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Yes, you are essentially rephrasing the same the same thing I said. Allowing ample rehydration time is a choice to incentivize and protect the interests of fighters who would choose to do dumb and dangerous things otherwise. I still don't find it remotely compelling as an argument. I would solve the problem by going the other direction from what you're suggesting. Give them even less time to rehydrate, like essentially zero. Ideally, you leave the locker room, you get on a scale, then you go fight. You either fight at close to your natural healthy weight, or at least a sustainable and reasonable weight, or you do not fight. If they did multiple weigh-ins and spot checks in the couple of weeks before the fight then pretty much everyone would have to fight in a healthy condition to be competitive.
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May 8, 2021 19:31
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:Is the incentive of having a theoretical strength and size advantage enough to outweigh the reality of shambling into the cage already gassed out before the fight even starts? Hope you manage to get a KO in the 30 seconds you have before you're ready to completely collapse against an opponent at their physical peak who's ready to go a full 3-5 rounds. IIRC the fighters who missed weight over the past couple of years have usually won their fights. I can’t point to a source, but I remember that it became a thing people tracked when missing weight started to become more common, relatively.
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May 8, 2021 19:33
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Yeah, that's my point. They wouldn't have a competitive advantage anymore if they could only get that size advantage by entering the cage barely able to stand up. Nobody would do it anymore because they would know their performance would be impaired.
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May 8, 2021 19:36
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:Yeah, that's my point. They wouldn't have a competitive advantage anymore if they could only get that size advantage by entering the cage barely able to stand up. Nobody would do it anymore because they would know their performance would be impaired. Ah, I see. You believe they won’t have the same results with same day weigh ins.
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May 8, 2021 19:40
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Yeah exactly. I mean, do you think Ryan Benoit would have tried that stupid bullshit if he had to go pretty much straight to the cage after that? No way. But if he managed to keep his composure just enough to keep the fight from being cancelled then he would have been given a whole day to recover and get his poo poo together. That stuff happens all the time, even when fighters do miss weight. And fighters who pull those stunts often do get an unfair advantage from trying it too. I see no good reason to support and incentivize that behavior.
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May 8, 2021 19:50
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:I mean, do you think Ryan Benoit would have tried that stupid bullshit if he had to go pretty much straight to the cage after that? No way. Would he have tried to do that stupid bullshit if he knew it would end up with his fight being cancelled? You can say the fighters aren't going to risk an awful weight cut if they have to fight dehydrated, but the weight cut is a week-long process and they don't actually know how well it's going to go, but they all obviously think that it's going to go well. Ryan Benoit did not think a week ago when he started cutting that he'd almost die, what makes you think he wouldn't have tried to do the cut if the weigh-in was today?
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May 8, 2021 20:00
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Currently all fighters have to do is not be so obviously hosed up or so overweight that the fight gets cancelled. It makes little to no difference if it's a good cut or a bad cut. They've got a full day to recover and rehydrate. That plays right into the hands of the worst and dumbest offenders and it happens all the time. I'd rather protect the interests of everyone else. But to answer your question, I think he wouldn't have done the cut if it was today because, even if a cut is "good" comparatively speaking, no one who literally just got done cutting 20-30 pounds is going to be in shape to go 3-5 hard rounds with a completely fresh opponent. He would lose and there's no reason to do this if it doesn't give you an advantage or at least keep you on a level playing field. This is especially the case if the fighters are weighed repeatedly and routinely to make sure they stay at a reasonable and healthy weight throughout the run-up to the fight. Even someone having a "good" cut isn't going to sustain that weight for days or weeks on end. The whole thing is about hitting that weight for one brief moment and then quickly ballooning back up.
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May 8, 2021 20:20
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:Currently all fighters have to do is not be so obviously hosed up or so overweight that the fight gets cancelled. It makes little to no difference if it's a good cut or a bad cut. I don't understand -- a bad cut is definitionally one that affects their weighin (like functionally stepping onto the scales without getting pulled by the commission or making weight). So a bad cut.... does make a difference?
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May 8, 2021 20:30
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Hill v Ribas fight pulled, poor Angela! Legit maybe the only fight on the card I was interested in.
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May 8, 2021 20:37
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kimbo305 posted:I don't understand -- a bad cut is definitionally one that affects their weighin (like functionally stepping onto the scales without getting pulled by the commission or making weight). These aren't terms that have concrete definitions, so my understanding may just be different from yours. I've seen fighters say they had a bad cut and they still end up fighting (and often winning). I mean "bad" in the sense that the cut was very difficult, the weight didn't want to come off, there was a great deal of physical suffering involved, etc. I would more likely call what you're describing a failed cut. I don't want to get too caught up in wrangling over terminology since it doesn't change the thrust of anyone's arguments here, but hopefully that makes things clearer. It was only important inasmuch as I was just trying to say that a supposed "good" cut of 20-30 pounds still isn't a walk in the park and will take a physical toll on someone that's enough to compromise performance. EDIT - ^^^ God drat it! Poor Angie.
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May 8, 2021 20:38
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I think I'm way more for cageside weigh ins than I am for same-day (as in, 9 am local time the way current ones are), that's probably what would actually get people to not gently caress around. But if it won't, it won't be pretty.
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May 8, 2021 20:42
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Brut posted:I think I'm way more for cageside weigh ins than I am for same-day (as in, 9 am local time the way current ones are), that's probably what would actually get people to not gently caress around. But if it won't, it won't be pretty. And the best way to make sure people don't gently caress around is a sports commission that feels willing to pull people who look in any way messed up or not able to fight. But there is too much money involved in everything to trust they will do that. Even if they think they're being kind to protect a fighters pay day or something.
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May 8, 2021 21:01
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Brut posted:I think I'm way more for cageside weigh ins than I am for same-day (as in, 9 am local time the way current ones are), that's probably what would actually get people to not gently caress around. But if it won't, it won't be pretty. I'm also for it - I think there would be an adjustment period but eventually people would be fighting much closer to their real weights and the sport would be healthier for it
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May 8, 2021 21:02
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Ribas was pulled for a positive COVID-19 test.
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May 8, 2021 21:12
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Or weigh them like 3 days before, the day before and then cage side? some combination that means they can't just cut to the weight, but people can get a heads up if someone's missing weight
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May 8, 2021 21:25
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But I thought COVID was fake and was nothing to worry about 
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May 8, 2021 21:38
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Man, it's such a bummer that the hill fight is off.
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May 8, 2021 21:43
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Untrustable posted:Hey everyone thanks for the insight. My brain short-circuited and I was like, "I know weight cutting can cause kidney failure" without even thinking about the lack of water and such. I appreciate that I can drop a hella dumb question and still get genuine answers. Thanks. You are a cool guy/poster. Don't have to apologize for being human. Keep posting, keep being you, keep being cool.
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May 8, 2021 21:56
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Thats what, 4 fights we've lost off this card so far?
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May 8, 2021 22:19
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artism posted:They’re not going to add new weight classes because of the belief that it’ll dilute the product. Regardless of whether this is true, it would be a further barrier to entry for casual fans. The belief that it'll dilute the product at the lower weight classes particularly adding a 165 class is somewhat ridiculous. Right now there's at least 3 or 4 guys who are known as lightweights but struggle with the cut and you could argue it's impacted their careers negatively but are simply too small for the 170 class. RDA, Nate Diaz, Kevin Lee are the first off my head. Khabib missed weight 3 or 4 times throughout his career. Porier has come out in favour of it too. There are for sure fighters who cut too much to make 155 or simply can't compete physically at 170 who would perform better in a 165 class. There's plenty of fighters who moved up weight classes and looked a lot better because of it. Jan was a middling middleweight before he went up to LHW, Bobby knuckles was decisioning cans and getting knocked out at 170 before going up to 85. They have 85 something lightweights on the roster and 75 welterweights, there's only about 45-50 middle weights. You could quite easily populate another division in the 165 range and have it be plenty competitive. ilmucche posted:Or weigh them like 3 days before, the day before and then cage side? some combination that means they can't just cut to the weight, but people can get a heads up if someone's missing weight The way one fc works in policy is that fighters can only cut a certain amount of weight over a certain period IIRC they weigh in something like 3 times before their final weigh in to check their progress. This method might be improved on the current system if not a perfect solution.
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May 8, 2021 22:37
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BlindSite posted:The belief that it'll dilute the product at the lower weight classes particularly adding a 165 class is somewhat ridiculous. Right now there's at least 3 or 4 guys who are known as lightweights but struggle with the cut and you could argue it's impacted their careers negatively but are simply too small for the 170 class. RDA, Nate Diaz, Kevin Lee are the first off my head. Khabib missed weight 3 or 4 times throughout his career. Porier has come out in favour of it too. There are for sure fighters who cut too much to make 155 or simply can't compete physically at 170 who would perform better in a 165 class. There's plenty of fighters who moved up weight classes and looked a lot better because of it. Jan was a middling middleweight before he went up to LHW, Bobby knuckles was decisioning cans and getting knocked out at 170 before going up to 85. John Wayne Parr posted that he failed over 10 hydration tests and missed weight for his recent bout against Nieky Holzken and ONE still let the fight go on, lol
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May 8, 2021 22:48
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BlindSite posted:The belief that it'll dilute the product at the lower weight classes particularly adding a 165 class is somewhat ridiculous. Right now there's at least 3 or 4 guys who are known as lightweights but struggle with the cut and you could argue it's impacted their careers negatively but are simply too small for the 170 class. RDA, Nate Diaz, Kevin Lee are the first off my head. Khabib missed weight 3 or 4 times throughout his career. Porier has come out in favour of it too. There are for sure fighters who cut too much to make 155 or simply can't compete physically at 170 who would perform better in a 165 class. There's plenty of fighters who moved up weight classes and looked a lot better because of it. Jan was a middling middleweight before he went up to LHW, Bobby knuckles was decisioning cans and getting knocked out at 170 before going up to 85. I've often thought it would be best to have weight classes every 10 lbs from 130 - 200, and then heavyweight to 265 or 270 or what have you. 130 would get the flyweights and the smaller bantams (TJ, Cejudo, Figs etc), 140 would get the big bantams/small feathers (Cruz, Aldo, Aljo, Yan, TKZ etc), 150 would get the big feathers and small lights (Max, Volk, Zabit, Barboza, Oliveira), 160 gets big lights/small welters (Khabib, Conor, Hooker, Masvidal, Diaz, Pettis) and so on and so forth. I don't know how you would practically transition from what we have to that, but it would definitely freshen everything up and spread out some of the talent between feather-middle as well as making the smallest weight class a bit more competitive by fusing it to half of the bantams.
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May 8, 2021 22:52
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LobsterMobster posted:John Wayne Parr posted that he failed over 10 hydration tests and missed weight for his recent bout against Nieky Holzken and ONE still let the fight go on, lol Yeah, I was thinking of exactly that situation which is why I said "in policy" and not "in practice"  Lucasar posted:I've often thought it would be best to have weight classes every 10 lbs from 130 - 200, and then heavyweight to 265 or 270 or what have you. Yeah I would agree with that too, you might get a bit light on from 180 to 200 but I think with the vast majority of MMA athletes falling in that 130-175 range it would make sense to expand there first.
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May 8, 2021 22:59
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No game day thread? (Not It)
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May 8, 2021 23:45
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ccubed posted:No game day thread? (Not It) Really loving cool sub on the first prelim match of this cursed card
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May 8, 2021 23:46
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The iron turtle looks like he has an awful staph infection on his chest lol
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May 9, 2021 00:05
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Pretty wild Park put a drat cigar out on his pec to psych himself up for this bout
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May 9, 2021 00:05
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Diego’s coach calling out Dana for sleeping with fighters. Like, maybe it’s true but that nut job is easy to dismiss, so Dana probably doesn’t need to say anything at all about it.
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May 9, 2021 00:05
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Dirk Digglet posted:Pretty wild Park put a drat cigar out on his pec to psych himself up for this bout Is that what that is? I looks like an open wound.
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May 9, 2021 00:06
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Tangy Zizzle posted:Hill v Ribas fight pulled, poor Angela! Legit maybe the only fight on the card I was interested in. Goddammit, the universe is meant to do nice things for Angela Hill 
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May 9, 2021 00:16
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el B posted:Is that what that is? I looks like an open wound. It's almost certainly a gnarly staph infection.
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May 9, 2021 00:23
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Ratios and Tendency posted:It's almost certainly a gnarly staph infection. Good thing they're bleeding over each other and grinding their flesh together!
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May 9, 2021 00:26
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Oh it's a snake bite.
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May 9, 2021 00:28
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I thought it was a bullet hole tattoo on Park a few times.
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May 9, 2021 00:30
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el B posted:Oh it's a snake bite. Venum ARG loving wild.
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May 9, 2021 00:30
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Crazy fight!
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May 9, 2021 00:59
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Goodn fight, dreadful judging
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May 9, 2021 00:59
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What a loving round holy moly
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May 9, 2021 01:53
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Comeback of the year
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May 9, 2021 01:59
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He broke him, you don't say
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May 9, 2021 01:59
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