Dungeon Crawl: coglin chaos knights have an unfortunate abbreviation

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Reginald Bathwater: Dec 19, 2009; MINE EYES CAN BUT WEEP AS THEY BEAR WITNESS TO THE MAJESTY... THE BFG 9000!

Make iron shot into scatter shot, it�s already identical to LCS and stone arrow aside from level

# ? May 11, 2020 04:48

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:14

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

*BZZT* That overlaps with an already existing mechanic of tremorstones so it will not be done. BUT now that you mention it, Iron Shot IS just an intermediate step in the Earth Magic spell list, we'll just cut this out and consider what will replace it in the next version (it will not be replaced in the next version).

~Current state of the spell rework, Act III

# ? May 11, 2020 13:56

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I think it would be fine to do that. LCS, Iron Shot and Stone Arrow are all just different steps on the single-target direct-damage projectile attack scale for Conjuration/Earth Magic effects. There don't need to be three of them that are functionally identical within a single school combination. If they were spread out over multiple combinations I might disagree, but as it is that's a bit needlessly redundant.

Seems like a reasonable change. Any opinions?

# ? May 11, 2020 14:08

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Cardiovorax posted:

I think it would be fine to do that. LCS, Iron Shot and Stone Arrow are all just different steps on the single-target direct-damage projectile attack scale for Conjuration/Earth Magic effects. There don't need to be three of them that are functionally identical within a single school combination. If they were spread out over multiple combinations I might disagree, but as it is that's a bit needlessly redundant.

Seems like a reasonable change. Any opinions?

remove all three to promote tactical variance

# ? May 11, 2020 14:11

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I mean opinions where we aren't roleplaying Trunk devs.

# ? May 11, 2020 14:12

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Cardiovorax posted:

I mean opinions where we aren't roleplaying Trunk devs.

wait, you weren't roleplaying a trunk dev?

# ? May 11, 2020 14:13

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Dunno, I think turning Iron Shot into Iron Shotgun sounds p. fun.

# ? May 11, 2020 15:26

Arzaac: Jan 2, 2020

Change one of them into a spell that temporarily changes your quiver into x number of projectiles (x dependent on spell power). You've got a limited number of turns to use those projectiles. They of course still function as spells.

# ? May 11, 2020 16:29

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

Cardiovorax posted:

I think it would be fine to do that. LCS, Iron Shot and Stone Arrow are all just different steps on the single-target direct-damage projectile attack scale for Conjuration/Earth Magic effects. There don't need to be three of them that are functionally identical within a single school combination. If they were spread out over multiple combinations I might disagree, but as it is that's a bit needlessly redundant.

Seems like a reasonable change. Any opinions?

it seems to me that the main reason for the existence of both Iron Shot and LCS is because LCS is in a weird spot because it's 2-3 levels higher than you'd expect it to be. It makes up for that with giant damage but that doesn't matter when you can't cast it, so Iron Shot exists pretty much entirely as a way to tide earth mages over until they can get LCS castable(or for something that they just stick to because they want to save a few spell levels/MP). Generally speaking people aren't gonna know both LCS and Iron Shot even though they have the same schools, because there's no point: you pick one and don't learn the other, outside of numbers they really are the same spell.

turning Iron Shot into Scattershot and dropping Conjuration from its requirement would be an interesting change but wouldn't gently caress over EEs by forcing them to make a straight run to LCS

# ? May 11, 2020 17:09

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

also make Scattershot use sling bullets as ammunition like Sandblast uses rocks

# ? May 11, 2020 17:12

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

cock hero flux posted:

Generally speaking people aren't gonna know both LCS and Iron Shot even though they have the same schools, because there's no point: you pick one and don't learn the other, outside of numbers they really are the same spell.

turning Iron Shot into Scattershot and dropping Conjuration from its requirement would be an interesting change but wouldn't gently caress over EEs by forcing them to make a straight run to LCS

Makes sense. It's a change I'd support. I think there's an interesting choice in picking between a mid-level AOE attack versus a slightly higher-level but much more powerful single shot attack. Earth in general kind of lacks in useful AOE options other than LRD other than Shatter, if I remember correctly, so that would give it some variety. Maybe LCS' range could be increased a little to compensate? Make it a choice between a sniper build versus a closer-ranged AOE build.

# ? May 11, 2020 17:17

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Reginald Bathwater posted:

Make iron shot into scatter shot, it�s already identical to LCS and stone arrow aside from level

cock hero flux posted:

also make Scattershot use sling bullets as ammunition like Sandblast uses rocks

# ? May 11, 2020 17:23

Oldstench: Jun 29, 2007; Let's talk about where you're going.

So, would I be correct in assuming that the consensus is to not play the "official" branch and go with goonsoup?

# ? May 11, 2020 17:41

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

Oldstench posted:

So, would I be correct in assuming that the consensus is to not play the "official" branch and go with goonsoup?

you should play whichever branch most appeals to you

i can't really imagine why that would be trunk but if for some reason it is then go nuts

# ? May 11, 2020 17:43

A Strange Aeon: Mar 26, 2010; You are now a slimy little toad; The Great Twist

I love Goonsoup, how come they went with Gooncrawl? I guess that's keeping with the other fork naming conventions, but Goonsoup is so evocative!

# ? May 11, 2020 18:13

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

I want to give contemporary Gooncrawl a spin but: CEO is still borked (not complaining, just stating) and I loving hate setting up build environments on Windows (definitely complaining). Is there any other online server running Gooncrawl less than a year old? Or does anyone happen to have a recent Windows dev build lying around?

# ? May 11, 2020 18:46

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Stathol posted:

I want to give contemporary Gooncrawl a spin but: CEO is still borked (not complaining, just stating) and I loving hate setting up build environments on Windows (definitely complaining). Is there any other online server running Gooncrawl less than a year old? Or does anyone happen to have a recent Windows dev build lying around?

I'll kick a build off while I'm still teleworking (surprisingly have gotten little downtime for extra Gooncrawl work).

# ? May 11, 2020 18:51

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Stathol posted:

I want to give contemporary Gooncrawl a spin but: CEO is still borked (not complaining, just stating) and I loving hate setting up build environments on Windows (definitely complaining). Is there any other online server running Gooncrawl less than a year old? Or does anyone happen to have a recent Windows dev build lying around?

I play on CKO.

# ? May 11, 2020 19:13

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

Floodkiller posted:

I'll kick a build off while I'm still teleworking (surprisingly have gotten little downtime for extra Gooncrawl work).

Much appreciated. As a professional developer, I feel bad even asking that, but a piece of my soul dies every time I have to deal with toolchains on Windows.

PMush Perfect posted:

I play on CKO.

Isn't that a really old build, or am I an idiot? It appears to be 0.22, which I assume corresponds to trunk 0.22, which would make it about a 16 months old. But I don't really know anything about Gooncrawl's development pace -- Maybe not much has happened since then.

# ? May 11, 2020 19:34

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

kelbi definitely pulls whatever the latest non-dev version of gooncrawl is, there just hasn't been any changes in a bit.

araganzar was working on testing some cool stuff that I was excited about back in like February, but I'm pretty sure he's got Real Life Problems going on, so

# ? May 11, 2020 19:48

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Stathol posted:

Much appreciated. As a professional developer, I feel bad even asking that, but a piece of my soul dies every time I have to deal with toolchains on Windows.

Isn't that a really old build, or am I an idiot? It appears to be 0.22, which I assume corresponds to trunk 0.22, which would make it about a 16 months old. But I don't really know anything about Gooncrawl's development pace -- Maybe not much has happened since then.

That's the latest, I have never fixed the version number because I've been lazy :v:

# ? May 11, 2020 20:03

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

Ah, okay. Well nevermind then. I've already got a game in progress on CKO, even. I just stopped to question to the version. I don't care about being absolute bleeding edge; I'd just prefer not to be way behind.

# ? May 11, 2020 20:07

Resting Lich Face: Feb 21, 2019; This case of an intraperitoneal zucchini is unusual, and does raise questions as to how hard one has to push a blunt vegetable to perforate the rectum.

tylertfb posted:

Purely aesthetic idea: Add the Jory Death Blood Explosion effect to the Bloodbane sword.

# ? May 11, 2020 20:07

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

tylertfb posted:

Purely aesthetic idea: Add the Jory Death Blood Explosion effect to the Bloodbane sword.

Trunk devs added it to Leech for you, so I grabbed that commit and just changed it to also apply to Bloodbane (Leech and Bloodbane were merged in trunk).

Linux build (May 11, 2020): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HwUSHBoEuQk26kzz3JEkC2geUDe7RSuE
Windows build (May 11, 2020): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wze3yNQoF6KBeGDQ9Ew21M_crc7vd-f7

# ? May 11, 2020 21:23

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

Awesome.

Unrelated, I spun up a VpEn of Kiku for my first Gooncrawl game because that's my personal "old reliable" combo. I've cleared out Lair, Orc, the main Dungeon. and the first level of Depths. I bailed on Depths 2 because Norris.

I'm not sure what all has changed, and I'm hella rusty to boot, so I'm looking for some advice. I'll spare you all a full char dump, but current stats:

code:

      Skill           Level Train  Apt       Skill           Level Train  Apt
  a + Fighting         7.4  16%    -1    g - Spellcasting    10.9         -1
  b + Short Blades    12.9  16%    +1    h - Conjurations     0.0         -3
      Long Blades      9.4          0    i - Hexes           14.5         +4
  c - Unarmed Combat   0.0         +1    j - Charms           8.0         +1
                                         k + Necromancy      14.0  16%    +1
  d - Throwing         0.0         -2    l - Ice Magic        0.0          0
                                         m - Air Magic        0.0          0
  e + Armour           6.7  16%    -2
  f + Dodging          9.2  16%    +1    n - Evocations       0.0         -1
                                         o + Stealth         19.5  16%    +5

And my current spell loadout:

code:

 Your Spells                   Type                          Failure     Level  
 c - Confuse                       Hexes                         1%          3
 h - Ensorcelled Hibernation       Hexes/Ice                     1%          2
 i - Invisibility                  Hexes                         2%          6
 m - Repel Missiles                Charms/Air                    1%          2
 n - Corona                        Hexes                         1%          1
 q - Swiftness                     Charms/Air                    1%          2
 t - Tukima's Dance                Hexes                         1%          3
 u + Dispel Undead                 Necromancy                    1%          5
 z - Dazzling Spray                Conjuration/Hexes             1%          3

This is usually the point where hexes just isn't enough anymore. Everything that's actually dangerous has MR+++++++++ and can see invisible. I'm not sure what I want to branch into to deal with dangerous uniques, and everything else that I can't safely backstab. All of my successful VpEns in the past have gone into summoning with eye towards Haunt (and because aura of abjuration makes a lot of annoying and dangerous things less annoying and dangerous. But I don't know if my old habits are making me pass over things that might be better. I have immediate access to spammals and mana viper. The book of Callings and Summonings are available to me at a price.

What else is good in necro these days for vampires? I'm assuming sublimation of blood no longer works on wielded blood bottles? I haven't come across agony yet. Holding off on asking for the necronomicon because I'd rather find it somewhere and get a quickblade of pain from kiku if I can. I'm probably going to try for an extended game even though I'll probably just die.

# ? May 11, 2020 23:40

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

turn iron shot into an Imperfect Crystal Spear that shatters when it hits a monster and sends out a spray of fragments either behind it or in front of it to catch more monsters and maybe inflict bleeding and whatever

# ? May 12, 2020 01:03

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

Well, never mind I guess. I got completely wrecked by Shoals. I forgot how terrible that place is with the constant movement denial.

# ? May 12, 2020 01:52

A Strange Aeon: Mar 26, 2010; You are now a slimy little toad; The Great Twist

Stathol posted:

Well, never mind I guess. I got completely wrecked by Shoals. I forgot how terrible that place is with the constant movement denial.

Yeah, my first time through I had boots of flying so didn't notice it so much. My second time through it wrecked me too!

# ? May 12, 2020 02:17

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Shoals is a good branch. You actually care what the opposition is doing, and tabbing will get you killed, but not via damage spikes.

Unlike say spider, which involves a lot of chasing down and hitting 5. And then turbosplatting since you forgot ghost moths exist.

# ? May 12, 2020 02:39

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

There's lots of counterplay options for Shoals, too. Reflection is my personal favorite.

Edit:

PMush Perfect posted:

Bring at least one of the following, but as many as you can manage:
- Absurd MR
- Lots of potions of flight and/or an evocable source of flight with a decent Evocations
- A good shield and/or amulet of Reflection
- If you're really ballsy, a chokepoint and lig potions
- Necromutation(??? maybe, I've never played full Necro)
- Lots of scrolls of fog and a hella good stairdance game
- Worship Fedhas and \[T]/ Praise the Sun(light)!

Edit Repel/Deflect Missiles works, too. Really, you just need some kind of way to deal with all the nets and javelins and manticore spines and giant boulders aside from "facetank it", and some way to deal with the sirens aside from "try to kill them before they drown me". It's the weirdest 'main' branch, because while most of the others are just "do you have rPois and a way to deal with [strong monster here]", Shoals requires a lot of prepwork to really handle right.

Edit2 Or you can play a Formicid with a large shield and an amulet of reflection and cackle maniacally as everything kills itself trying to harm you.

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 02:44 on May 12, 2020

# ? May 12, 2020 02:41

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

Yeah, in retrospect, I remember now that my rule for Shoals on VpEn was "not until I have invisibility and flight", at which point it's basically game over for everything in shoals. It was probably completely doable with just rMsl, invisibility, and judicious use of bat flight if I were in proper form again. I was just not sufficiently paranoid and got squished on Shoals:4. I got barbed by a lucky shot from a manticore while in bat form while standing somewhere that would have been suicide to fight. I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't at that point.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:38

Shady Amish Terror: Oct 11, 2007; I'm not Amish by choice. 8(

Shoals is not a bad branch, but I do often find it to be an exhausting branch to play. Sources of fear and fog and ranged weapon mitigation and ranged damage are all invaluable, and on most runs I still have at least one near-death scrape there even with a full kit. Shoals is probably disproportionately dangerous to me, specifically, due to bad play against its unique obstacles.

Alternatively, leave Shoals for way later than you should and laugh your way through it with BVC or the Maximum Loud Qazlal build or something, that's always a hoot.

# ? May 12, 2020 04:09

Resting Lich Face: Feb 21, 2019; This case of an intraperitoneal zucchini is unusual, and does raise questions as to how hard one has to push a blunt vegetable to perforate the rectum.

I always do shoals as late as possible.

# ? May 12, 2020 04:51

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

PMush Perfect posted:

There's lots of counterplay options for Shoals, too. Reflection is my personal favorite.

Edit:

If you are able to reliably cast necromutation in shoals you shouldn't be having any trouble with that branch in my opinion.

It's generally a rough place that can get out of hand quickly if you aren't paying attention (but which branch isn't?) but has a really nasty bottom to it that amps the difficulty up to maybe something like Elf:3-lite. The water nymphs and sirens are surprisingly scary, and getting pelted with javelins isn't nice either. Add in the water mages or and gladiators and manticore barbs and maybe even a kraken... Pretty rough. I can't remember but can alligator turtles spawn there too or is that a lair thing? And then on top of that you're dealing with water screwing up your movement and poor chances to really hole up and take a breather.

# ? May 12, 2020 21:36

Stathol: Jun 28, 2008

Blech. Lost another very promising VpEn in Elf:2 this time to a summoned executioner. I really don't know how to deal with those kinds of situations. The only counter I ever have is to read tele, chain chug cure wounds, and pray that the facetank gods will favor me for 3(?) turns. And then favor me again by not throwing me into the middle of some clusterfuck at low HP.

I'm willing to accept that I'm just bad at Crawl, but this has been a recurring problem for me ever since they started shortening all the branches. I try to keep my skills as focused as reasonably possible because spread is death. Even so it feels like I just don't have enough XP to get over the power disparity that hits me around the start of the midgame. I can nearly 100% always clear Lair, the main dungeon, and spiders/snake, and without much difficulty. I can also dip into the Depths a bit, before things start getting too spicy. But after that, it's like there's nowhere I can go to get stronger that doesn't have a very high likelihood of killing me.

# ? May 12, 2020 22:45

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

XP has been feeling a bit tight lately. Maybe it would be a good idea to expand some of the branches again.

# ? May 12, 2020 22:47

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I've been filling that with Abyss, because finding the rune takes forever when you're only strong enough for Abyss 3, but that's probably not a statement of confidence.

# ? May 12, 2020 22:53

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Cardiovorax posted:

XP has been feeling a bit tight lately. Maybe it would be a good idea to expand some of the branches again.

It's been tight for anyone not during pure "hit enemies with weapon and tank hits with heavy armor" ever since trunkdev started trimming branches down(and gooncrawl forked off after that happened).

Either expanding lair back to 8 levels or the lair branches back to 5 levels would help a bit during the worst part for most people. Or giving us orc 3 back.

# ? May 12, 2020 23:21

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

Stathol posted:

Blech. Lost another very promising VpEn in Elf:2 this time to a summoned executioner. I really don't know how to deal with those kinds of situations. The only counter I ever have is to read tele, chain chug cure wounds, and pray that the facetank gods will favor me for 3(?) turns. And then favor me again by not throwing me into the middle of some clusterfuck at low HP.

I'm willing to accept that I'm just bad at Crawl, but this has been a recurring problem for me ever since they started shortening all the branches. I try to keep my skills as focused as reasonably possible because spread is death. Even so it feels like I just don't have enough XP to get over the power disparity that hits me around the start of the midgame. I can nearly 100% always clear Lair, the main dungeon, and spiders/snake, and without much difficulty. I can also dip into the Depths a bit, before things start getting too spicy. But after that, it's like there's nowhere I can go to get stronger that doesn't have a very high likelihood of killing me.

I had this problem with enchaters too till I started running away way, way earlier than I did before. Now I can get four runes consistently with them. gently caress the slime pit though

# ? May 13, 2020 00:56

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:14

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Haifisch posted:

It's been tight for anyone not during pure "hit enemies with weapon and tank hits with heavy armor" ever since trunkdev started trimming branches down(and gooncrawl forked off after that happened).

Either expanding lair back to 8 levels or the lair branches back to 5 levels would help a bit during the worst part for most people. Or giving us orc 3 back.

Orc 3 will do around nothing for XP but it is some gold, shop chances, and also just getting to explore the branch and let its weird paths/connectivity shine. Shortening to 2 just made it such a cliff.

# ? May 13, 2020 00:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dungeon Crawl: coglin chaos knights have an unfortunate abbreviation

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