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listen if i cant buy an F-350 dually to haul my hog to Sturgis once a year what was the point of America
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May 6, 2020 15:57
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Fuel in Europe is expensive enough that even upper-middle-class types care about real world fuel economy, so purchasing decisions reflect that.
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May 6, 2020 15:59
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SlapActionJackson posted:Fuel in Europe is expensive enough that even upper-middle-class types care about real world fuel economy, so purchasing decisions reflect that. A lot of the poor in America are driving 1999 Suburbans 80 miles a day commuting from cheap suburbs to where jobs are. Fuel taxes would absolutely clobber lower-income people unless we did something to offset them. Conversely, if you're the one buying a new $74k LTZ Suburban, you don't give a gently caress about how much gas costs because depreciation is going to massively outweigh it.
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May 6, 2020 16:01
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IOwnCalculus posted:Also lol if you think people aren't literally already buying >8500 GVWR trucks for their "interior decorating" "businesses" and writing that the gently caress off. In SC, this is currently a perfectly shiny, lifted, 4dr F350 or Duramax. It’s the heir apparent to the sedan.
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May 6, 2020 16:11
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IOwnCalculus posted:Also lol if you think people aren't literally already buying >8500 GVWR trucks for their "interior decorating" "businesses" and writing that the gently caress off. at least that way they gotta jump through a hoop or two Twerk from Home posted:A lot of the poor in America are driving 1999 Suburbans 80 miles a day commuting from cheap suburbs to where jobs are. Fuel taxes would absolutely clobber lower-income people unless we did something to offset them. yeah this is why i'm pro GVWR tax. gently caress it apply it to companies too up to stuff requiring CDLs, costs will get passed on and it will at least be less regressive than gas tax.
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May 6, 2020 16:30
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My favourite road tax solution is in Poland. The road tax is applied to fuel, you drive more, or drive something thirsty, you pay more tax. Simple and elegant. Means you don't have to pay through the nose on things you do 600 miles a year in either
Grakkus fucked around with this message at 17:08 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 17:06
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Grakkus posted:My favourite road tax solution is in Poland. The road tax is applied to fuel, you drive more, you pay more tax. horribly regressive in the US anyway
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May 6, 2020 17:06
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Murgos posted:Define a test 'family' of cars from a manufacturer that use a similar engine, transmission and etc.. and let the manufacturer supply some cars from each of those drive train perturbations weighted to sales expectation. For certification distribute a weighted average number of each perturbation randomly among the population and record their real world performance (this doesn't need to be free, it could be subsidized, i.e. at cost, with the understanding that the user must maintain the test records and reporting or pay full sticker price). Along with this empirical testing the manufacturer should supply analysis for the expected behavior over time and at end of life and show that it stays within the expected boundaries. lmao
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May 6, 2020 17:12
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AFAIK, most of the countries in the EU has some kind of emissions-based tax on new cars these days. In Sweden at least, if a car was first registered in 2005 or earlier the tax is completely based on weight, registered after 2005 it's completely emissions based. And at 30 years or older the car becomes tax-exempt.
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May 6, 2020 17:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:horribly regressive in the US anyway Aren't all road taxes regressive though? It's not so high that poorer Poles are destroyed by it, a fast food worker can still afford to drive to work every day, and it means that people can afford to keep a fun weekend car at much lower income levels, while also paying for infrastructure. By comparison, the crushing biyearly road taxes in Denmark mean that everyone drives a 1L VW Up or Yaris except the 10% that can do whatever the gently caress they want.
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May 6, 2020 17:17
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Jacking up fuel prices on Americans with no public transit options for transport to a job they’re scraping by a living and are 500$ away from eviction and bankruptcy is a bad idea. I don’t disagree on overall principle but it doesn’t work in a failed state like the US.
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May 6, 2020 17:20
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I think one of the things keeping people from using trucks as family transport in Europe is that any vehicle with a GVWR over 3500kg (7700 lbs) is by definition a commercial vehicle. They require truck licenses and cannot legally exceed 50 mph. Not sure it its the same for all of Europe though. I sometimes see half-tones like Raptors, but never any heavier pick ups than that.
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May 6, 2020 17:33
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It's not just America, the situation is much the same in Canada where distances are vast by the standards of more densely populated regions and public infrastructure is mediocre at best. Even if you live in one of the better cities a vehicle is basically necessary for most people.
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May 6, 2020 17:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:horribly regressive in the US anyway Also results in horribly underfunded infrastructure when the tax rate never changes over time but fuel consumption does.
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May 6, 2020 18:08
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Start by making the gas guzzler tax apply to trucks, it’s that simple.
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May 6, 2020 18:13
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I think it's quaint that we are all talking about regulations that affect people as if they were a thing that could be enacted anymore. We have people being shot and killed over telling someone they need to wear a facemask to go into a Dollar General. You make trucks un-affordable, you are going to have people burning down government buildings. We've rapidly slipped into mob rule. Government isn't allowed to tell them to do anything anymore.
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May 6, 2020 18:18
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We have a national culture built on the myth of resisting government “tyranny” and it isn’t going anywhere.
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May 6, 2020 18:33
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Still can't stop taxes, good luck to the mob with that one. It's actually pretty simple because the people that don't actually need trucks would eventually stop buying them. If you want to use one to make money, put a business on the books and write off the poo poo you can. Or pay the tax and STFU. gently caress Jim Bob revolting because he can't afford his F250 anymore, he can drive a god drat Camry.
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May 6, 2020 20:31
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Still can't stop taxes, good luck to the mob with that one. You don't think? I could easily see guys with assault rifles camping out at gas stations, effectively closing them.
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May 6, 2020 20:52
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Still can't stop taxes, good luck to the mob with that one of course you can, the entire reason that regressive taxes like consumption and income taxes exist is that the government isn't allowed to tax capital the mistake is in assuming that "the people" have power
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May 6, 2020 21:07
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Wheeee posted:of course you can, the entire reason that regressive taxes like consumption and income taxes exist is that the government isn't allowed to tax capital They do! Corporations are legally people now. 
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May 6, 2020 21:11
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bull3964 posted:You don't think? I could easily see guys with assault rifles camping out at gas stations, effectively closing them. I didn't mean a tax on gas but a tax on trucks or GVWR with an exemption for legit businesses that need them. GM and Ford would just bring back the ute so rednecks can have their "trucks" [e] Besides, just because a few idiots with assault rifles were hanging out at the Michigan capital doesn't mean they could possibly shut down al the drat gas stations in the country you're giving them way too much credit Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 21:51 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 21:48
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Applebees Appetizer posted:I didn't mean a tax on gas but a tax on trucks or GVWR with an exemption for legit businesses that need them. Don't exempt anything or you'll create loopholes that the wealthy will exploit. Huge heavy trucks cause more wear on the roads and should pay for their negative externalities.
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May 6, 2020 21:51
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Ok then allow them to write off some of it for their business after the initial tax on the purchase? Either way, the actual wealthy truck owners are in the minority, the problem is everyone else driving trucks around they don't need.
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May 6, 2020 21:55
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the entire reason those right wing groups are allowed to congregate on government buildings while carrying rifles is precisely because they aren't a threat to power
Wheeee fucked around with this message at 21:59 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 21:56
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Wheeee posted:the entire reason those right wing groups are allowed to congregate on government buildings while carrying rifles is precisely because they aren't threat to power Yet they are clearly affecting policy since several places have rescinded mask requirements to avoid violence.
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May 6, 2020 21:58
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Jack B Nimble posted:How does Europe do it? I mean, I have some half assed assumptions about gas prices, vehicle taxes, safety ratings, and the practicality of road geometry; is it pretty much that? Smaller roads, denser population. Grakkus posted:My favourite road tax solution is in Poland. The road tax is applied to fuel, you drive more, or drive something thirsty, you pay more tax. Simple and elegant. Means you don't have to pay through the nose on things you do 600 miles a year in either I lived about 40 miles from my last job. The only town closer (population 8000) had almost no housing because the nearby military base had demolished half of base housing to rebuild it, so there were several hundred families living in town that normally wouldn't be. I already got reamed by fuel costs, and as a result I almost never left my tiny "the only place to shop is a Walmart" town except to go to work. Going to a bar, a movie theater, a Home Depot...that was just as far in the opposite direction. No thanks.
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May 6, 2020 22:21
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Applebees Appetizer posted:GM and Ford would just bring back the ute so rednecks can have their "trucks" One can only hope and dream.
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May 6, 2020 23:51
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There will never be a tax on trucks because the manufacturers will never let their senators pass it.
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May 7, 2020 00:17
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LeeMajors posted:Jacking up fuel prices on Americans with no public transit options for transport to a job they’re scraping by a living and are 500$ away from eviction and bankruptcy is a bad idea. Godholio posted:No thanks. Yeah, I was just commenting on some European tax systems, it wouldn't work without some drastic changes being implemented over there.
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May 7, 2020 00:18
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Minnesota Mixup posted:There will never be a tax on trucks because the manufacturers will never let their senators pass it.
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May 7, 2020 00:21
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bull3964 posted:Yet they are clearly affecting policy since several places have rescinded mask requirements to avoid violence. They are useful tools to push a policy agenda that capital is in favor of, namely re-opening businesses. All of the re-open protests are astroturfed to hell.
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May 7, 2020 01:15
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YOLOsubmarine posted:They are useful tools to push a policy agenda that capital is in favor of, namely re-opening businesses. We already are this in how now that some states are "open" it turns out nobody is "buying" wow wonder why 
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May 7, 2020 02:10
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Midjack posted:They do! Corporations are legally people now. This is not new though. Corporations are indeed people from a legal point of view. Actual living, breathing people are natural persons, which is a subset of people 
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May 7, 2020 02:23
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Was there ever a liftback/sportback four-seater in the US with a manual transmission? All I can think of is the OG Mazda 6 and maybe the Audi TT, but I’m wondering if something like the A5 or one of the silly four door coupes was ever offered like this.
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May 7, 2020 14:50
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blk posted:Was there ever a liftback/sportback four-seater in the US with a manual transmission? All I can think of is the OG Mazda 6 and maybe the Audi TT, but I’m wondering if something like the A5 or one of the silly four door coupes was ever offered like this. Scion TC probably fits the bill here.
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May 7, 2020 15:03
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blk posted:Was there ever a liftback/sportback four-seater in the US with a manual transmission? All I can think of is the OG Mazda 6 and maybe the Audi TT, but I’m wondering if something like the A5 or one of the silly four door coupes was ever offered like this. Mustang, AE86 hatch, Celica, Supra, 318ti, 928, 944, there are tons. For four door versions probably a lot fewer.
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May 7, 2020 15:16
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Scion TC probably fits the bill here. Yeah but the manual is not very good unfortunately. Horrible clutch feel and not much better shifter either. The 4 speed automatic is the better choice in that situation.
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May 7, 2020 15:18
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Do hot hatches count? Edit: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/06/vandenbrinks-ferrari-612-shooting-brake-is-the-ultimate-v12-powered-wagon/ Serious edit: Porsche Panamera. KillHour fucked around with this message at 15:30 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 15:20
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KillHour posted:Do hot hatches count? Panamera was only available with a manual in Germany I think.
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May 7, 2020 15:39
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