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a neat cape posted:He's just not good at QB evaluation
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Dec 8, 2017 18:28
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SHOAH NUFF posted:He brought in an insane class of FA agents like Talib, Ward, Ware, Emmanuel Sanders, Wade Phillips and some others I'm forgetting. The main and only good thing Elway has done is that FA haul of 2013/2014. His drafts, handling of coaches, all that other stuff leaves a lot to be desired Yeah he's not terrible but between the offense being garbage and the horrendous QB situation and his lack of accountability it could be a worrisome situation. A lot's gonna depend on this next draft and whether they can get a QB worth a drat.
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Dec 8, 2017 18:53
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I wonder how much different the Broncos would be if they had completed that trade for Kaepernick last season. It would have changed football history!
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Dec 8, 2017 18:56
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:I wonder how much different the Broncos would be if they had completed that trade for Kaepernick last season. It would have changed football history! Or if they had promoted Adam Gase to HC and/or not pushed out Wade.
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Dec 8, 2017 18:58
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Thanks again for pushing Wade Phillips out Denver!
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Dec 8, 2017 19:00
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:I wonder how much different the Broncos would be if they had completed that trade for Kaepernick last season. It would have changed football history! I honestly think they'd be winning their division right now if they had. There were so many games this season that Siemian single-handedly lost.
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Dec 8, 2017 19:25
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a neat cape posted:He also basically turned the 2013 Offensive juggernaut Broncos who couldn't stop anyone into the 2015 defensive juggernaut team in two seasons. It was drat impressive. The complete process for accomplishing that: 1. Hire Wade Phillips as DC
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Dec 8, 2017 19:52
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Eric the Mauve posted:The complete process for accomplishing that: I dunno man, they had/have some pretty good pieces there too. But yeah the Son of Bum is real good.
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Dec 8, 2017 19:56
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GobiasIndustries posted:Yeah the Elway thing is real tough because he's not good at his job but he's also a franchise legend. If he wasn't named John Elway he would probably be seeing the door sometime soon but have fun explaining that move to the fans. Doesn't Elway also have minority ownership in the team?
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Dec 8, 2017 20:07
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I hope Elway gets completely drunk on power and just names himself head coach
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Dec 8, 2017 21:26
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Timby posted:Doesn't Elway also have minority ownership in the team?
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Dec 8, 2017 21:34
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Benne posted:I hope Elway gets completely drunk on power and just names himself quarterback
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Dec 8, 2017 21:35
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No Butt Stuff posted:I can't wait to see the details of that contract. It's weird that he would go to Cleveland of all places, unless he just really missed the rust belt. Have you seen the draft assets they have this year? 5 picks in the first two rounds and 100 million something in cap space with no lovely contracts besides Britt. Ive already seen an article in USA today saying Sashi will go down as the NFL version of Hinkie. Process 2.0 bitches. Other sports media sources have said the same thing. If Dorsey can identify talent as well as he has been the Browns might get somewhere for once. That roster is full of young talent that Hue Jackson is incapable of developing and i cant wait to see how he fucks up Josh Rosen next year. And someone mentioned Williams isnt without blame. Yeah having Peppers sometimes an actual 30 loving yards off the LOS is retarded given thats about the most useless thing you can do with his skillset but the defense does fairly well when the offense doesnt go 3 and out constantly or Kizer doesnt turn the ball over endlessly.
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Dec 8, 2017 21:37
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Eli Wiggum posted:In 1998, he was offered a 10% stake in the team but he turned it down: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14707017/john-elway-once-passed-chance-big-stake-denver-broncos-nfl This is the biggest indictment of his decision making.
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Dec 8, 2017 21:39
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Eli Wiggum posted:In 1998, he was offered a 10% stake in the team but he turned it down: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14707017/john-elway-once-passed-chance-big-stake-denver-broncos-nfl Wouldn't this have been illegal or have salary cap implications because Elway was still playing at the time?
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Dec 8, 2017 21:42
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DariusLikewise posted:Wouldn't this have been illegal or have salary cap implications because Elway was still playing at the time? Salary cap rules aren't something they concern themselves with.
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Dec 8, 2017 21:47
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DariusLikewise posted:Wouldn't this have been illegal or have salary cap implications because Elway was still playing at the time?
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Dec 8, 2017 21:51
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Yeah, it was something like (Al Davis version incoming) the Broncos circumvented the salary cap and owed something like $29m to Elway and Terrell Davis between '96-'98. At one point in there Pat Bowlen offers Elway a deal that would make him a minority owner of the team instead of paying him that cash. They ended up getting fined and losing a 3rd round draft pick and tainted those Broncos superbowls forever ever ever ever
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Dec 8, 2017 21:56
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GobiasIndustries posted:Yeah the Elway thing is real tough because he's not good at his job but he's also a franchise legend. If he wasn't named John Elway he would probably be seeing the door sometime soon but have fun explaining that move to the fans. Yeah, good luck with that.
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Dec 8, 2017 22:05
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Posted in NV but crossposting this quote here too because wowlolquote:Haslam doubled down on his support of Jackson. Regarding Hue's 1-27 record as Browns coach, Haslam said, "I wouldn't call that just Hue's record. I think that record is on all of us, including ownership." Haslam also said that Jackson's future in Cleveland is secure even beyond 2018: "We plan on Hue Jackson being our coach for a long time."
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Dec 8, 2017 22:16
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I think we've talked about it in the AFC West thread before, but Elway's main issue is that he's dreadful at evaluating offensive talent - IIRC most of his picks on that side of the ball have been total whiffs. You could mask that by signing guys like Manning and Welker and Vasquez, but since all those guys are done & retired, the lack of talent on that side of the ball is sorta glaring. He does have a very solid eye for evaluating defensive talent in the draft (Miller, Wolfe, Roby) but for whatever reason it hasn't translated to the offensive side of the ball.
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Dec 8, 2017 23:40
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It's easy to mock Elway for being a bad QB evaluator despite himself being a Hall of Fame QB, but don't underestimate personal projection in the scouting process. Elway made his fame and fortune being a tall white QB with a cannon arm, so it only makes sense that he'd look for a similar prototype. Hence Brock Osweiler in the second round (which I bet he thought was a total steal), and Paxton Lynch in the first round, both tall white guys with cannon arms. Whether they can actually play doesn't matter, they "looked the part" and that matters to a former player GM clearly trying to build a team in his image.
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Dec 9, 2017 08:22
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Benne posted:Elway made his fame and fortune being a tall white QB. Only 6'3 actually, which even back then was pretty typical for a starting QB.
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Dec 9, 2017 08:46
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It's actually unsurprising to me that Elway wouldn't be able to evaluate QBs. ESPN did that big piece on him before the 2016 season started and it mentions that one of the reasons why he never became a coach or whatever is because he basically couldn't teach other QBs about what made him great. Elway, whether you loved or (rightfully, if you rooted for other AFCW teams) hated him, was one of the most physically talented QBs to play the sport and so that was the reason why so much of his desperate late-game improv poo poo essentially worked. It also helped him that most of the Denver teams he played on over his career were largely well above average on defense, relative to the rest of the league, so he could afford to play like wet dogshit for stretches in games as he was won't to do. (the contrast between him and, say, Marino in that regard is pretty telling)
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Dec 9, 2017 13:05
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The fact that the defenses were pretty good in a lot of those years have made me kind of dislike Elway a little just because of the media narrative that he was carrying bad teams on his back for his career. There were a lot of flaws on those teams and Reeves wasn't a good coach, but I always wonder how much that narrative has kept some of the other stud players who were on those teams like Mecklenburg and Atwater from getting as much recognition as they should.
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Dec 9, 2017 19:22
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Speaking of Elway, I was playing nfl blitz 2000 with some friends a couple weeks ago. That was back before I paid much attention to the NFL outside of Tennessee and Atlanta. It took me a couple games to realize the McCaffrey that Elway kept throwing to is probably Christian's father?
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Dec 9, 2017 20:48
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The Big Jesus posted:Speaking of Elway, I was playing nfl blitz 2000 with some friends a couple weeks ago. That was back before I paid much attention to the NFL outside of Tennessee and Atlanta. It took me a couple games to realize the McCaffrey that Elway kept throwing to is probably Christian's father? Yup I loving hated Ed McCaffrey
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Dec 9, 2017 20:54
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Benne posted:Yup 
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Dec 9, 2017 21:50
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Its small because its old, but lmfao
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Dec 9, 2017 21:57
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Its small because its old, but Owns.
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Dec 9, 2017 22:22
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Its small because its old, but lol that's great.
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Dec 9, 2017 23:41
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https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/08/nfl-coaching-candidates-josh-mcdaniel-david-shaw-pat-fitzgerald-matt-patricia top 10 young (under 50) coaching prospects: quote:10. Panthers defensive coordinator Steve Wilks, who interviewed with the Rams last year and has led Carolina’s rebound from 2016 on his side of the ball.
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Dec 9, 2017 23:42
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Zerilan posted:The fact that the defenses were pretty good in a lot of those years have made me kind of dislike Elway a little just because of the media narrative that he was carrying bad teams on his back for his career. There were a lot of flaws on those teams and Reeves wasn't a good coach, but I always wonder how much that narrative has kept some of the other stud players who were on those teams like Mecklenburg and Atwater from getting as much recognition as they should. I think a lot of why those Denver defenses aren't well regarded historically is because when they got to the SB, they got crushed hard - poo poo like hemorraging 35 points in a quarter to the Doug Williams-led Redskins or Wade's defense in '89 giving up the most points in a SB ever. (The funny thing about that is the Broncos were the best scoring defense in the league by a fair distance that season - it's just the Niner team they went up against was an all-timer) Still though, those Broncos teams generally had very good defenses, both in talent and coaching - Joe Collider was the Broncos' DC for like 20 years and they were among the stingest groups on that side of the ball over that time span. (I mean, right there with teams like the Steelers, Cowboys etc) And Wade certainly coached the hell out of some of those teams during his first stint in Denver. It's a lot easier for a QB to be able to grind and scrape out wins when you can trust your defense to actually get a stop and get you the ball back late in games, which is pretty much what the Reeves/Elway Broncos did for like a decade.
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Dec 9, 2017 23:54
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Doug Williams owned
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Dec 10, 2017 01:35
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Its small because its old, but god dammit his son is trash
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Dec 10, 2017 02:42
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Isn't there another McCaffrey son hanging out there somewhere? I swear they're becoming the Plumlees of football.
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Dec 10, 2017 05:57
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Yep, Max McCaffrey plays WR and bounced around from the Raiders to Packers practice squads the last 2 years
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Dec 10, 2017 06:44
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Jack Del Huevos posted:Yep, Max McCaffrey plays WR and bounced around from the Raiders to Packers practice squads the last 2 years  I think he did some return duty but eventually got cut for the current returner, who has one catch for 8 yards. Oh and a punt return for a TD.
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Dec 10, 2017 07:26
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Max had 1 catch for 3 yards for the Jaguars in like week 3 or something There's also one who plays QB who's still in college, I think at Michigan!
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Dec 10, 2017 07:53
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https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/939848301242994689
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