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Husband +accept: can job offer be rescinded over a misunderstanding? quote:My husband has been offered a new contract via email. His response was:
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Jun 11, 2021 16:46
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Barudak posted:Boy George reboot looking sad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6ZaWS5x14
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Jun 11, 2021 16:48
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Solenna posted:I'll be honest, I had no idea wedding invites had formal rules about the number of invites implied by the wording. I would also assume that immediate family including nieces and nephews would be invited unless specifically excluded. Especially with them being teenagers and not kids who need to be watched. there's no formal rules about any of this poo poo, just a neverending cold war between all the relatives who assume that an invite for them is also naturally an unspoken invite for their best friend's second cousin; the person being expected to pay to feed an ever-expanding number of people they may or may not have any actual relationship with; and the family members who are utterly uninvolved in any of this but will involve themselves if you ever say no to anyone any extra individual/kids/whatever people wanna bring may sound reasonable in isolation, until you realize literally everyone's gonna do that and stir up exactly as much poo poo if they're where you draw the line as if you did it 50 seats ago Peaceful Anarchy posted:On the one hand she is demonstrably bad at explaining things, so I theoretically get his frustration. On the other hand "I'm not setting an alarm because you already set several and I'll use those" is actually the uberlogical thing to do, so he's either not as logical as he thinks or is just using it as cover to manipulate her. literally none of these guys is ever even normal amounts of logical, and none of these scenarios require any explanation, let alone a good one. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 17:08
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Kuiperdolin posted:Husband +accept: What the hell lol. He’s just going to have to find another engineering position.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:23
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Clarity in communication seems important for an engineer Or any job really But engineers seem like they could do a lot of collateral damage on account of miscommunication
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Jun 11, 2021 17:39
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on the other hand how many engineers have you known who were actually any good at conveying anything to another human
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Jun 11, 2021 17:43
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haven't known many engineers but I feel like they usually would be able to say "yes" or "no" without warping the meaning in purpled prose
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Jun 11, 2021 17:48
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"With all honesty" has never in the history of English communication preceded a statement the recipient would be excited about
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Jun 11, 2021 17:48
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theflyingexecutive posted:"With all honesty" has never in the history of English communication preceded a statement the recipient would be excited about "No offense but..."
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Jun 11, 2021 17:49
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theflyingexecutive posted:"With all honesty" has never in the history of English communication preceded a statement the recipient would be excited about If they were falling all over themselves to hire the guy, they would have shrugged it off as "well, guess we misunderstood, but we'd still love you"...the fact they haven't responded seems kind of telling.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:51
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"I have no choice but to accept" is also a really dumb way that could be read, which doesn't inspire confidence
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Jun 11, 2021 17:59
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:on the other hand how many engineers have you known who were actually any good at conveying anything to another human None. Engineers are also the worst clients in all industries because they will show up to meetings with a printed out spreadsheet, pointing at it and shouting, "Do you see!? Do you see!?" like the psycho from Red Dragon.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:00
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Mr. Lobe posted:haven't known many engineers but I feel like they usually would be able to say "yes" or "no" without warping the meaning in purpled prose It's just the opposite, especially for questions of the form "can we do this thing on the project", because they fixate on the unspoken "with a reasonable amount of work" and try to figure out what that amount of work is and whether it meets a standard of reasonability. Out loud, in front of you.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:01
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haveblue posted:It's just the opposite, especially for questions of the form "can we do this thing on the project", because they fixate on the unspoken "with a reasonable amount of work" and try to figure out what that amount of work is and whether it meets a standard of reasonability. Out loud, in front of you. That’s probably because they’ve been burned by bad PMs over promising without taking anything like that into consideration.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:22
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Invisible Clergy posted:r/relationships: My fiancé and I have a 17 year age gap I’m 59. My wife is 33. We have 2-year-old twins. I pay for my mother-in-law’s rent. The time has come for me to cut the cord
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Jun 11, 2021 18:27
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Tetramin posted:That’s probably because they’ve been burned by bad PMs over promising without taking anything like that into consideration. It's a little bit of both. I'm not an engineer, but I do some engineering type job duties where I work. The head engineer used to handle a bunch of other things, but people hated going to him because he never gives a straight answer to anything. He will try to lead people to figuring out the answer themselves, without really understanding or caring that most people don't want that. Him and I get along pretty well and I've absorbed some of his duties (day to day IT and phone systems, though we do still double team stuff a lot). One of the main things I've become is a loving interpreter for the guy. People come to me now with questions for him, and either I answer them if I can, or I boil them down to their essence to get his answer, and then re-interpret his answer for the person that was initially asking. His emails are full of typos, missing words, etc. He also sometimes writes manifestos when a 2 sentence answer would suffice. Funny enough, I was working via email with an engineer from another controls company that we deal with, and he emails the exact same way. Combo fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 18:34
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It's also because engineers are pretty harshly judged when they're wrong or at least they're expected to be the ones to provide consistently correct answers. Truth is, most engineers usually don't have an exact path or answer to a given problem, just educated guesses and they can often be wrong. Since giving a definitive answer that can be wrong is tantamount to being a lovely engineer, they'll opt to give a vague wriggly answer that you can't hold them to.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:46
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As someone is nearly 30 a large age gap really isn’t a big deal. Unless it’s something really creepy like double their age or something.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:46
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Bibliotechno Music posted:My GF of 4 years (28f) me (33m) keeps cheating on me I can’t leave her will she ever change?
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Jun 11, 2021 18:46
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Mr. Lobe posted:Clarity in communication seems important for an engineer lmao haveblue posted:It's just the opposite, especially for questions of the form "can we do this thing on the project", because they fixate on the unspoken "with a reasonable amount of work" and try to figure out what that amount of work is and whether it meets a standard of reasonability. Out loud, in front of you. Engineering KPIs tend to be things like "budget" and "schedule" and "hours logged to <project>." We get yelled at when we exceed any one of those, and you're causing us grief by piling on more work that wasn't part of the original scope. So now I need to figure out exactly what it is you need, determine what it will cost, try to figure out any alternatives that may be faster/cheaper. All of this takes time, and after all that now I need to talk to the powers that be to figure out if it's something we can add or not and how it impacts other projects. Bigger companies have processes to go through to handle this, but if that was the case you wouldn't be asking engineers directly. If I don't do that, then I get yelled at for doing something out of scope (on top of blowing by my KPIs). Also, "with a reasonable amount of work" is not a standardized unit of measurement. Maybe you think 6 months and $100k is fine, but last person to ask that was expecting 1 week and $5k.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:47
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Tetramin posted:That’s probably because they’ve been burned by bad PMs over promising without taking anything like that into consideration. if you can't estimate on the fly whether a job is doable in a given timeframe and boil that down to a straightforward answer, the answer is no, you do not know how to do that job or there is not enough information to give a real answer. Having had to deal with overpromisers in the past might make you lean on the conservative side with what you agree to, but it's still a yes or no question; most of the guys who pull this poo poo just have no respect for anyone's time and think it makes them sound Very Smart to filibuster a meeting with their internal monologue. It's not like engineers are the only field that has ever had to deal with starting a project, they're just one of the few that people tolerate this level of social skills in. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 18:51
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Yeah, some people are just poo poo communicators that you need to wrangle straight answers out of like an interrogator, and you never know when they're going to turn something into a lecture. Reminds me of when I tried to help my mum with the gardening and it took at least three tries for her to give me a straight, understandable answer to what she actually wanted me to do.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:56
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haveblue posted:It's just the opposite, especially for questions of the form "can we do this thing on the project", because they fixate on the unspoken "with a reasonable amount of work" and try to figure out what that amount of work is and whether it meets a standard of reasonability. Out loud, in front of you. For me, in my experience, this is the difference between a junior and senior engineer. Ask a junior if they can do something they will almost certainly say yes, of course it can be done almost anything 'can' be done. A senior engineer knows that's not what's really being asked, can it be done before the heat death of the universe?
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Jun 11, 2021 19:14
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:if you can't estimate on the fly whether a job is doable in a given timeframe and boil that down to a straightforward answer, the answer is no, you do not know how to do that job or there is not enough information to give a real answer. Having had to deal with overpromisers in the past might make you lean on the conservative side with what you agree to, but it's still a yes or no question; most of the guys who pull this poo poo just have no respect for anyone else's time and think it makes them sound Very Smart to filibuster a meeting. "You're a poo poo engineer if you can't give an exact answer in 10 seconds" is quite the hot take. Usually the question is, "hey the customer asked for a ball fondler, can we do that?" 90% of the time there's no timeline, there's no budget, it's just an open ended question that can be answered a million ways. Everything is do-able, just depends on the time/budget constraints. If I blindly say yes, then I'll get yelled at when it costs twice what you expected and doesn't even look like what you envisioned. Do you mind if it takes a week? What about 4 weeks? Do you need a Gold Plated Ball Fondler, or is plastic OK? Does the ball fondler need to be size and height adjustable? Does it need speed controls? Engineers aren't telepathic, we need to know the constraints of what you're asking to give a proper answer. There's no unspoken "reasonable amount of work," because that's a number that exists solely in your head. What you think is reasonable is wildly different from what I think is reasonable, and both those numbers are different from what management thinks is reasonable.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:21
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DaveSauce posted:"You're a poo poo engineer if you can't give an exact answer in 10 seconds" is quite the hot take. Usually the question is, "hey the customer asked for a ball fondler, can we do that?" 90% of the time there's no timeline, there's no budget, it's just an open ended question that can be answered a million ways. I don't think I'm going to be able to explain how to ask other human beings for the information you need to someone who views that as an unreasonably difficult task in the space of a short derail in the thread about neurotic Redditors.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:26
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I just asked for a quote drat, I thought this was supposed to be confidential.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:28
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DaveSauce posted:"You're a poo poo engineer if you can't give an exact answer in 10 seconds" is quite the hot take. Usually the question is, "hey the customer asked for a ball fondler, can we do that?" 90% of the time there's no timeline, there's no budget, it's just an open ended question that can be answered a million ways. Yeah, unless the question is something absurdly simple like "how long would it take to count the number of ASCII characters in the text of this children's book, already in a handy plain text file format", any given timeline is going to range from "mildly inaccurate" to "hilariously wrong". Part of engineering is figuring out what the requirement provider actually needs and what their requirements actually are, not just "hey can you make a widget". That takes quite a while sometimes.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:31
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:I don't think I'm going to be able to explain how to ask other human beings for the information you need to someone who views that as an unreasonably difficult task in the space of a short derail in the thread about neurotic Redditors. idk usually I answer the question haveblue posted:"can we do this thing on the project" by haveblue posted:try to figure out what that amount of work is and whether it meets a standard of reasonability. Out loud, in front of you. I mean if it doesn't need an immediate response, then just say "hey the customer wants <x> can someone work up an estimate for me?" Then it's easily taken offline and if I need clarification I'll come back to you, otherwise I'll send you an estimate with cost, timeline, a description of what I'm doing and the assumptions I made, so you can stick in a quote and give it to the customer. DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 19:32
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DaveSauce posted:"You're a poo poo engineer if you can't give an exact answer in 10 seconds" is quite the hot take. Usually the question is, "hey the customer asked for a ball fondler, can we do that?" 90% of the time there's no timeline, there's no budget, it's just an open ended question that can be answered a million ways. Yeah, this. I mean if you are just in charge of quoting a single aspect of a job and you have all the data, you should be able to give some sort of answer. But if the project you're asked to do involves a number of different processes beyond just touching computers, there's usually a myriad of ways to get the job done with different budgets, overall specifications, appearances, manufacturing methods and quantities. Giving a quote and having an idea of how to get the job done could take days or even weeks depending on the complexity, novelty or number of steps in the supply chain required. Quoting too low/quick could gently caress the company, quoting too high/slow could lose the job.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:35
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:I don't think I'm going to be able to explain how to ask other human beings for the information you need to someone who views that as an unreasonably difficult task in the space of a short derail in the thread about neurotic Redditors. So then it's on me to figure out what I think an appropriate scope is. Which is great, I can totally do that...but this is also where those two-page manifestos of scope/design intent/assumptions come into play, so that it's clear from the get-go what the expectations for the final product are going to be.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:44
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Combo posted:One of the main things I've become is a loving interpreter for the guy. People come to me now with questions for him, and either I answer them if I can, or I boil them down to their essence to get his answer, and then re-interpret his answer for the person that was initially asking.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:46
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MagusofStars posted:Unfortunately, in my experience, the answer is often a vague "I dunno, customer wants a ball fondler, that's all I got". Or, from the customer, the response will be an equally unhelpful "uh, something that shakes well?" yeah, except we're not talking about SOWs. You're not going to verbally dictate a SOW on the spot and of course nobody's going to have an exhaustive list of every possible spec off the top of their head, that's not how project management or contract negotiation are actually done. You are simply failing to grasp the distinction between that scenario and when some guy is just asking you to give his balls a tug and you start sounding off about gold plating, which circles back to this whole communication skills thing. This is poo poo everyone in any field of labor involving personal initiative does every day, it's not some mystical art non-engineers could never understand. Most other people are just expected to also understand the difference between information they (and the other party) really need and information that could theoretically exist in the world, and not bother the guy who only knows or cares about balls with an extended digression on the history of resin mixers. Like, look back at the original example that kicked this discussion off and tell me which part of what that guy said beyond "I accept" was really relevant to adding understanding or clarifying expectations. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 20:01
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Absolutely. Though I wish I had a secretary.
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Jun 11, 2021 20:02
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There are situations in life that you have to communicate absolutely clearly. Accepting a job is one. Why the dude couldn't write "I accept your offer. I look forward to working with you" is beyond me. Another example of utterly clear communication is proposing. Don't bring up at dinner "hey what would you think about us getting married". Is that a proposal? If the person answers "hmmm I think it's a good idea, we get along great" is that "accepting"? Who knows? That seems more like a tentative prospective plan, not a formal offer. You get down on one knee, offer a ring if you've got one (I didn't, I just held her hand) and say "Permabanned poster Proposalstomper58, will you marry me?". It's not physically demanding or complex and requires no coordination with anyone other than the person you're proposing to. At the very least you do them the courtesy of knowing this is it, they are being proposed to right here right now. They may not want your sorry rear end and maybe the middle of the orgy wasn't a good time in retrospect, but at least they knew they were getting an offer when they heard it.
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Jun 11, 2021 20:05
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Uncle Enzo posted:There are situations in life that you have to communicate absolutely clearly. Accepting a job is one. Why the dude couldn't write "I accept your offer. I look forward to working with you" is beyond me. while I agree 100% I just want to share how my wife proposed: wife: we're gonna end up married one of these days, want to figure that out now? me: fuckin' rights we then proceeded to get our ring sizes and ordered a bunch of tungsten wedding bands so if we lost one there would be a steady stream of replacements
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Jun 11, 2021 20:26
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My (30M) GF (31F) of three years said no more sexquote:Everything has been going great, but a week ago she told me she has been praying a lot and doesn't want to have sex again until she is married. We talked for a long time and she says she doesn't believe in the dogmatic christian things (she's evangelical) but thinks its just better for her and relationships to save sex for marriage.
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Jun 11, 2021 20:36
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r/relationships: the combo of gangbangs and being evangelical never really made sense to me either
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Jun 11, 2021 20:38
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quote:the combo of gangbangs and being evangelical never really made sense to me either, but I just rolled with it. new thread title edit: drat it
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Jun 11, 2021 20:39
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Invisible Clergy posted:OP knows she's playing with him, but that's ok cause he's got no self-esteem. And he wonders why she sleeps with his friends. I know he should stick up for himself
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Jun 11, 2021 20:48
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cumshitter posted:My (30M) GF (31F) of three years said no more sex Time to hop back on fetlife my man.
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Jun 11, 2021 20:53
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