xB, and it was a great car, but the model is getting long in the tooth and Toyota needs to offer a Corolla hatch of some sort over here in the States as that segment continues to grow. The Auris seems like a good choice.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:57
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Linux Nazi posted:Isn't EcoBoost is just ford's name for their direct injection tech? Ecoboost is their name for turbocharging, to make you picture efficiency and trees growing as you put the hammer down in your 400hp V6. An ecoboost V8 would be a monster, and apparently the Coyote 5.0 takes decently well to turbocharging. How much do you really need through, 550hp? 600?
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Jul 28, 2014 21:59
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Linux Nazi posted:Isn't EcoBoost is just ford's name for their direct injection tech? Direct Injection, turbos and some other tech.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:59
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Linux Nazi posted:Isn't EcoBoost is just ford's name for their direct injection tech? Turbocharging is the important part, but they also have DI. Most new engines, turbo or not, are DI at this point.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:59
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Twerk from Home posted:Ecoboost is their name for turbocharging, to make you picture efficiency and trees growing as you put the hammer down in your 400hp V6. An ecoboost V8 would be a monster, and apparently the Coyote 5.0 takes decently well to turbocharging. How much do you really need through, 550hp? 600? Ah, makes sense. The 3.8 V6 in my waifu's Hyundai is around 350HP from just being a seemingly well tuned NA DI motor. The FA20 seems to wring a lot of NA power for its size as well. I can't imagine what a 5-liter DI V8 with any amount of FI would do.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:05
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Mr. Wiggles posted:In news of cars with covers for the driver and places to put your luggage, it looks like the Scion xB will be replaced with something much more traditional. I once owned an xB, and it was a great car, but the model is getting long in the tooth and Toyota needs to offer a Corolla hatch of some sort over here in the States as that segment continues to grow. The Auris seems like a good choice. They sold a Corolla hatch in the US for many years. They stopped selling the Matrix because nobody bought them.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:06
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HotCanadianChick posted:Since you apparently know a lot about these/are on the inside, can you give a reason why someone would get one of these instead of an actual motorcycle? If you just want a go fast track toy, there are several bikes making a lot more power than that thing (like 200 HP+: BMW S1000RR, Ninja ZX14) and weighing much less (~500 lbs or less wet weight), and are at least $5k cheaper. Since this thing is classed as a motorcycle, you'd need an endorsement and helmet to drive it, so you're basically paying more money for something that's slower and still has the same legal training/safety gear requirements. I could see my dad buying one of these. He use to own a motorcycle, but sold it after he and my mom got married. He wants to be able to buy a toy, but doesn't want a motorcycle, because he'd like something that's a bit more stable if he decides to take my sister or my nephew out for a drive; they're too young to understand how to ride on the back of a motorcycle, and he'd rather not risk it anyways. Not sure how much safer this is than a motorbike, but at least you won't have anyone doing a Layer Dan in it.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:22
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Twerk from Home posted:How much do you really need through, 550hp? 600? At least seven hundred and eight.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:24
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For people who were wondering how much the aluminum body on the f-150 would raise the price.... $395
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Jul 28, 2014 22:26
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IOwnCalculus posted:At least seven hundred and eight. Ford HellTaurus, the 17 foot long muscle sedan.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:27
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Cream_Filling posted:They sold a Corolla hatch in the US for many years. They stopped selling the Matrix because nobody bought them. People bought them, just not enough. Hopefully that will change with this. I wouldn't mind seeing the Scion brand disappear, keeping the good cars in the States as just Toyotas. The no haggle pricing thing they do is pretty great, though.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:38
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Mr. Wiggles posted:People bought them, just not enough. Hopefully that will change with this. I wouldn't mind seeing the Scion brand disappear, keeping the good cars in the States as just Toyotas. The no haggle pricing thing they do is pretty great, though. The no haggle pricing makes them less competitive in huge metros where transaction prices are lower because there are 12 dealerships of each brand you can go to. I agree that the industry as a whole would be far better off with no-haggle pricing, but I don't see any way for it to happen.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:43
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IOwnCalculus posted:At least seven hundred and eight. What I'm talking about 
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Jul 28, 2014 22:47
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YF19pilot posted:I could see my dad buying one of these. He use to own a motorcycle, but sold it after he and my mom got married. He wants to be able to buy a toy, but doesn't want a motorcycle, because he'd like something that's a bit more stable if he decides to take my sister or my nephew out for a drive; they're too young to understand how to ride on the back of a motorcycle, and he'd rather not risk it anyways. Not sure how much safer this is than a motorbike, but at least you won't have anyone doing a Layer Dan in it. This is pretty much the target market for a Harley trike (or similar) which, and I'm no Harley man, seems to offer a lot more motorbike-like charms. I can see it appealing to people like Kill-9 that are terrified of motorcycles, but I can't see anyone looking for a motorcycling experience to look twice at these things, when a trike or a Can-am Spyder are available. Recognize it for what it is, a workaround to offer a street-legal go-karty car without loading it up with 1000lbs of mandatory safety equipment and crumple zones. Curious what sort of dealer network this is going to go through. Piggyback on Victory? Subaru? ATV dealers?
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Jul 28, 2014 22:57
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IOwnCalculus posted:At least seven hundred and eight. That new 2.7L Ecoboost V6 is tiny and the CGI block should be strong enough to handle a ridiculous amount of boost. 5.4L V12 Ecoboost. Do it, Ford.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:01
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Twerk from Home posted:The no haggle pricing makes them less competitive in huge metros where transaction prices are lower because there are 12 dealerships of each brand you can go to. I agree that the industry as a whole would be far better off with no-haggle pricing, but I don't see any way for it to happen. Sonic is supposedly rolling out a no-haggle single price approach to all their stores eventually: http://www.autonews.com/article/20140503/RETAIL07/305059984/sonic-plans-to-leave-haggling-far-behind I wish them success; it'll be interesting, anyway.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:12
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Wheeee posted:That new 2.7L Ecoboost V6 is tiny and the CGI block should be strong enough to handle a ridiculous amount of boost. the fuel economy of a V10 with the power of a jet turbine.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:15
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Cream_Filling posted:They sold a Corolla hatch in the US for many years. They stopped selling the Matrix because nobody bought them. I don't think they would have kept selling it and even brought production to 2 North American plants if no one bought them. No one bought them at the very end because no one was buying 9 year old cars with 4 speed autos in them anymore? If they bothered to update it I think it would have done better especially since it also offered AWD.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:31
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HotCanadianChick posted:Since you apparently know a lot about these/are on the inside, can you give a reason why someone would get one of these instead of an actual motorcycle? If you just want a go fast track toy, there are several bikes making a lot more power than that thing (like 200 HP+: BMW S1000RR, Ninja ZX14) and weighing much less (~500 lbs or less wet weight), and are at least $5k cheaper. Since this thing is classed as a motorcycle, you'd need an endorsement and helmet to drive it, so you're basically paying more money for something that's slower and still has the same legal training/safety gear requirements. I would never, ever buy an actual motorcyle. If I had a garage and lived A; near a track and B: somewhere where it's not as hot and humid for 4-6 months every year as it is here in DC, and C: had a garage to put it in, I would buy one of those.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:33
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drgitlin posted:I would never, ever buy an actual motorcyle. If I had a garage and lived A; near a track and B: somewhere where it's not as hot and humid for 4-6 months every year as it is here in DC, and C: had a garage to put it in, I would buy one of those. Yeah but motorcycles are fuuuuuunnnnnnnnn...............
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Jul 28, 2014 23:35
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The Matrix's fate was intertwined with the sister car Pontiac Vibe, which vanished with Pontiac, and the NUMMI deal, which went away shortly after. Sales numbers were perhaps irrelevant.Throatwarbler posted:No one bought them at the very end because no one was buying 9 year old cars with 4 speed autos in them anymore? Not sure if this holds up with Corolla sales as counter-evidence
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Jul 28, 2014 23:37
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drgitlin posted:I would never, ever buy an actual motorcyle. This is a particularly dumb and narrow minded attitude for any motorsports enthusiast. Particularly when for less than $5k you can buy a used bike that will keep up/blow by stuff like Ferraris handily.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:55
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HotCanadianChick posted:This is a particularly dumb and narrow minded attitude for any motorsports enthusiast. There's something to be said for never having to use the sentance "there was gravel on the road, so i won't be able to walk for 6 months".
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Jul 28, 2014 23:57
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HotCanadianChick posted:This is a particularly dumb and narrow minded attitude for any motorsports enthusiast. In my case it's not the price but the risk. 
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Jul 28, 2014 23:58
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Snowdens Secret posted:I can see it appealing to people like Kill-9 that are terrified of motorcycles... Never said I was terrified of bikes. I rode them plenty of times in my teens. After my stint as an EMT/biker-scraper-upper-and-transporter 25 years ago, I decided I no longer cared to ride. It might have been more clear if I said "I'd never get on a bike again". I still support those that ride. I have lots of friends that do. I even support their wanting to ride helmet-free, no matter how stupidly dangerous that is. It's just no longer for me.
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Jul 29, 2014 00:07
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Powershift posted:There's something to be said for never having to use the sentance "there was gravel on the road, so i won't be able to walk for 6 months". Residency Evil posted:In my case it's not the price but the risk. I said nothing about riding on the road. Lots of people have track-day only bikes that never see public roads (which, lets face it, is what most people would buy those trikes for). Also it helps if you actually learn to ride correctly instead of just being an uneducated squid who refuses to wear proper riding gear, which are the vast majority of fatalities and people picking gravel from their rear end.  Or to rephrase, it's dumb to just outright refuse to consider a bike at all, when for the price of one of those trikes new, you could get a used track bike, a full set of high end track-quality race leathers and gear, and a year's worth of track days/training courses/track slicks, AND a cheap pickup to haul your bike to the track with. e: Kill-9 posted:After my stint as an EMT/biker-scraper-upper-and-transporter 25 years ago, This is terrible and you should feel ashamed. If you spent time as an EMT, you drat well know that wearing a helmet dramatically reduces the chance of a fatality, and your willingness to just shrug your shoulders at people you consider friends riding without them is terrible. Militant Lesbian fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 00:20
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HotCanadianChick posted:I said nothing about riding on the road. Lots of people have track-day only bikes that never see public roads (which, lets face it, is what most people would buy those trikes for). But the organs can save the lives of 3-4 people who's brains are worth saving.
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Jul 29, 2014 00:38
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Powershift posted:But the organs can save the lives of 3-4 people who's brains are worth saving. Hmm, good point. I guess Darwin wins no matter what!
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Jul 29, 2014 00:40
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HotCanadianChick posted:This is a particularly dumb and narrow minded attitude for any motorsports enthusiast. I would be dead in a week. No thanks! Also, cars corner faster than bikes and I don't care about overtaking someone in a straight line. Well, it would be funny. But I'm serious, I wouldn't last a week.
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Jul 29, 2014 00:54
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HotCanadianChick posted:Or to rephrase, it's dumb to just outright refuse to consider a bike at all, when for the price of one of those trikes new, you could get a used track bike, a full set of high end track-quality race leathers and gear, and a year's worth of track days/training courses/track slicks, AND a cheap pickup to haul your bike to the track with. A dedicated track bike is completely different. We're talking about a vehicle which can go on streets and the track. I might be able to get talked into getting on a bike on a track. On a track everyone is headed in generally the same direction and most of the time you only have yourself to blame when things go wrong. quote:e: Terrible? Maybe. Ashamed? Nope. It's their brains and their life. It's not my place to enforce. If someone decides to not wear a helmet, it's very unlikely to harm anyone but themselves. Just like smoking. It's a stupid loving idea but I'm not going to go around telling my friends "don't loving smoke". I'm not their mommy. Back to talking about the car/bike/trike/whatever the gently caress you wanna call it. If you care, this is how I got a chance to drive them. I was contacted out of the blue by mail sometime around February I want to say. It was postcard from a survey company vaguely asking if I'd be interested in filling out a survey about a new, as yet unannounced, vehicle. I did some research online and it appeared they were a legit survey company so I logged on and answered a few questions. At the end it asked if I'd be interested in driving one. The survey had enough hints for me to make some guesses as to what type of vehicle it was so I said 'hell yeah'. They seemed interested in the fact that I had a Golf R registered in my name(it's actually my wife's). They said I had to show up with an insurance card proving I owned the R. I went down to the track on a cold early Spring day. The parking lot was filled with hot hatches of the 'testers'. FoST, FiST, Cooper S, Veloster, GTI, my wife's R, etc. I can only guess they pulled public records of that type of car owner. Maybe that's who they are targeting with this vehicle. Maybe they think we are familiar with more spirited driving. I really have no idea how they got our names. No one there did. The track was the Driveway outside Austin. It's a cool little private track near the airport. I've known about it for years but never actually been there. They had giant tractor trailers parked out front blocking any view of the track itself and the goodies hidden beyond. They checked our IDs, made sure we had no cameras, and led us out to the track. We were given a giant list of items to check. Everything from seating comfort to the glove box design. It was pretty thorough. I had some quibbles about the indicator stalk position and even more so the pedal placement was too far apart for easy heel-toeing for someone with smaller feet like mine. I demonstrated them to the surveying folks. That all took about an hour. Interestingly, we were not allowed to see under the hood. I asked what the power plant was and was told it was a domestic 4-cylinder but that was about all. My butt-dyno told me around 160-180HP which I think is spot on with what the press releases are now saying. We were then asked to try some slow speed maneuvering around the parking lot. This was to give us a feeling for the sight angles, turn radius, feel of the controls, and even to test the backup cameras. After that we were allowed to take the cars/trikes out on the full 'Grand Prix' circuit and we chased a guy in a tuned Charger. The Slingshot could accelerate, I'll say that. It was flat through the corners too. Down the back stretch I was nearing 100mph which was as fast as the 'chase' car was running. I was able to get it to step out on me in a couple places when the track was clear and it was very predictable. No surprise oversteer or anything. You'd think a single rear tire would have less grip but it held pretty well. After a few laps we went inside and talked. It was supposed to be like a casual 'round table' session. "What did you like? What didn't you like? What would you like to see changed? How about options? What do you think about its features at this price point?" Those kinds of things. All the while there were about 5-6 people off in the corner with laptops soaking up every word we said and trying to be as small as possible. I was more interested in them than the conversation. If something negative was said by a tester they'd kind of look at each other and frown a bit then write some more notes. Positive words made them nod and write too. It was fun to keep an eye on them in the corner of my vision. One older lady kept saying things like 'needs a roof and doors' and an obvious Harley type dude was more like 'it needs less stuff, needs to be more open'. I was more of the 'It's pretty good as-is. I would only make minor changes.' type. When I referenced the similarity in looks to an X-Bow every single person at the table looked at me like they didn't understand. I asked if they knew what an Ariel Atom was. Only one of the five knew. These people owned hot hatches but they weren't 'car' people. It was an interesting experience that I'd love to repeat. "Here thrash on this car and tell us what's wrong" is not something you get to do very often. When we were done, they handed us a crisp $100 bill and thanked us for our time. tldr: I got paid $100 to test drive a prototype trike. Kill-9 fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 02:31
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I don't want to seem like I'm slamming on this thing, but it doesn't seem any safer than the big two-person bikes in its price range, like the KTM 1190 Adventure R, which has cornering ABS, stability control, traction control etc. The only way you're crashing that thing is if you commit serious operator error, and that applies for any vehicle. Meanwhile it's got marginally more power for drat near three times the weight. And yeah, for track use, a cheap bike or the goon favorite of a stripped Miata all seem to make a lot more sense.
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Jul 29, 2014 02:48
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Snowdens Secret posted:I don't want to seem like I'm slamming on this thing, but it doesn't seem any safer than the big two-person bikes in its price range... I don't know how I ended up defending it. I'm saying I've driven them so I know a bit more about them. I'm not buying one. Not my thing. For my convertible action I prefer to cruise nice and slow in my T-Bird. The Slingshot was a hoot to drive but if I was looking for a dedicated track car I'd be looking at a stripped Miata or possibly a Mini or Fiat 500 before a Slingshot. I really don't think track cars are the intended market. I think it's aimed more at the aging Gen-Xers who want to feel the wind in their hair but not bother with the hassles of a bike.
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Jul 29, 2014 02:55
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Kill-9 posted:I think it's aimed more at the aging Gen-Xers who want to feel the wind in their hair but not bother with the hassles of a bike. I thought Harley had the "people who want to own a bike, but don't actually want to ride a bike" market sewn up. 
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Jul 29, 2014 03:04
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