|
I kind of want a Friday/Alien matchup now so I have an excuse to make y'all rewatch Jason X.
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:19 |
|
|
Debbie Does Dagon posted:Oh cool, let me check this out...   True horror. STAC Goat posted:Vote for Friday the 13th, it sucks so much it won't make any of the losers feel self conscious. Hahahaha, exactly. feedmyleg posted:Nah. I think it's more like Shakespeare—nobody thinks that plays have been a series of diminishing returns just because there's one inescapable gorilla in the room. Nobody rolls their eyes at Ibsen and goes "Yeah, but what's the point? He's no Shakespeare. It's all been downhill since 1613!" It's going to lurk in the background of every conversation about the medium but that doesn't mean that it devalues what comes after. If we had a similar tournament about playwrites we'd be facing the same issue. Oh for sure. It's an irrational worry, and it's really not weighing in on my voting. Just a lingering thought.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 19:27
|
|
|
Pretty much every argument you could make in favor of Friday the 13th over Universal applied to Chucky as well, only Chucky maintains a consistently higher level of quality than F13 with both better standout movies and low points that aren't as low. Friday the 13th is missing its Cult/Curse to make me go "wow this is a great franchise that can both still make its classic approach interesting and veer off in really cool and interesting new directions". You people passed over a delicious and reliable omelette and now you're championing oatmeal for its consistency. Most of these bowls don't even have cinnamon or anything in them. gently caress that, Universal gets this one easy.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:21
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:Yeah, my mentality at this point is "No matter who loses, we win". I love films in all four franchises, and they're all strong. The problem is that when we talk about franchises, you really have these two camps. You have stuff like Evil Dead, Friday, and Child's Play that's not high art, but fun and consistent. Then you have stuff like The Exorcist, Scream, TCM, Psycho, the Lecterverse that actually had these really excellent movies with ya know themes and poo poo, but had mixed result as franchises and probably should have never been franchises to begin with. Universal's Strength is that it threads the needle pretty well. it was two legitimately great movies and one very important movie, but also has fun goofy sequels that never feel diminishing. As someone who wants Universal to win, I also think "horror these days" folks are insane and we've been in a golden age of horror for like eleven years now. It's just that we don't get It Follows Again or The Babadeuce or The Shape of Water Lives or Black Philip Begins: The Witch 2. And that's fine.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:23
|
|
|
Evil Dead is high art.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:40
|
|
|
I also think franchises just age better with time. Once you can see them in a whole and the hype or blowback for them has died down I think people can step back and judge them easier. Friday the 13th's advocates basically acknowledge it half sucks at least but they enjoy it and have had fun with it through the years. I think a franchise like Paranormal Activity will probably be judged better 10 years down the line when people who roll their eyes at it now get over their issues with "found footage" or "jump scares" or the hype around the PA films. Then you can just watch this weird franchise with a surprising meta plot for better or worse. Its part of why I don't want the Universals to win, but its also part of its strength. Its been around so long that we've all done the work to analyze it, compartmentalize the good movies from the bad movies, and appreciate the pros of the silly ones. Hell, most of us had all that work done BEFORE we watched them. Because I think anyone who says House of Dracula doesn't "diminish" the films the way bad sequels to modern stuff do I think are being selective. I liked that bad film fine, but its the exact kind of bad franchise cash in we bemoan. I don't want Universals to win and I've already said why so I'm not gonna waste more of your time. But if they do win I don't think that says anything except that they're really great movies. It just legitimizes their reputations and I dare say my belief that they should be fighting at a higher weight class.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:41
|
|
|
TrixRabbi posted:Evil Dead is high art. I've been ready for this fight.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:53
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Evil Dead is a really fun film that is very important in several ways. But also has a rape scene that is kinda gross and sorta played for laughs. While the actors are having fun, they're not particularly well drawn. I always forget that Cheryl is Ash's sister. I've watched the movie so many times and on the recent rewatch, I didn't remember that till the end of the movie. I've also seen lots of people struggle to get through it and find it boring. The rape scene was never played for laughs, though? Raimi and Tappert intended it to be the most disturbing scene in the film to "punish the audience" by making the only reasonable and scared person suffer the most.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:54
|
|
|
I don't want to say too much in case someone hasn't seen it but I really think Ash vs the Evil Dead really puts a good cap on a lot of the iffier stuff from the films. Like Cheryl being Ash's sister is a whole major plot point of S2. I don't think the rape scene was played for laughs, but I think the whole film has such a weird dark humor tone that it can get muddied.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 20:55
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't want to say too much in case someone hasn't seen it but I really think Ash vs the Evil Dead really puts a good cap on a lot of the iffier stuff from the films. Like Cheryl being Ash's sister is a whole major plot point of S2. Oh yeah, once you realize Ash has a major weakness to empty shelves, it gets pretty goofy.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 21:00
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't think the rape scene was played for laughs, but I think the whole film has such a weird dark humor tone that it can get muddied.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 21:01
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah I don't know if "For laughs" is the right word for it, but I think you're right in that. I also watched Raimi's Hamburger Helper horror short which includes some sexual assault for laughs before my most recent rewatch, so it jaded me a bit. Regardless, I'm not a fan of the scene. Again, that was directed by Rob Tappert, who wrote it, and who also wrote and chose to do the Tree Rape. Raimi's goofy and sadistic, but Tappert's the guy that's more open to sexual (assault) horror (and comedy).
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 21:02
|
|
|
Yeah, I think its an unfortunate combination of the tone of the film and Raimi's work and something that was "edgy" 40 years ago aging really badly. It was definitely the scene that when I was a teen you and your friends would go "Woah!" about and I cringe a bit thinking back on that. I also think it can be easy to forget that Evil Dead is FORTY YEARS OLD. So like, I'm actually surprised there's not MORE poo poo that ages badly than there is especially since Raimi and Campbell have always kind of walked the line.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
I'm just saying, if you're gonna sit here and tell me Evil Dead II isn't one of the greatest films ever made then do you even like movies?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
I knew when this was started that there would end up being hard choices, and some of the match ups have been hard for me to decide. Having to decide between Friday the 13th and the Classic Universals has to be the hardest one yet for me. On the one side, it's the Universals that were my entry into loving Horror. I'm on the younger end of the scale for the Monster Kids. I grew up putting together the Aurora models, voraciously reading any Horror mag I could lay my hands on, played with loads of toys that had knockoff images of Frankenstein's Monster/Dracula/Wolfman on them, diligently watched the movies when the Saturday Horror Hosts would show them along with never missing an episode of The Munsters/Addams Family when they were on, and made many a mess in the kitchen and bathroom trying to replicate the monster makeup with what I could find in the house. Just hearing the opening notes of Swan Lake puts a smile on my face and I'm seeing the title imagery of the movies in my head. No matter how many times I've sat through the movies, I still get misty eyed over Frankenstein's Monster just wanting a friend and Larry Talbot's horror at realizing he's the werewolf on the prowl. On the other side, Friday the 13th was what really pushed me firmly on the path to being the Horror Movie Junkie I am now. Halloween opened the door, Friday the 13th put the boot to my rear end to get stepping. Yeah, the films aren't terribly creative, but they did establish the template for slashers. It was like a floodgate opened and it was horror films in abundance. I couldn't even begin to estimate how many hours I've spent discussing and debating the franchise over the years. Hardest was with the other Monster Kids as moreso then than now, there was a serious rift in the horror community over the older films with ambiance and nuance, and the newer films that pulled no splatter punches. Whatever iffiness was there over the more bloody films like Hammer was nothing compared to the vitriol directed at the slasher style horror. Didn't help that I could understand each side's perspective and felt there's room for it all. So, here I sit feeling torn because I love both. Plenty of nostalgia for both and I appreciate each's impact on the horror genre.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 21:10
|
|
Debbie Does Dagon posted:I was thinking more iconic lines You were pointing to iconic lines and didn't include this???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRWbg8A3rDg
|
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 22:04
|
|
|
So I rarely get to talk about Universal horror, but one great understated thing- besides the fact that Mel Brook's Young Frankenstein is deliberately a sequel to Son of Frankenstein though that movie also has some rapey elements that most likely hasn't aged well for many- is that there is, in effect, a ghost sequel that doesn't exist. The Universal line have some pretty strict continuity, even if they work to undermine it later- Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman, for example, had the Monster still capable of speech and fully Ygor in personality but degrading. It was why he was blind, which isn't explicitly explained in that movie, and thus why the famous Frankenstein walk was created. But those scenes WERE filmed, they were just cut for fear of confusing the audience and bogging down the movie. Also apparently Ygor had a split personality thing going on? It was weird. But then you have the movie that exists in universe, but was never actually made. Frankenstein and Bride form a VERY tight duo, with Son and Ghost pairing off fairly well together. But between those is a missing link movie that was never made, a spectre of an idea that was fully fleshed out and rich with its own drama and subplots- that we're only ever TOLD about by Ygor in Son. Ole Frankenstein is brought back into the life of corpse reviving by the criminal murderer Ygor, the Monster is revived once more due to Ygor's insistence, goes on a whole rampage and even tears a child's arm away from their body. We learn the ploys of deception and revenge, and the climatic act of God that strikes down the Monster in the end. And all of it is off screen. It seriously makes me wonder if there were people watching these movies at the time who thought "Wait, did we miss one?"
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
Livestream double feature of The Bride of Frankenstein and Jason Lives is live now. Some short films playing at the moment and there will be a roughly 20 minute break (with more shorts) between films. Come join! https://windowsmoviehouse.com/trixrabbi/
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 01:25
|
|
|
F13 vs Universal is easy; F13 never rises above “guilty pleasure” at best Alien vs NotLD hurts. I haven’t made up my mind yet, but Land of the Dead was a pretty big deal when it came out. Even NPR was talking about how Romero finally made another zombie movie. And I got to see it in theaters! Mind blowing at the time I also want to take a minute to appreciate Charlie. How many other movies have a major character with a disability but they never come off as annoying or demeaning.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
I know that the tree rape scene in The Evil Dead is understandably a big turn off for a lot of people, but it's not meant to be funny or titillating, just horrifying. The first film has a mean streak that the rest do away with. Evil Dead II repeats the same basic scene without the rape, and it works better. I'm all for Friday the 13th > Universal. For better or worse it defined what we think of as a "horror franchise" today, and this thread wouldn't exist without it (or at least it would look very different). It only has two films that I think are bad (Manhattan and Goes to Hell) but even those have some fun parts. I don't know that the surge in popularity of horror in the '80s would've happened without F13. Jason has become a pop culture icon, to the point where people who've never seen a single F13 film still associate hockey masks with slasher films. and in my mind, Burkion posted:nothing is more horror than Friday the 13th.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 14:06
|
|
|
Horror thread doesn't rank the Universal Monster movies every other day, either. Also, here's my hot take for the Universal Monster movies: The Mummy is not good.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 14:10
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:Horror thread doesn't rank the Universal Monster movies every other day, either. Invisible Man Bride of Frankenstein Frankenstein Dracula Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein Creature from the Black Lagoon Werewolf of London Son of Frankenstein Dracula’s Daughter The Wolf Man Ghost of Frankenstein Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man The Mummy’s Ghost The Creature Walks Among Us The Invisible Man Returns The Mummy’s Hand The Mummy House of Dracula Revenge of the Creature The Mummy’s Curse House of Frankenstein She-Wolf of London
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 14:53
|
|
|
Invisible Man above Bride of/Frankenstein???????????
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:12
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Invisible Man above Bride of/Frankenstein??????????? I don't agree myself, but I wouldn't really argue with it either. For me Bride and Invisible Man are the clear #1 and #2 and everything else is a full notch below them.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:13
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Invisible Man above Bride of/Frankenstein??????????? Well he has a pretty bangin theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdxd718WXg
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:15
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Invisible Man above Bride of/Frankenstein??????????? It’s my favorite out of all of them. Claude Rains and the script make for one of the most memorable movie villains of all time. “Even the MOON’S frightened of me! The whole world’s frightened of me, frightened to DEATH!” The only thing that drags it down are the few talky bits where Kemp tries to figure out what drove Griffin crazy. Aside from those, it’s a blast. “He’s invisible, that’s wot’s the matter wi’im!”
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:28
|
|
|
I should give Invisible Man another shot because the last time I watched it (4-5 years ago) I didn't like it at all
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:31
|
|
|
I watched it a couple of months ago and really enjoyed it. It was much smaller in scope and more humorous than I'd assumed, and it's got a ton of charm. I do feel like the climax was a bit lame, though.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:42
|
|
|
Invisible Man feels very ahead of it's time in the way it's structured. It throws you right in the middle of the story and then you gradually get the full backstory as the movie goes on. It's one of my favorite openers to any movie I've ever seen.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:44
|
|
|
Splint Chesthair posted:It’s my favorite out of all of them. Claude Rains and the script make for one of the most memorable movie villains of all time. Rains did a good job of Griffen's being unhinged. You go from lines like that to this scene and it just works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ek5v10EHoI
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 15:49
|
|
|
Shrecknet posted:Ok important question: Neither. Everyone knows that you're not a final anything until you've reached the final.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 16:05
|
|
Shrecknet posted:Ok important question: Fatal Four
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 16:15
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:Horror thread doesn't rank the Universal Monster movies every other day, either. I think Karloff is good in it but its basically a better shot but less interesting Dracula remake and its kind of an outrage that he's only in bandages for like 5 seconds.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 20:56
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I think Karloff is good in it but its basically a better shot but less interesting Dracula remake and its kind of an outrage that he's only in bandages for like 5 seconds. Lon Chaney Jr. wishes he could say that
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
The other Universal Mummy movies with Chaney are far more watchable, particularly The Mummy’s Curse. That one has the mummy menacing the Louisiana bayou somehow.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:10
|
|
|
It's kind of weird how many iterations of the Mummy there are (Universal, Hammer, Brendanverse, Dark Universe) because like every time you get the sense the filmmakers are constantly going "Mummies are creepy... wait... but poo poo, how do you actually make this into a movie?". Not that there aren't good Mummy movies, but even from the get go they struggle with how to go about things. Whereas with Dracula, it's like, "Hey guys, this is what vampires are forever, have fun." Personally, I just want someone to remake As Above/So Below in a pyramid.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:It's kind of weird how many iterations of the Mummy there are (Universal, Hammer, Brendanverse, Dark Universe) because like every time you get the sense the filmmakers are constantly going "Mummies are creepy... wait... but poo poo, how do you actually make this into a movie?". Not that there aren't good Mummy movies, but even from the get go they struggle with how to go about things. Whereas with Dracula, it's like, "Hey guys, this is what vampires are forever, have fun." There is literally a movie called The Pyramid from a few years ago that is this, I think.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
Yeah but its not very good. It does however have one scene that entirely makes it worth watching.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:20
|
|
|
The main thing to know with the Mummy is that it was made during that big ANCIENT EGYPT craze. Honestly it's probably one of the most influential films to not be very good on its own because the ENTIRE Mummy craze that followed was built on its back.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:19 |
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Yeah but its not very good. That's really all I ask of found footage tbh, and The Pyramid definitely delivered a pretty memorable one. Not a great movie overall but I didn't regret watching it.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:23
|
|