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Dishwasher posted:I think this is the main issue. This isn't Shakespeare. The writing and plot is about the same in the ST as it is in the PT and OT. People wanted something comparable to some of the best stories being created today. Instead, people just got more Star Wars. If we're talking quality of dialogue that's a defensible take, but the galactic conflict in the ST is nonsensical and takes massive shortcuts in a way that the PT and OT never did.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 16:48 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 13:21 |
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Dishwasher posted:I think this is the main issue. This isn't Shakespeare. The writing and plot is about the same in the ST as it is in the PT and OT. People wanted something comparable to some of the best stories being created today. Instead, people just got more Star Wars. A gangster, aye, a gangster, O! ’Tis well to be a gangster. A blaster ever by thy side, A stately barge in which to ride, A fair, young damsel to thee tied, ’Tis well to be a gangster. A gangster, aye, a gangster, O! ’Tis well to be a gangster. Full many servants lend thee aid, More guards than a Naboo brigade, And bounty hunters on parade— ’Tis well to be a gangster. A gangster, aye, a gangster, O! ’ Tis well to be a gangster. The drinks all flowing fast and free, A sarlacc pit not far from thee, A rancor for thine enemy, ’Tis well to be a gangster. A gangster, aye, a gangster, O! ’Tis well to be a gangster.”
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 17:25 |
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Vinylshadow posted:A gangster, aye, a gangster, O! Now a want a Star Wars Shakespearean stage play.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 20:09 |
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General Dog posted:If we're talking quality of dialogue that's a defensible take, but the galactic conflict in the ST is nonsensical and takes massive shortcuts in a way that the PT and OT never did. Fair enough. The broader scope of the war isn't really touched on as well as I'd like. But, remember, many of the finer details in the OT were also left open to context clues and 'sequel-prequel'-bait while the PT had a little too much exposition on details to where its in danger of failing to 'show-don't-tell'. All three had goofy quirks in their execution (and lots of literal goofy rear end poo poo in general). The PT and OT stuck the landing with satisfying conclusions and maybe a feeling of some missed opportunities if examined objectively. If the ST has a good ending, and I do like this current leak much more than TLJ's around this time, much of it's quirks will be forgiven too I think.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 20:17 |
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General Dog posted:If we're talking quality of dialogue that's a defensible take, but the galactic conflict in the ST is nonsensical and takes massive shortcuts in a way that the PT and OT never did. A New Hope is one of the tightest movies ever made. Like scene when the Imperial officers+Vader+Tarkin meet, think of what an insanely bad and tedious exposition dump the equivalent of that scene is in so many other sci-fi/fantasy/adventuresome movies. But there it's like nothing even two minutes and you know everyone's personality, where they all stand on the movie's conflict so far, and what the geopolitical situation of the galaxy is, etc. It's perfect. To compare, Force Awakens had some cut Leia dialogue when they first meet her where she talks a bit more about what's going on with the First Order/why they're such a thing but no one cares and how she/some folks get funding the Resistance secretly or whatever, but it was cut out. Like it probably needed to be gone over once or twice to be smooth and not just halt the movie to explain the movie to us but they just cut it out completely. But as the first movie in a new trilogy of these movies, like, it might have been nice to actually establish what was going on? And like I'm sure everyone's mentioned before the First Order blows up that ENTIRE SYSTEM but somehow, like, the rest of the governments of the galaxy are just sort of cool with that? A New Hope is simple stuff but it does a good establishing how even the other officers are like, really? You're just gonna shut the senate down completely and still maintain order? But they're swayed by Tarkin's confidence in the Death Star's power and the empire's general military prowess being able to back up the will of the local imperial governors and stuff. And even if that clearly didn't work out all that well, you see how they came to be cool with that and go for it because they're assholes and are at this point an established huge empire and all that entails. Force Awakens it's like, this one upstart army on this one planet is sending a few ships around massacring stuff while Ren/Snoke's real purpose behind that is to track down Luke Skywalker. They're this fringe group the rest of the republic doesn't take seriously as a threat or whatever who brainwashes kids into serving them from when they're young. But then they blow up that entire solar system that has Hosnian or whatever that main political center of the galaxy was and like, folks are just...fine with that and they're allowed to begin conquering the galaxy from then? Like the does the rest of the galaxy even give a poo poo when Last Jedi is happening if the entire Resistance is like 20 people on the Falcon by the end and the First Order is just full blast chasing down this one ship and nothing else?
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 20:31 |
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 20:44 |
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For my money, Han and Leia's reunion scene in The Force Awakens is the worst scene in the entire series, as it's a 2-3 minute information dump that provides no meaningful character beats, and- remarkably- no meaningful information, either.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 20:49 |
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You learned that leia got a new hair cut which is actually very telling and important
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 20:50 |
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euphronius posted:You learned that leia got a new hair cut which is actually very telling and important She also apparently spent the last 30 years eating cigarettes.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 21:12 |
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Dishwasher posted:Now a want a Star Wars Shakespearean stage play.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 21:14 |
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:She also apparently spent the last 30 years eating cigarettes. "We are the spark of hope, that will light the fire, that will burn the First Order down" was actually a line from a performatively woke desthsticks ad.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 21:20 |
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What brand did Uncle Palp smoke?
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 21:35 |
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Carrie Fisher's voice really, really took me out of the new movies every time she was on screen. I know it wasn't her fault, but I can't reconcile the idea of Leia sounding like she has meth mouth.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 21:50 |
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Carrie Fisher's voice really, really took me out of the new movies every time she was on screen. I know it wasn't her fault, but I can't reconcile the idea of Leia sounding like she has meth mouth. She had that voice for ages. I remember being shocked when I saw her cameo in Scream 3 in the theater and she was already talking with meth mouth.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 21:55 |
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General Dog posted:For my money, Han and Leia's reunion scene in The Force Awakens is the worst scene in the entire series, as it's a 2-3 minute information dump that provides no meaningful character beats, and- remarkably- no meaningful information, either. My favorite part of the Star Wars 8 The Force Wakes Up is when Harrison Ford refuses to kiss Carrie Fisher and instead just pecks her head. It's probably in his contract that he wasn't going to be required to kiss her.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 22:03 |
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Dishwasher posted:Fair enough. The broader scope of the war isn't really touched on as well as I'd like. But, remember, many of the finer details in the OT were also left open to context clues and 'sequel-prequel'-bait while the PT had a little too much exposition on details to where its in danger of failing to 'show-don't-tell'. All three had goofy quirks in their execution (and lots of literal goofy rear end poo poo in general). The PT and OT stuck the landing with satisfying conclusions and maybe a feeling of some missed opportunities if examined objectively. If the ST has a good ending, and I do like this current leak much more than TLJ's around this time, much of it's quirks will be forgiven too I think.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 22:09 |
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Dishwasher posted:I think this is the main issue. This isn't Shakespeare. So there isn't a dick joke every five pages of the script, and in the end everyone won't be killed or married off?
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 22:56 |
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The sequels are just a mistake on every level.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 23:12 |
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KaptainKrunk posted:The sequels are just a mistake on every level.
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# ? Sep 3, 2019 23:37 |
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To be fair to the sequels, it is hard to try and continue a story that has already 100% finished. Stupid too, but that money is not gonna make itself and Disney didn't spend $4b to not make Star Wars films, so here we are.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 00:03 |
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garycoleisgod posted:To be fair to the sequels, it is hard to try and continue a story that has already 100% finished. it's less hard if you're willing to take the story into new directions
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 00:10 |
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Brother Entropy posted:it's less hard if you're willing to take the story into new directions Or tell entirely new stories in a rich and beloved setting, instead of making entire movies out of offhand mentions in the title scroll or explaining to death everything that used to be a fun and mysterious bit of background, or just letting a regarded man skull gently caress the corpse of an iconic character and filming it.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 00:58 |
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Brother Entropy posted:it's less hard if you're willing to take the story into new directions That would require talent, something Disney hasn't had for a while.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 01:50 |
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George H.W. oval office posted:“No Rey you are MY great-grandmother!” You see Sheev couldnt get to the world between worlds himself so he tricked a jedi to ferry his great grandmother through time to force impregnate her and re birth himself over time which is why
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 03:17 |
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Doronin posted:You see Sheev couldnt get to the world between worlds himself so he tricked a jedi to ferry his great grandmother through time to force impregnate her and re birth himself over time which is why This was an actual Captain Marvel storyline in like 1980 so I wouldn't put it past them.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 03:44 |
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Payndz posted:I'm certain that some years back I saw a book that retold ANH in iambic pentameter. There are books with that gimmick for most of the movies.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 05:24 |
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Sheev is the Sith Prince, the son of some Sith Lord and Princess Sheevalina.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 06:49 |
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Carrie Fisher's voice really, really took me out of the new movies every time she was on screen. I know it wasn't her fault, but I can't reconcile the idea of Leia sounding like she has meth mouth. It's amusing how Luke, Leia and Han grew up and turned into Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 17:14 |
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yeah I can’t really get behind the “well it’s hard to continue a story that was already finished” excuse when they literally did not have to try and continue that story. especially when they wiped the entire EU with the reasoning that they needed the freedom to tell new stories then proceeded to not tell any new stories. they gave themselves the total freedom to tell whatever original stories they want in this beloved fleshed out universe with this cashcow brand name and have so far done gently caress all with it outside Rogue One say what you want about the various bullshit in the EU, but if they had just cherry picked some post-ROTJ story arc to adapt and used it as an outline to adapt for a ST it would’ve been more coherent than what we’ve ended up with I was totally onboard when they wiped out all the convolutions of the old EU but at this point I would’ve much rather they just kept it and adapted what they wanted for movies
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 17:58 |
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IMO "there's no Star Wars stories left to tell! The universe is too limited!" rings kind of weak. You don't even have to be original, Clone Wars riffed on Godzilla, Seven Samurai or Hitchcock without problems, and there's an entire catalogue of pulpy stories to steal from just like the original movies did. The problem is the idea that the movies need escalating stakes, which means we keep getting Death Stars and Imperials because in terms of stakes, a dictatorship aiming to take over an entire galaxy and armed with planet-destroying weapons is kind of hard to topple. That Disney keeps recycling visuals from the original trilogy out of brand recognition doesn't help either, of course.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:25 |
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YaketySass posted:IMO "there's no Star Wars stories left to tell! The universe is too limited!" rings kind of weak. You don't even have to be original, Clone Wars riffed on Godzilla, Seven Samurai or Hitchcock without problems, and there's an entire catalogue of pulpy stories to steal from just like the original movies did. Why do they need escalating stakes?
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:26 |
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DeimosRising posted:Why do they need escalating stakes? Because they're making star wars themed marvel movies
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:38 |
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DeimosRising posted:Why do they need escalating stakes? They don't, he's just saying that the franchise's handlers believe they need escalating stakes, which is a problem.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:41 |
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DeimosRising posted:Why do they need escalating stakes? something something toyetic
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:43 |
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I just missed where he said “the problem is the idea they need escalating stakes”, coulda sworn that wasn’t there originally
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:47 |
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I didn't edit it, must have been on your end. And I mean, stuff like Starkiller Base or all the ridiculous weapons the EU invented post-ROTJ kind of says it all, right?
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 18:50 |
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The next trilogy should focus on Kylo Ren's attempts to use the Galaxy Net to turn adolescents into Incels and Rey's ForceTube videos refuting such efforts.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 19:12 |
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YaketySass posted:I didn't edit it, must have been on your end. They go big, George goes small: quote:“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 19:37 |
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Lucas is obviously joking and making fun of fans.
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# ? Sep 4, 2019 19:40 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 13:21 |
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It's not even about "escalating" stakes, it's about shifting stakes to something that makes sense in the larger politics of the world as time progresses, which are loosely tied to the real world history of geo-political struggles. Return of the Jedi wraps up, and: The Empire's collapsed, there's a fledgling New Republic, and there's plenty of bad actors acros the galaxy from the Hutt Cartels to the Imperial Remnant, any of whom would want to capitalize on sabotaging on the New Republic's attempts at building a stable new galactic order based on truth, justice, and democracy. There was Lando's Commandos in the old Star Wars Tales comics that told a story about a squadron of TIE Interceptions turned pirates after the Empire fell which raided trade convoys, which is a pretty good place to start from. Instead, we spend two movies blowing up the New Republic without any idea what that ended up being, and handwaving away the "Resistance" as it gets obliterated and rebranded into a "Rebellion," and apparently the First Order is essentially an Empire again going into ROTS. The Sequels make the OT everyone knows and loves essentially a massive waste of time that went nowhere, and we should just embrace our inevitable future being crushed under eternal, galactic fascism. Thanks, Bob. Great message for the kiddos. Watch The Expanse instead Taintrunner fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 4, 2019 |
# ? Sep 4, 2019 19:46 |