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Gamers really are the worst.
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Dec 8, 2018 23:53
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ghouldaddy07 posted:Gamers really are the worst. The absolute worst. Anyway, if Dragon Age 4 lets me murder Solas then I will be so happy because, seriously, gently caress Solas.
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Dec 9, 2018 01:56
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I like baldy. He's a villain, but he's the sympathetic kind at least. I'm assuming DA4 will center around the Tevinter/Qunari conflict and Solas' actions will be intermixed with that.
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Dec 9, 2018 02:02
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Skippy McPants posted:The absolute worst. Not the worst, that would be Orlais followed closely by Ferelden. That was my most fundamental problem with Inquisition's story: I hated everyone I was supposed to be working to save and just wanted everyone except Cassandra, Solas, Leliana, Josie, Varric, Harding, and maybe Cole to die.
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Dec 9, 2018 02:19
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Cythereal posted:Not the worst, that would be Orlais followed closely by Ferelden. Uhhhh Iron Bull?
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Dec 9, 2018 02:43
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Cythereal posted:Not the worst, that would be Orlais followed closely by Ferelden. Dorian's whole thing is that he's a reluctant heir forced into conversion therapy by his dad and as such is pretty anti a lot of the bad poo poo in Tevinter while wanting to save/redeem his homeland, he's also just a really nice guy, I cannot fathom being anti-Dorian Iron Bull is also a good and nice person for the most part and Krem is great and worth keeping around Everyone hates Sera and Vivienne that's sort of the point of them and what do you hate about Blackwall? He's a boring warrior but his backstory is interesting. I'll allow you Cullen tbf, I've always thought it'd be better if Samson was redeemed as the advisor and Cullen went villain, but too many people want to gently caress him for some reason eating only apples fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 02:55
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eating only apples posted:Dorian's whole thing is that he's a reluctant heir forced into conversion therapy by his dad and as such is pretty anti a lot of the bad poo poo in Tevinter while wanting to save/redeem his homeland, he's also just a really nice guy, I cannot fathom being anti-Dorian he does try to lightly defend slavery at one point. Like Dorian a lot but had to call him out on that.
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Dec 9, 2018 02:56
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Pattonesque posted:he does try to lightly defend slavery at one point. Like Dorian a lot but had to call him out on that. That is a fair point and despite him being my best friend in every playthrough I too challenge him on that one, that's tough to rationalise. I will never see my inquisitor punch him  he's just too nice and charming
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Dec 9, 2018 02:59
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Pattonesque posted:he does try to lightly defend slavery at one point. Like Dorian a lot but had to call him out on that. It's been a while but I think that struck me as him buying into a line about slavery and rules surrounding it, so that yes under the LAWS a slave might be able to do something but he didn't look enough to find out that in practice, no that doesn't happen.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:00
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just realised that post featured Solas as someone to like which even though he's my bf and I will irrationally defend him and his bullshit, lol he is the most hateable of all party members and advisors, there is no one more deserving of a punch in the jaw and what's more you can do it and he won't even leave!
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Dec 9, 2018 03:04
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I always feel uncomfortable posting in this thread bc of my avatar which I bought after i finished inquisition the first time in 2014 like posting itt with it pushes me over the line of fan into mega-fan which is weird i guess big fan of this avatar though even if it is technically spoilers
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Dec 9, 2018 03:07
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Pattonesque posted:he does try to lightly defend slavery at one point. Like Dorian a lot but had to call him out on that. His tacit support for slavery makes a lot of sense considering his upbringing. People raised in that kind of system internalize the rationalizations at a very early age and even if they're uncomfortable or outright opposed to what's happening they tend to fall back on those same rationalizations when pressed. Like, it is capital-B bad, but it's a very believable character flaw and the kind of thing you could see him coming around on once he's spent some time away from that system and gotten a chance to see how messed up it is from the outside.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:08
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eating only apples posted:I always feel uncomfortable posting in this thread bc of my avatar which I bought after i finished inquisition the first time in 2014 DAI is four years old at this point. We're well beyond the statute of limitations on spoilers. If a person cares that much about spoilers for any content that is more than a few months old, then the onus is on them to avoid that stuff.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:11
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Skippy McPants posted:DAI is four years old at this point. We're well beyond the statute of limitations on spoilers. If a person cares that much about spoilers for any content that is more than a few months old, then the onus is on them to avoid that stuff. It was mostly a joke, I've been posting in this thread and others far more than necessary since 2014. The spoiler is not what makes me feel awkward
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Dec 9, 2018 03:13
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Beefstew posted:Uhhhh Iron Bull? Who? Oh right the guy spying on you and if you think for a moment "Hey, maybe the Qunari aren't so bad" he tries to kill you in DLC. A boring waste of a good concept. eating only apples posted:Dorian's whole thing is that he's a reluctant heir forced into conversion therapy by his dad and as such is pretty anti a lot of the bad poo poo in Tevinter while wanting to save/redeem his homeland, he's also just a really nice guy, I cannot fathom being anti-Dorian Like Blackwall, I have no strong feelings about Dorian either way. He's a dude who's there and I tend to completely forget about him when considering the game and its characters. About the same way I feel about, say, Oghren or Fenris from DAO and DA2.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:13
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Cythereal posted:Who? Clearly you have not spent much time with any of them and that's fine. Bull isn't for me and his battle AI is poor but I wouldn't say he's a waste at all. His quest could have been better, higher stakes maybe? As it is there's no reason to not save the Chargers who you know and love, probably. Your opinion on the other two is yours, I'm not gonna fight you on it. e: oh lol okay forgetting Oghren is one thing but Fenris is something else entirely. I loving hated that guy when I watched someone else play DAII but when i played it myself I found that as much as I tried to hate him after some time I couldn't even do that. We were rivals but in a good way. I even started being nice to him after a while. I only played that game once and am increasingly considering going back to it His VA really helps 
eating only apples fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 03:16
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Cythereal posted:Like Blackwall, I have no strong feelings about Dorian either way. He's a dude who's there and I tend to completely forget about him when considering the game and its characters. About the same way I feel about, say, Oghren or Fenris from DAO and DA2. eating only apples posted:just realised that post featured Solas as someone to like which even though he's my bf and I will irrationally defend him and his bullshit, lol he is the most hateable of all party members and advisors, there is no one more deserving of a punch in the jaw and what's more you can do it and he won't even leave!
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Dec 9, 2018 03:19
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Pattonesque posted:he does try to lightly defend slavery at one point. Like Dorian a lot but had to call him out on that. I mean, a slave to a good family is still probably better off than a city elf in Ferelden. Dorian brings up alienages as a counterargument and it really strikes at the hypocrisy of Ferelden you see in DAO. "We might have problems but at least we aren't slavers!" Yeah, you really deserve a pat on your back for forcing elves into pestilence-filled ghettos to be raped at the whim of the local lord. That's so much more enlightened than slavery. Of course both systems suck but, well, there aren't any other options besides the Qunari. It's not like he can invoke the liberal utopia that doesn't exist. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 03:22
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Zane posted:watching female youtube lpers going through the solas romance is very funny I just finished Trespasser with a Solas romance for the second time and pretty sure I picked all the same  options and I still got emotional, don't talk to me about Women Playing Games, my inquisitor was hella Dalish and didn't let him remove her vallaslin. Solas is great and I think his romance improves Trespasser, even though I also love to deck him in the face
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Dec 9, 2018 03:24
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eating only apples posted:Clearly you have not spent much time with any of them and that's fine. Bull isn't for me and his battle AI is poor but I wouldn't say he's a waste at all. His quest could have been better, higher stakes maybe? As it is there's no reason to not save the Chargers who you know and love, probably. Your opinion on the other two is yours, I'm not gonna fight you on it. Why should I have cared about the Chargers? Bull was a waste of a potentially genuinely grey character.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:24
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Ginette Reno posted:I like baldy. He's a villain, but he's the sympathetic kind at least. I understand Solas' motivations, but I do not sympathize. Nobody should feel sorry for Solas. He is well written, but he is an awful, awful, awful person and the sooner he's dead the better off everyone else in that world will be. He is a patronizing, manipulative, and paternalistic bigot—and worse, self-aware about all of it. He whinges on about how much he regrets all the terrible things he's done and about all the mistakes he laments, but—BUT, he keeps right on doing horrible things with not a whit of introspection. He destroyed the world once, nearly destroyed it a second time, and is currently trying to destroy it again. All the while he is utterly convinced that this time, this time, he'll fix everything, his hubris won't bite him in the rear end, and that it will all be worth it no matter how many people die in the process. And that's without getting into all the bullshit he puts the PC through if they make the mistake of following his romance. gently caress. Solas. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 03:26
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I also didn't like Iron Bull. The Qunari were unquestionably the stars of DA2's plot but DAI does nothing with them. The Arishok and Sten were much more interesting than Bull.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:26
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if you really want to split hairs--i don't necessarily recommend it--medieval household slavery was a lot different from early modern plantation slavery. the former was sort of equivalent to being a neglected stepchild in a big family. and being a feudal peasant was itself very close to slavery--somewhere between these two in relative autonomy--in the medieval europe of the vaguely equivalent period.
Zane fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 03:27
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eating only apples posted:
Iron Bull presents himself to each companion differently depending on what he thinks will make himself look friendly and trustworthy to them. He is a spy and his task is to ingratiate himself with the Inquisition while being totally non threatening and friendly about it. He's good at that. He flatters Vivienne and defers to her, he tells dirty jokes with Sera, talks about writing with Varric, warfare with Blackwall etc. What you see of Iron Bull is what he wants you to see. He lies and manipulates people all the time. Doesn't mean he's a 'bad' person, but if you think he's a 'good' person it's because that's what he wants you to think.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:29
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I didn't like Inquisition making the Qunari complete bad guys because I find them interesting and appealing as allies. They're a bit alien, but I feel like Inquisition and the DLC went way too far in emphasizing the downsides of their society and their negative tendencies while neglecting the positive things about them. I liked Iron Bull when I thought that accepting him for who he is, you could start to build a real bridge between the Thedas societies and the Qunari, and I was excited to see where that might go. I even thought the Chargers were clever misdirection, that the player would naturally be tempted to save the colorful cast of weirdos you've gotten to know rather than a ship full of faceless mooks, but that saving the ship would be the right call for the greater good. Then Bioware chickened out and Bull's character collapsed in a puff of bad writing.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:30
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Zane posted:if you really want to split hairs--i don't necessarily recommend it--medieval household slavery was a lot different from early modern plantation slavery. and being a feudal peasant was itself very close to slavery--somewhere between these two in relative autonomy--in the medieval europe of the vaguely equivalent period. Ferelden also doesn't have serfdom. Their lower class would roughly equate to the medieval freeman. Even for elves, I think, although in practical terms they clearly have zero protections or status.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:32
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Helith posted:Iron Bull presents himself to each companion differently depending on what he thinks will make himself look friendly and trustworthy to them. Thaaaaat's very true. He stays that person after his quest though if you save his pals. I never see much of Bull because I deliberately don't use him a) because his AI stinks and b) because of the implications of a sexual assault on a drunk Dorian which makes me uncomfortable (yes they can end up together, doesn't mean I wanna hear about how it happened with someone too drunk to consent) so I'm not particularly au fait with his character beyond what's seen at base camp. Nice guy though!
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Dec 9, 2018 03:35
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Cythereal posted:Then Bioware chickened out and Bull's character collapsed in a puff of bad writing. Are you talking about when he turns on you in Inquisition? Cause that was great. As the player, if you favored forcing him back into the Qun, you can't really be pissed when he chooses his people over you since it's a replay of the exact same choice he made with the Chargers.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:36
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yeah I totally get how Dorian comes to believe that and to his credit he doesn't seem all that invested in it but my position on active slavers in RPGs is immediate and permanent sanction so he's lucky he didn't go a little bit farther
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Dec 9, 2018 03:36
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Dorian having  opinions on slavery makes sense, and fleshes out his character as it is a believable flaw. Maybe trying to get him to free House Pavus' slaves could be his side quest in 4?ghouldaddy07 posted:Gamers really are the worst.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:39
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Skippy McPants posted:Are you talking about when he turns on you in Inquisition? Cause that was great. As the player, if you favored forcing him back into the Qun, you can't really be pissed when he chooses his people over you since it's a replay of the exact same choice he made with the Chargers. It's very video game writing in general that there's a specific Good Choice between saving the lovable band of misfits or the random crew of a boat that you'll never meet, saving the Dreadnought was never going to be the good choice and I'm glad that a bad choice leads, eventually, to a bad outcome. It also means Bull probably won't feature in 4 beyond war table-ish mentions, unless they pull a Leliana. Speaking of, I thought Hawke went off to Weisshaupt and vanished with the Wardens there, silence from the fortress. But in the Trespasser epilogue she's helping Varric rule Kirkwall. I feel like Solas probably had a hand in dealing with Weisshaupt so I'm interested to know what happened there. Hawke and the Warden ally all end up heading there depending on the ending. Wonder what's going on there. eating only apples fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 03:39
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Skippy McPants posted:Are you talking about when he turns on you in Inquisition? Cause that was great. As the player, if you favored forcing him back into the Qun, you can't really be pissed when he chooses his people over you since it's a replay of the exact same choice he made with the Chargers. I'm talking about the Qunari becoming bad guys again in general, and the whole thing being framed as 'forcing' him back into the Qun. The Qunari, and by extension Iron Bull, were far more interesting when they were a wild card that might be friendly. As I said, a waste. eating only apples posted:It's very video game writing in general that there's a specific Good Choice between saving the lovable band of misfits or the random crew of a boat that you'll never meet, saving the Dreadnought was never going to be the good choice and I'm glad that a bad choice leads, eventually, to a bad outcome. Yeah, I learned my lesson about assuming Bioware might go somewhere interesting with Dragon Age's story.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:41
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I always thought this blog post was a good read on Iron Bull's character http://shallow-between-stars.tumblr.com/post/128769818344
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Dec 9, 2018 03:42
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Cythereal posted:I'm talking about the Qunari becoming bad guys again in general, and the whole thing being framed as 'forcing' him back into the Qun. wasn't the Viddasala specifically something of a rogue element? Or was that just the qunari CYAing themselves after she blew it big-time? Sten's the new Arishok anyway so I feel like there's some potential for interesting use of them in DA4 with him in charge.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:44
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Cythereal posted:I'm talking about the Qunari becoming bad guys again in general, and the whole thing being framed as 'forcing' him back into the Qun. But they were never not framed that way. With how their system is set up there is no cultural bridge that leads to coexistence. Any alliances they make are purely a matter of survival or convenience, so it's weird to act surprised when they inevitably break deals the moment it's advantageous. eating only apples posted:It's very video game writing in general that there's a specific Good Choice between saving the lovable band of misfits or the random crew of a boat that you'll never meet, saving the Dreadnought was never going to be the good choice and I'm glad that a bad choice leads, eventually, to a bad outcome. Sure, it is a moral binary, but it's like binary choice #94034855 in a Bioware game, and I like that supporting the regressive authoritarian regime eventually bites the player in the rear end.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:50
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Skippy McPants posted:But they were never not framed that way. With how their system is set up there is no cultural bridge that leads to coexistence. Any alliances they make are purely a matter of survival or convenience, so it's weird to act surprised when they inevitably break deals the moment it's advantageous. Again: I thought Bioware was going to make the interesting choice of changing what has been the status quo. But then again, every time I do something in Dragon Age that seems to shake up the status quo, the next game or DLC has gone lol no back to everyone being a short-sighted shithead like before, your choices are a joke.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:56
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Skippy McPants posted:But they were never not framed that way. With how their system is set up there is no cultural bridge that leads to coexistence. Any alliances they make are purely a matter of survival or convenience, so it's weird to act surprised when they inevitably break deals the moment it's advantageous. I would have liked that too  And yes Viddasala was working on her own according to official letters. Her war against the inquisition wasn’t officially sanctioned. Apparently. Sten from Origins is the Arishok now right? He’s probably pretty reasonable maybe
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Dec 9, 2018 03:57
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Cythereal posted:Again: I thought Bioware was going to make the interesting choice of changing what has been the status quo. Dragon Age is essentially Everyone is Awful Forever: A Prisoner's Dilemma Series. If you expect it to be anything else, then I'm afraid you done played yourself.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:59
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Skippy McPants posted:Dragon Age is essentially Everyone is Awful Forever: A Prisoner's Dilemma Series. If you expect it to be anything else, then I'm afraid you done played yourself. I don't expect it now. Another reason why I bought no Inquisition DLC and why I'm not optimistic about DA4. I'd love to be wrong, though, so I'll watch things closely.
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Dec 9, 2018 04:00
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Skippy McPants posted:Dragon Age is essentially Everyone is Awful Forever: A Prisoner's Dilemma Series. If you expect it to be anything else, then I'm afraid you done played yourself. Can't solve the major world conflicts in the middle of the series, it's just how serials work. I'd say it's unlikely we'll see any permanent changes unless it's the last game in the setting (like how ME3 finally got around to addressing the genophage/Rannoch as there was no need to keep the threads hanging).
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Dec 9, 2018 04:09
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