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22 Eargesplitten posted:My eventual goal is to do software development. Right now I'm going to school for it while I work, but I'm wondering: Is there a way into that field through IT work without a degree? The standard advice is to get yourself a github or bitbucket account and start coding. Make little utilities that do something useful or cool, and put them on there. It doesn't matter that someone else has already made a utility that does <thing>, the point is to get functional code out there that you can show off. Keep it simple; your programs don't have to do everything, they just have to do something. If you're doing mobile development, get something published on an official app store. If you're doing web dev, get something published that people can actually go to with their web browsers (github in particular has free simple page hosting directly from repositories, I've never used it but it seems very convenient). You can also contribute to open source projects. Go to github, find a project that looks interesting, browse the low-priority issues for something you think you can handle, and work on it. If you solve the issue, make a pull request and hope it gets accepted into the official repo. The goal is to get some code out there that you can point to and say, "I did this, I can actually code, see?" It doesn't have to be beautiful, it just has to prove you can loop and branch and bugfix and solve problems. It also helps if you can talk about it, why you did things this or that way (even though at first most of your answers to that question are likely to be, "This is the first thing that worked"). Then, start applying for entry level dev jobs.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:04
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22 Eargesplitten posted:My eventual goal is to do software development. Right now I'm going to school for it while I work, but I'm wondering: Is there a way into that field through IT work without a degree? Build a portfolio, is probably the best way to get into development without a degree. Hell, it's probably the best way with a degree.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:08
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Inspector_666 posted:Build a portfolio, is probably the best way to get into development without a degree. Hell, it's probably the best way with a degree. 
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Mar 24, 2015 00:36
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Inspector_666 posted:Build a portfolio, is probably the best way to get into development without a degree. Hell, it's probably the best way with a degree. what if my ideas are bad and my understanding of code worse  ?
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Mar 24, 2015 02:05
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Another help desk guy is leaving for another job. If the salary was...20% higher (it's super low, so it's not as much as it sounds) , I'm guessing we'd get better help desk people and keep them longer. I know this isn't unique to my company by a long shot. I'm just not sure I understand the thought process. In other news, my supervisor continues to not do his job. He didn't show up today, as happens about once a week. It's a joke.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:14
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Helpdesk isn't a position that's supposed to keep good people. e: And yes, I know that we have good helpdesk people posting in this thread. Notice how all of them are constantly looking for ways to move into junior admin positions.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:43
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Inspector_666 posted:Build a portfolio, is probably the best way to get into development without a degree. Hell, it's probably the best way with a degree. Are there any languages not to bother coding in? I've got a lovely java game I made for the 30 day game thing back in July. I've got a runtime error that I'm pretty sure is related to the file paths, I was having trouble with those. Maybe I'll post some questions in the Java thread and try to fix it. I'm also planning on grabbing a copy of Powershell in a Month of Lunches. Should I put the script I'm planning on making in that up as well? I know scripting and application development are pretty different.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:43
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psydude posted:Helpdesk isn't a position that's supposed to keep good people. Yeah I know, and that wasn't even my main point. The last help desk guy that left did so after two months (or possibly 3). He left for another help desk job.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:46
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Are there any languages not to bother coding in? I've got a lovely java game I made for the 30 day game thing back in July. I've got a runtime error that I'm pretty sure is related to the file paths, I was having trouble with those. Maybe I'll post some questions in the Java thread and try to fix it. Yes, but Java isn't one of them.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:46
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Yeah, sorry. I was asking that more about Powershell, and then got distracted by my Java thing. I've also got a C++ semester project I did that I'm pretty proud of I might as well put up there. I need to go through it, since it didn't work on a newer compiler than VS 2008, but once I've figured out what conventions changed since then I'll put it up. Of course, that whole thing was pretty much me attempting to independently discover Djikstra's algorithm. I'm hoping that it's different enough to be worth mentioning, but I haven't looked at it closely enough to know for sure. Is there a .Net framework in a month of lunches type thing? I know C# is the hot thing right now, and I've heard it's kind of like the baby of C++ and Java, so I should be able to pick it up pretty quickly. Not so sure about ASP.NET or whatever the other main language is I'm forgetting about. Is there a working in Software Development thread for me to put this sort of thing in? I think I looked through and didn't see one last year.
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Mar 24, 2015 03:11
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Chickenwalker posted:Is OpenDNS worth a drat? Anybody use it? How easy is it to add a domain to your whitelist with their business level offering and how long does it take to kick in? We use this and it has measurably reduced the amount of time spent on malware removal and reimaging. We do not block any groups other than the malware related ones. The changes are easy to make on a windows server so everything in the office is covered and problematic users can have the agent installed that uses opendns servers while out of the office. For an msp perspective it is easy to manage all of our clients in one place.
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Mar 24, 2015 03:13
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I'm also planning on grabbing a copy of Powershell in a Month of Lunches. Should I put the script I'm planning on making in that up as well? I know scripting and application development are pretty different. Yeah, why not? I actually made a GitHub account with the thoughts of throwing my poo poo up there just to learn two things at once, and scripts are usually useful for other people.
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Mar 24, 2015 04:34
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Yeah, sorry. I was asking that more about Powershell, and then got distracted by my Java thing. I've also got a C++ semester project I did that I'm pretty proud of I might as well put up there. I need to go through it, since it didn't work on a newer compiler than VS 2008, but once I've figured out what conventions changed since then I'll put it up. Disclaimer: I am not a dev so this is not my first hand experience, just what I've seen and talked about with developers that I work with. Also apparently I have more feels about this than I knew when I started typing, and this turned into kind of a rant. So sorry about that  You asked before whether you can get into software dev via IT, and the two questions kinda go together. TLDR I don't think so. Having some experience with system administration will make you a much better developer because you have a deeper understanding of how your code interacts with the operating system and application server. But there are tens of thousands of programmers out there who have landed jobs and are cranking out code with zero knowledge of the underlying system. The IT threads in SH/SC are littered with stories of how devs are notoriously the worst users to support*. Don't expect a company hiring you to code to care that you've paid your dues on the help desk . They only care about whether you know how to program and understand the tools of the trade like source control, testing frameworks, continuous integration/delivery etc. Creating or contributing to an open source project is GREAT advice. Pure systems scripting languages like PowerShell or Bash are not what a hiring manager wants to see from a software engineer. They're useful tools to know, but not what you will be using for full-blown application development. You'll want to be proficient in at least one "real" language, and able to limp along in at least one more. Proficient meaning if they ask you at the interview to write a nontrivial program on a whiteboard with a marker, you could do it with minimal mistakes. And speak intelligently about why you used the algorithms, data structures and libraries you did and what tradeoffs that involved. As long as you don't pick something totally obscure, it doesn't matter as much which language you work with best. The fact that you can write quality code in one language is the biggest thing companies will be looking for. If you can get down with one each of a compiled, statically typed language (C++/Java/C#) and an interpreted, dynamically typed language (Python, Ruby, PHP), you'll be in great shape to jump in on any project and get up to speed quickly. For bonus points, check out "Go" from Google, which is a very modern, crazy rear end hybrid of all of the above that's gaining popularity. *This is often actually IT/Ops' own drat fault for not using something like Vagrant and/or Docker to make everyone's lives easier. But that's another topic. Docjowles fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 04:50
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Alder posted:what if my ideas are bad and my understanding of code worse Doesn't matter if your ideas are bad or good, other people have had them before. Make an RPN calculator, make a program that takes screenshots of an area, make a program that parses some kind of text file. You won't make any of them better than the thousand other programs that are out there already that do those things, but as I said that's not the point. If your understanding of code is bad, improve that. But I've said it a dozen times in these threads, don't just wait until you think you are good enough at coding to start applying to coding jobs, because that's a state you'll never get to. The more you learn about programming, the more you learn about what you still need to learn, and it just keeps mushrooming. Get over it. Make something that works, anything. Do it a few times. Congratulations, you're an entry level programmer.
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Mar 24, 2015 04:56
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Yeah, sorry. I was asking that more about Powershell, and then got distracted by my Java thing. I've also got a C++ semester project I did that I'm pretty proud of I might as well put up there. I need to go through it, since it didn't work on a newer compiler than VS 2008, but once I've figured out what conventions changed since then I'll put it up. Honestly the only languages you shouldn't bother learning at all are long dead languages like ALGOL or super niche languages like OCaml.
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Mar 24, 2015 05:23
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Due to on call I am now going to sleep in the AM and waking up in the PM. I cant think of a way to resolve it other than staying up for 24 hours straight on purpose to try and correct it.
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Mar 24, 2015 05:53
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That's how I always do it - no way to make the day shorter but it can always be longer. Like if I need to switch to night shift right now, I stay up until about 4am, anyone can do that without too much discomfort, then I sleep until like 2pm because I'm always behind on sleep so I welcome the catch up, then I'm up at 2pm and boom, night shift. Reverse as needed.
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Mar 24, 2015 05:59
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Melatonin. Only way I can switch back and forth somewhat naturally. The other case is getting blackout drunk.
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Mar 24, 2015 06:01
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jaegerx posted:Melatonin. Only way I can switch back and forth somewhat naturally. The other case is getting blackout drunk.
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Mar 24, 2015 06:07
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insidius posted:Due to on call I am now going to sleep in the AM and waking up in the PM. I cant think of a way to resolve it other than So this is a short term thing, not a long-term, right? If it's long-term, I can write up a spergpost based on what my sleep specialist doctor told me.
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Mar 24, 2015 06:14
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22 Eargesplitten posted:My eventual goal is to do software development. Right now I'm going to school for it while I work, but I'm wondering: Is there a way into that field through IT work without a degree? Development is a skill. I moved from operations into systems administration into systems engineering into development. I got a degree in history. Last May. After 7 years in the industry. Scripting (and programming) help basically every IT role. Get a job. Learn to script. Start automating common tasks. Then start automating less common tasks. Then automate your whole job. By that point, you'll be abstracted enough that a move to development won't be a huge leap, because you're already used to thinking about your problems formally, building reusable tooling from common languages, etc. It's definitely a thing you can do. Whether you actually want to do it without actually having done it before is a different question. Do you really enjoy programming? Large problems? Are you ok working on the same project for months or years, and no others, as a team (admins and engineers tend to work more diverse stuff and more independently, in the sense that 1-2 representatives from the engineering team handle their component of a large project while others are on others and even more engineers are handling the team's daily/future bits though that varies a lot)? You may find that what you enjoy isn't what you think you like right now. It may be. But be flexible. Take some cheap classes, and do a little scripting at work before you go full bore on an expensive degree. E: was phoneposting, missed a whole page. Alder posted:what if my ideas are bad and my understanding of code worse Most of the time (as a junior dev and sometimes mid-level), you're implementing someone else's big picture, so your ideas are irrelevant except as they relate to the big idea you're actually coding. Your understanding of code can be improved by writing code. Figure out something you want done and write a program that does it. Or do project euler, though the interest level solving math problems holds is low for many people. 22 Eargesplitten posted:Are there any languages not to bother coding in? I've got a lovely java game I made for the 30 day game thing back in July. I've got a runtime error that I'm pretty sure is related to the file paths, I was having trouble with those. Maybe I'll post some questions in the Java thread and try to fix it. Docjowles got it, but: Don't bother with Powershell or shell or other "scripting" bits if you want to be a developer. In general, if you can't find a widely-used web framework in it, it's not a language that makes you a "developer". The scripting bits are incredibly useful for build automation and other pieces, but they're not your bread-and-butter. Powershell can use .NET stuff pretty easily, so that's good if you learn C# or F# or whatever other .NET language. Scripting and app dev are "really different" in terms of scope (where "scripting" tends to be relatively small programs that glue together stuff somebody else wrote). The logic in the code is very similar, but the patterns are different. 22 Eargesplitten posted:Yeah, sorry. I was asking that more about Powershell, and then got distracted by my Java thing. I've also got a C++ semester project I did that I'm pretty proud of I might as well put up there. I need to go through it, since it didn't work on a newer compiler than VS 2008, but once I've figured out what conventions changed since then I'll put it up. Bluntly, don't bother with C++ in 2015. Or C. C# has been the "hot thing" on Windows for a long time. But Python is also hot. And PHP. And Java. And java framework languages (Clojure, etc). But a lot changes in a few years. Learn concepts, not languages. The languages teach you principles which are broadly applicable (not a lot goes between Lisp and C, but a lot of lambdas and functional programming parts from C# can be conceptually used in other languages). C# is/was basically a straight clone of Java in its initial incarnation. It is nothing like C++, except that it's a compiled, object-oriented, statically typed language. But so are a lot of others. For .NET, it's enormous, and you need to decide eventually whether to do backend stuff, web dev, business application development, etc. For now, if C# is the language you want to start with, focus on doing basic tasks with it. Maybe pick up a highly rated book on it from Amazon. "Programming C#" would be a good one. There are career threads in the Caverns of Cobol, but reader beware. The board culture there is stronger than SH/SC, and somewhat worse. There's a lot of great info, but it is chock full of "I make 250k, and if you aren't working at one of the Big Four, you shouldn't even bother" shitposting. Don't take any of the career advice there seriously, though the development advice is good. Nintendo Kid posted:Honestly the only languages you shouldn't bother learning at all are long dead languages like ALGOL or super niche languages like OCaml. You also shouldn't bother learning C or C++, as noted above. You should learn Rust or Go instead. I'll give a longer explanation if anyone agrees. Similarly, don't learn Perl. Or VB(.NET). OCaml is great. There are even some critical parts of Linux's virtualization support in Ocaml. Just don't expect it to be professionally useful unless you want to be an F# dev, since F# is firmly an ML language and is extremely similar. But Erlang is the "cool" functional language with Scala and Clojure close behind, if you're into that. Still, learning Lisp or Forth or Ocaml can teach you entirely different ways to solve problems, which are more useful as time goes on and functional paradigms make into "normal" procedural languages. evol262 fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 06:37
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I did most of an AS in CS at a community college before I transferred to a university, which didn't work out. I did all of the courses the CC offered except for C, that was a class only offered once every two years, and I transferred before it was available again. I guess one thing I should ask since I've got someone in the field to talk to is this: At my community college, we were given a problem, and told to solve it. Usually using a concept we'd just learned in some aspect of the program. At university, we were given the skeleton of a program and told to fill in the blanks with a lot of specifics. I'm not talking just "We need these variables with setters and getters so that the hypothetical other programmers can use them," I'm talking basically having to get inside the teacher's head and figure out exactly how they wanted you to do it. I guess maybe it was to get you used to best practices in relation to runtime or things like that, but it really sucked. I had a much harder time with that class than when I was given a problem and told to go at it. Even at the CC, we were graded on commenting, we were told that we needed certain variables and functions for outside access, so it's not like they weren't training us to work with other programmers. We even did team assignments. I'm assuming that professional coding would be closer to what we saw in the community college. Am I wrong? Or does it depend on whether you're writing the program or revising code someone else already wrote? For what it's worth, when I was at community college, or when I was working on that java game, I would bury myself in it for entire afternoons. I love doing it, it is more satisfying than anything I do at my current job. I just want to make sure I'm not falling in love with the parts that don't translate to actual work. Docjowles posted:As long as you don't pick something totally obscure, it doesn't matter as much which language you work with best. The fact that you can write quality code in one language is the biggest thing companies will be looking for. If you can get down with one each of a compiled, statically typed language (C++/Java/C#) and an interpreted, dynamically typed language (Python, Ruby, PHP), you'll be in great shape to jump in on any project and get up to speed quickly. For bonus points, check out "Go" from Google, which is a very modern, crazy rear end hybrid of all of the above that's gaining popularity. So I guess for now I should focus on Python or Ruby instead of Powershell? Am I right in assuming that I can set up scripts in those languages to run in windows task scheduler like I could a powershell script?
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Mar 24, 2015 06:55
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I always volunteer for night shifts. Generally desktop isn't expected to do poo poo all night and I can just veg out. They are always light duty and I have no problem staying awake (the opposite in fact, I can't sleep outside of a bed no matter what, I've tried). When I'm on night shift desktop is always just being used as a reserve army, so basically I'm just a warm body. And that sweet OT 
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Mar 24, 2015 07:01
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I did most of an AS in CS at a community college before I transferred to a university, which didn't work out. I did all of the courses the CC offered except for C, that was a class only offered once every two years, and I transferred before it was available again. I guess one thing I should ask since I've got someone in the field to talk to is this: As a professional developer, you are almost never working alone, and your code needs to be readable if you get hit by a bus or you quit or they hire a new guy and he needs to fix a bug that lives in code you wrote. It should be "standard". There's room for creativity in algorithmic design, but things like getters/setters are "boilerplate" that you need to do. 22 Eargesplitten posted:So I guess for now I should focus on Python or Ruby instead of Powershell? Am I right in assuming that I can set up scripts in those languages to run in windows task scheduler like I could a powershell script? You should learn C# if you want to write apps for Windows. IronPython is a thing, as is ActiveState whatever. Python's cross-platform support is getting better and better, and you can register all of these in the Windows scripting host. But you can "script" in C#. Don't learn tools that require additional tools. It should already be there. On Linux, Python almost always is. Ruby is increasingly there, for Puppet/Chef. These are almost never present on Windows. .NET is always there. Powershell is always there on new versions of Windows. If you want to pick a scripting-ish language that works on Windows (it works everywhere, and is almost never the "best" tool for the job but it's reasonable for almost everything), pick Javascript.
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Mar 24, 2015 07:04
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Well, yeah. Most of my community college classes were in C++, but it's been a few years so mine is rusty. But we learned to set all our variables to zero at declaration, declare at the beginning of the function when possible, use setters and getters (it's been long enough since my OO C++ that I don't remember if that's a thing in C++), prototype functions, all that sort of stuff. My problem with the university wasn't that my code had to be readable. Actually, readability was more emphasized at the community college. At university, they had automated testing of your programs. At the CC, our teacher actually read through our assignments, graded us on commenting, readability, and all of that. The main time where my code seemed to be unreadable was when I was trying to write a shortest path algorithm. Which was probably pretty messy as a second-year student. She thought I was doing a greedy sort, but I walked through it again after she said that, brought her back over, and showed her the flowchart I'd made of how it worked. This was two or three years before I ever heard of Dijkstra. I'm not saying I'm a master or anything. My writing is far better than my reading, and I'm sure I had room to grow in readability. I had trouble figuring out what needed to be commented and what was obvious. It's been about two years now since I was at the university, so I don't remember exact examples of what they wanted. But there really was no room for algorithmic creativity. Strangely enough, I had a harder time doing something with detailed instructions for each method than I did making something from whole cloth while still sticking with the conventions I was taught. As far as setters and getters go, once I realized that eclipse had a menu that let you fill in setters and getters for each variable in a class, I never looked back. That saved me a significant amount of time and errors from writing them free-hand and mixing up the voids vs returned variables writing a dozen of them at a time. So I guess I'm back to an earlier question : Are there any good .Net beginners books? Like I said, I've learned both C++ and Java, so I should learn C# pretty quickly Edit: Cross-posting that last question in the Cavern of Cobol .NET thread. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 07:33
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22 Eargesplitten posted:So this is a short term thing, not a long-term, right? If it's long-term, I can write up a spergpost based on what my sleep specialist doctor told me. Hmm. This is the first time its been this bad, to be honest as the on call picks up it has been getting worse and worse but there is only really one way to fix that and I am working on it.
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Mar 24, 2015 08:11
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I know that it's hard to get the time for something like this, but if it becomes a serious problem and staying up until the time you want to be going to bed doesn't fix it, try just pushing back the time you go to bed by two hours per day. So if you're going to bed at 6AM now, you'd go to bed at 8, then 10, then 12, so on. It takes about a week to go through, and there's no promise that it will work. The important thing once you get to where you want to stay is to stick rigidly to that bedtime for as long as possible. Months, if you can do it. Three weeks if you can't. My experience is that even three weeks wasn't enough. I had the worst case of my particular sleep disorder my doctor had ever seen, though. He also said that for best effect, you should be taking melatonin ~6 hours before you go to bed, since it takes a while to take effect. He said he thinks the effect from taking melatonin shortly before bed is largely placebo, but who knows. He could be wrong, a lot of people do seem to have success with it. I never ended up trying it, probably should have. But I'm better now. Hopefully you don't need the whole sleep cycling thing, it's really unpleasant, and if you slip back into your old schedule you get to start it all over again.
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Mar 24, 2015 09:11
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skooma512 posted:I always volunteer for night shifts. Generally desktop isn't expected to do poo poo all night and I can just veg out. They are always light duty and I have no problem staying awake (the opposite in fact, I can't sleep outside of a bed no matter what, I've tried). When I'm on night shift desktop is always just being used as a reserve army, so basically I'm just a warm body. Ah, I loved getting OT. I used to work nights at a hospital as a janitor when I was in college, and sometimes I'd do a double shift because what else was I going to do? I made 15/hour normal, and then time and a half at night, and then double time on top of that when it was a holiday, which I always volunteered for anyways. That was $37.50 and hour for just pushing a garbage cart around a hospital for a few hours. It was amazing. I actually figured out how much money I made per step as I walked down the hallways and would keep a running total in my head.
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Mar 24, 2015 09:18
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skooma512 posted:I always volunteer for night shifts. Generally desktop isn't expected to do poo poo all night and I can just veg out. They are always light duty and I have no problem staying awake (the opposite in fact, I can't sleep outside of a bed no matter what, I've tried). When I'm on night shift desktop is always just being used as a reserve army, so basically I'm just a warm body. I'm back on days for the next 2 1/2 months, although since our contract is ending in August and people will be bailing fast enough that I might be able to get assigned to the day shift during the week days. My body couldn't handle the weekend night shift - 12 loving hours from 8pm Saturday until 8am Sunday and 8pm Sunday until 8am Monday and I had to get sleeping pills from my doctor. And no O/T. Weekends are still rough, but at least it's not 3rd shift. God, I hope someone responds to my job applications...
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Mar 24, 2015 12:29
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Second year university courses (data structures, etc) tend to be about teaching you basic algorithms and why they work. It's great to go looking for shortest-path. It's better to learn how to write a quicksort and when to use it versus other sorts. Programs are used by people, but they are written for other programmers, and every bit of annoying constrained stuff you encounter relates to that (or language issues, like the need for prototyping in C/++). A good ide goes a long way, and you'll probably be happy to hear that .NET makes getters and setters extremely fast and painless to write. The downside is that "enterprise" .NET is just as toxic as "enterprise" Java or C++, and you can expect a lot of AbstractFactory factories and singletons and... "Enterprise" code is written so a monkey can write it, and it all looks exactly the same. This is tongue-in-cheek, but it's more realistic than you'd think. The stackexchange code is better, and very idiomatic c#, but it still has some design patterns because they're useful. But all of this is analysis paralysis. Code, and go where it leads you. Find a common task you can automate at work, and automate it. Thinking about what kind of development you want to be doing in 5 years when you haven't done any professionally and you don't know what you'll like is a waste. You may really like scripting and never go in the development direction at all
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Mar 24, 2015 14:11
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evol262 posted:Find a common task you can automate at work, and automate it. This is very true. I spend a huge amount of time at work scripting and debugging other people's scripts. I commonly will write scripts even when I can manually accomplish something faster just to be better at scripting. Also keep a notebook of clever scripts and code you see around. I have a ton of notes in Evernote from years of scripting, and if I need something, maybe I remember I came across something like it years ago and can pull it up. I've worked with really incredible scripters, and it's nice to be able to look at older stuff once in a while.
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Mar 24, 2015 14:17
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SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:This is very true. I spend a huge amount of time at work scripting and debugging other people's scripts. I commonly will write scripts even when I can manually accomplish something faster just to be better at scripting. Something similar, I have a file in my homedirectory called "loose-change" and it just contains all the handy one liners I use once every few months.
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Mar 24, 2015 14:19
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Do any of the Recruiter Goons in the thread have an insight into the Houston job market? I'm thinking harder and harder about making a change. I'm a fairly senior Private Cloud/System Management/Operations guy (Hyper-V and System Center) if that makes any difference. Any advice on finding a solid recruiter or is trolling the job boards the best bet?
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Mar 24, 2015 15:30
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Zaepho posted:Do any of the Recruiter Goons in the thread have an insight into the Houston job market? I'm thinking harder and harder about making a change. I'm a fairly senior Private Cloud/System Management/Operations guy (Hyper-V and System Center) if that makes any difference. Does Robert Half have offices there? I know they are national. I use them to great success.
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Mar 24, 2015 15:40
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I've found one fatal flaw with working in the private sector: sitting near sales people is annoying as poo poo.
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Mar 24, 2015 15:55
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gently caress Sales People Forever
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Mar 24, 2015 16:16
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Put in my two weeks today to move from desktop support at a public school to SysAdmin at an actual tech company... No more projector bulbs (hopefully) 
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Mar 24, 2015 16:25
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Gyshall posted:gently caress Sales People Forever At my last consulting gig there was a tiny little salesman office right off the engineering pit. It was like 3 square meets, just enough room for a desk and chair, it was like a phone booth. They'd move salesmen back there before firing them. We hung an exit sign over the door, and when a salesman (or woman) was moved there, they'd ask what was up with the sign, and we'd just snicker at them.
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Mar 24, 2015 16:29
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Gyshall posted:gently caress Sales People Forever We're not all terrible. 
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Mar 24, 2015 16:36
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crunk dork posted:Put in my two weeks today to move from desktop support at a public school to SysAdmin at an actual tech company... No more projector bulbs (hopefully) Didn't you start like 2 months ago or something? Congrats regardless, just curious.
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Mar 24, 2015 16:46
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