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CharlestheHammer posted:We also know very little about the Parthians or even the Gauls. What? The romans talk about the Gauls from the first sack of Rome up until the western empire fell. There’s plenty of documentation on Gaul/Iberia/Anatolia. India.... not so much. Ya know why? It had nothing to do with Rome during the time period the game is set in.
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Jul 23, 2018 18:58
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yea really silly poo poo like that. It's one thing to buy a game about the Roman empire and be pleasantly surprised with how much of the rest of the world is fleshed out, it's quite another to actively bitch about the fact that they've not included enough unrelated stuff in the first release. If they released the game and didn't include Rome at all, it would be incredibly stupid and misleading because of the name of the game. People would feel actively mislead. The name does matter and it's absurd to say otherwise. How much content they include outside of the central, mandatory Rome theme is down to development time and engine constraints. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and when you look at that world map, you can see precisely where it was drawn. It is certain to be moved further out as they release expansions, but for now you're going to have to live with a game about Rome being primarily about Rome.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:00
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CharlestheHammer posted:Nah that is basically the logical conclusion of that blade dudes argument. Paradox should call it Call of Duty 5 since names literally don't matter at all. Also, it should have all of the world because cutting it off at any point is an evil eurocentrist mindset. That's just the logical conclusion of your argument! You silly shitposter. A Buttery Pastry posted:and it might end up being better for gameplay, if the region wasn't really home to such tiny polities to take advantage of tiny provinces. Was Europe home to them though? Or rather, what do we gain in gameplay from having a million tiny tribes represented?
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Jul 23, 2018 19:01
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tiny tribes own, fucker
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Jul 23, 2018 19:01
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India would be cooler if the date was a bit earlier and you could play one of the various odd republican city states across the north or do the rise of the Mayurians
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Jul 23, 2018 19:02
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:What? The romans talk about the Gauls from the first sack of Rome up until the western empire fell. There’s plenty of documentation on Gaul/Iberia/Anatolia. India.... not so much. Ya know why? It had nothing to do with Rome during the time period the game is set in. Not really? Like we don’t even know for sure if the famous Brennus that sacked Rome was a person or a title. Plus it’s not like the Romans cared about explaining how these societies operated or even calling them the right names. We know some general stuff but for a game that’s gonna have to model how a government functions....not so much. Hell we probably know more about India than Gaul or Iberia.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:03
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Chalks posted:It's one thing to buy a game about the Roman empire and be pleasantly surprised with how much of the rest of the world is fleshed out, it's quite another to actively bitch about the fact that they've not included enough unrelated stuff in the first release. The line is drawn.....at India. Glad we agree on this point. So your conclusion doesn’t exactly track here.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:05
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GrossMurpel posted:Paradox should call it Call of Duty 5 since names literally don't matter at all. Also, it should have all of the world because cutting it off at any point is an evil eurocentrist mindset. That's just the logical conclusion of your argument! You silly shitposter. A Europa Universalis approach? That would be cool yeah.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:07
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why can't the dates go into the modern day and have all the tech into the internet age
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Jul 23, 2018 19:07
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CharlestheHammer posted:The line is drawn.....at India. Glad we agree on this point. OK, so, to be clear, the "line" here is a figurative line where they decided how much development time they could devote where, which resulted in Indian provinces being less fleshed out than ones closer to Rome. Not a literal line that they drew and everything inside it has to be to exactly the same level of detail. That would be silly.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:10
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Flavius Aetass posted:why can't the dates go into the modern day and have all the tech into the internet age Serious question, will I be able to play as Napoleon in this game? Titles don’t matter.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:12
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Chalks posted:OK, so, to be clear, the "line" here is a figurative line where they decided how much development time they could devote where, which resulted in Indian provinces being less fleshed out than ones closer to Rome. That seems like a big assumption from the release of one map insanely early in development. SnoochtotheNooch posted:Serious question, will I be able to play as Napoleon in this game? Titles don’t matter. Man Victoria must have hosed with you hard considering how little that game cared about Victoria.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:That seems like a big assumption from the release of one map insanely early in development. Sure, but an assumption based on exactly the same info being used to moan about the lack of fleshed out Indian provinces, so hopefully you'll allow me that.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:18
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Chalks posted:Sure, but an assumption based on exactly the same info being used to moan about the lack of fleshed out Indian provinces, so hopefully you'll allow me that. I actually do agree with you there, I just think the people obsessed with the title thing is dumb. I am willing to let more time pass to see how much more India is fleshed out before assuming it will be ignored.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:20
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CharlestheHammer posted:That seems like a big assumption from the release of one map insanely early in development. I feel like someone has already said why that’s a stupid argument in a way that won’t get me probated from another paradox thread. I don’t think anyone is suggesting no effort should go into anything other than Rome. But most people I feel would expect that to come with future updates, much like ck2 was all about feudal Europe, at first. And eu4 was all about the Hre, at first. But saying that the title of something is meaningless is completely retarded. ‘Rome: Imperator - an anime tentacle porn where Amiko Gogomi reclaims her brothers lost virginity’
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Jul 23, 2018 19:25
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I feel like someone has already said why that’s a stupid argument in a way that won’t get me probated from another paradox thread. I don’t think anyone is suggesting no effort should go into anything other than Rome. But most people I feel would expect that to come with future updates, much like ck2 was all about feudal Europe, at first. And eu4 was all about the Hre, at first. But saying that the title of something is meaningless is completely retarded. ‘Rome: Imperator - an anime tentacle porn where Amiko Gogomi reclaims her brothers lost virginity’ Titles in grand strategy games generally are meaningless. Like an example Rome 2 total war grand campaign doesn’t actually focus that much on Rome, outside DLC, and is more framing a than a mission statement.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:28
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Has Paradox ever released data on how many people play in India in CK2? I always got the impression it was not very many so even aside from this dumb debate about the title of the game I’m surprised to see they are including India. I know nothing about India during this time period so I’m not exactly chomping at the bit to play there, for what it’s worth.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:28
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Bold Robot posted:Has Paradox ever released data on how many people play in India in CK2? I always got the impression it was not very many so even aside from this dumb debate about the title of the game I’m surprised to see they are including India. I know nothing about India during this time period so I’m not exactly chomping at the bit to play there, for what it’s worth. Alexander went quite far in that direction, I believe, and it would be really odd to include northern India but not the south.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:35
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Chalks posted:Alexander went quite far in that direction, I believe, and it would be really odd to include northern India but not the south. Plus the Romans were constantly trying to get around Parthian directly trade with India. Before things went to poo poo it was a big deal for the emperors.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:37
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CharlestheHammer posted:Man Victoria must have hosed with you hard considering how little that game cared about Victoria. But Victoria was all about the Victorian era. It was centred on things like society being reorganised according to the needs of industrial capitalism, colonialism by the Great Powers, and technological advancement.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:40
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Enjoy posted:But Victoria was all about the Victorian era. It was centred on things like society being reorganised according to the needs of industrial capitalism, colonialism by the Great Powers, and technological advancement. I’m aware almost like the title was more framing a time period rather than a mission statement for the game itself.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:51
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 I'm 100% sure that this bit of grain in India is multiple provinces with the same trade good, because that's a loving crazy province otherwise.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:54
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catlord posted:
Yeah, you can see a bunch of other provinces like that too, either there are some really strange shapes out there or labels are shared between bordering resources that match. You would expect at least some provinces to border each other with the same resource in this screenshot (although I've not been over the whole of the larger one) but none seem to.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:57
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you guys do know that rome literally owned a little trading town in south india right? and that every emperor from augustus until the crisis of the third century sent enormous annual trade fleets from the red sea to india? india was not a huge mystery to the romans in the way that china was, although the upper class doesn't seem to have been enthusiastic about going on these voyages so we don't have detailed accounts Jazerus fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 20:33
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I think a lot of people forgot that when CK2 first came out a hundred years ago, you could literally only play as Christian nobles. You had to buy DLC to play as Muslim characters or patricians.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:35
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Argh I want to be angry/not angry about game titles literally meaning everything/meaning nothing forever!
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Jul 23, 2018 20:38
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also we do know about indian history in this time period. from, y'know, the indians themselves. they wrote poo poo down, these are not pre-literate tribesmen we're talking about where the only available records are from a roman or greek perspective
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Jul 23, 2018 20:43
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Jazerus posted:you guys do know that rome literally owned a little trading town in south india right?
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Jul 23, 2018 20:49
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It's perfectly fine for the base version of Imperator to focus mostly on Rome. It looks like they're getting more than enough content out of it to make for a great game, anyways. But man, there's gotta be a Warring States DLC at some point. There's more demand for it than there was India in CK2, anyways, and its less alien to the base gameplay than medieval China is to CK2's feudalism.
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Jul 23, 2018 20:50
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Strudel Man posted:Really? I haven't heard of that before. What town? it was similar to the 'factories' the europeans set up in hiroshima for trade with japan during the seclusion period; a few buildings, a port, and a temple to augustus. it was in muziris, which is thought to have been a city in kerala 
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Jul 23, 2018 20:53
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Jazerus posted:also we do know about indian history in this time period. from, y'know, the indians themselves. they wrote poo poo down, these are not pre-literate tribesmen we're talking about where the only available records are from a roman or greek perspective
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Jul 23, 2018 20:54
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Jazerus posted:it was similar to the 'factories' the europeans set up in hiroshima for trade with japan during the seclusion period; a few buildings, a port, and a temple to augustus. it was in muziris, which is thought to have been a city in kerala
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Jul 23, 2018 21:01
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Strudel Man posted:Wikipedia at least doesn't suggest that they owned it, just that it was a trading port used by Roman merchants, some of whom would have remained on a semi-permanent basis. yeah it's probably more accurate to say that roman citizens owned property there, after further consideration still, it's a permanent presence that was important to both rome and the south indian kingdoms
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Jul 23, 2018 21:03
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Jazerus posted:yeah it's probably more accurate to say that roman citizens owned property there, after further consideration
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Jul 23, 2018 21:04
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It may have been more like cherson were it was vaguely in the Roman orbit but was left mostly to its own devices.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:07
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Put in China so I can conquer the roman republic as a south chinese minor.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:19
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I'm interested if there's going to be some kind of colonization system, seeing as how that was a pretty big thing back in ancient times. Most of the big successful city states spawned colonies at some point. Also mass migration and nomadic societies. Those were pretty important.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:34
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Historiography wasn't really an art in India until the Muslim invasions introduced it to the subcontinent. The stuff we see written down from the Mauryan era is mostly religious and philosophical works. These can tell you a lot about a civilization, to be clear, but the kind of high level political stuff Paradox games thrive on, there's not too much. Ashoka the Great ruled one of the largest empires of antiquity but the only contemporary sources of his reign are the pillars he constructed bearing his edicts. There was no Herodotus basically.
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Jul 23, 2018 21:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm interested if there's going to be some kind of colonization system, seeing as how that was a pretty big thing back in ancient times. Most of the big successful city states spawned colonies at some point. This seems particularly plausible given how many provinces there are. Having all of those provinces filled with minor nations everywhere would perhaps be a bit much, so maybe lots of space for migration and expansion?
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Jul 23, 2018 21:45
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Chalks posted:This seems particularly plausible given how many provinces there are. Having all of those provinces filled with minor nations everywhere would perhaps be a bit much, so maybe lots of space for migration and expansion? That would make sense but the AI has to be aggressive with it or it will get towards the first game which felt empty
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Jul 23, 2018 21:46
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