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Cocoa Crispies posted:or the right answer, an end to personal automotive transportation being a required part of life in much of the industrialized world That answer is way to wholesome. E: I say, while sitting on a train to take me home to the countryside from the city where I work, getting ready to pedal home on my bike for the last 2 kilometers while the train advertises it's use of carbon neutral power. I remember I barely pay 250 Euro for a 6 month all access ticket to regional public transport. Combat Theory has issued a correction as of 14:11 on Dec 5, 2018 |
# ? Dec 5, 2018 14:05 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 10:56 |
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Combat Theory posted:That answer is way to wholesome. Not if we achieve it by the systematic prosecution and guillotining of everyone who purchases a vehicle with capabilities exceeding their day-to-day needs.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 14:12 |
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Combat Theory posted:That answer is way to wholesome. that rules
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 14:37 |
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Powershift posted:Yeah, so is using it in the hot or cold or other things. "Tesloop estimates that a Lincoln Town Car or Mercedes GLS class combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500 ($0.22/mile) and $98,900 ($0.25/mile) respectively over 400,000 miles." No way would an old Town Car cost that much to maintain, that's ridiculous. Even a GLS wouldn't cost that much. Especially if it was done in three years.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:15 |
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underage at the vape shop posted:Poor countries could grow those crops too though and bring wealth to the area Yeah because when poor countries have something the west wants it brings wealth to the poor areas. More like they get to toil the lands to grow like... inedible Petrol-synth-root for their local masters.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:19 |
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Sir Tonk posted:"Tesloop estimates that a Lincoln Town Car or Mercedes GLS class combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500 ($0.22/mile) and $98,900 ($0.25/mile) respectively over 400,000 miles." if you read on, they replaced the battery pack twice, both under warranty so the $.05/mile stat is fudged
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:24 |
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Shifty Pony posted:wonder if the solution might not be for a manufacturer to partner up with a rental company to offer a bank of a few weeks of an equivalent ICE loaner when you purchase. Don't know which one it was but when I was browsing manufacturers, one of them did this. You buy their EV you get a loaner a couple of weeks free of charge
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:26 |
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Sir Tonk posted:"Tesloop estimates that a Lincoln Town Car or Mercedes GLS class combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500 ($0.22/mile) and $98,900 ($0.25/mile) respectively over 400,000 miles." oh even better they posted a google doc with all the breakdowns https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HqBIOtNsYPalG51nAw_nubgskv4TQPGx8WhPZO4a_U8/edit?usp=drivesdk
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:28 |
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My grandfathers 15 year old Cadillac Fleetwood had an oil leak that they couldn’t find that burned a quart of oil a week. That thing was a garage queen in its end years.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:30 |
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exploded mummy posted:oh even better This doc is such fudged bullshit they figure full price for all the maintenance and gas on the gas cars but the teslas got a bunch of free warranty maintenance and free lifetime supercharging.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:34 |
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underage at the vape shop posted:Poor countries could grow those crops too though and bring wealth to the area doesn't focusing on cash crops in poor countries end up with them not having enough food anyways? lol p sure there's a few issues with that over sustenance farming for poor countries
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:43 |
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Lote posted:My grandfathers 15 year old Cadillac Fleetwood had an oil leak that they couldnt find that burned a quart of oil a week. That thing was a garage queen in its end years. should've spent $90k fixing it!
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:44 |
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Hub Cat posted:This doc is such fudged bullshit they figure full price for all the maintenance and gas on the gas cars but the teslas got a bunch of free warranty maintenance and free lifetime supercharging. yeah and if you're doing 400,000 miles in three years you're doing alot of highway miles. the town car gets close to 30mpg on the highway, not 20 oh and noone does oil changes at 3,000 miles unless theyre crazy, suggested has moved to 6,000 for most cars if not higher edit, lol the "fuel" cost for the teslas is only a few grand less than for the gas cars Sir Tonk has issued a correction as of 15:49 on Dec 5, 2018 |
# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:45 |
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Katt posted:The problem being that if we start using plants for vehicle fuel. The price of those plants will go up and farmers will start growing those instead of food and it will greatly effect people in poor countries. Pretty sure this already started happening about 10 years ago. Crop prices were insanely high, in part because of stuff like this. Crop prices have since crashed, fortunately/unfortunately depending on who you are.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 15:57 |
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sullat posted:Pretty sure this already started happening about 10 years ago. Crop prices were insanely high, in part because of stuff like this. Crop prices have since crashed, fortunately/unfortunately depending on who you are. The commodities prices bubble. AFAIK it has more to do with animal feed and financial speculation but yeah you can link it to whats helping brazil o be so unstable for example
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 17:05 |
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underage at the vape shop posted:Poor countries could grow those crops too though and bring wealth to the area Ah yes, because resource extraction has had such a stellar record at uplifting the developing world so far.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 17:09 |
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Powershift posted:Yeah, so is using it in the hot or cold or other things. so here is what I don't understand teslas super chargers are like 300v Porsche is saying they're using a 800v charger HOW I mean how the gently caress are they pulling that off without completely destroying the battery
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 17:22 |
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I'm going to assume some combination of "having tons of very good engineers" and "not being in a perpetual cash crunch to do research". Also, does porsche participate in Formula E?
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 17:25 |
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Morphix posted:so here is what I don't understand how indeed! (they arent) tesla Superchargers bypass the charging circuit entirely to dump voltage straight into the batteries until they're reporting 375 volts. Usually that circuit makes sure each of the thousands of individual cell only discharges to ~3.70v, and charges to a max of ~4.20v (lol nice) . You don't want a Lithium cell to go above 4.2 volts because it starts to degrade the chemicals inside and increases the resistance inside the battery. This still means the battery cell works, it just gets hotter when it discharges now because of the resistance, and will discharge faster than when it was a new cell. Too much resistance in your batteries leads to heating up which leads to less efficiency which leads to more resistance which leads to exploding. That's all good for one cell but Teslas have 2000+ per car and it takes quite a circuit to keep 2000+ individual cells charged up to 4.2v, cells dont discharge at equal rates due to manufacturing discrepancies. The better the cells, the better and more consistent the discharge rate. It's not huge but you could discharge two Lithium cells with the same load and see at the end one cell is 3.82v and the other is 3.84v. If you blindly charge the entire battery to 4.20v using 3.82v as the low level then the other cell has actually been overcharged to 4.22v. This isn't a big deal at first because 0.2v is easily balanced by the charger, it monitors every cell individually (in Teslas case probably battery modules, not individual 18650 cells) and will give one cell 0.2v less than the others. Which is why people tend to put a little * beside teslas when they make fun of their absolute dogshit implementation of technology. The charge circuit seems to be good. But what if you discharged your batteries, and recharged them with ZERO balancing? That 0.2v discrepancy would never actually get balanced back out again and would begin to compound. Eventually there could be a .5, .8, or an entire voltage of difference between your battery cells. At that point even if you tried to charge the battery traditionally those cells are NEVER going to properly balance again, you've essentially hosed the battery by letting the charge levels of the cells get so out of sync. Rather than monitoring individual cells, the Supercharger just looks at TOTAL battery voltage, so it just pumps power in until the battery reads back as 375 volts and then its "charged" regardless of the state of any individual cell, whether some are 3.9v, 4.12v, 4.28v, it doesn't give a poo poo as long as the total voltage is right. That's very dumb and bad. EDIT: according to google a model S battery is composed of: 9 bricks X 3.6 volts X 11 moduals = 356.4 volts. bring back old gbs has issued a correction as of 17:57 on Dec 5, 2018 |
# ? Dec 5, 2018 17:46 |
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Morphix posted:so here is what I don't understand Sure, the higher voltage makes it efficient to draw more power from the charger, and while that is no doubt why Porsche does it they very likely back off the power quickly as the battery heats up, which afaik is the only substantial problem with charging quickly. I.e. they get one of those good x minutes (for x in that 10-20 minute range where it is convenient) of charging -> y miles of range deals where however 2x minutes -> 1.5y miles and so on.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 17:53 |
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Wachter posted:why can't we just feed live animals directly into the engine, kind of like Blood Drive The greatest evidence against the existence of souls and spirits is that we haven't exploited them. Souls existing would represent a nearly limitless supply of energy that we could tap into and yet we haven't. Checkmate atheists. underage at the vape shop posted:Poor countries could grow those crops too though and bring wealth to the area This didn't work out so great for Bolivia and Peru for actual food crops like quinoa. It simply priced them out of their food. Admiral Ray has issued a correction as of 18:27 on Dec 5, 2018 |
# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:25 |
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So if I understand the both of you correctly, Neither Tesla nor Porsche do a non-stop 300/800v charge, it's tapered entirely by the battery/heat issues. So okay, but does that mean Porsche has almost 3x the battery cells in their car to achieve the 800v, or is there something else I'm missing here. Because when I hear 800v I think 3 phase industrial power and my mind starts reeling about normal loving people handling connectors with that much power going through them.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:25 |
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You can have different voltage levels with the same physical number of cells in theory, just by changing the serial and parallel layout. Porsche is not using vape cells though to my knowledge but a small number of custom made bag type cells. They have a much better volumetric efficiency and adapt better to sandwich cooling solutions E. some similar designs by audi Combat Theory has issued a correction as of 18:36 on Dec 5, 2018 |
# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:31 |
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just handwaving in the air haphazardly and saying let the developing world grow biofuels to fix climate change and poverty doesn't actually work at all btwgradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/ProPublica/status/1067425340941901830
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:34 |
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Lord Stimperor posted:Don't know which one it was but when I was browsing manufacturers, one of them did this. You buy their EV you get a loaner a couple of weeks free of charge
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:49 |
Lol Capitalism is poison
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:52 |
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Love the char though.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 18:52 |
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Morphix posted:So if I understand the both of you correctly, What I meant was that they are pulling it off, but most likely destroying or seriously shortening the lifespan of the batteries in the process. Teslas are powered by thousands of cells but they're linked together in parallel and series bricks, and then the voltages of the individual cells add up to the total 375v output at however many amps. And if Porsche says they're using an 800v charger that's loving nuts, but they may have developed a cell that can be charged at 800v even though it'll only be discharging 400v to power the motors like a Tesla. Usually it's the opposite and discharge rates are much higher than charge rates but like that other guy said, they're rolling their own packs and maybe they employ actual chemists to develop new technology instead of piggybacking on existing laptop cells.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:00 |
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lol I remember deliberately making series of circuits that would blow in the educational program Crocodile Clips, I never guessed I would be able to directly parlay that meta gaming experience into a career designing the future of transport
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:10 |
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Sir Tonk posted:oh and noone does oil changes at 3,000 miles unless theyre crazy, suggested has moved to 6,000 for most cars if not higher lol are you trying to summon ornicus or whoever
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:17 |
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comedyblissoption posted:just handwaving in the air haphazardly and saying let the developing world grow biofuels to fix climate change and poverty doesn't actually work at all btw Anyone who claims capitalism and responsible environmental decisions can peacefully co-exist needs to be repeatedly smacked with this article and others like it.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:25 |
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Sir Tonk posted:
Yeah just read what your car manual says and do that, not what the rear end in a top hat at jiffy lube puts on a window sticker. I think my last 3 cars all said 7-10k
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:26 |
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Admiral Ray posted:The greatest evidence against the existence of souls and spirits is that we haven't exploited them. Souls existing would represent a nearly limitless supply of energy that we could tap into and yet we haven't. Checkmate atheists. That's very true. Deepak Chopra types talk a big game about positive energy but they have to plug their iPhones into a wall socket same as the rest of us
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:29 |
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Admiral Ray posted:The greatest evidence against the existence of souls and spirits is that we haven't exploited them. Souls existing would represent a nearly limitless supply of energy that we could tap into and yet we haven't. Checkmate atheists. look at this idiot not knowing how indulgences work
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:31 |
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Anyone who claims capitalism and responsible environmental decisions can peacefully co-exist needs to be repeatedly smacked with this article and others like it. "We'll just use rapacious greed to exploit irreplaceable forests sustainably!"
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:31 |
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bring back old gbs posted:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/heres-why-the-porsche-mission-e-charges-into-the-future-with-800-volt-technology this makes it sound like they're doing two x 400v at the same time. but I'm still confused
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:32 |
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I can't find specifics on a 3 pack, but S packs use these TI parts integrated into the cell (http://www.ti.com/product/BQ76PL536A-Q1) to manage voltage and temperature even when supercharging, and self balance among groups of cells utilizing bleed resistors as necessary. The degradation from supercharging is not a function of bypassing the built in charge circuit, but rather lithium deposits that occur at high C rates of charging. This can be mitigated somewhat by carefully monitoring temperature and adjusting the charge curve appropriately. It is possible that Audi's chemistry will be less susceptible than this, but we won't know till there's several years of data.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:37 |
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underage at the vape shop posted:Yeah I get that fossil fuels have to go but its going to suck when you can't buy a cheap 10 year old car anymore. It's going to especially suck for poor people who will have to get poo poo loans to get a reliable car once ICE are gone. Unless we miraculously pull some crazy new battery tech out of our collective asses. Nah you can already buy 4 year old EVs for under $10k with +90% of capacity left. As long as battery tech keeps improving there will be a cheap EVs.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:47 |
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Shageletic posted:The commodities prices bubble. AFAIK it has more to do with animal feed and financial speculation but yeah you can link it to whats helping brazil o be so unstable for example 40% of US corn is made into ethanol for fuel.
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 19:48 |
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exploded mummy posted:oh even better I'm the Lincoln Town car CV Axle
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# ? Dec 5, 2018 20:07 |