|
Mad Wack posted:as the last vestiges of zodiark shimmer and disappear, the music swells and our hero looks out dramatically to see a dear friend beckoning over the next horizon, we stride off purposefully as the camera tilts slowly up to the stars, the sky explodes I would not put this past them
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:03 |
|
|
I'm sort of okay with hildibrand being over--it felt a bit like they were running out of ideas--but he better have a cameo on the moon
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I'm sort of okay with hildibrand being over--it felt a bit like they were running out of ideas--but he better have a cameo on the moon It is kind of a shame we didn't get the First's version of Hildibrand, but yeah, it did run its course. They need to come up with some new comedy sidequest concepts for 6.x!
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
They explicitly stated there'd be more Hildibrand in Endwalker.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
they've implicitly stated that "there were many voices and feedback on how they want to see the continuation of his adventures, therefore we are preparing for his return and do our best to answer the expectations of our players"
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
Mad Wack posted:as the last vestiges of zodiark shimmer and disappear, the music swells and our hero looks out dramatically to see a dear friend beckoning over the next horizon, we stride off purposefully as the camera tilts slowly up to the stars, the sky explodes gently caress yes. Full on Hildy expac
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
They're refreshed after taking a break in Shadowbringers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
Vitamean posted:they've implicitly stated that "there were many voices and feedback on how they want to see the continuation of his adventures, therefore we are preparing for his return and do our best to answer the expectations of our players" I'm looking forward to it
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 20:04
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:
also the fact that the creatures who destroyed Amaurot are all over the Endwalker trailer
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 20:08
|
|
|
Make Hildibrand a Trust ally.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 20:34
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:Make Hildibrand a Trust ally. only if we get Nashu too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 20:56
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Damnit, lady, Elidibus manifesting physically outside of Zodiark was a problem both in general and for him specifically, and you know that. Don't make the same mistake, not even for dramatic flair! My understanding is that there isn't really a Hydaelyn primal left by this point. She's expended all of her power over the ages trying to mitigate the damage from the Ascians. The kicker was when she shielded the WoL from Ultima, expending so much energy that she couldn't even talk anymore. She had to get a volunteer to act as her speaker. And with what sliver of power she had left, she only just barely managed to save maybe 10% of Norvrandt from the flood. She's totally out of juice. It seems that Primal summonings in FFXIV work similar to how the Philosopher's Stone from FMA works: souls are used as juice. Once all of the other souls are gone and only the soul of the summoner remains, well... at that point, what difference is there between the primal and the person? Now that Hydaelyn has expended all of the aether of everyone else who sacrificed themselves to summon Hydaelyn, by this point it could be pretty reasonable to assume that Venat is pretty much the only soul left. So it's not like she can "leave" herself. She is herself. She's tagging along because "why not?". thetoughestbean posted:I finally finished every Custom Delivery questline. I really appreciate that most of them are stuff like “feed the orphans”, “help introduce this isolated village to the rest of the world”, or “help solve classism by helping a hospital” and then there’s Kai-Shirr’s, which is “save the local strip joint” I thought the only real good one was the one with Au Ra bartender and the one with the dragon you teach to use tools. The rest were boring or too preachy. ImpAtom posted:I assume the obvious answer is "Was not down for sacrificing most of their civilization, wanted another answer." Remember, Azem didn't oppose the summoning of Zodiark to stop the Final Days and save Amaurot. He didn't oppose Amaurotines sacrificing themselves to Zodiark for the land to be restored. He opposed the other 13 wanting to cultivate the "new life" on the planet to be used as sacrifices so that Zodiark could return the souls of the Amaurotines who were sacrificed to him. Orcs and Ostriches posted:I don't think it's said if Azem refused Venat's group directly Well let's look at what the game says: Distressed Ancient One posted:I had hoped that the defector, at least, would side with us, but I regret to report our overtures have gone unanswered. It sounds like they weren't able to contact Azem at all. Either Azem was off somewhere, or he was imprisoned or incapacitated. Cythereal posted:This is my assumption. Venat explained her plan to Azem, Azem told them to gently caress off with that mass sacrifice poo poo and went off on her own to find answers. This is uncharacteristic behavior of the WoL. The WoL only ever gave the silent treatment to insane evil people like ARR Gaius and Zenos. If the WoL was given a serious proposal from people trying to genuinely fix the world they wouldn't rebuff it with the silent treatment; they would actually talk. Which implies that Azem wasn't able to reply. Captain Oblivious posted:Zodiark already solved the Sound (as far as the unsundered Ascians know or care) when he rewrote reality so, the easy answer is "they were wrong and we don't find out until later". We have too little information. We know that the Sound emanated from the heart of the star, and it stopped when Zodiark became the new heart of the star. The current heart of the star is Hydaelyn. If Hydaelyn dies, then the Sound could begin emanating from the heart of the star again. The Sound will almost certainly be dealt with during the climax of 6.0. As for the 6.X patches, I'm hoping that they do the GW2 thing of having each patch introduce a brand new zone, so that way we can have the new saga kick off with an entirely brand new cast and continent/setting and we won't have to ever see Eorzea or the Scions or the city state leaders again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 20:59
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I'm sort of okay with hildibrand being over--it felt a bit like they were running out of ideas--but he better have a cameo on the moon
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
Moofia Boss Val posted:This is uncharacteristic behavior of the WoL. The WoL only ever gave the silent treatment to insane evil people like ARR Gaius and Zenos. If the WoL was given a serious proposal from people trying to genuinely fix the world they wouldn't rebuff it with the silent treatment; they would actually talk. Which implies that Azem wasn't able to reply. "I know, let's do exactly the same thing we just did but the new god will have the purpose of stopping the old god!" is insane. It worked, but I don't think the way that Hydaelen was created is any more or less moral than summoning Zodiark was. Mass human sacrifice to summon a god to fix your problem.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:11
|
|
|
Moofia Boss Val posted:
weird
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:12
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:"I know, let's do exactly the same thing we just did but the new god will have the purpose of stopping the old god!" is insane. It worked, but I don't think the way that Hydaelen was created is any more or less moral than summoning Zodiark was. Mass human sacrifice to summon a god to fix your problem. I think it's more moral to sacrifice yourself to solve the problem than it is to let the rest of your society kill off an entirely new species for selfish reasons Moofia Boss Val posted:As for the 6.X patches, I'm hoping that they do the GW2 thing of having each patch introduce a brand new zone, so that way we can have the new saga kick off with an entirely brand new cast and continent/setting and we won't have to ever see Eorzea or the Scions or the city state leaders again. This isn't going to happen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:"I know, let's do exactly the same thing we just did but the new god will have the purpose of stopping the old god!" is insane. It worked, but I don't think the way that Hydaelen was created is any more or less moral than summoning Zodiark was. Mass human sacrifice to summon a god to fix your problem. I'm not sure why you think anyone had a problem with self sacrifice. Azem places his life on the line daily. His friends sacrificed themselves to save the world. No one complained about that. The issue was the Ascians were going to sacrifice unwilling people in order to bring back their own. That is what caused Azem to leave and what caused Venat and friends to create Hydaelyn.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
Moofia Boss Val posted:I'm not sure why you think anyone had a problem with self sacrifice. Azem places his life on the line daily. His friends sacrificed themselves to save the world. No one complained about that. ...Did you miss the entire expansion that just finished and how it screamed SACRIFICING YOUR OWN LIFE 'FOR THE GREATER GOOD' ISN'T BRAVE OR HEROIC YOU DIPSHITS!
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:17
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:...Did you miss the entire expansion that just finished and how it screamed SACRIFICING YOUR OWN LIFE 'FOR THE GREATER GOOD' ISN'T BRAVE OR HEROIC YOU DIPSHITS! Consistency isn't one of Ishikawa's strengths. This is the same expansion where the big bad is demonized for trying to sacrifice the present civilization in order to resurrect a long gone civilization that he loved and deemed to be better than the present civilization. And the Crystal Exarch was trying to do the exact same thing, but wasn't demonized for it (instead the narrative hails him as a hero).
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:19
|
|
|
Moofia Boss Val posted:Consistency isn't one of Ishikawa's strengths. This is the same expansion where the big bad is demonized for trying to sacrifice the present civilization in order to resurrect a long gone civilization that he loved and deemed to be better than the present civilization. And the Crystal Exarch was trying to do the exact same thing, but wasn't demonized for it (instead the narrative hails him as a hero). You know, minus all the Scions going "That was your plan?! You goddamn moron! We're doing this the right way, not with some lovely 'self-sacrifice for the greater good!'"
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
Oh wait, this was the monarchist troll. Carry on, Cleretic 2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:22
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:...Did you miss the entire expansion that just finished and how it screamed SACRIFICING YOUR OWN LIFE 'FOR THE GREATER GOOD' ISN'T BRAVE OR HEROIC YOU DIPSHITS! What game are you playing? I never got that message from any part of Shadowbringers. Hell, Emet-Selch's entire sticking point about how the new races would never be as selfless as the Ancients as to give up their lives to save the world is never called out as a hosed-up view point specially because it's bad to sacrifice. The Scion's response is basically "You don't know that and even if we wouldn't that's still not a reason for us to be destroyed" Cythereal posted:You know, minus all the Scions going "That was your plan?! You goddamn moron! We're doing this the right way, not with some lovely 'self-sacrifice for the greater good!'" Except the Exarch does end up heroically sacrificing himself in the end anyway, soooo... Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:22
|
|
|
Emet Selch was demonized for committing multiple acts of omnicide.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:24
|
|
|
Moofia Boss Val is trying to claim moral equivalency between the Exarch coming back from the future and erasing said future by changing the past, ignoring that A) We don't even know that's how that works and B) The future that he came back of consisted of a smattering of survivors who devoted their lives to the cause of sending the Exarch back to do exactly that. This is because Moofia's thing is edgy hot takes. It is true however that at no point does the narrative frame the actions of Venat and her cohort as a bad thing. Their self sacrifice is engaged with neutrally at worst.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Moofia Boss Val is trying to claim moral equivalency between the Exarch coming back from the future and erasing said future by changing the past, ignoring that We actually know that's not how it works thanks to that Tales From The Shadows story set after they send G'raha off in the tower
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:We actually know that's not how it works thanks to that Tales From The Shadows story set after they send G'raha off in the tower You could make an argument that they couldn't possibly know that for sure despite the claims of that particular entry, as the project was wildly unbroken ground, but yes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:You could make an argument that they couldn't possibly know that for sure despite the claims of that particular entry, as the project was wildly unbroken ground, but yes. Oh yeah they were totally ready to cease to exist if it meant saving the world and were pleasantly surprised when they didn't, if not confused on what to do next. Which again does not lead me to believe that "heroic sacrifice is inherently bad" is a point of Shadowbringers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:What game are you playing? I never got that message from any part of Shadowbringers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
No disagreement there. I think if you're expecting the narrative of Endwalker to treat the creation of Hydaelyn as a hosed up immoral thing to do that Azem disapproved of sternly, as Cythereal seems to, you are PROBABLY going to come away disappointed. There's simply no textual evidence for that at the moment. Hydaelyn was created by consenting wizards who gave their lives to prevent a cycle of genocides by a self proclaimed superior race. Right now the narrative seems fairly approving of that. Could change! But no sign of it so far.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
The story calls G'raha an idiot for having heroic self-sacrifice as his long planned endgoal he's striving for, but it doesn't say all who have given their lives for others were dipshits.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
It'd be also a pretty hypocritical stance for a game where 90% of named NPC deaths are sacrificing themselves to save someone else Just, y'know. Don't make it your Plan A.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
Yeah, between Yugiri in SB and G'raha, it's more don't jump to sacrifice yourself, dummy
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:No disagreement there. I think if you're expecting the narrative of Endwalker to treat the creation of Hydaelyn as a hosed up immoral thing to do that Azem disapproved of sternly, as Cythereal seems to, you are PROBABLY going to come away disappointed. I wonder if the people who were split into fourteen and may or may not have had their consciousnesses destroyed or radically altered consented to that too
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:What game are you playing? I never got that message from any part of Shadowbringers. What? No he doesn't, he gets crystallised because Elidibus overdraws from the power of the Crystal Tower to spam summons and G'raha is the one who suffers for it because Elidibus is using the blood from the vessel to do the summoning.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 21:55
|
|
|
multijoe posted:I wonder if the people who were split into fourteen and may or may not have had their consciousnesses destroyed or radically altered consented to that too Probably not, mostly because that wasn't....actually the plan? It was an unforseen consequence.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:No disagreement there. I think if you're expecting the narrative of Endwalker to treat the creation of Hydaelyn as a hosed up immoral thing to do that Azem disapproved of sternly, as Cythereal seems to, you are PROBABLY going to come away disappointed. The thing about Hydaelyn is that Her reason for being is "keep Zodiark in a headlock". Both Zodiark and Hydaelyn were manifested by people with noble intentions, but neither of them have a reason to exist any more; they're both just ancient constructs that the world would be better off without, and whose continued existence puts everyone at risk.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 22:06
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:Probably not, mostly because that wasn't....actually the plan? It was an unforseen consequence. The meeting with Venat implies otherwise, what with the talk about how their peers wouldn't approve of what they're doing but that it's the only way to resolve the situation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 22:09
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:Probably not, mostly because that wasn't....actually the plan? It was an unforseen consequence. Maybe that was something they also should have considered then when they created their reality-warping crystal god. What is it actually going to once it's here?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 22:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:03 |
|
|
multijoe posted:Maybe that was something they also should have considered then when they created their reality-warping crystal god. What is it actually going to once it's here?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 22:11
|
|