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Bholder posted:Yes they will use the same Gamebryo engine they used since Morrowind, that is exactly what's happening, that is exactly what Gamebryo means. It is the same engine, in terms of its core functionality. There are tons of things they just cannot do, or can't make less clunky, because the engine doesn't support it. They're acting like being a modular engine with easy world creation is some major feat, when literally everyone has that now, and nobody else has all the crippling limitations that Bethesda does.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:38
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K8.0 posted:It is the same engine, in terms of its core functionality. There are tons of things they just cannot do, or can't make less clunky, because the engine doesn't support it. They're acting like being a modular engine with easy world creation is some major feat, when literally everyone has that now, and nobody else has all the crippling limitations that Bethesda does. CD Projekt Red had to build an entire new engine just to embarrass Todd
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Nov 23, 2018 22:39
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I don't know why when all you need to set him off is just say "I like Fallout: New Vegas" in his general vicinity.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:41
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Skyrim being popular hurt the company.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:43
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ES06 has become impossible because the dragons in that game completely render the program unable to run, yet Skyrim was liked. They need more dragon!
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Nov 23, 2018 22:44
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Bardeh posted:Nobody actually thinks that, though. What's undeniable is that whatever they want to call it, the tech their games are built on is simply not fit for purpose anymore, and their track record suggests that they're not gonna magically transform it for their next game. I would love to be proved wrong, but I'm not optimistic. I have delved deep into gamebryo hell both on the modding side and the script extending disassembly side. Morrowind is oblivion is fallout is skyrim. These engines are fundamentally the same, which is why many tools can be easily ported to each other. The framework of modability and level design is great, its always been great. But thats where gamebryo ends and bethesda begins. Look at other gamebryo games like civilization 4. Moddable and fantastic, it was meant for things like this. It wasnt meant for speedtree and physics to be stapled to it, and unfortunately those are 100% bethesdas job. The fundamental game logic has not changed since morrowind, and there isnt a good way to fix that without pouring millions into engine development. Bethesda isnt a scrappy upstart developer. Spend the money, Todd.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:45
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It's not just the tech, it's the people to work on it. Watch any interview of Bethesda staff and you'll see geriatrics that have been there 10+ years fumbling through fitting tilesets together. Their employees aren't tech savvy in the least. Simultaneously, they have a great company culture.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:53
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K8.0 posted:It is the same engine, in terms of its core functionality. There are tons of things they just cannot do, or can't make less clunky, because the engine doesn't support it. They're acting like being a modular engine with easy world creation is some major feat, when literally everyone has that now, and nobody else has all the crippling limitations that Bethesda does. I still don't know what these crippling limitations are supposed to be. If anything there is a limitation it's Bethesda's decision to make literally every item in the game interactable. An apple on table in Witcher is just a physics object, in Bethesda games you can pick up almost everything as an inventory item and even use them, not to mention the NPCs who are full actors no different from the player character. Not sure if they should even change that, last time they streamlined things by removing the option to take off your pants people got mad...
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Nov 23, 2018 22:53
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the engine is crippling because you can only load 256 total esps/esms and that might not be enough to fix all of the dumb poo poo bethesda put in for future games and now i can't even load in my anime titty mods
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Nov 23, 2018 23:00
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Bholder posted:I still don't know what these crippling limitations are supposed to be. If anything, people's willingness to attribute the faults and flaws to vague and poorly misunderstood 'engine issues' allows Bethesda to dodge a great deal of flak for their own mishandling of time and resources on a project. They take a 'hit' to 'credibility' because "Oh it's the same engine from 400 years ago" and people attach to that idea so strongly they don't look any further or deeper.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:04
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The limitations that their awful animation system alone imposes restrict an enormous amount of stuff. Why do you think that the only time you see custom animations in any Bethesda game is when the game is 100% on rails? It's because making them is a massive pain in the rear end because the engine is a pile of poo poo. Other games have been properly blending animations for forever, and transitioning smoothly from those blended animations to actors on rails for over a decade. You can't even really make the argument that they're keeping it that way for modability, because modders generally avoid doing animations because the system is so incredibly terrible. Being able to pick up physics objects does not lead to limitations. Almost every game these days lets the player spawn/despawn physics objects in one way or another.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:05
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The animations have nothing to do with the engine
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Nov 23, 2018 23:09
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i am tim! posted:It’s alright but yeah, it’s not as good as the other three. I love some of the gear in it, though. I don’t much care for Ulysses. The problem with Ulysses is that he has completely disappeared up his own rear end. A very philosophical, big-picture obsessed enemy is not a bad idea, but Ulysses comes off like a sophomore year Philosophy student desperate to show off how smart he is.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:12
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On a serious note, the last time I played skyrim I did have around 20-30 esps/esms dedicated to fixing broken poo poo or just being related to quality of life improvements. That also doesn't include needing a third party program to launch the game(script extender), a third party program to clean up the base files of the game and remove redundant or broken poo poo(wrye bash), and then loving around with some ini files. This is also without having a mod manager, load order sorter, and tes5edit, but that is more or less for making sure mods run conflict free. But the first stuff that I stated are the things I need to do in order to make skyrim stable and to avoid a bunch of graphical bugs. That shouldn't have to be normal for an open world game.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:20
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Negative FO76 reviews are old hat already, but this guy's one pretty much sums it all up really nicely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L1UAglcaa0
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Nov 23, 2018 23:26
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Grinning Goblin posted:On a serious note, the last time I played skyrim I did have around 20-30 esps/esms dedicated to fixing broken poo poo or just being related to quality of life improvements. That also doesn't include needing a third party program to launch the game(script extender), a third party program to clean up the base files of the game and remove redundant or broken poo poo(wrye bash), and then loving around with some ini files. This is also without having a mod manager, load order sorter, and tes5edit, but that is more or less for making sure mods run conflict free. But the first stuff that I stated are the things I need to do in order to make skyrim stable and to avoid a bunch of graphical bugs. That shouldn't have to be normal for an open world game. Actually those are pretty normal for open world games, most don't get mods to fix them though.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:42
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Short of like random games made by three guys in Slovenia, Bethesda’s open world games are broken to a degree most others struggle to even come close to realising.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:49
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Comparing the tech development between bethesda and CD project its pretty dumb imo
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Nov 24, 2018 00:01
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gamebryo is just a rendering engine, it doesn't really do any of the gameplay or physics or anything. zoo tycoon, catherine, civ iv and epic mickey are all gamebryo engine game. But for some reason everyone has decided to blame all bad programming in besthedia on it.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:02
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Bholder posted:The animations have nothing to do with the engine If you insist on defining "game engine" as "none of the technical things Bethesda has been doing the same bad way for 16 years", then yes, Bethesda has a great engine. You're a genius! Owlofcreamcheese posted:gamebryo is just a rendering engine, it doesn't really do any of the gameplay or physics or anything. zoo tycoon, catherine, civ iv and epic mickey are all gamebryo engine game. But for some reason everyone has decided to blame all bad programming in besthedia on it. I think everyone knows this, but many still like to use it for a few historical reasons. One is that when Morrowind came out and was a mess, Bethesda tried to divert as much blame as possible to Gamebryo. The other is that Gamebryo did in fact deserve half the blame it got because it was an absolute piece of poo poo at the time, and would do stuff like magically wind triangles the opposite way of the mesh so they became invisible on random specific GPUs. The third is that the frameworks and interfaces Bethesda shoddily designed for use with Gamebryo have stuck around for 16 years (and now they're saying it will be 20), so it's even funnier to mock its historic shittiness. It's basically become a negative generic trademark for Bethesda's tech and gamebryo simultaneously.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:21
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:gamebryo is just a rendering engine, it doesn't really do any of the gameplay or physics or anything. zoo tycoon, catherine, civ iv and epic mickey are all gamebryo engine game. But for some reason everyone has decided to blame all bad programming in besthedia on it. yup all the programming they put into the engine to change it into what it is today is; bad
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Nov 24, 2018 00:26
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DoctorGonzo posted:Comparing the tech development between bethesda and CD project its pretty dumb imo video games are an art
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Nov 24, 2018 00:26
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If you really think even the animation engine is the same between Oblivon and Skyrim then something is wrong with you.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:29
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Bholder posted:If you really think even the animation engine is the same between Oblivon and Skyrim then something is wrong with you. (it is)
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Nov 24, 2018 00:43
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Bardeh posted:Negative FO76 reviews are old hat already, but this guy's one pretty much sums it all up really nicely. This odd british man says beeta and not beta.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:49
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i saw the power armor and i clapped at the screen. just absolutely phenominal how they keep managing to do this, incredible really.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:50
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Rinkles posted:Lonesome Road really isn't very good Lonesome Road is a really good dungeon crawl and the stuff they did with ED-E is great, but Ulysses falls flat if you treat him as anything other than a deluded nutjob who spergs out on misinterpreting history while trying to sound profound. I appreciate that Obsidian gave the player an option to ignore their lovingly crafted story of the Courier's secret past by saying "lol nope gently caress you Ulysses S. Crap, Imma nuke you!"
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Nov 24, 2018 00:55
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Siljmonster posted:(it is) Just ragdoll in both games and you will see the difference. I clearly remember them boasting about using a new edited third party animation engine with bells and whistles and everything. There's even a hit detection reaction that is turned off in the inis because it looks hilarious.
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Nov 24, 2018 00:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:Lonesome Road is a really good dungeon crawl and the stuff they did with ED-E is great, but Ulysses falls flat if you treat him as anything other than a deluded nutjob who spergs out on misinterpreting history while trying to sound profound. I appreciate that Obsidian gave the player an option to ignore their lovingly crafted story of the Courier's secret past by saying "lol nope gently caress you Ulysses S. Crap, Imma nuke you!" yeah. what the gently caress was his entire point. like i even remember Caesars "Hegelian dietetics will make my lovely rape slave army great super nation someday" but i don't remember Ulysses outside talking him down and then nuking the legion.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:14
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Ulysses's problem is that he was in the design oven from super early on in the game's development, then they redid a bunch of stuff, he lost his place in the base game, more things got changed, his whole deal ended up more contrived because of it and so on, he pretty much got put in a different game than he was originally made for.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:14
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Get this. They called the 9th (shush it) Fallout game Fallout 76.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:20
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I thought just occurred to me. I wonder how long it will be until someone treats this as a resource pack and ports the map and creatures to fallout 4. At least gameplay would be "alright" as opposed to "utter poo poo."
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Nov 24, 2018 01:36
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As Nero Danced posted:I thought just occurred to me. I wonder how long it will be until someone treats this as a resource pack and ports the map and creatures to fallout 4. At least gameplay would be "alright" as opposed to "utter poo poo." It would be literally the exact same except there would also be a bunch of NPCs who think that WV is Boston?
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Nov 24, 2018 01:40
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My memory is poo poo. Did melee weapons in previous Fallouts hit more than one enemy at a time if they were piled up in front of you? I usually run melee builds and seem to recall being able to smash through a crowd and hit multiple baddies with a single swing.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:40
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Yardbomb posted:Ulysses's problem is that he was in the design oven from super early on in the game's development, then they redid a bunch of stuff, he lost his place in the base game, more things got changed, his whole deal ended up more contrived because of it and so on, he pretty much got put in a different game than he was originally made for. I thought it was because Chris Avellone was super pissy and whiny about Fallout getting too deep into civilization and too far from when the bombs dropped, and used Ulysses as a mouthpiece to rant about all the things he hated in the setting. I really hate Chris Avellone and find him massively overrated.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:41
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GET MY BELT SON posted:My memory is poo poo. Did melee weapons in previous Fallouts hit more than one enemy at a time if they were piled up in front of you? I usually run melee builds and seem to recall being able to smash through a crowd and hit multiple baddies with a single swing.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:41
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Backhand posted:I thought it was because Chris Avellone was super pissy and whiny about Fallout getting too deep into civilization and too far from when the bombs dropped, and used Ulysses as a mouthpiece to rant about all the things he hated in the setting. actually its because ulysses was his npc from fallout van buren and they were going to use him no matter what god loving drat it nobody disrespects chris avellone
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Nov 24, 2018 01:43
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:The only time melee ever did this was through a perk introduced in Fallout 4. Thank you. I thought I was somehow making it up in my head. Miss that perk BAD
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Nov 24, 2018 01:44
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Magmarashi posted:It would be literally the exact same except there would also be a bunch of NPCs who think that WV is Boston? Well at least it wouldn't kick you out of the game because it lost connection to the server.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:45
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As Nero Danced posted:Well at least it wouldn't kick you out of the game because it lost connection to the server. It would still crash.
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Nov 24, 2018 01:49
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