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Broken Loose posted:Yeah, I totally remember Bright breaking into hysterics because he lost a fight. She cries for about ten seconds and as soon as they break onto her radio she wipes the tears off and goes back to being all business. That's not hysterics. You're just retarded. Broken Loose posted:No, it stops punching, pulls its arm back, and then starts randomly twitching. That's when she says it's the wrong response. Not it definitely is referring to the punching. You are really bad at watching a cartoon for children.
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Oct 3, 2014 17:14
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ImpAtom posted:Isn't NotChar just Luin? If anything, Luin is a NotQuattro or a NotHarry. He hopefully will be a cool guy and won't be a total pawn of Space Pope and Military R&D guy. I also liked the shot of those two with Drill Instructor No Fun in the opera house in episode 2. It's like if Jamitov, Bask Om, and Jerid all posed together in the second episode of Zeta.
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Oct 3, 2014 17:14
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Literally The Worst posted:Not it definitely is referring to the punching. You are really bad at watching a cartoon for children. Broken loose is dumb and wrong about everything else in this fight but he has this correct, its when G-Self stops punching Bellri's Recten that Aida mentions it. It's part of how generally G-self refuses to attack Bellri directly which is the only reason she loses.
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Oct 3, 2014 17:19
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Broken Loose posted:Yeah, I totally remember Bright breaking into hysterics because he lost a fight. Well, I remember the time he had a nervous breakdown because his 15 year old subordinate stopped listening to him, such that he had to be confined to quarters for a few episodes. Does that count?
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Oct 3, 2014 18:14
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...So I actually forgot to watch the second episode yesterday. Its a weird thing, but I feel like the episode handles its piecemeal exposition better than the first episode, even with the obvious anti-exposition cut. Possibly because there's an actual setting to (briefly) explore, rather than a space elevator travelling the upper atmosphere. I like that Bell briefly freaks out at what an ageing, non-future tech castle looks like, though it does seem a bit off to keep in use. Plot-wise though, I think there's two major things at work. First, is a reverse of the typical Gundam setting, wherein its those in space who currently benefit more than those on Earth, since they're able to pull their energy requirements out of the ionosphere, but those on Earth (presumably including the nation of Ameria) can't, but they also can't get solar panels to provide power because the Capital is able to block it for whatever reason. And I mean, it is over a thousand years into the future, so I can see oil reserves and such having kinda run dry by that point. The second is that this seems to be more building up to a conflict, rather than diving straight into one. The 'pirates' might well be closer to privateers in terms of function - the likes of Ameria is able to write it off as just the work of some lowlives, but in reality condones - if not supports - their actions because hey, its to Ameria's benefit and the Capital's detriment. That or the pirates are a bunch of legit defectors who kept their suits from their time in the armed forces. In any case, the G-Self was probably an asset they stole in the hopes of using it as their one man army unit, except, well, Bell and the Iris Sign happened. Meanwhile the Capital recently created an army distinct from the presumably more defense based Capital Guard, with existing members of the Capital Guard not even wholly sure on why the new group was created. And well, if you've already got a defensive force, the main purpose of an army would be to have an aggressive one...
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Oct 3, 2014 18:17
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e: ^^ See, I wish those little details would make up for the gimping, but while they make the setting somewhat more interesting they doesn't don't make up enough to interest me. As someone who's never watched a Gundam before and only know a little more than the bare minimum about the franchise, this left me feeling... confused. The animation, old-school feel (including sound design), and ridiculously stringent attention to detail make it a really neat visual experience. But at the same time it's intentionally trying to leave us feeling out of the loop in some bizarre attempt at reverse dramatic irony; the characters are being told what's up, but we're being obviously excluded from it. Is there some Tomino in-joke here I'm not getting, because it's really not amusing. It makes what could be a really fun, interesting show aggressively boring despite the visuals. So I don't know what to think now. I can appreciate it, but it's feels like its not even trying to grab my attention; it's like the show wants you to watch for no other reason than its being a Gundam show, and is trying its damnedest to make that the only reason by intentionally alienating anyone else. Like me. If this doesn't change next episode, I'll just leave assuming the rest of the show will be more of the same: fascinating, colorful visuals portraying an intentionally gimped story. ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 18:24
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A lot of Gundam fans are also feeling alienated by it too, it's not just folks who haven't seen anything Gundam before. And heck, Tomino went as far as to say that Gundam fans would not enjoy the show  (Though as a dude who generally enjoys Tomino's directing, I am loving it) There were some really good posts earlier in the thread about what's going on in the show. There are a lot of little details that are easy to overlook due to the frantic pace but they reveal quite a bit of info.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:30
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Honestly, I agree with Broken Loose. You can't really justify problematic stuff with in universe arguments. The depiction of girls so far has been really misogynistic and "She would have won the fight if not for plot reasons" doesn't excuse that she lost, immediately started crying, lost her Mobile Suit to a man, and then ends up crying two more episodes in a row. The writers chose to do this and make the prominent girls hysterical, brain damaged and hysterical, clingy and in love with the hero, or the hero's mother.ViggyNash posted:But at the same time it's intentionally trying to leave us feeling out of the loop in some bizarre attempt at reverse dramatic irony; the characters are being told what's up, but we're being obviously excluded from it. Is there some Tomino in-joke here I'm not getting, because it's really not amusing. It makes what could be a really fun, interesting show aggressively boring despite the visuals. It feels like Tomino is going out of his way to keep it from getting mainstream interest, despite the fact that it wasn't even originally a Gundam show and is profiting mostly off that retool. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 18:31
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Tomino likes dropping into a story without much exposition and just letting it play out until you understand the world by the end. Personally I prefer that method, where the characters dont expound on things for the benefit of the audience, but when it would make sense for them to be discussing it internally. This one is way more straightforward then like Gainer's first episode was though, Kuntala not withstanding.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:32
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WickedHate posted:Honestly, I agree with Broken Loose. You can't really justify problematic stuff with in universe arguments. The depiction of girls so far has been really misogynistic and "She would have won the fight if not for plot reasons" doesn't excuse that she lost, immediately started crying, lost her Mobile Suit to a man, and then ends up crying two more episodes in a row. The writers chose to do this and make the prominent girls hysterical, brain damaged and hysterical, clingy and in love with the hero, or the hero's mother. Crying for ten seconds before going "yeah gently caress this" and telling the guys who captured you to gently caress off: Being hysterical. Come on.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:34
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Literally The Worst posted:Crying for ten seconds before going "yeah gently caress this" and telling the guys who captured you to gently caress off: Being hysterical. That specific instance wasn't being hysterical, and if it was that one time it wouldn't matter(though she still had to lose the Gundam to the Proper Man Protagonist).
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Oct 3, 2014 18:35
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Sharkopath posted:Tomino likes dropping into a story without much exposition and just letting it play out until you understand the world by the end. Personally I prefer that method, where the characters dont expound on things for the benefit of the audience, but when it would make sense for them to be discussing it internally. Yeah exactly. I dig it because most of the time the characters are speaking for their own benefit and not for the benefit of the audience. Which kinda feels rare in anime these days! WickedHate posted:That specific instance wasn't being hysterical, and if it was that one time it wouldn't matter(though she still had to lose the Gundam to the Proper Man Protagonist). And that other time she cried is as legit a reason to cry as it gets.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:38
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Srice posted:And that other time she cried is as legit a reason to cry as it gets. WickedHate posted:You can't really justify problematic stuff with in universe arguments. You realize this is not a historical log of things that actually happened? People consciously assembled these events and the situations to make these characters act this way.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:44
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Srice posted:Yeah exactly. I dig it because most of the time the characters are speaking for their own benefit and not for the benefit of the audience. Which kinda feels rare in anime these days! While it's great for verisimilitude, there's pretty clear reason dialogue is usually written with the audience in mind. ...although, personally, I love it.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:45
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Not having read anything beyond tomino interviews about the themes, barring hail mary twists, I really don't think the world in this show is all that obtuse: The capital directly controls the space elevator, the capital is not the only nation on the planet and views rival nations with outright fear and hostility. Other nations seem to have a legitimate greivance against the capital, and there's some resource shortage at play, probably energy, maybe more. It seems to be aristocratic in nature, with an entrenched religious class that seems to share power with the other aspects of government. Probably tyrannical as hell. There seems to be some form of outright racism or classism or something with whatever Kuntala is, we'll find out at some point. Bell is totally gonna become a space pirate, and the space pirates themselves are like a foreign funded and supplied insurgency group acting against the interests and well being of the capital. That's about it, it's a way more gundam setup than honestly I was expecting.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:47
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I think this is off to a pretty poor start. It looks great but the story is just flat plotting and lazy characterization. I don't think the lack of exposition or plot reveals is the real issue, it's mostly that the pacing doesn't leave any room for the characters to establish themselves and the main cast doesn't appear to have needs or goals that drive the events forward, stuff is just kind of happening around them and we're already leaning on ~Newtype Bullshit~. Maybe Tomino's just trying to fast-forward through the establishing of the setting and characters will assert themselves later on, but it's a pretty weak entry point.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:47
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WickedHate posted:You realize this is not a historical log of things that actually happened? People consciously assembled these events and the situations to make these characters act this way. Y....yes? They consciously decided to show a character crying when a person they cared about died in front of them. I'm not seeing a problem with that? It's not exactly like that's an uncommon sort of thing to write! Context is important. Heck the previous page gave examples of dudes in Gundam shows crying over the very same thing.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:47
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I think you could still set things up a bit better though. Like the Gundamjack at the start of the first episode - cutting into that where they did, from the opening, doesn't really transition well. I mean, you don't have to show the exact start of it, but a nice establishing shot would have done more to ease viewers in. But hey, could also just be having to get back in the swing of writing for TV again after a while. We'll see how the series goes. Edit: The exposition and such, I mean.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:48
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WickedHate posted:You realize this is not a historical log of things that actually happened? People consciously assembled these events and the situations to make these characters act this way. So your argument is that women should never cry in fiction with (x time frame) of a previous time they cried or it is misogynistic no matter the context. Like, seriously, I'm hyper-sensitive to this stuff (and I think Monday is kind of legitimately awful so far) but it is not inherently 'feminine weakness' for a character to cry over the death of someone important to them and the argument of "well, it is a constructed show" doesn't change the fact that this isn't an uncommon thing for both male and female characters. If she continues to perform badly and be crappy and have no agency I'll be right onboard with the complaints but leaping from 0 to "hates women" is a bit much. I'm also not saying the show is flawless. (The cheerleader squad is weird, Monday is pretty bad so far, and the rear end-shooting scene was eyerolling) but still. Astro Nut posted:I think you could still set things up a bit better though. Like the Gundamjack at the start of the first episode - cutting into that where they did, from the opening, doesn't really transition well. I mean, you don't have to show the exact start of it, but a nice establishing shot would have done more to ease viewers in. The directing feels really disjointed, even for Tomino. I didn't feel remotely the same way after Gainer or Turn-A as I did after G-Reco. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 18:48
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There's also the idea that the Capital Guard and Army are separate institutions, one civilian and very unprofessional, and it shares that concept with Turn A Gundam.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:49
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Sharkopath posted:There's also the idea that the Capital Guard and Army are separate institutions, one civilian and very unprofessional, and it shares that concept with Turn A Gundam. Another thing shared with Turn A Gundam is that Ameria is also a country name in Turn A Gundam. Considering the time difference between the two settings I'm sure it's just a neat little nod towards Turn A rather than something that's going to come up as a direct link between the two, but that's cool nonetheless.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:50
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Ultimate Hail Mary Conjecture: It's a direct prequel to Turn A and in the final scene the bunny ears slide down to become a mustache and the moonlight butterfly gets activated, smashcut to black.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:55
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ImpAtom posted:So your argument is that women should never cry in fiction with (x time frame) of a previous time they cried or it is misogynistic no matter the context. I'm just saying, crying three episodes in a row, plus the other stuff, is pretty suspect.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:55
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she apparently failed in a pretty important mission and got captured i'd be pretty bummed too. i mean i guess she could be 100% stoic about it but she also seems to be a teenager
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Oct 3, 2014 18:57
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WickedHate posted:I'm just saying, crying three episodes in a row, plus the other stuff, is pretty suspect. Perhaps she is crying next episode for the same reason she is crying this episode?
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Oct 3, 2014 18:59
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I don't want to get dragged into the semantics but given that almost all the women we're introduced to with any agency so far either fail at their job and are rescued/protected by a man or are literal cheerleaders I don't think it's unreasonable to say this show has issues with women so far.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:59
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Sharkopath posted:Ultimate Hail Mary Conjecture: It's a direct prequel to Turn A and in the final scene the bunny ears slide down to become a mustache and the moonlight butterfly gets activated, smashcut to black. I think I'd enjoy it if they did it in a way that doesn't wink at the audience about it. Maybe just implying that the crazy tech for the Turn A is being worked on and leaving it up in the air as to what that could mean. WickedHate posted:I'm just saying, crying three episodes in a row, plus the other stuff, is pretty suspect. We don't even know the context for what's going on in next week's episode.
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Oct 3, 2014 18:59
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WickedHate posted:You realize this is not a historical log of things that actually happened? People consciously assembled these events and the situations to make these characters act this way. After watching the episodes, I guess the whole feminist angle was someone's idea of a joke because women are cheerleaders and boys are soldiers and the one deviant element from that has both her suit and agency stolen from her by the male protagonist and the plot. Some of the mecha designs are really nice, though.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:00
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Koopa Kid posted:I don't want to get dragged into the semantics but given that almost all the women we're introduced to with any agency so far either fail at their job and are rescued/protected by a man or are literal cheerleaders I don't think it's unreasonable to say this show has issues with women so far. Nobody is saying it doesn't. It is the fact that the argument is focused around "crying is bad" which is what makes it kinda worthless.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:02
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the cheerleaders seem pretty competent though, but yeah it's pretty funny that two women got their gundam stolen from them, though in raraiya's case it seems like she just bailed as soon as poo poo looked bad, leading to her own brain damage
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Oct 3, 2014 19:02
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Srice posted:We don't even know the context for what's going on in next week's episode. And in universe arguments still don't matter. If she had a beloved family member beheaded in every episode, it'd still suck if all she did was cry. ImpAtom posted:Nobody is saying it doesn't. It is the fact that the argument is focused around "crying is bad" which is what makes it kinda worthless. That's not what the "this show is sexist so far" argument is focused around, it's one of multiple complaints and people just keep getting hung up on that one.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:03
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Potsticker posted:After watching the episodes, I guess the whole feminist angle was someone's idea of a joke because women are cheerleaders and boys are soldiers and the one deviant element from that has both her suit and agency stolen from her by the male protagonist and the plot. Or maybe the feminist angle is just something that becomes more prominent as the story develops. I think it's dumb to write something off like that when We're not even 5% of the way into it, yet.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:03
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muike posted:the cheerleaders seem pretty competent though, but yeah it's pretty funny that two women got their gundam stolen from them, though in raraiya's case it seems like she just bailed as soon as poo poo looked bad, leading to her own brain damage She was prepared enough to have that suit, but not a helmet or pxygen? 
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Oct 3, 2014 19:04
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ImpAtom posted:Nobody is saying it doesn't. It is the fact that the argument is focused around "crying is bad" which is what makes it kinda worthless. I understand what you're saying but Aida is crying. Potsticker posted:She was prepared enough to have that suit, but not a helmet or pxygen? I know, right. Maybe she thought the power of flying squirrels would possess her and empower her
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Oct 3, 2014 19:05
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Sharkopath posted:Or maybe the feminist angle is just something that becomes more prominent as the story develops. Yeah there are some Tomino shows with some well written women in it. And a lot of those examples weren't fleshed out in the very first episode too. I'm down with giving him the benefit of the doubt since when he does it right it's certainly better than most anime these days. If something happens that makes me change my mind, then ah well, 'least he tried.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:08
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I must admit that this is the sort of thing I expected when I heard they were intentionally trying to make the show more feminist: In her defense, Manny seems pretty reasonable so far for a Gundam character. Sharkopath posted:Or maybe the feminist angle is just something that becomes more prominent as the story develops. Kind of hoping this turns out to be the case, however.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:10
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I actually kinda wish the flying suit was standard pilot wear in this setting. I mean, given how rarely mobile suits have any form of escape pod, some way to bail whilst fighting in mid-air would be kinda useful. Otherwise, I'll play devil's advocate a bit and say the show isn't off to the best start, but that here's hoping Aida will get back to a mobile suit soon enough to be able to do something. Like, I can understand the context for the situations in the first two (possibly three) episodes, but I wouldn't want it to become too much of a trend. Plus hopefully Bell's mother isn't shoved into a capsule.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:11
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Sharkopath posted:Or maybe the feminist angle is just something that becomes more prominent as the story develops. I'm not writing it off, yet. If it turns out Captain Charbroiled's death serves as the springboard for Aida to vault from useless love interest for a guy she neither knows nor cares for to an actual character then I will be elated.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:11
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John Carstairs posted:I must admit that this is the sort of thing I expected when I heard they were intentionally trying to make the show more feminist: My favorite bit about that part was that I totally expected her to gently caress it up but she NAILED that poo poo
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Oct 3, 2014 19:11
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muike posted:My favorite bit about that part was that I totally expected her to gently caress it up but she NAILED that poo poo Yeah, I got a bit of a sinking feeling before they came back down as well.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:12
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