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Not all All-Seasons are created equal. There are some notoriously bad ones out there, like the Yokohamas that come stock on the Subaru Impreza. There are also some pretty good ones too, nearly competitive with snow tires.
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Jan 7, 2017 18:05
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FogHelmut posted:Not all All-Seasons are created equal. There are some notoriously bad ones out there, like the Yokohamas that come stock on the Subaru Impreza. There are also some pretty good ones too, nearly competitive with snow tires. Nokian WR's are fantastic. But they are an all weather tire, not an all season. Great compromise when you only get some snow/ice.
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Jan 7, 2017 18:09
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shortspecialbus posted:So there's 3 primary problems with winter driving in areas that don't frequently get snow vs somewhere like Wisconsin. FogHelmut posted:Not all All-Seasons are created equal. There are some notoriously bad ones out there, like the Yokohamas that come stock on the Subaru Impreza. There are also some pretty good ones too, nearly competitive with snow tires.  It doesn't necessarily indicate greatness, but where there are legal requirements for tires in winter conditions this is usually the standard that matters in the US or Canada.
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Jan 7, 2017 18:13
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That's the symbol for winter tires though, not all seasons. Or is it on all seasons too? I guess I never paid attention.
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Jan 7, 2017 18:16
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shortspecialbus posted:So there's 3 primary problems with winter driving in areas that don't frequently get snow vs somewhere like Wisconsin. Even better is someplace like here in Vegas when snow sticks to the ground every decade or two and there is basically never ice. It turns traffic to a cluster gently caress of biblical loving proportions. Like back in 2008, I think. Around noonish the director came around to everyone and told everyone to go home. Like straight pack it up right now, and go home. Snow was sticking to the ground and we were going to get 3 or so inches and it wasn't going to melt away. We were told not to stop or screw around but just go straight home. We don't own or stock road salt, and we don't own any other ways to deal with snow. Nothing but summer tires from here to the horizon. Saw 6 wrecks on the way home with less than an inch. People sliding cars into the opposing lanes of traffic when cornering on The Strip. People on the freeway driving 80 like it was normal. I took side streets.
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Jan 7, 2017 18:25
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shortspecialbus posted:That's the symbol for winter tires though, not all seasons. Or is it on all seasons too? I guess I never paid attention. It's "4 season approved" BF goodrich ko2 tires have that symbol and are rated for mud + snow because money i guess?
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Jan 7, 2017 18:36
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ulmont posted:https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/how-subarus-came-to-be-seen-as-cars-for-lesbians/488042/ The Subaru Outback might as well be the state car of Vermont, followed by the Toyota Prius, and then the Jetta (less so after the emissions recall).
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Jan 7, 2017 18:38
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BitBasher posted:Even better is someplace like here in Vegas when snow sticks to the ground every decade or two and there is basically never ice. Pretty sure if Phoenix ever saw snow it would be an apocalypse beyond all imagination.
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Jan 7, 2017 18:39
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Powershift posted:It's "4 season approved"
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Jan 7, 2017 18:42
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The Locator posted:Pretty sure if Phoenix ever saw snow it would be an apocalypse beyond all imagination. What would be worst, Phoenix or Miami with snow?
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Jan 7, 2017 19:09
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The old people in Miami are dying or nearly dead. The old people in Phoenix are spry enough to drive themselves down for the winter, and are still on the roads. Flip side, they probably came from an area with winters. Short answer, I don't know.
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Jan 7, 2017 20:11
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Phoenix doesn't even really have storm drains, which is fun because while it doesn't get snow, it does get monsoon rains. Real monsoons, it's the same phenomenon as in India/Bangladesh. And there are bits where one road dips below street level to pass under another road. And of course there are signs that warn against entry during flood conditions, but every so often some dumb motherfucker drowns because he enters during flood conditions. Phoenix drivers during rain are lol D.C. drivers during snow, except that it rains a lot more often in Phoenix than it snows in D.C.
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Jan 7, 2017 20:43
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The Locator posted:Pretty sure if Phoenix ever saw snow it would be an apocalypse beyond all imagination. Even Texas with snow is basically a death orgy, and they've gotta be at least 10 IQ points ahead of your average Arizonan.
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Jan 7, 2017 20:47
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Phanatic posted:Phoenix doesn't even really have storm drains, which is fun because while it doesn't get snow, it does get monsoon rains. Real monsoons, it's the same phenomenon as in India/Bangladesh. It's bad enough that "turn around don't drown" becomes a meme on the local news and the state has started requiring people to pay for having their car towed out of the flood because it happens so frequently. Snow honestly wouldn't be as bad as rain > freeze would be. That ground is so hard half an inch of rain causes standing water for days.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:08
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carry on then posted:Snow honestly wouldn't be as bad as rain > freeze would be. That ground is so hard half an inch of rain causes standing water for days. Imagine if it was to flood, then freeze. Ice sheets over the flooded areas which would either collapse when some idiot drove on to it or result in people 11'8"ing themselves on whatever the road's going under.
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Jan 7, 2017 22:02
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...icles-1.3926177 Winter makes roads slippery, who knew 
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Jan 7, 2017 22:59
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You'd think canada would have this poo poo down by now.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:02
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Yeah, well, there are an incredible amount of idiots everywhere.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:07
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Javid posted:You'd think canada would have this poo poo down by now. Toronto, doesn't count.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:16
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I live in a region that measures annual snowfall in feet and yeah - most people seem to forget that winter is a thing that happens at least three months out of the year, much less remember how to drive when there's sufficient snowfall.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:30
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sirr0bin posted:Toronto, doesn't count. Calgary has the same problems, compounded by people with lifted bro-trucks who think "winter tires are for faggots, I've got a 4WD truck, I don't need that!" and enjoy going 20 over the limit on snow-covered highways.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:25
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So what's the rule for when the hammer the brakes to engage abs vs not engage at all for traction? I'm not sure why all the cars in these videos have their wheels locked up and I know I've made that mistake on occasion.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:06
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ABS is proven to be better at stopping a vehicle than any human you could name, so if your mission is to come to a halt ASAP burying your foot into the floor is the way to go. If you want steering available while doing this it gets more complicated. There's a so called "friction budget" you draw from when controlling a vehicle and if all of it's being dedicated for braking, steering ain't gonna work well. Knowing which to pick is mostly an issue of experience.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:28
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If it ever snows in San Diego there will be a double-digit death toll at the very least. People can barely drive when it rains here.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:37
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I got the job as an auto claims drone so  will be fun following this thread while learning the ropes there.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:22
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xzzy posted:ABS is proven to be better at stopping a vehicle than any human you could name, so if your mission is to come to a halt ASAP burying your foot into the floor is the way to go. Yes! Friction budget is a good term for that. I'll have to use that when I'm trying to explain this poo poo to people. You can brake or turn at full capacity - you can't do both. Or other things, but those are the two main ones.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:30
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xzzy posted:ABS is proven to be better at stopping a vehicle than any human you could name, so if your mission is to come to a halt ASAP burying your foot into the floor is the way to go. Brake then turn is the name of the game if you want to be as effective as possible when avoiding something while also reducing speed quickly.
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Jan 8, 2017 09:46
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MrOnBicycle posted:It's actually significantly better to brake at the the threshold of ABS activation (at least in the dry). Not that 99% of drivers should even think about it. Unless you are a stunt driver/professional racer you won't have the skills to brake better than the ABS can so in theory ABS isn't as good as not but most people vastly overestimate there abilities its best not to mention it. The bike community is full of idiots who think they are skilled enough to out brake ABS and it's a macho badge of honour to be as good as Rossi. shortspecialbus posted:Yes! Friction budget is a good term for that. I'll have to use that when I'm trying to explain this poo poo to people. You can brake or turn at full capacity - you can't do both. Or other things, but those are the two main ones. In Britain its often called a pie. Your tyres only have so much grip and that is the pie, the more of the pie that is used for braking the less is for steering (and visa-versa)
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Jan 8, 2017 12:36
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mastershakeman posted:So what's the rule for when the hammer the brakes to engage abs vs not engage at all for traction? I'm not sure why all the cars in these videos have their wheels locked up and I know I've made that mistake on occasion.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:53
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Foxtrot_13 posted:Unless you are a stunt driver/professional racer you won't have the skills to brake better than the ABS can so in theory ABS isn't as good as not but most people vastly overestimate there abilities its best not to mention it. The bike community is full of idiots who think they are skilled enough to out brake ABS and it's a macho badge of honour to be as good as Rossi. This is why it pisses me off to see people braking on bridges in icy conditions, or braking while turning. You either have the friction to make the turn, in which case you don't need to brake, or you're already hosed. And for gently caress sake, brake before you get onto the possibly-icy bridge, not when you're on it.
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Jan 8, 2017 16:29
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Or just let off the gas and coast, which also improves your available grip (or more specifically, you stop using it to deliver power and have more available for turning). Unless you're already sliding. At that point you gotta stay on the gas and unleash your inner drifter.
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Jan 8, 2017 16:39
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xzzy posted:Or just let off the gas and coast, which also improves your available grip (or more specifically, you stop using it to deliver power and have more available for turning). Yes, that too. I will usually coast on bridges if I expect ice, although it's important not to let off the gas too quickly either, that can cause a loss of traction too.
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Jan 8, 2017 16:49
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Eifert Posting posted:I got the job as an auto claims drone so Out of curiosity if it's not too private how does the pay work, is it good? God knows those premiums keep your wallets full. 
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Jan 8, 2017 17:07
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:If it ever snows in San Diego there will be a double-digit death toll at the very least. People can barely drive I've lived in SoCal for just over a year now, and it's hosed up. Pass on the right. Shoot the gap. Block the guy trying to merge. Cut off the truck. Me first. Me me me, mine mine mine. I've never been anywhere else where it's such a regular occurrence for people to run red lights. And everyone just accepts it and waits a full second before going when they get the green. I see it at least once a day. They tailgate me in my neighborhood. They speed by my house. They take the blind curves in the winding suburban neighborhoods full of kids on scooters at tire squealing speeds. I'm from New Jersey. We have traffic and high insurance rates and jughandles. This poo poo here is hosed up.
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Jan 8, 2017 17:18
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FogHelmut posted:I've lived in SoCal for just over a year now, and it's hosed up. Pass on the right. Shoot the gap. Block the guy trying to merge. Cut off the truck. Me first. Me me me, mine mine mine. Honestly, if you thing San Diego drivers are bad, just wander south into Tijuana. 
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Jan 8, 2017 18:04
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Michael Scott posted:Out of curiosity if it's not too private how does the pay work, is it good? God knows those premiums keep your wallets full. Not as much as you'd think. Usually 4-5 cents on the dollar profit. Some companies, like State Farm, routinely lose money on the Auto book and make it up elsewhere. The pay works the same as every other professional establishment - base pay, holidays/vacation, and some companies offer a profit sharing percentage. If you try to incentive not paying claims or the like you're headed for a DOI and lawsuit paddling.
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Jan 8, 2017 18:09
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MrOnBicycle posted:It's actually significantly better to brake at the the threshold of ABS activation (at least in the dry). Not that 99% of drivers should even think about it. On certain loose surfaces if stopping is your only goal locking up the wheels is actually the best answer because it digs in and plows a big hill of the surface in front of it. I know that applies to sand and deep gravel, not sure how deep and wet snow would have to be for it to be relevant. In those cases locking up is best, threshold braking is second best, and ABS is worst. Some of the modern trucks with selectable drive modes have a mode that disables ABS In all other cases of course you are correct, threshold braking is the best answer, ABS second best, and locking up worst. We should all remember that the purpose of ABS is not primarily to stop faster, but to keep you more in control of the vehicle in a panic stop situation. Rear ABS keeps the back end in line (so if you do crash it's at least in the direction the safety systems are best at) and four-wheel ABS gives you limited steering ability (so you might be able to avoid the crash altogether).
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Jan 8, 2017 18:22
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Foxtrot_13 posted:In Britain its often called a pie. Your tyres only have so much grip and that is the pie, the more of the pie that is used for braking the less is for steering (and visa-versa) Obviously the "circle" can be an oval or egg shape as suits how much traction is available in each axis.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:12
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InitialDave posted:Circle of traction. Start in the centre of the circle, your inputs are X and Y values. Acceleration and braking is up/down, steering is left/right. If you combine an X and Y large enough to put the resultant point outside the circle, you're sliding. While obvious, try explaining X and Y axis to the people who have to break out their phone's calculator to figure out that 4 for $5 means $1.25 each. (Recent real world example) I think the "traction budget" is a better way to explain the average slack-jaw why mashing the brakes mid corner is a bad idea. YMMV, as always.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:21
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Not as much as you'd think. Usually 4-5 cents on the dollar profit. Some companies, like State Farm, routinely lose money on the Auto book and make it up elsewhere. I know health insurance companies are mandated to pay a certain amount of premium revenue out in medical reimbursement, I wasn't sure if auto had similar regulations. I know it's competitive for sure. How is that possible for State Farm I wonder. I have a minor accident on the books and SF quoted me the highest rates of any major carrier, a ridiculous amount. Maybe they aggressively price drivers with no accidents.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:44
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