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Davros1 posted:Maybe she thought she could pressure Vince into not letting Mick do stupid poo poo by demanding money? Sounds like she understands the business and her husband a bit better than you.
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Aug 21, 2017 04:16
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would be weird if she didnt since its her husband and her husbands business
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Aug 21, 2017 04:17
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MassRafTer posted:Sounds like she understands the business and her husband a bit better than you. I'm fairly certain Davros1 was posting that in her favor?
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Aug 21, 2017 04:28
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Jerusalem posted:I'm fairly certain Davros1 was posting that in her favor? I don't think she was that naive and if I'm not mistaken she went to Vince after a dumb thing happened, since I don't think she was clued in before. Might be wrong about the second part, but I remember her trying to get Mick not to do the dumb poo poo and if he did trying to get more from Vince.
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Aug 21, 2017 04:33
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MassRafTer posted:I don't think she was that naive and if I'm not mistaken she went to Vince after a dumb thing happened, since I don't think she was clued in before. Might be wrong about the second part, but I remember her trying to get Mick not to do the dumb poo poo and if he did trying to get more from Vince. Yeah sorry if I wasn't clear, this is what I was saying my take on things was and I think Davros1 was agreeing. Just noting that for awhile a few years back, it wasn't uncommon for people to try to characterize it as her ruthlessly exploiting Mick. Still no idea if this is the cryptic thing that Disgusting Coward mentions hearing veiled references too on other forums or not.
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Aug 21, 2017 04:44
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On Something to Wrestle With Prichard says that Vince would try to dissuade Foley from doing nasty bumps but Foley would somehow convince Vince that he could do them safely/not get hurt by them.
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Aug 21, 2017 04:46
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Does Rick Rude ever get associated with DX at all these days? Had he not died and returned to the WWE, would he be counted as a member of DX? No doubt I've missed some info on him, but I never hear mention of him and DX, not compared to obviously Xpac, Billy Gunn & Road Dogg.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:39
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freeranger posted:Does Rick Rude ever get associated with DX at all these days? Had he not died and returned to the WWE, would he be counted as a member of DX? As far as I remember, Rude was only in the faction from like late summer until the Montreal Screw Job in November.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:45
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Foley's book goes into detail about the Colette "negotiating" thing. Basically after the Taker/Mankind HiaC, she was completely terrified of him ever doing such a thing again and wanted him to retire if not at least dramatically tone down the spots he took. He argued that he absolutely needed those spots in order to keep his heat. After a lot of arguing, Colette eventually realized that Mick wasn't going to stop so at the very least he ought to negotiate with Vince from a dramatic pay raise since he was likely shortening his career. Mick was hesitant to bring it up himself, so Colette went to meet Vince directly and Vince agreed with her. Of course a lot of "sleaze" sites try to spin it as that Colette was a cold manipulative mastermind trying to negotiate large pay-offs using the offer of Foley doing increasingly risky spots as leverage, which of course is demonstrably false since other that the "I Quit" match at RR '99 (which went horribly wrong from what was planned) nothing Foley ever did again was even as close to as dangerous as the Taker/Mankind HiaC. Shiki Dan fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Aug 21, 2017 |
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Aug 21, 2017 06:54
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RealFoxy posted:He was part of DX version 1, which is much less talked about because they really weren't that eventful. WWE has a very revisionist history so you're only ever going to hear about when DX were the very top act and Triple H was a total badass rebel that "Drove a tank to a WCW show" If I remember right, Rude jumped to Nitro. (He might have even been on both shows that week since back then raw was only taping on Monday's and Tuesday's every other week.) I remember they brought out Harvey Wippleman with DX the next week and HHH made a comment along the lines of, "wow, he was really hard to replace.."
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Aug 21, 2017 06:58
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Rude was on all three promotions’ shows that week; RAW was taped so he was on that, he had been working freelance and quit after the Screwjob, where he walked out on Nitro, clean-shaven; and because he was working freelance he was also doing commentary with Styles on ECW Hardcore TV that week. So for a single week Rick Rude was seemingly everywhere.
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Aug 21, 2017 09:10
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Objectively the best week.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:38
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Shiki Dan posted:Foley's book goes into detail about the Colette "negotiating" thing. You can tell this is true because "Vince agrees to pay Mick much better for dangerous spots, then never does one again" just feels right.
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Aug 21, 2017 13:13
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Iirc after HiaC didn't Vince go to Foley and thank him profusely and then tell him never do anything like that again? I remember reading that years ago. I don't remember the source.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:37
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I think it's in Have A Nice Day, I've read it too.
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Aug 21, 2017 14:53
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6EQUJ5 6 7 posted:Iirc after HiaC didn't Vince go to Foley and thank him profusely and then tell him never do anything like that again? magnum_valentino posted:I think it's in Have A Nice Day, I've read it too. So the source doesn't remember it either.
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Aug 21, 2017 21:49
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Also it was Terry Funk's idea. Conversation went like Funk: I know, he can throw you off the cage. *laughs* Mick: Yeah, then I can go back up and do it again. Both: *laugh* Mick: ...wait I think I can actually pull that off.
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Aug 22, 2017 15:56
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CityMidnightJunky posted:You know I don't think I've ever heard Rock's side of this story. From how Foley describes it in his book, the plan was for there to be 4-5 chair shots max, spaced a couple of minutes apart, to build up the tension so the shots seemed worse than they were. But then Rock decided to change minutes to seconds, and hit an unsuspecting Foley so many times he forgot how to dress himself properly (I'm just assuming that's how it happened whenever I see a picture of him in a fanny pack and a leopard skin sweater). Foley clearly feeds him the first two. The remaining nine, two actively knock him down (including the last one, a wicked shot to the back of the head that put Foley flat on his face so they could do the pre-recorded I Quit gently caress finish) and the rest he either charges through or staggers away from. Reminiscent of the Cactus/Sandman frying pan incident, Foley's out on his feet and refusing to stay down & Rock doesn't have much choice but to keep pelting him until he goes down.
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Aug 22, 2017 16:37
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What is the deal with referees, at least in the WWE? I was watching some stuff and came across this video where a guy called Neville broke his ankle in a match with Jericho a year or so ago. To try and wrap things up, Jericho and Neville suggest a quick pin but veteran ref Charles Robinson counts only 2, obviously because he must be clued into how the match is really supposed to end. But at the latest PPV, I am like 99% positive one ref counted 3 by accident during, I think, the Cesaro/Sheamus vs. Ambrose/Rollins match. So....what do the refs know going into matches? What is their scripted job? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 13:10
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Supposedly refs today don't know the finish so their counts will look authentic. But I assume that's only the case if it's going to be a regular pin. Maybe Neville/Jericho had something fancier planned they had to clue the ref in on, so he didn't count when he was seeing something else?
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Aug 23, 2017 13:30
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Robinson talked about the situation on Jericho's podcast: https://youtu.be/Z1hZaFIFrcc Basically he counted what he saw: Neville's shoulders weren't down and he wasn't sure something was wrong until later. I recommend listening to the whole bit above, it's quite interesting and reveals at least something about how they work. I understand it varies from match to match - I believe refs might know who is at least winning and maybe the finish, but in some cases they're instructed to count every pin attempt as the real thing. Afaik that was the case when Lesnar beat Undertaker's streak.
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Aug 23, 2017 13:45
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BTW refs not knowing the finish and being instructed to count every pinfall as real, and then getting chewed out or even fired when they accidentally count 3 is yet a brilliant feature added by an increasingly senile Vince McMahon. Ironic that for a man who wanted to disassociate himself from wrestling and a "fake" label for most of his life, he seems to drifting more and more back towards protecting kayfabe as he ages and his brain cells evaporate.
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Aug 23, 2017 14:13
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Shiki Dan posted:BTW refs not knowing the finish and being instructed to count every pinfall as real, and then getting chewed out or even fired when they accidentally count 3 is yet a brilliant feature added by an increasingly senile Vince McMahon. That's a very weird interpretation of an era marked by an increase in shoot angles and further blurring of face and heels. Kayfabe is less important now than any time since the Attitude era.
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Aug 23, 2017 14:33
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MassRafTer posted:That's a very weird interpretation of an era marked by an increase in shoot angles and further blurring of face and heels. Kayfabe is less important now than any time since the Attitude era. It's very inconsistent, which I think is the key sign of Vince... not being as there as he used to be. He has an official corporate policy and then he has random brain farts where he wants it all a certain way right then and there and if it's not someone's gotta pay.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:39
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Maxwell Lord posted:It's very inconsistent, which I think is the key sign of Vince... not being as there as he used to be. He has an official corporate policy and then he has random brain farts where he wants it all a certain way right then and there and if it's not someone's gotta pay. That's a good way to describe the implementation although ensuring the wrestlers don't get lazy and the refs have some credibility is a good policy.
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Aug 23, 2017 18:15
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The notion of the refs having credibility and authority is good, but in practice it just leads to messing with the thing that makes worked wrestling matches well.... work. If the ref doesn't know the finish or doesn't have the ability to cover for mistakes, then you're loving with the idea of having a pre-determined finish at all.
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Aug 23, 2017 18:20
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My memory of the refs count as a shoot policy is that when it was implemented, a couple of months later a referee was fired for counting 3 during a tag match in ecw.
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Aug 23, 2017 18:36
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Gaz-L posted:The notion of the refs having credibility and authority is good, but in practice it just leads to messing with the thing that makes worked wrestling matches well.... work. If the ref doesn't know the finish or doesn't have the ability to cover for mistakes, then you're loving with the idea of having a pre-determined finish at all. How often does something get screwed up, once a year, maybe? The case mentioned here wasn't even a planned finish. Right now the most irritating things about the NJPW and CMLL in ring products are the refs and the way they are booked in matches(and not just Tirantes being Tirantes.)
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Aug 23, 2017 18:53
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MassRafTer posted:How often does something get screwed up, once a year, maybe? The case mentioned here wasn't even a planned finish. I always like the bits in the top CMLL matches where everyone just starts ignoring the ref, shile randomly brawling outside the ring for 5 minutes. Then they start doing stage dives and you wonder why hasn't there been a count out or no contest called yet
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Aug 23, 2017 19:02
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exploded mummy posted:I always like the bits in the top CMLL matches where everyone just starts ignoring the ref, shile randomly brawling outside the ring for 5 minutes. Then they start doing stage dives and you wonder why hasn't there been a count out or no contest called yet Ok I take it back it is also the best part about CMLL.
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Aug 23, 2017 19:16
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oldskool posted:Foley clearly feeds him the first two. The remaining nine, two actively knock him down (including the last one, a wicked shot to the back of the head that put Foley flat on his face so they could do the pre-recorded I Quit gently caress finish) and the rest he either charges through or staggers away from. He talks about it in the extra chapter that's in the paperback version of Have a Nice Day. They had agreed on two chairshots, but (according to Foley's less than reliable recollection, anyway) Rock was so amped up that he kept going, and Foley kept getting up because he was so pissed off at Rock for going off-script and just teeing off on him. Shiki Dan posted:nothing Foley ever did again was even as close to as dangerous as the Taker/Mankind HiaC. I don't know, him and Flair losing a few pints of blood each and practically swimming in it on the mat for a meaningless TNA television match was pretty goddamn stupid and dangerous.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:53
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Timby posted:He talks about it in the extra chapter that's in the paperback version of Have a Nice Day. They had agreed on two chairshots, but (according to Foley's less than reliable recollection, anyway) Rock was so amped up that he kept going, and Foley kept getting up because he was so pissed off at Rock for going off-script and just teeing off on him. I was going to disagree but then I remembered that he's so hosed up he can't ride rollercoasters so everything he did in that TNA run was so needlessly dangerous.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:39
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MassRafTer posted:How often does something get screwed up, once a year, maybe? The case mentioned here wasn't even a planned finish. I feel like we rarely agree on things, but I'm going to say you are 100% or higher if humanly possible right about this. I love NJPW's match quality, but the ridiculous interference and referees looking like completely inept chumps ruins a lot of matches for me. It's just idiotic to do a "realistic sport" presentation and have that poo poo on the same show
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Aug 23, 2017 23:07
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I'm not sure how realistic a promotion that has "King of Darkness" EVIL headlining one of its biggest shows of the year is trying to be?
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Aug 24, 2017 08:44
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EVIL's gimmick is more "podium dancer in a goth-themed gay club" than anything
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Aug 24, 2017 11:39
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St Evan Echoes posted:EVIL's gimmick is more "podium dancer in a goth-themed gay club" than anything I also agree that EVIL loving rules.
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Aug 24, 2017 11:44
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Yeah his look is great and his G1 matches this year turned him from a guy I kinda liked into one of my favourites 
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Aug 24, 2017 13:34
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Yeah, it's not like EVIL is a lightning and druids Undertaker knockoff with supernatural powers.
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Aug 24, 2017 13:54
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My initial impression of EVIL once he was in the ring and had shed the cloak and rubber scythe, was that he kinda looked like a japanese RVD.
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Aug 24, 2017 14:34
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Well, now I really want to see Magnum Tokyo go goth.
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Aug 24, 2017 15:12
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