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This thread is now a VW Space Vizzion waiting room
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Jul 14, 2020 22:03
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MomJeans420 posted:I'm assuming they need to sell every one they make in the EU (at a loss if needed) so they can sell their high end / high margin cars and SUVs. I wouldn't expect EVs to have an outsized impact on road condition.  
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Jul 14, 2020 22:04
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MomJeans420 posted:I'm assuming they need to sell every one they make in the EU (at a loss if needed) so they can sell their high end / high margin cars and SUVs.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:06
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InitialDave posted:Tbh I doubt the extra few hundred kg over an equivalent ICE car is of any great significance to road wear when there's full size trucks and big SUVs rolling around too. They aren't worse than any of the big vehicles but unfortunately I think in most cases they are replacing lighter vehicles. Road damage impacts are something like a four power function of GVWR, so there's definitely some effect.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:30
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That just mean freight trucks are 99% percent of wear whatever you do. No? Edit: yeah a straight fourth power relationship means a ~2000kg tesla S will do 0.01% of the damage of a 20 tonne truck. VS 0.00006% for a 1000kg econobox. So assuming average traffic is a ridiculous 99% cars and 1% trucks. You're going to see a whopping 0.9% increase in road wear changing those 99 cars from econoboxes to model S weight cars. AlexanderCA fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 22:35
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AlexanderCA posted:That just mean freight trucks are 99% percent of wear whatever you do. No? Heavy trucks are the biggest driver of wear, yes, but increase in weights still matters.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:44
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I think you're underestimating what a 4th power does in practice.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:52
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Fair. Trucks do about 6% of total VMT.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:59
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AlexanderCA posted:I think you're underestimating what a 4th power does in practice. I guess an elephant with a mouse on its back wears the jungle floor more than an elephant without one.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:00
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Now electric semi trucks however.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:10
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AlexanderCA posted:Now electric semi trucks however. Shouldn't make a difference on an individual basis, vehicles are total weight limited to 80,000 lbs in the US. However, less weight for freight means more 80K trucks on the road.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:24
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May as well leave this link here if anyone is interested. https://www.thenissannext.com/ Virtual event is in 6.5 hours, but they've already "leaked" some photos today. I'm tentatively interested in what they're doing with the ariya, but it is nissan. The rumor mill is saying something like 300 miles range, 35k price, but we'll see about that.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:30
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Huh, really? I always assumed it was a similar limit to here, 44 tonnes, so 97,000lbs. Surprised the US is lower, especially by so large a margin.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Shouldn't make a difference on an individual basis, vehicles are total weight limited to 80,000 lbs in the US. However, less weight for freight means more 80K trucks on the road. Most trucks are not constrained by the weight limit but the ones that are will probably stay non electric, or weight laws will allow an exception.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:47
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InitialDave posted:Huh, really? I always assumed it was a similar limit to here, 44 tonnes, so 97,000lbs. I'm surprised too. The usual max weight is 42.5 tonne (92,000lb) or 55 tonne for a B-Double here. Let alone the Outback's Road Trains that regularly get to 150 tonne - but that's spread out over more axles too so it's not as road damaging as it sounds. From what I've read a Tesla truck is about 2 tonne heavier than a regular one. Not sure how much difference that will make to the average load in the USA
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Jul 14, 2020 23:52
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2 tons could be thousands of dollars worth of goods not getting sold. Hopefully we can make it worthwhile for commerce to adopt them anyway.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:03
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I'm looking at wrecked Leafs and Miatas with blown engines, do y'all think the Leaf traction unit is small enough to stuff in the Miata's trunk? E: Actually there's a Leaf minus the battery near me, that might be better, since it'd probably be easier to stuff Chinese 10kwh battery lumps under the hood and whatnot than to try and hack a Leaf pack to fit. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 00:06
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Charles posted:2 tons could be thousands of dollars worth of goods not getting sold. Hopefully we can make it worthwhile for commerce to adopt them anyway. You can do this with legislation, e.g., by mandating them. There are no legal free markets in the US.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:11
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Elviscat posted:I'm looking at wrecked Leafs and Miatas with blown engines, do y'all think the Leaf traction unit is small enough to stuff in the Miata's trunk? Build your own battery pack
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Jul 15, 2020 00:13
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Loucks posted:You can do this with legislation, e.g., by mandating them. There are no legal free markets in the US. That's the most immediate solution I could think of, yeah.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:30
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They have cold plates too, I'm pretty sure I could fabricate a complete thermal management system from Alibaba parts, and control it with an Arduino. The biggest thing that would hold me back from doing an EV build is that I'm not very proficient in electronics, like I know how IGBTs work, but once I get into all the controllers and ahit for them, firmware and software I'm just lost, just hacking existing Leaf hardware and software seems to be pretty well documented though.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:41
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Now that I have the EV, I'm looking at installing the 6-50/14-50 outlet or going with a Tesla charger. I hadn't realized it but I can take a Federal tax deduction of 30% the cost of electric charging installation up to $1000 on Form 8911 in addition to a NJ rebate of $500. If I can get a Tesla wall charger ($500) installed for $500 for a total of $1000 then I'll get $800 which will make my net cost $200. For $1500 that would be a net cost of $550. (Let's set aside the tax effect of the rebate itself for now.)
Yuns fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 01:04
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Well 14-50 outlet is most future proof. But assuming they run the appropriate sized wire, a hardwired wall charger can always be replaced with a 14-50 outlet easy enough.
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Jul 15, 2020 01:37
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I took a look to see what it would cost and how much work would need to be done to install a full on DC fast charger (even a small commercial style set up) in a private home and it's pretty daunting. But it did convince me that in the future if I get a house built I'll want it to be able to easily support future charging needs.
Yuns fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 01:51
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Can you get residential service higher than 200amp? What did you find out?
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Jul 15, 2020 01:57
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Charles posted:Can you get residential service higher than 200amp? What did you find out?
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Jul 15, 2020 02:10
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I would have guessed more, but 20k isn't actually that big of a cost once you're talking home construction....like at $250/sqft which i hear is basically the minimum you can get away with, a 2k sqft house would be 500k to build. What's another 20k at that point 
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Jul 15, 2020 02:14
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gwrtheyrn posted:I would have guessed more, but 20k isn't actually that big of a cost once you're talking home construction....like at $250/sqft which i hear is basically the minimum you can get away with, a 2k sqft house would be 500k to build. What's another 20k at that point I think Yuns means $20k just for the in-home electrical and charger. Would not include utility costs which very much depend on your individual situation, and not to mention whether your local planning/zoning will permit it. But I'm not gonna say it's impossible, especially when you get into large luxury homes that may actually get 120/208v 3-phase. It's unlikely to be feasible for most situations outside of that. Also, requiring that big of a service may bump your kwh rate into some kind of large commercial rate and those are usually really uneconomical for large occasional switched loads.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:37
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angryrobots posted:I think Yuns means $20k just for the in-home electrical and charger. Would not include utility costs which very much depend on your individual situation, and not to mention whether your local planning/zoning will permit it.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:40
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Yuns posted:Yes I literally meant just the charger itself and installation. Not the ancillary costs of all the extra work that would be required to make your house able to deal with those electrical needs. Yeah that makes a lot more sense. I was going to guess that just getting the cables run to your house would easily be at least 20k, and probably a lot more, before even talking about anything inside your house.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:42
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gwrtheyrn posted:I would have guessed more, but 20k isn't actually that big of a cost once you're talking home construction....like at $250/sqft which i hear is basically the minimum you can get away with, a 2k sqft house would be 500k to build. What's another 20k at that point
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Jul 15, 2020 02:51
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Nessus posted:Has grover become a home charger installer yet? With Grover Electrical Services, you can have as many 14-50 outlets on one 50 amp circuit as you'd like!
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Jul 15, 2020 02:55
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I'm sure grover built my current homes electrical system. I have 325 amps of breakers in a 200 amp system which should be fine but I'm triggering the breakers all the time.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:58
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Can we summon a lineman into this thread? Do residential runs even have three phase at the junction boxes? We added a 100 amp subpanel to my 200amp breaker boz for a 40amp and 60amp breaker so the garage has two chargers.
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Jul 15, 2020 02:59
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I sent an e-mail to my father who by way of background was an electric power transmission and distribution expert his entire career mostly focusing on power transformer design. So Imma wait for his email reply to come back in a few days calling me a dummy for thinking I can install DC fast charging at home.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:17
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Former licensed electrician. *FOR THE US ONLY* You do not have three-phase "at the box" you have 240V single phase (which is center-grounded to give you 120V services) If you look outside your window, and the power poles have three big wires all the way at the top, then you are in an area fed by three phase power, at the Utility side, your house is fed via transformer from one of these phases (look at the bucket on the pole [if you're overhead, not buried] and you'll see 1 little wire dropping from one of the three to the transformer). If you live in an area with 3-phase available, you might be able to convince your local utility and zoning authority to hang a threesome of transformers and give you three phase delta or wye to your house, for only tens of thousands of dollars. If there's only one wire up on insulators on the pole, your price for the service (after your lawyers bully the town council onto letting you have 3 phase) will be in the hundreds of thousands or millions. As always with the US, this may vary widly with location, I don't think NERC has anything to say about it, so I don't think it's federally prohibited. I really want a three phase service to my house btw, I've often toyed with the idea of firing off a few letters to my utility and seeing if they'll play ball. It's also an absolutely ridiculous thing to do, when would you ever need DCQC at home?
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Jul 15, 2020 03:32
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Oh yeah, if you live in the greater Seattle area and want someone to look at your service to see if it supports an EVSE, or help you install a 14-50 or 6-50 for an EVSE, PM me or post your email in this thread, I have a lot of time off and love getting more people into EVs.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:40
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I could have used you last year, hah.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:52
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DC fast charging at home would be an extremely niche thing. Most cars have onboard charging capable (with sufficient power input) of charging 0-100% in less than 8 hours, which is all you need. The only exception I could see would be stopping at home for a lunch break while being a taxi driver, in which case you can't afford home DCFC. A second car to swap to in the middle of your workday would be cheaper and more practical than home DCFC once you take all the costs into consideration.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:54
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Shamino posted:Can we summon a lineman into this thread? Do residential runs even have three phase at the junction boxes? I'm gonna assume you're actually talking about underground power in a typical subdivision and add to what Elviscat said. There *may* be 3 phase power in some of the junction boxes, but it's all high voltage. Ignoring the unlikelihood of having a 3 phase junction accessible to your property, it would also require a 3 phase padmount transformer for just your residence. Those are 120/208 wye only, so on top of a new panel you'll need all new appliances because they're all 240v and won't work. In the EU, some countries run 3 phase to everything but you're not gonna DC fast charge on a typical residential service there either.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:55
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