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Is there a natural mechanic to make workers turn into specialists even if there's plenty of worker jobs available? My homeworld turned into a huge research world but I still always had like 30 jobs available for workers.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:20
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mormonpartyboat posted:The Consecrated Worlds logic should take into account the world being a tomb world. Or take it into account more. It's really weird that my spiritualist pops would throw a fit about disrespecting the dead by colonizing their planetgrave but only care about size when I suggest the planet's holy. Consecrated worlds are a roll every time. I haven't dug around to find the formula, but you can get full value worlds on uninhabitable rocks and gas giants and poo poo. All in all I think its a great perk currently, even with the worst case rolls you're in a good spot bonus wise, and you can revisit it later. I don't think there is a list of where your consecrated worlds are at afaik, so maybe take some notes or something if you want to re-visit them later.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:20
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jokes posted:I just got this game, but i really like 4Xs so I wasn't exactly completely clueless. This is maybe the best post I've ever seen in this thread. Thanks for letting me have some enjoyment at your expense. Someone already explained but I'll throw a little bit of a deeper explanation at you. You hosed with a Fallen Empire. They can come in several varieties but they are always overwhelmingly more powerful than you until the late game and even then they're tough opponents. They will sit there doing nothing with the exception of maybe, on occasion, asking you for stuff. Sometimes they will help you. But most of the time they will sit there as a massive roadblock with "Trespassers will be shot" signs all over the place. They don't build ships and their fleets will never move unless provoked. Some FEs will give you a warning to stay away from certain things. The guys you ran into hold Gaia worlds to be holy and will get upset if you colonize the planet. You can drop an outpost in the system, but don't touch the planet. Not all Gaia worlds are off limits either. You can tell by checking the planet. If it has a "Holy World" modifier you need to stay the heck away. Eventually, later on in the game they will begin to wake up they'll change into Awakened Empires and depending on their type, they'll be cranky with you. Also, on occasion, two Fallen Empires will begin a War in Heaven event and the entire galaxy will be given then option to join one of the two sides, or be neutral. I've only seen this once, but it's pretty neat. If you can conquer a FE/AE you're in for a treat because their territory is always amazing. Their worlds usually come with unique buildings. Some have several ring worlds in various states of disrepair. if you've reached the point where you can roll a FE congrats the rest of the game is basically a formality.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:21
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what i can't figure out is why energy-producing buildings require an energy upkeep
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Dec 11, 2018 22:23
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Bold Robot posted:Are federations still terrible to join and basically a trap? I remember one of the dev diaries mentioning a change to how they work but don’t remember the details. They work largely the same, but the most powerful player will eventually become the federation president (it doesn't seem to happen immediately but it does happen) and will gain more or less permanent control of the federation fleet. You have to put up with the AI shenanigans but in return you get a fleet that the AI will contribute a large number of ships to. In my current game I have a very good-sized federation fleet (for this stage of the game) that is larger than the actual fleet of any AI empire, but I didn't build a single ship for it. So, as long as you're up to ignoring all their war requests and letting them time out it's fine if you're trying to play mostly peaceful.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:23
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jokes posted:Is there a natural mechanic to make workers turn into specialists even if there's plenty of worker jobs available? My homeworld turned into a huge research world but I still always had like 30 jobs available for workers. pops naturally want to be promoted. if you build structures too quickly then everyone's going to take the nice office jobs and there will be nobody left to toil in the mines and fields
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Dec 11, 2018 22:24
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jokes posted:Is there a natural mechanic to make workers turn into specialists even if there's plenty of worker jobs available? My homeworld turned into a huge research world but I still always had like 30 jobs available for workers. Yea, specialists get payed better, and that makes them happier. So they'll try to work better jobs if they can. You should be aiming to have only a small number of open job slots at a given time, since you're paying upkeep to have more buildings/districts around.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:24
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mormonpartyboat posted:The Consecrated Worlds logic should take into account the world being a tomb world. Or take it into account more. It's really weird that my spiritualist pops would throw a fit about disrespecting the dead by colonizing their planetgrave but only care about size when I suggest the planet's holy. 1. Especially uninhabitable OR totally transformed - asteroids, nuked worlds, gas giants, shielded worlds, hive worlds, machine worlds and ecumenopoleis. These are unsuitable, giving a 60% chance of producing the lowest level of veneration and 40% of the second-lowest. 2. All other uninhabitable worlds. These still say "unsuitable," but have instead only a 10% chance of the lowest level, a 60% of the second-lowest, and a 30% chance of the second-highest. 3. Other non-gaia inhabitable worlds - tomb worlds would fall into this category. These have a 40% chance of getting the second-lowest level, 50% chance of being second-highest, and 10% chance of being highest. 4. Gaia worlds, which have a 100% chance of getting the highest level of veneration. Were you suggesting that tomb worlds should be more respected or less respected when chosen for veneration?
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Dec 11, 2018 22:24
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jokes posted:Is there a natural mechanic to make workers turn into specialists even if there's plenty of worker jobs available? My homeworld turned into a huge research world but I still always had like 30 jobs available for workers. I'm pretty sure what happens is that lower class pops automatically and instantly promote if there are middle or upper class jobs available. It's kind of weird considering that it takes five years to demote a pop.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:26
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Weird. So on other worlds that weren't big cities I had a shitload of robot workers who ended up leaving my humans unemployed. I was having issues of unemployment because I didn't realize I flooded my empire with robot workers as much as I did and I had something like 200 robot workers. I didn't know what to do with them since you can't purge them so I just switched their AI to require less upkeep/housing and shoved them onto a bunch of mining/farmworlds where the bulk of them remained unemployed. What do you do with robots? I purged all the other alien races from my conquests but robots, man.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:27
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm pretty sure what happens is that lower class pops automatically and instantly promote if there are middle or upper class jobs available. It's kind of weird considering that it takes five years to demote a pop. it's not that weird - if you have one hundred people, and you create two hundred jobs, and you say "over here are the hundred jobs where you get to sit down at computer all day, and over here are the hundred jobs that involve intense manual labor" then very soon you will have one hundred empty labor jobs and one hundred full office chairs the game doesn't explicitly warn you not to overbuild but if you've played similar paradox games (cough vicky 2 cough) it's pretty intuitive. nobody's going to fix the generators if everyone gets to be a blogger jokes posted:Weird. robots take up basic mining, farming, and energy jobs. later you can promote them to take on medium tier jobs as droids, and then turn them into fully synthetic sentient beings who may or may not have full rights as living creatures but for now use them to staff the farms and stuff so your citizens can all work the middle tier jobs Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 22:29
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Keep building robots because population is king. Give all your organic species the utopian abundance living standards so that they actually produce something while they're unemployed.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:30
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luxury handset posted:it's not that weird - if you have one hundred people, and you create two hundred jobs, and you say "over here are the hundred jobs where you get to sit down at computer all day, and over here are the hundred jobs that involve intense manual labor" then very soon you will have one hundred empty labor jobs and one hundred full office chairs You're not going to turn 100 coal miners into 100 software engineers overnight and for free though. It might add more micromanagement, but I think I'd prefer a system like Vicky 1 where you could spend resources to change a pop's vocation.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:31
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Fister Roboto posted:You're not going to turn 100 coal miners into 100 software engineers overnight and for free though. eh i'd rather not get a job skill layer involved. instead of waiting for pops to demote it's easier to generate more pops. i wonder if too-fast expansion is dragging down some folks pop growth rates through emigration because in my life seeded quick growing plant people game i've got the pop growth up to close to +6/month, or a new pop every 16.5 months
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Dec 11, 2018 22:35
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Fister Roboto posted:You're not going to turn 100 coal miners into 100 software engineers overnight and for free though. I mean, we're still in a system where a pop is "born" and immediately put to work. I'm okay with the current level of abstraction. Pops really really want to move up the ladder. But they would rather not work than move down it.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:38
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Yeah, while CK2 is an amazing game, I don't think we need to track every pop's entire career in Stellaris. I'm OK with some pop abstraction in a game where there are trillions or whatever is past trillions of people represented in the galaxy by the end of the game.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:41
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I guess, I just don't like that there's a red icon on my planets but there's nothing I can do about it for five years, because my artisans don't want to work at Space McDonald's for a while.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:46
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ZypherIM posted:Consecrated worlds are a roll every time. I haven't dug around to find the formula, but you can get full value worlds on uninhabitable rocks and gas giants and poo poo. All in all I think its a great perk currently, even with the worst case rolls you're in a good spot bonus wise, and you can revisit it later. I don't think there is a list of where your consecrated worlds are at afaik, so maybe take some notes or something if you want to re-visit them later. You can see a suitability for consecration by hovering your mouse over the consecration decision. I tinkered with it a bit to see if I could find breakpoints but the only thing I could see making a difference was size. Once you actually consecrate it, then yeah, there's the dice roll, which seems to be modified by the suitability. Also, it's only like 100 influence to reroll a consecration, which seems weird? Strudel Man posted:They don't care about size, they care about general type. That math mostly makes sense, but...yeah. Once I get home I'll take some screenshots of the different suitabilities. Bigger planets were definitely weighted as better than smaller planets. I think tomb worlds should be held to a lot higher regard, especially since the spiritualist pop faction already seems to venerate tomb worlds. They don't care if you populate a gaia world, but a tomb world gets them all rowdy.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:49
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ZypherIM posted:The only thing that produced more than 3 unity is the coordinator machine job. All those extra job sources that non-hives get? Less than 3. The ones that are 3 (outside of the culture workers themselves) are all noble stratum. You'll also want to note that culture works and poo poo are only +2 society research. The other sources provide less unity, true, but more other stuff. Entertainers provide 10 amenities, for example. 10 amenities and 2 unity seems far better than 3 unity 3 society. That actually seems really good, having mostly played hive minds in 2.2, who'd need two maintenance drones for that and wouldn't get any unity. More building slot efficient too, unless the hive has the prosperity tradition that gives maintenance depots an additional 2 jobs. Technocracy researchers obviously provide much more research, as do utopian abundance unemployed pops (for less upkeep too, and no building slot limitations, or building upkeep). All of those seem significantly better than synapse drones, even though they give less unity. Except culture workers, which are even worse than synapse drones, but you also have good options. 3 unity and 6 amenities seems far better than 3 unity and 3 society to me. You get synapse drones from day one, yes, but I'm almost certain that's a trap choice. Running synapse drones instead of tech-drones or agri-drones or mining drones in the beginning of the game seems like it would cripple your economy. You're likely better off shutting those jobs down (as well as the hunter-killer, of course).
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Dec 11, 2018 22:51
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Staltran posted:Aren't ecumenopoleis much more powerful than hive/machine worlds, though? Yes they are, as a hive mind I got the ecumenopolis from the first league quest chain and it was so much more powerful than the hive minds I eventually got
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Dec 11, 2018 22:53
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Fister Roboto posted:I guess, I just don't like that there's a red icon on my planets but there's nothing I can do about it for five years, because my artisans don't want to work at Space McDonald's for a while. run utopian abundance and let those folks generate science
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Dec 11, 2018 22:54
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Fister Roboto posted:You're not going to turn 100 coal miners into 100 software engineers overnight and for free though. Based on corp building flavor text software engineers are a worker strata job in stellaris represented by clerks.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:55
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luxury handset posted:eh i'd rather not get a job skill layer involved. instead of waiting for pops to demote it's easier to generate more pops. i wonder if too-fast expansion is dragging down some folks pop growth rates through emigration because in my life seeded quick growing plant people game i've got the pop growth up to close to +6/month, or a new pop every 16.5 months make it take 6 months to go up a strata baseline and then let you send your pops to code academy to speed it up
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Dec 11, 2018 22:55
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Fister Roboto posted:I guess, I just don't like that there's a red icon on my planets but there's nothing I can do about it for five years, because my artisans don't want to work at Space McDonald's for a while. If it really bothers you that much you can always move them to another world.
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Dec 11, 2018 22:56
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Serf posted:run utopian abundance and let those folks generate science I already do that and it doesn't get rid of the icon!!!
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Dec 11, 2018 23:01
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Man, I was thinking about my issues with robots in stellaris and the lack of automation. Why can't we get better automation technology that lets us build buildings that employ the same people for more production, or fewer people for the same production? Robots are generally not multi-use, it's extremely specialized equipment. You can't take a the equipment out of an automated car factory and plop them down in a farm and tell the robots to farm. And that brought me to machine empires. Why do they even have pops? You could bake the robotic infrastructure into the districts/buildings and just have them consume X upkeep and produce Y resources, no jobs, just solid state production. Leave actual pops down to special autonomous units representing leaders and such, but you'd never have a research lab with 8 robots sitting there typing away at the research computers, you'd have a huge AI mainframe facility housing research-AI's performing virtual experiments and poo poo. The workers would all be "baked in" to the buildings. It would mean playing a machine empire would actually feel very different rather than "my pops are made of metal and their growth is called assembling" I'd get rid of robots entirely as a pop and instead replace the concept with building/district level upgrades that just remove the need for a certain percentage of workers. No more fiddling with making sure the farm-bot is on the farm and the mine-bot is on the mine because they're baked into the building. This of course would come at the realistic expense of flexibility since the robots are so hyper-specialized to the job they're doing it would mean you can't just fire all the farming robots and send them to work at the alloy mill. Save pop-level machines for much higher tech, robots that are made to actually do the full role of a human and can fill those sorts of slots. So you could research robotics and upgrade from 8 employment alloy mill to an automated alloy mill which produces the same amount of output but only has 2 worker slots (human overseers). But then get droids/synths which would let you build pops to finally replace that last bit of organic intervention. Eh, it's all enough that it makes me want to get into modding.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:02
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Okay so this has probably already been discussed but: Paying rare resources to upkeep a building that "just" provides more jobs doesn't feel good. So why not make the upgraded building provide a job that consumes one unit of rare resource for the output of the entire base building? Feel free to link me to the six mods that already implement this. Variations probably include: type of resource maps to research type, one rare researcher alone, rare consumer+base allotment of workers, etc.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:09
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What's worse is that paradox has now "balanced" the upgraded buildings to be even worse. Instead of having a base employment of 2, paying a rare and getting 5, then paying 2 rare and getting 10, that 10 has been turned down to 8. So you're spending more rare resources to get even less upgrade.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:12
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Baronjutter posted:Man, I was thinking about my issues with robots in stellaris and the lack of automation. Why can't we get better automation technology that lets us build buildings that employ the same people for more production, or fewer people for the same production? Robots are generally not multi-use, it's extremely specialized equipment. You can't take a the equipment out of an automated car factory and plop them down in a farm and tell the robots to farm.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:13
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Magil Zeal posted:I'd like to buff Galactic Wonders so it's available earlier and with a bit less effort
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Dec 11, 2018 23:15
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Magil Zeal posted:I don't think it's related to pathfinding because not everybody seems to encounter it, but it's basically on any speed at a certain point in the game (reports vary), the game will briefly freeze for a second or two every "tick" or so. Most reports are that the problem becomes worse the later in the game you go. I've noticed this but I think it's some sort of UI thing and not actually the game itself stuttering. I've seen ship icons moving through hyperlanes do it but I've never seen actual ships doing it while looking at a system. TalonDemonKing posted:What's everyone's map settings? 600 stars, 4 arm spiral, default everything except hyperlane density is down one click and wormholes/gates up one click
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Dec 11, 2018 23:16
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Nessus posted:You are so close to the truth, that all Pops must be purged; only in the great silent stillness of annihilation can we achieve true $FactionGoal. I'm also thinking if automation was abstracted down to the building level rather than literal robot pops the game has to track it would do wonders for performance. The ultimate performance boost is the total annihilation of all pops.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:19
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TalonDemonKing posted:What's everyone's map settings?
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Dec 11, 2018 23:19
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Fister Roboto posted:Yes, it sets a flag for a later event to pop up. But it also sets that flag for the other options. So the third option to get nothing is just a trap. motherfuck
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Dec 11, 2018 23:21
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I really dislike all the jobs that give you just society research since it tends to make the research trees really unbalanced so I'm going to mod those jobs to give like .5 of all 3 research instead of 2 society or whatever if possible. Or maybe 1-2-1 since there is no society on the map itself. My last couple games had me producing 2-3x the society research per month, as robots no less. Really strange. Also looking into moving the replicator jobs out of the planet capital building and into techs for the replicator building itself, should hopefully help with the huge urge to resettle 40+ pops to each planet as robits. Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 23:23
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I see that Glavius is on a coke binge or something and is updating his mod multiple times per day. I've also seen the official dev team has a beta up. Which is more conducive to a new game which won't break the first time the (unbalanced) Khan horde shows up or whatever lurks in the L cluster (I skipped the last update, bought it with MegaCorp) escapes?
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Dec 11, 2018 23:25
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I think what's most strange to me is that jobs only come from crime and player-built buildings. It's like every single government type is a command economy and any private enterprise is considered criminal. There really ought to be a chance for unemployed pops to do self-sustaining things other than crime or waiting for the president to build a new factory (unless your government really does criminalize all non-state enterprise).
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Dec 11, 2018 23:26
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you folks have to stop playing on default settings, it's not good 75%-100% AI density, 3x gates, 2x wormholes, 0.5x-0.75x habitable worlds, lots of primitives i had wondered why people considered gates to be a late game thing until i remembered that at 1x gate density the ruined gate network is mostly useless so you have to wait for gate construction to make a good intra-empire network and most folks play with the defaults but, uh, don't do that. the defaults are not actually a sensible set of options to showcase stellaris's strengths and create a vibrant, diverse galaxy
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Dec 11, 2018 23:29
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Baronjutter posted:Man, I was thinking about my issues with robots in stellaris and the lack of automation. Why can't we get better automation technology that lets us build buildings that employ the same people for more production, or fewer people for the same production? Robots are generally not multi-use, it's extremely specialized equipment. You can't take a the equipment out of an automated car factory and plop them down in a farm and tell the robots to farm. I like this! Robotic pops could be computing power, where machine empires are expanding the amount of processes and facilities that can be run concurrently, with the idea that they grow faster but cannot change jobs once they are locked in.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:30
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Corbeau posted:I think what's most strange to me is that jobs only come from crime and player-built buildings. It's like every single government type is a command economy and any private enterprise is considered criminal. There really ought to be a chance for unemployed pops to do self-sustaining things other than crime or waiting for the president to build a new factory (unless your government really does criminalize all non-state enterprise).
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Dec 11, 2018 23:32
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