[MAFIA] Shine II: The Chicago Outfit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [MAFIA] Shine II: The Chicago Outfit

JimsonTheBetrayer: Oct 13, 2010; Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.

VivaNova posted:

I don't think it can be taken for granted that someone was gonna figure it out actually. If you're going to convince someone she's scum, you need to be able to answer this question convincingly.

I just did lmao and now y'all are gonna try and railroad me and like where is she? Hmm? You start putting heat on me and she dissamapears. But a few moments ago she was all on my junk until you guys jumped in.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 01:39

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:09

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Yesterday indicated to me that there are some town in this game who would benefit from some guidance. So I sincerely hope this is helpful and utilized in this game!

How To Find Scum and Case People Better, part 1:

1. Don�t rely on �meta�
Thinking �x acted like this in a past game where x was y alignment� isn�t very helpful for at least 4 reasons:
a. Players generally act the same no matter what their alignment. Additionally, they will probably go through phases in the same game. Their posting will often be affected by timing and irl emotions more often it will be affected by alignment.
b. Sometimes players of both alignments will try to �switch up their playstyle� if they see too much reliance being paid to meta.
c. It�s an easy argument for scum to make, so it won�t convince anyone of your towniness.
d. It can distract you from focusing on better information.

2. Reread with focus
Its D5. You have lots of information that you didn�t on D1! Your D1 reads probably weren�t amazing, so it�s important to reread. Don�t just reread hoping something jumps out at you. Make a list of all the things you know now that town didn�t know D1. This includes flips, claims, results and set-up info. You might get lucky and spot someone who knew something they shouldn�t. More likely, you will have to keep in mind motivation. Who would the scum have wanted lynched at this point? Note who is working towards that objective. Ask yourself why your suspected posted what he did and wonder if your suspect�s actions reveal a scum motivation.

Don�t feel compelled to find evidence your suspect is scum or feel disappointed if you don�t. Post your findings and thoughts anyway- it might trigger a teammate to catch something you didn�t. Remember that finding evidence that can clear someone as town is just as important as finding scum. Calling someone town might be easier than calling them scum, but if you�ve done the work to show why they�re town, you�re doing your job.

3. Analyze interactions with flipped scum
Try to determine if there is a difference in how the suspect interacted with flipped scum and known town. Ask yourself what the purpose of their interactions were. Scum generally lack nuance in their relationship in thread. They have a doc, so they don�t tend to misinterpret something another scum said, or ask for clarification or correct each other about something. Their interactions are generally more simple- bus, ignore, piggyback.

4. Respond to every case
Even if it is only to say that you agree. This lets the poster know he should continue on this case. Really consider if the case follows a logical progression and, when appropriate, try to be critical or ask for clarification. Good town will appreciate critique and will refocus accordingly. Scum will often post ambiguously worded or vague cases but will show weakness in providing supporting details. Don�t back off if someone calls you scummy for pressing an issue. Follow your gut- they could be trying to scare you off a hot lead!

Likewise, demand reactions to your cases and be suspicious of anyone trying to avoid interacting with your case.

5. Post more
This thread is the only way non-masons can communicate with each other- the more you post, the more your teammates have to work with! If you are following the above steps you are acting like a good town and in a way that is difficult for scum to convincingly imitate at a high volume. Imagine scum trying to hide in a game where all townies are consistently casing and replying to each other and not tolerating lazy casework!

I think if you follow these tips, you�ll have more success at mafia, become more engaged in the game and have more fun!!

# ? Jul 6, 2016 01:43

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

JimsonTheBetrayer posted:

I just did lmao and now y'all are gonna try and railroad me and like where is she? Hmm? You start putting heat on me and she dissamapears. But a few moments ago she was all on my junk until you guys jumped in.

Is this a mafia thread or a frat house?
I can grab some kegs if so

# ? Jul 6, 2016 01:45

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

Li Dawny posted:

So from what I understand alcohol is the secret to this game. Therefore, I will be drinking a bottle of wine as I do my reading tonight. Please don't ask me any dumb or embarrassing questions as I will probably embarrass myself.

2 beers in :cheers:

going to reread the last two game days.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 01:45

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

I am posting from a phone for the rest of the night but reading along.

JimsonTheBetrayer posted:

I just did lmao and now y'all are gonna try and railroad me and like where is she? Hmm? You start putting heat on me and she dissamapears. But a few moments ago she was all on my junk until you guys jumped in.

In the event that this is actually being used as a case against me, I have a job that has me working evenings (see blog link in avatar). It's easy-peasy so on nights that I work I can participate on the phone, but for the most part most of my reading the game will occur in the mornings.

VivaNova posted:

I think if you follow these tips, you�ll have more success at mafia, become more engaged in the game and have more fun!!

If you are in fact scum that will go down as the best Mafia Mom post in history. :j:

# ? Jul 6, 2016 02:01

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Truth Quark posted:

Also lol how has no one commented on this

Why is KB on the list as a potential PR, who was then killed at night?

D3:

VivaNova posted:

The only thing I would add is I was hypothesizing that Jimson was a rolecop who hit KB on N1 and was therefore possibly scum.

VivaNova posted:

Jim? - I just said why, could use reactions.

VivaNova posted:

As a reminder, Jimson implied he had a spoilered reason to think KB was town and a reason why KB was suspicious of AA/ccing cop. That really made me think he was a rolecop, then it made wonder if he was a scum rolecop when KB bit it. It's a weird coincidence tpink is now claiming that.

VivaNova posted:

Also idgi re Jimsons response but unless someone has something to add there he's not my top choice.

D4:

VivaNova posted:

Jimmy- Acting like he knew KB was a cop D2 throws me a bit. I know I at least also said a few times that a cop wouldn't cc and he didn't guess I was a cop. For the moment I'm just gonna believe he picked it up from KB's posting. Alternative is if he was scum he knew it from the pink man still in the back of my mind tho.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 02:02

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

2 beers in going to reread the last two game days.

http://i.imgur.com/r0HRZSz.jpg

# ? Jul 6, 2016 02:02

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Murmur Twin posted:

If you are in fact scum that will go down as the best Mafia Mom post in history.

Thanks. It's my repentance for letting a mislynch thru yesterday.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 02:04

JimsonTheBetrayer: Oct 13, 2010; Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.

Cuz during all of this I 4got ##vote MMT

# ? Jul 6, 2016 02:09

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

##vote CapitalistPig

# ? Jul 6, 2016 03:46

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

I mean why would Jimson kill KB after making it clear to everyone that he thinks that he's a power role? If he were scum, wouldn't he pretend he thinks that KB is vanilla to not have a clear motive for targetting him?

Also, four actions happened last night (not including mine)

# ? Jul 6, 2016 03:49

flerp: Feb 25, 2014

mine worked but now im out of shine

# ? Jul 6, 2016 03:55

JimsonTheBetrayer: Oct 13, 2010; Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.

SirSamVimes posted:

I mean why would Jimson kill KB after making it clear to everyone that he thinks that he's a power role? If he were scum, wouldn't he pretend he thinks that KB is vanilla to not have a clear motive for targetting him?

Also, four actions happened last night (not including mine)

Thank you for saying the thing I couldn't think of how you phrase.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 03:59

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

VivaNova posted:

Yesterday indicated to me that there are some town in this game who would benefit from some guidance. So I sincerely hope this is helpful and utilized in this game!

How To Find Scum and Case People Better, part 1:

1. Don�t rely on �meta�
Thinking �x acted like this in a past game where x was y alignment� isn�t very helpful for at least 4 reasons:
a. Players generally act the same no matter what their alignment. Additionally, they will probably go through phases in the same game. Their posting will often be affected by timing and irl emotions more often it will be affected by alignment.
b. Sometimes players of both alignments will try to �switch up their playstyle� if they see too much reliance being paid to meta.
c. It�s an easy argument for scum to make, so it won�t convince anyone of your towniness.
d. It can distract you from focusing on better information.

2. Reread with focus
Its D5. You have lots of information that you didn�t on D1! Your D1 reads probably weren�t amazing, so it�s important to reread. Don�t just reread hoping something jumps out at you. Make a list of all the things you know now that town didn�t know D1. This includes flips, claims, results and set-up info. You might get lucky and spot someone who knew something they shouldn�t. More likely, you will have to keep in mind motivation. Who would the scum have wanted lynched at this point? Note who is working towards that objective. Ask yourself why your suspected posted what he did and wonder if your suspect�s actions reveal a scum motivation.

Don�t feel compelled to find evidence your suspect is scum or feel disappointed if you don�t. Post your findings and thoughts anyway- it might trigger a teammate to catch something you didn�t. Remember that finding evidence that can clear someone as town is just as important as finding scum. Calling someone town might be easier than calling them scum, but if you�ve done the work to show why they�re town, you�re doing your job.

3. Analyze interactions with flipped scum
Try to determine if there is a difference in how the suspect interacted with flipped scum and known town. Ask yourself what the purpose of their interactions were. Scum generally lack nuance in their relationship in thread. They have a doc, so they don�t tend to misinterpret something another scum said, or ask for clarification or correct each other about something. Their interactions are generally more simple- bus, ignore, piggyback.

4. Respond to every case
Even if it is only to say that you agree. This lets the poster know he should continue on this case. Really consider if the case follows a logical progression and, when appropriate, try to be critical or ask for clarification. Good town will appreciate critique and will refocus accordingly. Scum will often post ambiguously worded or vague cases but will show weakness in providing supporting details. Don�t back off if someone calls you scummy for pressing an issue. Follow your gut- they could be trying to scare you off a hot lead!

Likewise, demand reactions to your cases and be suspicious of anyone trying to avoid interacting with your case.

5. Post more
This thread is the only way non-masons can communicate with each other- the more you post, the more your teammates have to work with! If you are following the above steps you are acting like a good town and in a way that is difficult for scum to convincingly imitate at a high volume. Imagine scum trying to hide in a game where all townies are consistently casing and replying to each other and not tolerating lazy casework!

I think if you follow these tips, you�ll have more success at mafia, become more engaged in the game and have more fun!!

This mafia dadding is bugging me.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 07:04

flerp: Feb 25, 2014

same and its a lot of words that dont rly add anything to this game imho

# ? Jul 6, 2016 07:06

flerp: Feb 25, 2014

i never really liked how nova played to begin with tbh

# ? Jul 6, 2016 07:07

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

vote pig, make the right choice.

The string up mafia ma if you really think she's scum, but pig seems like the right choice today.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 12:51

Soaring Kestrel: Nov 7, 2009; For Whiterock.; Fun Shoe

oh, hey, deadline's tonight.

People who I'm currently looking at are LD (still) and probably AA. LD because my goodness there's probably less content there than what I've posted in this game which is saying something; AA because as time goes on I'm increasingly suspicious that scum would actually leave a cop alive this long.

I mean, think about it. AA claims cop and out of shine, which means there are a minimum of two nights before another investigation, (a brewer gives him another Shine on the immediate next night and he investigates the following night, best case). I don't believe we've had any blocked scum kills, so they've been targeting other people. Unless they know something I don't about how many brewers were initially in this game, which I doubt, this seems like risky plays. If this was still, like, day 3, I'd be less susp, but at this point it makes me think something hinky's going on.

I don't think MMT is scum. I really don't think a scum points out that breadcrumb. I don't see the motivation anywhere.

I read SSV as inheriting Hal's role.

##vote LD for now, I'm still filtering people though.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 13:20

Soaring Kestrel: Nov 7, 2009; For Whiterock.; Fun Shoe

Actually, something just popped into my head. LD, we're on day 5. Since backups only get one shine, I'm imagining you've picked up and used a role by now. What did you do / did you get any useful results?

# ? Jul 6, 2016 13:21

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

Flying Leatherman posted:

oh, hey, deadline's tonight.

People who I'm currently looking at are LD (still) and probably AA. LD because my goodness there's probably less content there than what I've posted in this game which is saying something; AA because as time goes on I'm increasingly suspicious that scum would actually leave a cop alive this long.

I mean, think about it. AA claims cop and out of shine, which means there are a minimum of two nights before another investigation, (a brewer gives him another Shine on the immediate next night and he investigates the following night, best case). I don't believe we've had any blocked scum kills, so they've been targeting other people. Unless they know something I don't about how many brewers were initially in this game, which I doubt, this seems like risky plays. If this was still, like, day 3, I'd be less susp, but at this point it makes me think something hinky's going on.

I don't think MMT is scum. I really don't think a scum points out that breadcrumb. I don't see the motivation anywhere.

I read SSV as inheriting Hal's role.

##vote LD for now, I'm still filtering people though.

Eh we still have a couple of mislynches I suppose, but it's probably more that I'm no threat to scum with no shine. I don't know if we have any brewers left or if I've ever been protected or even targeted at night, but I've been vanilla since I copped you.

Besides, the suspicion of me living is probably something they are betting on to secure a mislynch. With so many town dead, I'm reluctant to forfit living just to prove my innocence. I say we redouble our effirts in findung scum

Most convinced about pig, who pushed hard for the anarc lynch and agreed somewhat with my poo poo points and disbelief on quid/adahn/tq

# ? Jul 6, 2016 13:28

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

9 out of 11 people still alive have yet to make 10 posts this game day. Please don't let me down!

# ? Jul 6, 2016 13:52

votefinder: Jul 6, 2010; scoop scoop

Votecount for Day 5 :beerpal:

Li Dawny (1): Flying Leatherman

JimsonTheBetrayer (1): Murmur Twin

CapitalistPig (1): Anomalous Amalgam

Murmur Twin (1): JimsonTheBetrayer

Not Voting (7): CapitalistPig, flerp, Li Dawny, Moatillata, SirSamVimes, Truth Quark, VivaNova :rubshands:

With 11 alive, it's 6 votes to lynch. The current deadline is July 06^th, 2016 at 10 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 13 hours, 7 minutes.

"You know what I hate? When everyone goes quiet all at once - it's like the calm before the storm. Or the pause before a wet fart."

# ? Jul 6, 2016 13:52

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

SirSamVimes posted:

This mafia dadding is bugging me.

Your lack of providing any sort of useful content is super bugging me. That's why I'm trying to help you.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:34

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Flying Leatherman posted:

I mean, think about it. AA claims cop and out of shine, which means there are a minimum of two nights before another investigation, (a brewer gives him another Shine on the immediate next night and he investigates the following night, best case). I don't believe we've had any blocked scum kills, so they've been targeting other people. Unless they know something I don't about how many brewers were initially in this game, which I doubt, this seems like risky plays. If this was still, like, day 3, I'd be less susp, but at this point it makes me think something hinky's going on.

Think about this more- who did the scum actually use their kills on those 3 nights.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:37

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

I'll repost things I found from Saturday that are still relevant:

VivaNova posted:

Questions for thread:

I think it's safe to assume tpink really did cop KB N1. As such, they knew all D2 that KB was a cop and that they'd be trying to kill him that night. Keeping this in mind-

1. would scum AA have claimed cop in this case?
2. where would scum have fallen on the 'we should/shouldn't lynch an uncced cop' debate?

Still excellent questions to consider.

VivaNova posted:

Near the end of D2 I suggested that the boss on dong's boss list wouldn't want the field of candidates narrowed down and therefore wouldn't case someone on that list. A few people agreed with this principle. Since cc was boss of the scumteam, I think we can potentially now extend this idea to SCUM wouldn't want the boss list narrowed. This makes me think you, AN + Pig aren't scum. What do you think of this?

This proved correct in AN's case.

Pig reread:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3780884&userid=155643&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post461692806
^Esp. important that you lazy shits read

VivaNova posted:

It might be worth looking at the cc vote.
It got to -4 minutes and there was no guarantee that there were enough people around to lynch CC. Pink sat out, so its possible other scum did as well, thinking they could swing a NL.

NonCat voters: AN, Hal, SSV, MT, Quid, FL + flerp.

NonCat voters are down to SSV, MT, FL + flerp.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:51

Truth Quark: Mar 21, 2010; EAT THE DONUTS

VivaNova using your master post who do you think is scum this game.

I'm applying your own motives speculation to that post you made, and there are two reason you could have wanted to make it in my eyes:

1. A genuine desire to help, in which case why not post it in the general mafia discussion thread which is where that kind of theory post belongs?

2. Buddying up. Trying to appear to be helpful to town. This is a scum motivation.

VivaNova posted:

Your lack of providing any sort of useful content is super bugging me. That's why I'm trying to help you.

SSV has been playing this game for months, I really doubt you made that post for his sake if you genuinely want to help "inexperienced" players.

This whole thing is really rubbing me the wrong way.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:52

JimsonTheBetrayer: Oct 13, 2010; Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.

SirSamVimes posted:

This mafia dadding is bugging me.

VivaMomva

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:54

Truth Quark: Mar 21, 2010; EAT THE DONUTS

VivaNova posted:

I'll repost things I found from Saturday that are still relevant:

Still excellent questions to consider.

This proved correct in AN's case.

Pig reread:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3780884&userid=155643&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post461692806
^Esp. important that you lazy shits read

NonCat voters are down to SSV, MT, FL + flerp.

The only thing useful this post says is that CPig is probably town for his interactions with dongs' master list. cCat was the only viable lynch by the end of the day. The only reason its potentially useful is that tpink did not vote cCat, so mayyyyybe they were going for a no lynch, but thats pretty WIFOM.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:56

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Keep in mind:

LD and Pig will probably be free lynches tomorrow.
There were some reasons for wanting AA gone that haven't been mentioned in a while. It might be worth to see if they still hold up.
Quid proposed a mass claim yesterday. It might be a good idea.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:56

CapitalistPig: Nov 3, 2005; A Winner is you!

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Most convinced about pig, who pushed hard for the anarc lynch and agreed somewhat with my poo poo points and disbelief on quid/adahn/tq

Well with such airtight logic who wouldn't vote me. I'm considering it tbh.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:57

Truth Quark: Mar 21, 2010; EAT THE DONUTS

Li Dawny posted:

So from what I understand alcohol is the secret to this game. Therefore, I will be drinking a bottle of wine as I do my reading tonight. Please don't ask me any dumb or embarrassing questions as I will probably embarrass myself.

Also note this was never followed up on

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:57

Truth Quark: Mar 21, 2010; EAT THE DONUTS

I agree that a mass claim will probably be useful at this point.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:58

CapitalistPig: Nov 3, 2005; A Winner is you!

Also ##vote jimson

That guy is scum.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 15:58

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

I second the mass claim

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:01

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Truth Quark posted:

VivaNova using your master post who do you think is scum this game.

I'm applying your own motives speculation to that post you made, and there are two reason you could have wanted to make it in my eyes:

1. A genuine desire to help, in which case why not post it in the general mafia discussion thread which is where that kind of theory post belongs?

2. Buddying up. Trying to appear to be helpful to town. This is a scum motivation.

SSV has been playing this game for months, I really doubt you made that post for his sake if you genuinely want to help "inexperienced" players.

This whole thing is really rubbing me the wrong way.

Prolly flerp/Pig.
I want to win.
There's like 2 hours during this game day when im not working or sleeping. I'm really hoping others pick up the slack here....
Do you find SSV's work this game acceptable?
I'd recommend focusing on things that are more useful.

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:03

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

At this point I am not sure of the following roles: cpig jimson flerp viva

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:03

VivaNova: Sep 12, 2009; The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Truth Quark posted:

The only thing useful this post says is that CPig is probably town for his interactions with dongs' master list.

Lol, this is like when Quid cased KB D2 all over again. Learn from the past and open your mind and read the words I wrote. If you don't agree with a conclusion I made, tell me why. Don't call my entire post useless, it's nonsensical and rude.

Truth Quark posted:

cCat was the only viable lynch by the end of the day. The only reason its potentially useful is that tpink did not vote cCat, so mayyyyybe they were going for a no lynch, but thats pretty WIFOM.

yes......that is exactly what I'm proposing...

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:07

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

All of which I know are awake and in thread rn so let's have it out and move on from there

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:07

Truth Quark: Mar 21, 2010; EAT THE DONUTS

VivaNova posted:

Prolly flerp/Pig.
I want to win.
There's like 2 hours during this game day when im not working or sleeping. I'm really hoping others pick up the slack here....
Do you find SSV's work this game acceptable?
I'd recommend focusing on things that are more useful.

Wait what? Didn't you just say it probably wasn't CPig because he did the same thing ANarc did wrt dongs' snoop list?

VivaNova posted:

This proved correct in AN's case.

Pig reread:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3780884&userid=155643&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post461692806
^Esp. important that you lazy shits read

The point about SSV is moot, its just a small thing that stood out a bit to me.

Your last sentence is dismissal, so nice scum tell I guess?

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:08

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:09

Truth Quark: Mar 21, 2010; EAT THE DONUTS

VivaNova posted:

Lol, this is like when Quid cased KB D2 all over again. Learn from the past and open your mind and read the words I wrote. If you don't agree with a conclusion I made, tell me why. Don't call my entire post useless, it's nonsensical and rude.

yes......that is exactly what I'm proposing...

Except... I'm correct? Am I think the only one seeing this?

# ? Jul 6, 2016 16:09

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