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I kind of feel like the Bhelen/Harrowmont is a badly done twist on the "Choose if the nice guy or ruthless guy becomes King" scenario. Like, players who play as nice/paragon Wardens would choose Harrowmont because he's nice to you, promised the deceased King on his deathbed he wouldn't let his son ascend, and curries favor by doing the traditional method of the Proving. Conversely, Bhelen most likely poisoned his own father, as well as assassinate his older brother and frames his other sibling for it. You also help him by back-room dealings and blackmail (that is most definitely forged). And then the epilogue comes and, whoops, you though Harrowmont would be a good King since he was such a nice and honorable guy but in actuality, he make things worse for Orzammar! It was actually the ruthless Bhelen who drags Orzammar to some prosperity. Even though very little in the game could lead you to believe Harrowmont is so tied down by honor and too nice to change Orzammar's lovely politics, or that Bhelen would actually want to enact reforms and needs to be as tyrannical to cut through all the red tape and traditions. It comes across like a troll than good storytelling since you can't really suss things out without hindsight.
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Apr 30, 2018 06:13
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I think it's more unfortunate that it's the only choice in the game that doesn't fall along typical RPG trope lines, and I think the only time in the series you can have a radically positive impact on society. I don't think there's any choices like that in DAI (where the big choice of who rules Orlais is just different shades of bad) or in DA2 (where literally everything you do actively makes the situation worse).
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Apr 30, 2018 06:20
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SgtSteel91 posted:I kind of feel like the Bhelen/Harrowmont is a badly done twist on the "Choose if the nice guy or ruthless guy becomes King" scenario. I played a completely paragon character and knew Harrowmont was no good. I chose Bhelen. This was without any outside information, so I don't think it's as opaque as people are making it out.
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Apr 30, 2018 06:47
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SgtSteel91 posted:I kind of feel like the Bhelen/Harrowmont is a badly done twist on the "Choose if the nice guy or ruthless guy becomes King" scenario. What? It's obvious how much things suck, and supporting the business as usual candidate isn't likely to change things.
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Apr 30, 2018 07:19
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Randaconda posted:What? It's obvious how much things suck, and supporting the business as usual candidate isn't likely to change things. We all pick Bhelen because we know what the epilogue slides say. Ingame it's presented as the honorable dude vs the scheming poo poo. Granted I've never played a dwarf, so maybe it's more obvious then.
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Apr 30, 2018 08:59
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If my memory serves, the strongest origin-agnostic indicator that you get that Bhelen is the guy to go with is one of Harrowmont's propagandists warning that he's too friendly with the casteless.
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Apr 30, 2018 09:04
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The Crotch posted:If my memory serves, the strongest origin-agnostic indicator that you get that Bhelen is the guy to go with is one of Harrowmont's propagandists warning that he's too friendly with the casteless. Both of them spew so much nonsense that it's hard to take anything they say at face value, without going to meta-gaming. Anyhow, in Return to Ostagar, should I bring Alistair or Loghain? Don't think I've ever taken Loghain there, so I'm tempted to do it now. Smol fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 13:03
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Smol posted:Both of them spew so much nonsense that it's hard to take anything they say at face value, without going to meta-gaming. If you haven't seen it, then bring Loghain, and especially Wynn too. They have great banter with each other during Return to Ostagar.
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Apr 30, 2018 13:17
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I'm sure that most people in the original thread picked Harrowmont and were mad that he was the poo poo option. Because it just doesn't give you an idea. There's a nice guy and a jerk guy so you pick the nice one, like in all RPGs!
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Apr 30, 2018 14:23
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Man, I had kinda forgot how lovely character Oghren is. I feel bad for finishing his quest.
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Apr 30, 2018 19:21
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Wolfsheim posted:I totally forgot Harrowmont dies in his epilogue too, but at least he did it doing what he loved...destroying trade for no reason, giving all remaining wealth to the nobles and punishing the severely impoverished for existing Seems somehow familiar!  Raygereio posted:Granted I've never played a dwarf, so maybe it's more obvious then. There's your problem right there. Dwarves are always rad, unlike those treehugging knife ears. You have to be a crafty as a dwarf (or an Orleasian) to pick up on dwarf politics.
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Apr 30, 2018 20:52
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Smol posted:Both of them spew so much nonsense that it's hard to take anything they say at face value, without going to meta-gaming.
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Apr 30, 2018 21:39
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The Crotch posted:Yeah, it was very much a "Nancy Pelosi signed a pact with the Black Panthers in 1969 to bring gay communism to America; vote Mitt Romney to stop her devil-weed agenda." sort of situation. What is the Shaperate if not binders full of women?
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Apr 30, 2018 21:41
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I remember going with Bhelen the first playthrough because I got this scene when I had Zevran in the party. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Ccoka4nwk It sounded convincing to me
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May 1, 2018 01:32
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Crow Jane posted:What is the Shaperate if not binders full of women? Binders full of weird minutiae. The appendix of dwarf society.
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May 1, 2018 02:28
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Out of no where, there's two more DA tie-ins coming out. An addition to the table top RPG, and a special edition of the second tie-in book. I'm thinking all this new stuff is part of the lead up to DA4.
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May 2, 2018 06:43
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Smol posted:Man, I had kinda forgot how lovely character Oghren is. I feel bad for finishing his quest. He was fine, and then Awakening happened.
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May 2, 2018 06:49
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ApplesandOranges posted:He was fine, and then Awakening happened. I was doing his personal quest in Origins and kept questioning myself, why exactly am I helping this creepy drunkard? If anything, I should be telling Felsi to stay away from him.
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May 2, 2018 07:56
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ApplesandOranges posted:He was fine, and then Awakening happened. And then Awakening happened and he was the exact same.
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May 2, 2018 08:33
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Nichael posted:Out of no where, there's two more DA tie-ins coming out. An addition to the table top RPG, and a special edition of the second tie-in book. I'm thinking all this new stuff is part of the lead up to DA4. That's actually pretty good news for a DA4, yeah. Also I dunno if Oghren is so much worse in Awakening as he is one of the first party members in a smaller crew instead of coming along probably last when the player probably already has a regular crew they specced out to work together well.
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May 2, 2018 11:26
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SubponticatePoster posted:I'm waiting for Hard in Hightown. It comes out in a couple of months. poo poo, now I have to change the name of my sexy fanfiction
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May 5, 2018 01:35
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Had to pause the game for a while, since I’m not really sure if I want to perform the Dark a ritual this time. It doesn’t really make sense for my character, but on the other hand, more Simon Templeman in DA:I. 
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May 5, 2018 14:34
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Smol posted:Had to pause the game for a while, since I’m not really sure if I want to perform the Dark a ritual this time. It doesn’t really make sense for my character, but on the other hand, more Simon Templeman in DA:I. You can also do The Ultimate Sacrifice Not like The Warden is going to appear again
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May 7, 2018 23:02
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I finished reading The Stoken Throne. I feel like it could’ve been a decent book if it was twice as long and didn’t just skip over so many events. “Show, don’t tell” essentially. As it is, there is just far too much time skipping, so Gaider fails to sell the reader on Maric’s supposedly legendary charisma, why Rowan was interesting or what actually happened in one of Ferelden’s most important events, the Battle of River Dane.
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May 10, 2018 00:59
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ApplesandOranges posted:Huh, that's actually kinda nice. Kaidan's "coming out" dialogue is one of the best things about ME3, for sure.
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May 10, 2018 04:28
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precision posted:Kaidan's "coming out" dialogue is one of the best things about ME3, for sure. Precision, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Kaiden was a good friend before he exploded in the first game.
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May 10, 2018 05:58
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Kaidan's complete turnaround in ME3 was one of the most remarkable things about that game, his voice actor really sold the whole "very obviously suffering from PTSD" angle.
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May 10, 2018 09:18
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Is ME3 hard to get into as someone who's never played the series and is bad with shooters, because I kinda want to try the romances but not invested enough for the whole series.
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May 10, 2018 11:17
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Both 2 and 3 (if I'm remembering correctly) have intro sequences that summarise important events from the previous games, but 2 is far superior to 3 so start there imo
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May 10, 2018 11:21
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If you have to start with 3 then yes, I think it's pretty easy to get into. You'll meet a few characters who think they know you already and miss a few unimportant references, but the game explains the basic setting pretty well at the start. If you don't like shooting, engineers in particular have some spells (or whatever ME calls them, I forget) that greatly reduce the necessity.
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May 10, 2018 11:33
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Seems kind of weird to want to do the romances without playing previous games. All that character development happens before 3. In fact, I don't even know who you'd start a romance with in the third game. I think starting at 2 would be much better, since most of the characters first appear in that one.
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May 10, 2018 12:13
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The Mass Effect series kinda really expects you to have hosed the blue alien spacebabe from the get-go since Liara’s whole romance arc is by far the most developed and integrated into the main story.
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May 10, 2018 12:24
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Precision, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Kaiden was a good friend before he exploded in the first game. If you let Ashley live then you're a racist, sorry.
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May 10, 2018 12:45
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exquisite tea posted:Liara’s whole romance arc is by far the most developed and integrated into the main story. Maybe this is true if you have the Shadow broker DLC, but otherwise I really disagree. In ME2 there is actual 'I cannot trust you' drama with Kaidan/Ashley, while Liara is just 'sorry, I'm busy right now'. In ME3 K/A have hospital reconciliation scenes, with Liara you get 'do you still care for me? Oh good'.
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May 10, 2018 12:51
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If you don’t have the Shadow Broker DLC then you don’t have ME2 imho.
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May 10, 2018 12:52
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But what I really meant was that Liara’s motivations in ME2 make absolutely zero sense if she wasn’t in love with Shepard.
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May 10, 2018 12:56
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exquisite tea posted:If you don’t have the Shadow Broker DLC then you don’t have ME2 imho. I've never played any of the DLC for any of the modern Bioware games other than Inquisition. It comes out so much after the main game that by then I've uninstalled it and moved on. Inquisition having cloud saves meant they were kept so it wasn't a big deal to have another bash after the price got cut. I think a big part of it is also the enormous gap there's been between releases this time.
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May 10, 2018 12:59
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exquisite tea posted:The Mass Effect series kinda really expects you to have hosed the blue alien spacebabe from the get-go since Liara’s whole romance arc is by far the most developed and integrated into the main story. Another fun bit of trivia - Liara is the only romance option with a unique body model when romanced. Ashley, Traynor, and Shepard have exactly the same body from the neck down, as do Kaidan, Cortez, and Shepard. Then the other romance options are never seen nude. Liara, though, gets a substantially longer sex scene than everyone else and has a unique model for it. Liara's character makes no goddamn sense in general. She's a completely different character between 1 and 2, and the game never really reconciles the "shy, innocent girl next door" with "badass and street-savvy femme fatale." Hi, Leliana.
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May 10, 2018 13:58
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Taear posted:If you let Ashley live then you're a racist, sorry. LOL when I played ME1 the first time I had no idea wtf to do with anyone or anything and I intentionally went in blind with no guide or anything. I let Kaidan die for the sole reason that I had no idea if any of the non-soldier classes were any good so I was like "sorry dude she has a higher combat stat. peace". Imagine my surprise at Ashley 2.0
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May 10, 2018 14:48
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Elephant Ambush posted:LOL when I played ME1 the first time I had no idea wtf to do with anyone or anything and I intentionally went in blind with no guide or anything. I let Kaidan die for the sole reason that I had no idea if any of the non-soldier classes were any good so I was like "sorry dude she has a higher combat stat. peace". I dunno what you mean by Ashley 2.0. I've only had her in the first game and she was a big anti-alien racist in that one.
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May 10, 2018 15:08
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