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eSporks posted:After the revelations of ep18, its reminding me a lot of the box in Mullholland Drive. There is a point where Cooper mentions that they're "going to the show" or something similar and I was hanging on so tight hoping for them to walk onto the stage in Mulholland Drive. I wanted Lynch to blatantly connect Janie-e with Betty and the lodges with Club Silencio.
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Sep 6, 2017 07:17
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JBP posted:There is a point where Cooper mentions that they're "going to the show" or something similar and I was hanging on so tight hoping for them to walk onto the stage in Mulholland Drive. I wanted Lynch to blatantly connect Janie-e with Betty and the lodges with Club Silencio.
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Sep 6, 2017 07:20
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...! posted:I cannot overstate how much I HATED the ending. It's pretty much retroactively ruined the entire season for me since there's so much that was never explained at all and it ended on a bunch of cliffhangers AGAIN. My opinion will change if it turns out to be a setup for another season, but that seems extremely unlikely. Zero payoff? The payoff was all throughout the season: 1. Norma and Ed are at last together 2. Cooper did return to twin peaks to save the day and live happily ever after with Janey-E (via his tulpa) 3. Cooper's doppleganger was stopped and along with his reign of inter-dimenisonal super criminal terror 4. We learned who/what judy is 5 We see the white lodge and learn the purpose of the Giant (the fireman who tries to contain Judy's fire) 6. Everything about episode 8 and the genesis of BOB 7. The satisfaction that Bobby turned to a force of good and lived up this father's predictions from Season 2 8. Andy & Lucy are heroic figures who played a part in destroying bob 9. We finally met diane, both tulpa and real versions 10 We get to go on with the confirmed knowledge that James was always cool. And even all that doesn't include face rippin judy, sludge hobo skull crusher woodsmen, tea kettle guild navigator david bowie from beyond the grave, dr jacoby as local alex jones, higher than gently caress jerry horne, king of trailers harry dean stanton, and wally goddamn brando himself. There's more that's the payoff. To me it was 18 episodes of constant payoff.
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Sep 6, 2017 07:21
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I think people are reading too much into "What year is it?". The year is irrelevant; the ending is obviously set in "present day" and they even have a long shot of them parked at a modern gas station to confirm that it's not the 80's or anything. Cooper says it partly because he has no idea where he is or what's going on, but it's a pretty blatant message from Lynch to the viewer. The year isn't 1990, it's 2017 and Twin Peaks is never going to be the same place you remembered, just like how The Return is not the fanservicey nostalgia trip some people wanted. The whole season is built on the idea that the effects of time are permanent and you can't live in the past. Cooper tries to change the past and finds out the hard way that what's done is done.eSporks posted:Random thought. The dead dude on the couch very intentionally looks like Bob. Is the Implication here that Carrie Page killed him because her sub conscious remembered Bob and he reminded her of him? My first guess is that he was an abusive husband that she shot in self-defense, but the AK-47 lying around and her mention of another man looking for her suggests some kind of criminal enterprise. I think it's just another example of things in the Odessa universe subtly mirroring the Twin Peaks universe in more mundane ways. el oso posted:So what was up with that box in Buenos Aires? That's just a device Bad Coop was using to communicate with his assassins without getting caught. That string of numbers he said before the box crumpled up was a self-destruct code, because he thought his assassins had successfully killed Dougie by blowing up his car and he could now destroy all evidence of the crime.
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Sep 6, 2017 07:29
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G-III posted:
You could argue that none of that happens though, because it never happened (that's what the finale seems to imply).
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Sep 6, 2017 07:29
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Yeah, I could've sworn the "see you at the curtain call" line was referencing some 4th wall breakage that was about to happen. Yes, that was the line! I got amped even though I knew I had no real reason to. This season was so much fun.
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Sep 6, 2017 07:43
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all I can think of know is Robin Williams in Jumanji saying "What year is it!"
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Sep 6, 2017 07:43
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Jerry Horne was the embodiment of me watching the series.
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Sep 6, 2017 07:45
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bad binoculars
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Sep 6, 2017 07:55
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Is that mother's hat?
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Sep 6, 2017 08:07
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Hmmm. What if the very first shot of the season was the return? Maybe that's Richard there ready to return. "Agent Cooper" is the Fireman reminding him who he used to be. "Listen to the sounds" is reminding him of the sound of Laura being snatched away. "It is in our house now" is him saying Laura is returned. "It cannot be said aloud now", the timeline fuckery is over and must remain a sercret. "Remember 430", i.e. do you remember crossing that point of no return? "Richard and Linda", do you remember that Linda woman who dumped you after a night at a motel once upon a time? "Two Birds with One Stone", because it was two of you that crossed over, "You are far away", you've crossed back over. Listen to Cooper's voice. It's more like Richard from the closing scenes. No FBI lapel either.
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Sep 6, 2017 08:45
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o poo poo i just realized, if cooper was destroyed in that alternate reality that collapsed at the end of 18, twin peaks ONLY has dougie I think the giant's speech at beginning of episode 1 was entirely about this alternate reality place, if that is true then "two birds with one stone" must mean two things were accomplished by cooper in episode 18. Killing judy (who was there too, who said 'laura' right at the end), and maybe also destroying that alternate reality. Or destroying himself and laura. Or something I dunno.
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Sep 6, 2017 08:57
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Modrasone posted:Hmmm. What if the very first shot of the season was the return? Maybe that's Richard there ready to return. "Agent Cooper" is the Fireman reminding him who he used to be. "Listen to the sounds" is reminding him of the sound of Laura being snatched away. "It is in our house now" is him saying Laura is returned. "It cannot be said aloud now", the timeline fuckery is over and must remain a sercret. "Remember 430", i.e. do you remember crossing that point of no return? "Richard and Linda", do you remember that Linda woman who dumped you after a night at a motel once upon a time? "Two Birds with One Stone", because it was two of you that crossed over, "You are far away", you've crossed back over. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning in this direction as well. When Cooper gets up to leave the lodge in the premiere, and is blocked by what we thought at the time (and maybe still is?) the doppleganger of the ARM, we thought the plan was going wrong, and because of this mistake, Cooper gets reincarnated as catatonic Dougie. In the finale, he goes out the "right" way. But what if the ARM was trying to help? He screams "NON-EXISTENCE!!!" at Cooper. And when Cooper looks through the portal, he sees the highway that he and Diane will take in the finale. Arguably, the highway that leads them to non-existence. In hindsight, it sounds more like a warning than a threat.
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Sep 6, 2017 08:59
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or maybe the two birds are the twin peaks universe and the richard universe, and cooper fixes both with laura
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Sep 6, 2017 08:59
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judy is the dreamer, guys. her being supernatural means her dreams have real power, though. the creation of the bogus world filled with lodge inhabitants and symbology, including its ending being broken by realizing its fakery cements it for me. when judy threw up bob the lodges also came into existence. during this series we get that added information that now these entities can travel through time, which would explain away any story inconsistencies about natives knowing about it. EA Sports fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 09:00
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I am way behind on keeping up with this thread because it's been moving way too fast, so I apologise if this is not anything new. It's not anything mindbending, but just something that occurred to me in discussing things with some friends that just sort of felt right. During the earlier parts of the season, people mentioned how the book "The Secret History of Twin Peaks" seemed to be inconsistent. It is being analysed by Tammy Preston under orders from Gordon Cole, with footnotes and notes in the margins. Supposedly it is something that she is reviewing AFTER the events of Season 3, but her comments seem to show no previous knowledge about Twin Peaks, Cooper, Briggs, etc. But we know in Season 3 that she should know about this stuff. So, my thinking is that in Ep 17 Cooper alters the timeline so that Laura wasn't murdered (and potentially never even existed?) and there wasn't an investigation. Possibly there wasn't even an Agent Cooper, as he may have taken himself out of existence from that perspective with his actions in Ep 17 and 18. BUT, Major Briggs had been to the lodges, so maybe that allowed him to drop the Dossier in the altered timeline so those people will know that something had happened to reality. Gordon reads about this investigation that didn't happen by an agent that possibly doesn't exist and realizes it's something important and puts Tammy Preston on it. Thus she has no knowledge of the events of Season 1-3 when analyzing the document. (And while editing this post I remembered that there are some other weird minor inconsistencies in the history given which might also be significant. Can't remember what they are off the top of my head though.) Aside from that, I'm still a bit lost. I'm basically back in the same place as the 20-some years before Season 3 was even announced. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on, and there may or may not ever be more information. I'm certain I won't get any concrete resolution, it's up to me to decide what it all means to me. Hopefully I can figure out some more about what everything means by talking to other people who are interested in figuring it out and understanding what it means to them. I think there's a metaphor here somewhere.
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Sep 6, 2017 09:15
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Just a quick aside since people are going on about the fireman putting out fires: The fireman has these steam engine bell things in his house. He doesn't put out fires. He's an engine stoking fireman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman_(steam_engine)
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Sep 6, 2017 09:21
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Baloogan posted:o poo poo i just realized, if cooper was destroyed in that alternate reality that collapsed at the end of 18, twin peaks ONLY has dougie but what if Richard is a tulpa sent by Cooper to trick the laws of the Lodge, just as Booper did in the first place? MIKE creates a tulpa from Booper's seed (which, as we saw with Dougie and "Diane" manifests in hedonism and/or rear end in a top hat behaviour) and Cooper's hair - Richard, as everyone has noted, shows elements of Cooper and Booper. At the same time, we don't see anything of Dougie beyond a brief reunion (with smiling Dougie!) - it could be Cooper going in witness protection of sorts. It does not jam with the themes or Cooper's character but anything goes when analyzing the ending.
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Sep 6, 2017 09:59
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fatherboxx posted:but what if Richard is a tulpa sent by Cooper to trick the laws of the Lodge, just as Booper did in the first place? Mr. Richard Gooper.
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Sep 6, 2017 10:10
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I really hope it wasn't anyone's dream. People have talked a lot about how the first two seasons can be about the cycles of abuse, trauma, the battle between good and evil, mysticism. Saying IT WAS ALL A DREAM is incredibly unsatisfactory, borderline pointless. Seriously, it was all a dream is on a par with characters realizing they're in a TV show for shittest storytelling device of all time. And I thought maybe they were going with that cos the final Audrey scene looked like it could be a dressing room. Fractured dimensions I can deal with (even though the only reason there are inconsistencies in the timeline is really only because Frost and Lynch don't really care about continuity). It just really bugs me if the show we watched and loved has been erased. Bring on S4! PLEASE OH GOD
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Sep 6, 2017 10:17
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https://twitter.com/immolations/status/904735662255067136
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Sep 6, 2017 11:15
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:I like how the Vegas FBI director screams at Wilson the same way Biff screams at George McFly in Back to the Future (another time travel story), although that probably wasn't intentional. That reminds me, there is a wonderful little bit after Bushnell gives Cole the message, and the FBI guys try to take it from him and he yanks it away from them with a pissed off,"The gently caress do you think you are?" look 
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Sep 6, 2017 12:33
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Obviously no one really knows the answer to this, but I've been thinking a lot about "Sarah Palmer is Judy/is possessed by Judy". What would that mean exactly? Is the implication that Sarah's trauma at losing a daughter to her rapist husband opened her up to Judy's "extreme negative force" or is the implication that Judy has always been a part of Sarah? If it's the former, it makes sense in the context of Sarah's emotions and behaviors from S1&2 and FWWM. If it's the latter, that makes Sarah's grief make less sense on the face of it. Also, if Judy is this all-powerful Lovecraftian negativity entity, what exactly is it getting out of living in the body of a broken old woman smoking cigarettes? At the moment, I sort of prefer the notion that Judy/jiaodai is more like an impersonal force, like Love or Evil. Major Briggs worries Love is not enough, Bob is described as the Evil men do, so perhaps Judy is simply Extreme Negativity. That could explain why every agent who tries to fight it ends up lost: it's not a being, it's a state of being. It would also mean Bob (Booper) doesn't know what it is either since Bob appears to be trying to find "her" when she's everywhere all the time, and maybe just eddies from time to time. (The cosmology of Twin Peaks is interesting, in fact almost gnostic in the sense that you have humans seeking special knowledge from higher beings (archons) that know more than them but less than even higher beings above them and/or act as gatekeepers preventing progress towards alternate realities.) Of course, Extreme Negativity could also be an electrical reference too. Electricity is all about opposites, reversals, and loops. Wikipidia posted:By historical convention, a positive current is defined as having the same direction of flow as any positive charge it contains, or to flow from the most positive part of a circuit to the most negative part. Current defined in this manner is called conventional current. The motion of negatively charged electrons around an electric circuit, one of the most familiar forms of current, is thus deemed positive in the opposite direction to that of the electrons. However, depending on the conditions, an electric current can consist of a flow of charged particles in either direction, or even in both directions at once. The positive-to-negative convention is widely used to simplify this situation. Who knows, man. What a ride this show is. That Dang Dad fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 12:37
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 She even looks like she's looking right at him!
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Sep 6, 2017 12:42
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Of all the weird bits in the final episodes the Diane/Naido thing still feels the most unnatural to me. She still feels like a constructed person, like a fantasy dream girl Cooper projects onto this blank person.
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Sep 6, 2017 12:44
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Alan_Shore posted:I really hope it wasn't anyone's dream. tbh I liked the show a lot better when the lodges and dimensional fuckery were in the background instead of the foreground. I really enjoyed the idea of a crime drama with assists from beyond our scope of reality both good and bad, but that went out the window with season 3. It started to happen in season 2 but this one really cemented it.
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Sep 6, 2017 12:47
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Alan_Shore posted:I really hope it wasn't anyone's dream.
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Sep 6, 2017 13:05
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On a rewatch, the big reunion scene after BOB is killed is so weird and unconfortable. First time I was to anxious to see what would happen to notice it more clearly, but is supposed to be a happy victory scene, that reunion everyone was expecting since episode 1, after the big defeat of the big bad guy. But it inst, because of Cooper's face imposed over it, looking at those events unfolding with a look of utmost despair and regret until he says that slow and sad "we are living on a dream", with those eyes the say "its all useless, its all an illusion here, we're trapped, we're all lost". That face was already making very clear that we would not have a happy end at all Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 13:08
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If Sarah Palmer is Judy then why doesn't she know what turkey jerky is Or do I need to go back and find out it says odessa or some poo poo
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Sep 6, 2017 13:23
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Turkey jerky, much like Judy, does not belong in this world
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Sep 6, 2017 13:24
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I don't know. Judy is pretty clearly shown to come from the trinity test. And if trauma is all it takes to create a supreme being of negative energy there should be a million judys being created around the world every day. and I think if judy is meant to represent any one word concept it's Entropy. she's the tendency for things to wind down, to end.
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Sep 6, 2017 13:27
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Did you guys know the guy who plays the giant is a musician? He's releasing a lessons DVD called fireman: rock with me
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Sep 6, 2017 13:37
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here's a question: if you could ask david lynch one question about this season and have it answered, excluding the very ending, what would it be? For me it would be - when does the post credits scene of the season, with the fireman and coop in the white lodge, take place? I really think that's the linchpin of everything
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Sep 6, 2017 13:42
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There's a Criterion blu-ray of FWWM coming out next month. I have no idea what the difference is between that and the current blu-ray.
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Sep 6, 2017 13:47
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CJacobs posted:tbh I liked the show a lot better when the lodges and dimensional fuckery were in the background instead of the foreground. I loved the new season for the most part but this is what I'm feeling too. The whole Judy thing was actually the part of the season I found the least emotionally compelling. Loved Sarah's scene at the liquor store, but having her inhabited by an interdimensional Mother of Violence drawn to Earth by the Trinity Test loses me. I know it's not meant to be taken literally and there's some good symbolism to the bomb unleashing a new era of emotional horror, but the story at face value just doesn't do anything for me.
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Sep 6, 2017 13:54
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redreader posted:Just a quick aside since people are going on about the fireman putting out fires: The fireman has these steam engine bell things in his house. He doesn't put out fires. He's an engine stoking fireman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman_(steam_engine) This remind me of a thing I: thought about a what this video explains better. Do we really know who's side Mike and the giant are on? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0vm_Yyygl4
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Sep 6, 2017 13:55
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...! posted:There's a Criterion blu-ray of FWWM coming out next month. I have no idea what the difference is between that and the current blu-ray. Apparently it's a newer restoration but I'm not really pushed getting it since the current version already looks brilliant.
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Sep 6, 2017 13:57
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RBX posted:This remind me of a thing I: thought about a what this video explains better. Do we really know who's side Mike and the giant are on? the fireman seems to be in the white lodge - probably good or at least benign. mike - used to hunt humans with bob, was fond of rape and murder - probably not of great character
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Sep 6, 2017 13:58
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Since the Complete Mystery box set is already out of print, there is no current blu ray.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:00
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Origami Dali posted:the Complete Mystery box set is already out of print, . Oh poo poo I didn't realise this. That sucks, those Blu Rays look amazing.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:02
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