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CharlestonJew posted:maybe it'll be like a Vampire The Masquerade thing where Morgan is just some random dude you see sometimes and you don't realize who he really is until the very end this would be fuckin' sweet
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Jun 13, 2019 15:20
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JBP posted:Were these morons racist before the game came out? Couldn't tell you! Does it matter whether that's the case or whether the satire just made them more secure in their racist beliefs?
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Jun 13, 2019 15:21
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I'd actually be really interesting if they cast actors for all three of these people, especially Morgan Blackhand (the Solo of Fortune). I don't think it's ever been stated what he actually looks like, because the dude is just so good at staying untraceable. The closest description to him is Mike Pondsmith commentating that he thinks Morgan would be an older white guy, the kind that can instantly blend in anywhere; even right after garroting some poor bastard in the middle of a street. Morgan Blackhand isn't exactly invisible. CascadeBeta posted:Even without the gigantic erection on that ad, I'd be able to tell that person was trans the second I looked at their style and facial features. There are clues that trans people can pick up on that non-trans people probably won't. Really? I'm trans and I didn't pick up on any clues that the character was trans apart from her dick.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:21
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Pussy Cartel posted:Morgan Blackhand isn't exactly invisible. looks like your average no name dirtbag to me
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Jun 13, 2019 15:22
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I hope they make Blackhand Pondsmith in the game.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:22
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marshmallow creep posted:And lots of people thought Starship Troopers was fellating fascism. Lots of people miss the point. Do we just give up on satire as a notion because people at large are idiots? In addition to the fact that any work ever created will be used for nefarious purposes by somebody (willfully?) misinterpreting it, when they use obvious satire incorrectly, it further unmasks them.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:22
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CascadeBeta posted:You do realize a lot of people took that propaganda at face value and went "Hell yeah, death to the foreign hordes!", right? By your reasoning satire just shouldn't exist, because there are always people who take it as endorsing what it's attacking. Starship Troopers was the most bluntly unsubtle anti-militaristic movie imaginable, and plenty of people still took it as AMERICA gently caress YEAH! Pylons posted:... Bioshock Infinite is *really* not a good argument to use if you're trying to defend CDPR. Yeah, but at the same time I don't think they were pro-KKK because they showed guys in hoods who were members of a racism club with racist posters... who you're expected (required, really) to blow to bits without mercy. (Bioshock Infinite has aged super duper badly on about 100,000 different levels though, yikes)
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Jun 13, 2019 15:23
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:So how would you want trans people to be identifiable in future gameplay segments or trailers that are shown? Have it come up in dialogue? Have a character clearly crossing gender boundaries without being a sexy pinup or a comedy skit? Christ, it's not loving hard to make someone visibly trans without making them look like a loving deviantart anime character!
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Jun 13, 2019 15:23
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CascadeBeta posted:You do realize a lot of people took that propaganda at face value and went "Hell yeah, death to the foreign hordes!", right? There's literally always going to be people who misread the intent of any kind of social commentary, either deliberately or otherwise. I mean gently caress, we live in a time where Paul Fuckin' Ryan tried to say how much he loves RATM, a band whose entire existence is dedicated to saying "gently caress you" to people like him
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Jun 13, 2019 15:23
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I had a cool idea: Johnny Vision! We'll be/should be able to hold down the right trigger to have the ghostly avatar of Johnny Keanuhand walk and guide us to all of our quest destinations. It's like Witcher vision, but with Keanu Reeves!
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Jun 13, 2019 15:23
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sean10mm posted:
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Jun 13, 2019 15:24
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SniperWoreConverse posted:looks like your average no name dirtbag to me He's the sample NPC for Solo aka the boring combat monster class whose only special skill is shooting faster and better so that's par for the course
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Jun 13, 2019 15:24
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SniperWoreConverse posted:I dunno. I'm thinking probably you always end up with john but maybe you really can get different guys showing up. I'd think that they'd probably demand the same missions in the same places, but the goals and flow of the missions would be different depending who you're running for, and they might be in a different order with different scenarios. I suspect that whoever your childhood hero is you've still got head-keanu and the fact that he exists (as an AI ghost or whatever) is directly related to the "immortality chip" plot. From the pnp lore synopsis someone earlier in the thread it seems Silverhand's demise was pretty involved with the other possible childhood heroes so its probably just some different dialogue about V and Jonny relate.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:25
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SniperWoreConverse posted:I dunno. I'm thinking probably you always end up with john but maybe you really can get different guys showing up. I'd think that they'd probably demand the same missions in the same places, but the goals and flow of the missions would be different depending who you're running for, and they might be in a different order with different scenarios. That makes more sense tbh. Probably all three AI communicate to you to give out missions.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:26
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Pylons posted:Couldn't tell you! Does it matter whether that's the case or whether the satire just made them more secure in their racist beliefs? Nah the work has enough public evidence to be taken as satire it isn't up to the artist to modify or delete it because people exist.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:26
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I still think leaving Rache Bartmoss out of the list of personal heroes you can choose from was a huge mistake.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:27
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Agnosticnixie posted:No amount of shouting will make futanari hentai an example of mainstream popular culture and I specifically said if you remove the comical erection, which is what you decided was worthy of replying to, and insisted that no actually the presence of penis on a trans woman is always bad. That isn't at all what I said, don't try to misrepresent my argument to turn me into a transphobe.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:27
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I don't get it tbh, it's just a poster of a cyborg with a dick Personally I haven't seen a lot of sexy trans-cyborgs in media ever before so I don't see how this is some sort of common bigoted trope
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Jun 13, 2019 15:27
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Pussy Cartel posted:Morgan Blackhand isn't exactly invisible.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:28
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Zzulu posted:I don't get it tbh, it's just a poster of a cyborg with a dick I think the cyborg is hot personally. E: both before and after the dick was drawn to my attention
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Jun 13, 2019 15:29
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JBP posted:Nah the work has enough public evidence to be taken as satire it isn't up to the artist to modify or delete it because people exist. Is that "public evidence" within the game itself or do I have to dig through someone's twitter to find out that they're not a transphobe and it was just satire?
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Jun 13, 2019 15:29
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Pylons posted:Is that "public evidence" within the game itself or do I have to dig through someone's twitter to find out that they're not a transphobe and it was just satire? You have the image. I think in the context of the work it belongs to (which is the actual art) and even alone that it is a mockery.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:32
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Pylons posted:Is that "public evidence" within the game itself or do I have to dig through someone's twitter to find out that they're not a transphobe and it was just satire? We already have someone saying that it was meant to be critical and satirical, if we're just going to assume that was all a lie then I think we've long since passed the point at which we just really want everyone involved to be evil/bad/wrong (we have).
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Jun 13, 2019 15:32
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JBP posted:I think the cyborg is hot personally. agreed
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Jun 13, 2019 15:32
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Pussy Cartel posted:I still think leaving Rache Bartmoss out of the list of personal heroes you can choose from was a huge mistake. Who is Rache? It's been kind of difficult to find good sources for the lore.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:32
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Kilometres Davis posted:I suspect that whoever your childhood hero is you've still got head-keanu and the fact that he exists (as an AI ghost or whatever) is directly related to the "immortality chip" plot. Head Arasaka would just spend the whole game being Japanese Trump in your head quote:That isn't at all what I said, don't try to misrepresent my argument to turn me into a transphobe. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume neither of us is intending that.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:33
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Pussy Cartel posted:We already have someone saying that it was meant to be critical and satirical, if we're just going to assume that was all a lie then I think we've long since passed the point at which we just really want everyone involved to be evil/bad/wrong (we have). I'm not saying it was a lie, I'm saying if that isn't obvious within the work itself then most people aren't going to go the extra mile and look up the artist and learn that it is satire.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:33
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Glenn Quebec posted:Who is Rache? It's been kind of difficult to find good sources for the lore. Rache was an elite netrunner who helped create the net as it was in CP2020 and was to netrunners what Johnny Silverhand was to rockerboys and Morgan Blackhand was to solos. He was supposedly killed during the Fourth Corporate War, shortly before Johnny and Morgan supposedly died.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:33
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Zzulu posted:I don't get it tbh, it's just a poster of a cyborg with a dick But how many negative portrayals have you seen of people referred to as trannies, traps, sissies and the like? Trans is one of the most significant search terms on porn sites. Alex Jones got caught looking at trans porn, for Christ's sake. Nearly all of our "representation" in modern media is as sex objects or have sex or fetishes as their only defining character trait. We're jokes or punchlines, or objects for people to jerk off to.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:34
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Pylons posted:I'm not saying it was a lie, I'm saying if that isn't obvious within the work itself then most people aren't going to go the extra mile and look up the artist and learn that it is satire. You mean the work we haven't really seen 99.9999999999% of because it won't be released until next year?
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Jun 13, 2019 15:34
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sean10mm posted:You mean the work we haven't really seen 99.9999999999% of because it won't be released until next year? Then maybe they shouldn't have chosen this image to represent their game!
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Jun 13, 2019 15:35
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Kilometres Davis posted:I suspect that whoever your childhood hero is you've still got head-keanu and the fact that he exists (as an AI ghost or whatever) is directly related to the "immortality chip" plot. yeah but on the other hand the other two also could possibly have or be in the chip somehow, and if they are they're going to push their agendas. Weren't all 3 involved with silverhand getting vaped? Glenn Quebec posted:That makes more sense tbh. Probably all three AI communicate to you to give out missions. some goon had the theory that you end up seeing whoever your hero is, not because it's actually them talking from the cyberbrain backup partition, but because it's actually some other actor (like a real hardcore AI or w/e) doing a song and dance to get you to work for their goals.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:35
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CascadeBeta posted:But how many negative portrayals have you seen of people referred to as trannies, traps, sissies and the like? Trans is one of the most significant search terms on porn sites. Alex Jones got caught looking at trans porn, for Christ's sake. Nearly all of our "representation" in modern media is as sex objects or have sex or fetishes as their only defining character trait. We're jokes or punchlines, or objects for people to jerk off to. The day we become as accepted in the public eye as any cis person is the day we'll end up being even more sexualized and objectified in the media and advertising. 
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Jun 13, 2019 15:36
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CascadeBeta posted:But how many negative portrayals have you seen of people referred to as trannies, traps, sissies and the like? Trans is one of the most significant search terms on porn sites. Alex Jones got caught looking at trans porn, for Christ's sake. Nearly all of our "representation" in modern media is as sex objects or have sex or fetishes as their only defining character trait. We're jokes or punchlines, or objects for people to jerk off to. Honesty, like in media? Almost zero trans people at all. I don't know if american media is full of it but most of the movies and TV shows I see don't really have any of the stuff you mentioned. Only on porn sites.. and i mean, porn sites are gonna be exploitative by nature of being porn sites. Whenever I do see trans-people on TV or in Movies its almost never sexualized actually
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Jun 13, 2019 15:38
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The_White_Crane posted:Have a character clearly crossing gender boundaries without being a sexy pinup or a comedy skit? Out of no-bullshit curiosity, how do you see this going? Like, if you did a surprise interview with me after I passed the woman from ContraPoints on the street, without knowing anything about her I'd never guess that she was trans. If you pressed me, I'd say that I found her slightly awkward-looking, but I'd never make the leap internally. There are vastly more ciswomen with somewhat boyish features in the general population than transwomen. "Visibly trans" basically means a comedy skit to me, because otherwise I have no reason to assume. So when you say it's not hard, I mean, I don't know. I'm earnestly interested in what that means.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:39
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chaosapiant posted:I had a cool idea: Johnny Vision! We'll be/should be able to hold down the right trigger to have the ghostly avatar of Johnny Keanuhand walk and guide us to all of our quest destinations. It's like Witcher vision, but with Keanu Reeves! Make it just like The Heart in Dishonored, except you're holding Keanu's ghostly silver hand as he sweetly whispers into your ear.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:39
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Pussy Cartel posted:The day we become as accepted in the public eye as any cis person is the day we'll end up being even more sexualized and objectified in the media and advertising. Then we're back to people arguing that showing a bad thing is the same as endorsing a bad thing,because someone, somewhere will miss the intent and take it literally and whelp.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:40
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sean10mm posted:Then we're back to people arguing that showing a bad thing is the same as endorsing a bad thing,because someone, somewhere will miss the intent and take it literally and whelp. And how about the stuff they haven't or don't show?
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Jun 13, 2019 15:42
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sean10mm posted:Then we're back to people arguing that showing a bad thing is the same as endorsing a bad thing,because someone, somewhere will miss the intent and take it literally and whelp. I don't think we ever left that spot.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:42
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I think people need to look at less porn because "oversexualized and objectified" trans women are not a thing in mainstream media. If anything a poster like this in an AAA game is a super-rarity
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