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Namarrgon posted:There is so much debate and uncertainty about this it is a bit deceptive to say this. Even the research that shows that alcohol may have a beneficial effect (and not all of them do) never exceed 1 standard unit a day and most are lower than that. Yes, to get the possible beneficial effects of alcohol, you probably don't need to have two drinks per day by any means. That doesn't mean that drinking more than 1 standard drink per day is terrible for your health, it just means it's not beneficial. In the absence of other factors, there's really no evidence that 1-2 standard drinks per day, combined with total abstention at least one day per week, will do you any significant harm. Alcohol is obviously far from a health tonic, but it's not insta-death-juice if you can manage to drink it in moderation.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:25
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I usually have a beer or two in the evening every day. Fridays are usually the exception where I'll have more if I don't have something on the go Saturday morning. People abstaining has never bothered me so long as their not one of those "All drinking is bad and you're a horrible person for doing so" people. They've got their own reason for doing it and it would be equally obnoxious for me to harass them about it in a social situation. Weed is the one thing that I did 3 or 4 times and ended up deciding it wasn't for me. Can't stand the way I feel after smoking it, can see why others like it though. I do smoke cigarettes and that's the one thing I wish I could give up.
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Feb 21, 2015 00:39
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I'm a recovering drug addict and I have abstained from mood or mind altering chemicals for 15 months. I still take an antidepressant, which I guess you could consider mood or mind altering, but it's not a drug of addiction and it doesn't trigger my disease. There has been very interesting science recently with the advent of fMRI's about the nature of addiction. It is now understood to be a genetic, inheritable disorder (I characterize it as a disease - having a predictable history, predictable progression, and known effective treatments - but this is a divisive issue to some). The fMRI scans have shown us that the nature of the genetic predisposition is that addicts are actually born with abnormalities in the lower-level reward systems of their brains. One could induce from this that addicts literally experience substances differently than those without the gene. The altered state that substances produce quickly become one's sole coping mechanism for surviving a life that is experienced with incredible, incredible pain. As addiction hijacks the brain's reward and drive systems, higher level brain function is subverted for the primitive survival mechanisms of the reptilian brain. This progresses to the point where things that are motivations to normal people - the feeling of holding one's newborn for the first time, dancing at your wedding, love, conscience - all become trite in the face of the reward activation of the substance. The notion of stopping using all together feels like and is experienced as absolute ego death; getting clean necessarily means tolerating literal feelings of a sense of loss for some time. Think of this like the old stories of sailors lost at sea after being shipwrecked. What could induce a normal human being to eat another human being, let alone a friend and brothers in arms?nothing under normal circumstances. But on a starvation diet, there are no longer enough calories to support the higher level, outer gray matter of the brain. Only the core reptilian part is active. Human motives become simple: survive no matter what. Eat a nigga if you have to. Because, like I said abstinence from drugs becomes equated with ego death, this situation is analogous in many ways to the later, progressed phase of addiction. Anyway, eventually tolerance takes over and drugs simply stop working eventually. For fleeting moments you get a moment of clarity: brief intervals where even the most profound denial and defense mechanisms prove no longer sufficient. Often, this is directly contingent upon ones capacity to be honest with one's self. At these times, usually in the face of imminent death, honestly assessing the situation and not being able to equate life with anything but abstinence, it's not so much a decision anymore.
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Mar 6, 2015 18:46
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Every time I try to abstain from weed or alcohol I end up failing. Life is too boring without a fat joint at the end of a stressful week. Getting tipsy gets me all emotional and thoughtful about past memories if I'm alone. And getting drunk in a social setting is usually pretty fun. But sometimes when I'm not trying to get wasted and people around me are drunk I realize how retarded it makes you. Maybe it's just because I'm typically grouchy when I'm trying to be all goody-goody, and loud drunk people piss me off then. But then when I do manage to stop drinking and smoking for a week or two at a time, it feels really good and healthy. Having a beer or two every single day isn't the worst thing in the world but it's a long shot from healthy. Points to an inability to get rid of stress or deal with the world without a mild dose of drug. gently caress it though, as long as I'm not getting my rear end dragged to rehab, right? I always made fun of people who are abstinate from alcohol and weed but when I think about it theyre probably a lot less cynical and hateful than the typical person who is always getting smashed, seems like they have their life together a lot more. But then again, who am I kidding, who doesn't drink and smoke once in a while? The more I do it, the more I realize it's just not worth it for my health. The whole glass of wine a day being healthy just sounds like bullshit to me. It's not healthy. Been drunk? That's not healthy, it's you being hosed up. Even if you're only 1/10th drunk, you're also 1/10th hosed up. Smoking pot is also slowly covering my lungs with a thick layer of smoldering tar. Which sucks, because the last vice I have is eating greasy fried food, and that's also poo poo for you. So what's left? Sex? Even that gets boring for me. Maybe I'm just a boring fuckin person, god drat
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Mar 9, 2015 06:42
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Get a vape guy
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Mar 9, 2015 10:59
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killaer posted:Every time I try to abstain from weed or alcohol I end up failing. Life is too boring without a fat joint at the end of a stressful week. Getting tipsy gets me all emotional and thoughtful about past memories if I'm alone. And getting drunk in a social setting is usually pretty fun. Part of getting older is realizing that you don't really need to give a gently caress about things that "aren't good for you". Oh yeah, I ate healthy and treated my body like a temple my whole life. Now I can live to 90 instead of 80. Everyone says those years on your 80's are the best. 10 more years of diapers for me!
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Mar 9, 2015 20:51
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:You're a dumbass for slipping people food they didn't want. Obviously in this case she was just a douchebag about chocolate, but you're the same kind of rear end in a top hat who tells someone with sincere allergies at a restaurant to just pick off the allergy-causing thing or lies about it being in the recipe and smirks if they don't have a reaction. You did a really lovely and stupid thing to someone who trusted you and strutted about it virtually like the dickhead you are. If somebody doesn't want a type of food it isn't your spergtastic responsibility to get it down their throat secretly just because you think it'll be awesome for them/ironic for you (or whatever thought went through your insufficiently productive brain). jesus christ you need therapy
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Mar 9, 2015 21:26
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I figure we have these amazing brains that will make us feel awesome if we tickle them with the right chemicals and it seems like a waste to not take advantage of that.
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Mar 9, 2015 21:41
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Part of getting older is realizing that you don't really need to give a gently caress about things that "aren't good for you". Well, that's not entirely true. I quit smoking a pack a day and drinking every day because I became concerned about both the immediate and long-term effects on my health, and I think that's probably for the best. I still drink a few times per week, smoke a cigar every few days, and have the occasional cigarette. That's a much nicer balance between the possible health consequences, and the fact that I enjoy drinking and smoking.
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Mar 9, 2015 21:58
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Part of getting older is realizing that you don't really need to give a gently caress about things that "aren't good for you". You get the same number of years in diapers (possibly less actually), the difference is actually that you get an entire extra decade of health before you start to break down.  Compare a 40-something goonlord to a 70-year-old who took really good care of themselves; the 70-year-old is in better overall health and has had three entire decades to run around, see the world, and do everything they've ever wanted to do while the goonlord is winding up hobbling around on a cane going in and out of the hospital all the time. The goonlord will probably die at by 60 having spent the last decade of their life essentially housebound while the 70-year-old is running marathons and climbing mountains and poo poo. Most people will wind up with more time and money in retirement than at any other point in their life and it's a huge waste if you're not healthy enough to enjoy it.This doesn't really have anything to do with abstinence though, since there's no sign that indulging in moderation is going to have that much impact on your health or life expectancy.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:25
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The image of healthy people 70+ touring the world and climbing mountains is mostly a myth. They do exist, but are in the vast minority. We have this nice image of people aging gracefully and hopefully passing away at a ripe old age with somewhat of a grasp of our senses, but it's very, very rare. Most of us, healthy or not, will grow old and senile in varying degrees, and die making GBS threads our pants. Of course everyone should try and stay as healthy as possible, but ageing gracefully is more based on random chance than anything we can do to help it.
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Mar 9, 2015 23:58
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:but ageing gracefully is more based on random chance than anything we can do to help it lol no
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Mar 10, 2015 00:11
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down with slavery posted:lol no Sorry, that's the way it is. If you think you have any control whatsover over what's going to happen to you physically or mentally after age 70+, then dementia may have struck you early.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:28
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Sorry, that's the way it is. If you think you have any control whatsover over what's going to happen to you physically or mentally after age 70+, then dementia may have struck you early. i find it amazing that you actually believe this
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Mar 10, 2015 00:29
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down with slavery posted:i find it amazing that you actually believe this It's cool man. Just keep livin' your life. I'm sure it'll be peaches and cream for you.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:35
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:It's cool man. Just keep livin' your life. I'm sure it'll be peaches and cream for you. perhaps you'd like to share what led you to the conclusion that life after 70 is "random"?
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Mar 10, 2015 00:41
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down with slavery posted:perhaps you'd like to share what led you to the conclusion that life after 70 is "random"? Well, I can't speak for him personally, but I've seen people who've abstained from drinking and smoking die of cancer in their 40s, and just this summer I saw my friend's father die of a lung condition brought on by a 1 in 10,000 drug side effect in his mid-60s. I saw my grandfather eat like poo poo and drink in moderation for most of his life and live to his mid-80s. There's just no telling what's going to get you or when, and while it's probably best to drink in moderation, abstain from smoking, eat properly and exercise, I personally wouldn't deny myself the occasional "bad-for-me" pleasure in the hope of eking out a few extra years at the end of my life, which may or may not be spent in good physical and mental health no matter what I do. That's sort of what my friend's dad did, and he's dead now through no fault of his own.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:43
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PT6A posted:Well, I can't speak for him personally, but I've seen people who've abstained from drinking and smoking die of cancer in their 40s, and just this summer I saw my friend's father die of a lung condition brought on by a 1 in 10,000 drug side effect in his mid-60s. I saw my grandfather eat like poo poo and drink in moderation for most of his life and live to his mid-80s. lol it's like the senator from oklahoma that brings in the snowball and says "WHAT NOW SCIENCE?!" god drat u people are stupid
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Mar 10, 2015 01:46
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Sorry, that's the way it is. If you think you have any control whatsover over what's going to happen to you physically or mentally after age 70+, then dementia may have struck you early. I mean there's obviously a bunch of things you can't prevent, but to act like you have no control is just dumb hyperbole. Very little of what happens to you physically is in fact sheer random chance. Yes, even perfect physical specimens who eat healthy and exercise get horrendous butt cancer and die, or their brains turn to pudding, but they are comparatively speaking far less likely to suffer from these things than a person who juggles nuclear waste and eats only cream buns. There's infinite studies out there that show you the benefits of moderate exercise, decent diet, and brain stimulation well into your 90s. Yeah, you could argue that your quality of life is poo poo over 70 or whatever, but that is getting more outdated as time goes on and people are healthier. Lots of people report being happiest at 70-80, way more than those at 30-40. Scientifically speaking, I'd say it's really only getting to be a total crapshoot over 90. Can't be bothered to find the stats now, but I remember it was a similar, maybe even less, probable to live from 90-100 in a developed country than from 0-90.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:52
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down with slavery posted:lol it's like the senator from oklahoma that brings in the snowball and says "WHAT NOW SCIENCE?!" Yes, exactly like that...  I'm not suggesting people take their health lightly. You shouldn't drink a case of beer every night, you should maintain a healthy weight and exercise regularly, but if you want to have a glass or two of wine a few nights per week, the odds of it making your health or old age meaningfully worse is essentially nil compared to random chance.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:54
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PT6A posted:Yes, exactly like that... I'm not suggesting people take their health super seriously either, I just think attributing living after 70 to "random chance" is retarded but for some reason you've decided to step in to defend it.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:58
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I adore beer but I abstain from all liquor. It makes me feel like a different person and I've never had a good time on it. (Except I will have one Hurricane at Mardi Gras. I do have SOME decency.) I feel like people will gravitate to a specific kind of alcohol, and for me it's beer. My dad is an alcoholic and all he drinks is beer. My stepmom has been sober for about 7 years now, but her poison was wine. She hates beer so she's not tempted by it in the house. (I think my dad should be more respectful and reduce his drinking though. It's just a lovely way to treat your wife in recovery to get shitfaced in front of her every night.) I also abstain from recreational drug use. It looks terribly dangerous and I cannot imagine that the fun outweighs the risks. But hey, I'm a nerd. Edit: I tried weed and it wasn't for me. I never got over the paranoia no matter how many varieties I tried. Betazoid fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 02:10
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Betazoid posted:I also abstain from recreational drug use. It looks terribly dangerous You should try a cup of coffee once in a while, shits pretty good
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Mar 10, 2015 02:17
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down with slavery posted:I'm not suggesting people take their health super seriously either, I just think attributing living after 70 to "random chance" is retarded but for some reason you've decided to step in to defend it. I'm not defending his position exactly, as I've clarified in my posts. I'm just saying that, if you practice moderation in all of your vices, exercise regularly, etc., I don't think there's a massive benefit to your life expectancy -- certainly not enough to justify not doing something that you enjoy doing, at least in my opinion. You don't need to abstain from things completely to avoid using them in such quantities that they're damaging your health, unless you're a legitimate addict. There's a great middle ground to explore between complete abstention and giving into your every whim and desire.
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Mar 10, 2015 04:49
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PT6A posted:I'm not defending his position exactly, as I've clarified in my posts. I'm just saying that, if you practice moderation in all of your vices, exercise regularly, etc., I don't think there's a massive benefit to your life expectancy -- certainly not enough to justify not doing something that you enjoy doing, at least in my opinion. Hmm, I wonder if certain activities could be more or less risky and maybe some things you enjoy aren't worth it? Nah, that's never a thing. Also nice use of "massive" benefit, now we can debate over what that is instead of you just admitting that the activities you take part in during life probably do have a statistically significant affect on your life expectancy. The fact that you are somehow apprehensive to admit this is kind of confusing. I don't know why you're going on and on about middle ground, you maybe you should go back and read the post you quoted. Nobody is saying that your lifespan is some kind of formula result that can be obtained by putting activities in. down with slavery fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 04:56
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down with slavery posted:Hmm, I wonder if certain activities could be more or less risky and maybe some things you enjoy aren't worth it? Nah, that's never a thing. "Worth it" is subjective, and, yes, moderate drinking is worth it to me. Heavy drinking was not, so I cut back, and smoking cigarettes was not, so I quit.
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Mar 10, 2015 04:58
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PT6A posted:"Worth it" is subjective, and, yes, moderate drinking is worth it to me. Heavy drinking was not, so I cut back, and smoking cigarettes was not, so I quit. Worth what? You haven't even quantified it, just to say "it's not massive". Maybe that's just wishful thinking on your part? Hell, if you were a heavy drinker for a decent period of time and continue to drink "moderately" today you've probably already done pretty significant damage to your liver. No it's not the end of the world, but to imply that damaging your internal organs doesn't reduce your lifespan, well then that's another thing.
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Mar 10, 2015 05:00
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Sorry, that's the way it is. If you think you have any control whatsover over what's going to happen to you physically or mentally after age 70+, then dementia may have struck you early. Kinda hard to enjoy a healthy decade in your 70s when you died of simultaneous liver, lung, heart, and stomach failure in your fifties. BUT LIFE IS CHAOS NOTHING MEANS ANYTHING WHOOOOOOO
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Mar 11, 2015 03:00
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Gabriel Pope posted:Kinda hard to enjoy a healthy decade in your 70s when you died of simultaneous liver, lung, heart, and stomach failure in your fifties. BUT LIFE IS CHAOS NOTHING MEANS ANYTHING WHOOOOOOO Enjoy your ripe old age of 50, I am one of the 18 ppl under 24 shot every day in America
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Mar 11, 2015 11:38
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I drink from time to time but have decided to stay away from other drugs. It is just too much hassle finding a dealer that i can trust not to cut their goods with rat poison or whatever. I tried weed a few times, it was nice but not ice enough to justify the financial cost and the risk of getting caugth. Now i am wondering if i should abstain from jerking off to porn. I have heard that too much wanking can have a bad mental effect on men. Like it could make you incapapble of enjoying sex. I have also heard that watching porn can alter the brain and make one a woman-hater. I don`t want that to happen to me.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:30
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Baudolino posted:I drink from time to time but have decided to stay away from other drugs. It is just too much hassle finding a dealer that i can trust not to cut their goods with rat poison or whatever. You have around a 0% chance of being able to stop wanking, and this applies to all men. You should probably be able to stop looking at porn, though -- it's not necessary.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:34
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Oh i don`t know. I am sure there must be some monks out there who actually manage to not touch their dicks. If they can do it, why can`t `I? Can it truly be so much harder for not to wank than it is for ex-junkie not to shoot up heroin?
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Mar 11, 2015 21:55
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I never used to drink much anyway, because I'm a massive lightweight and didn't really enjoy the feeling of being drunk anyway - I just got a bit confused and sad whenever I drank, so it wasn't something I particularly sought out in the first place. A couple of years ago I was looking into Buddhism (including the A/T thread, thanks, Buddhist goons  ) and so I tried living as a lay Buddhist for a few months and practising meditation more often, and I found it helpful, so I stuck with it and converted. Some Buddhists do drink, but not to excess, but I'm such a lightweight I couldn't have very much without getting a bit dizzy and making stupid decisions anyway (which is the point of abstaining from intoxicants in Buddhism I think), so it was easier to just give up alcohol altogether.I miss the taste of a good ale or cider sometimes, and I occasionally miss meat too, but what with Internet access and living in a reasonably big city, I can do whatever people do in other religions and cultures where teetotalism and vegetarianism are more common. The restaurants, cafes and pubs near the local mosque and Methodist church have all kinds of tasty soft drinks and teas and coffees, and as long as you buy something, no one minds if you don't drink alcohol. As for food, British vegetarian food tends to just be "meat 'n' two veg, minus the meat", so instead I look up recipes from countries where vegetarianism is more popular and has been around for long enough for a proper veggie cuisine to develop, so I cook a lot of Indian and south-east Asian recipes, and they're tasty and filling enough to keep me from missing meat.
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Apr 17, 2015 00:14
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I do not drink, never have done drugs, never had a cigar. And i hope i never will (im 22). There are so many awesome, fun and actually enriching activities to engage in, settling down for something so damaging as any of those three seems nuts...
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Apr 18, 2015 15:41
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I don't like being drunk and I don't enjoy the taste of alcohol so I don't drink. That's it. Not a teetotaler so I'll have a drink if it would be rude not to.
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Apr 18, 2015 20:46
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Every time I've tried alcohol it tasted bad to me (this is coming from a guy who doesn't like the sensation of carbonated beverages.) I've smoked pot a few times but I didn't really like how it made me feel really anxious. People get really weirdly defensive when I say I don't drink or anything like that. I try really hard not to offend anyone when I say I don't want to partake, so seriously what's the issue? It's not like I'm acting holier-than-thou or something.There's nothing wrong with what you might be doing, it just isn't right for me.
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Apr 20, 2015 11:06
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Yggdrassil posted:I do not drink, never have done drugs, never had a cigar. And i hope i never will (im 22). getting hosed up is more fun than whatever you're thinking of
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Apr 20, 2015 11:49
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I don't drink as I grew up watching my father drink himself to death and in the process have his wife leave him (my mother), lose his career for being caught DUI driving a truck and treat anyone who tried to help, myself included, as the worst people on earth because we wouldn't just let him do what he wanted. Well he did what he wanted and died at 52 of liver failure in crippling debt and leaving his grieving parents to blame themselves until this very day. Sure I could drink and that might not be the outcome but I just want nothing to do with it.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:00
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I didn't drink, smoke, or do drugs until I was 24, and I have no personal or family history of addiction. My reasons were essentially that I was a little spergmaiden and was very heavily influenced by my ex, who was straightedge (also with no firsthand exposure to addiction) and earnestly believed that there is a culture of oppression against people who don't want to get wasted on Jagerbombs every night and that the people who were heading down to the beach with a cooler of Corona and a bong for an all-night bonfire/dance party definitely weren't really having fun, no, not in their hearts. My reasons for abstaining had nothing to do with any fear of addiction or deeply-held moral beliefs, and everything to do with my sheltered-ness, my lack of confidence, and poor social skills. I didn't seek out new friends because I was convinced that everybody else was getting blitzed 24-7 and that people like me forced them to confront the shallowness of their own existences and that therefore I would be unwelcome. I made it loud and clear to anyone who would listen that I would never attend any kind of event where people drank, smoked, or did drugs. I openly judged people who dared to have a Natty Light while watching the game. It never occurred to me that you have to work at making friends and that it might be my obnoxiousness and awkwardness that put people off, not my alleged maturity and my refusal to crack open a beer. I spent the first six years of my adulthood spending every weekend sitting around watching my ex play video games with his friends, while we all smugly reassured each other that the world was against us for our earth-shattering refusal to attend wine tastings and this was way better than grinding on some rando at the club (which was of course all anybody else ever did ever). Obviously, my ex and I split up, and it was traumatic. I forced myself to reconsider some of my most long-held beliefs, and over time I slowly realized that I had no real moral objection to drinking, smoking, or light drug use and that I knew very, very few people who really could only have fun while getting shitfaced. I started making a point out of getting out of my comfort zone and I discovered that most people don't give a poo poo if someone doesn't drink and that there are very few social situations where not drinking or doing drugs is completely unacceptable, and that is actually is fun as hell to go dancing with your friends, or go camping with a big group and four coolers of beer, or to just sit around smoking a bowl and shooting the poo poo with your pals. My straight-edge identity was really just a cover for me to wallow in my own lovely self-esteem and to avoid social interaction with new people. I am not saying that it's like that for everybody, but it definitely was for me and several other people in my social circle. Nowadays I have a drink every couple nights or so with dinner, and a few socially most weekends. I rarely get drunk unless it's a truly major event. I'll smoke the occasional bowl, but not often, and every few months or so I'll have a cigarette at a bar. I'm perfectly happy with that and I feel much happier and more fulfilled than I ever did in my straight-edge days, not because alcohol or drugs have any particular effect in and of themselves, but because now I seek out new experiences and new people rather than putting up unnecessary restrictions on what I can and can't do. (Again, this is my own personal experience and I totally understand that the situation is going to be completely different for someone else, especially someone with a personal or family history of addiction.) My ex, incidentally, went through a similar period of forcing himself out of his comfort zone. He still doesn't drink more than the occasional champagne toast or something like that, and he doesn't smoke or do drugs at all, but he and his wife have a fun, fulfilling, enjoyable life together. We are very good friends now and last month they stopped over and visited my boyfriend and I on their way to camp in the Blue Ridge. They went to a beer festival with us and had a great time even without drinking more than a tiny sample cup of mead. Edit: Incidentally, my ex's hardcore YOU ARE SCUM IF YOU HAVE A BEER stance has come back to bite him on the rear end, as his best friend from school is now an alcoholic (the can't-hold-a-job-because-of-drinking kind) and won't listen to him when he tries to talk to him about his problem because "God, Brendan, everyone knows you freak the gently caress out if someone has a sip of wine, your perspective is way skewed." CrotchDropJeans fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 18:01
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