NBA Draft 2021 - True Holy Sainted Hero of the Goons

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creamcorn: Oct 26, 2007; automatic gun for fast, continuous firing

Kirios posted:

Mac's gonna get drafted and I'll be the first one here to lol at the team that does.

(please don't take a flier on him Rockets)

i think the rockets had their fill of super-athletic white guy with no skills after sam dekker. i know nothing about macclung apart from him thunderously dunking, though.

# ? Jun 21, 2021 08:15

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 17:02

Veryslightlymad: Jun 3, 2007; I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction

straight up brolic posted:

https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1406689491633459207?s=21

This list is a really, really good argument to never take a guy who can pull off those stunts.

I'm pretty sure Nate Robinson and Hamidou Diallo are the only reasonably decent players on that entire list.

# ? Jun 21, 2021 16:18

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Veryslightlymad posted:

This list is a really, really good argument to never take a guy who can pull off those stunts.

I'm pretty sure Nate Robinson and Hamidou Diallo are the only reasonably decent players on that entire list.

Connaughton is a decent rotation wing and Larkin is currently one of the best players in Europe and could probably come back and hold down a backup guard spot but yeah

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1406998272925908999?s=19

gonna stop posting about Mitchell I swear but I'm a big Deuce McBride fan. Decision making can be iffy but I think he gives you like 90% of what Mitchell does in terms of guard D and he's got a better shooting projection. You can also get him in the late first or early second instead of the lottery.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 21, 2021

# ? Jun 21, 2021 16:23

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

Mac McLung being the best athlete in NBA combine history is actually pretty loving funny

https://twitter.com/jodyhighroller/status/1407326837877923846?s=21

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:20

Henchman of Santa: Aug 21, 2010

straight up brolic posted:

Mac McLung being the best athlete in NBA combine history is actually pretty loving funny

https://twitter.com/jodyhighroller/status/1407326837877923846?s=21

And what company he keeps on that list!

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:22

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

Henchman of Santa posted:

And what company he keeps on that list!

The key is to run a 3.01 if you�re faster than that, you�re too fast

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:23

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

1 5
1 5
1 5
clap clap
1 5
1 5
1 5
clap clap
1 5
1 5
1 5
clap clap

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:31

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Henchman of Santa posted:

And what company he keeps on that list!

Way better than the vert list though.

McClung should have had the decency to be 5'10 or something and be the White Nate.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:42

Hand Knit: Oct 24, 2005; Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

John Hollinger put up his top 20 prospects for The Athletic. I dunno how well respected he is as a prospectologist but his results seemed pretty divergent from what others had put so I figure I'll share.

1. Cade Cunningham
2. Evan Mobley (as close to equal with Cade)
3. Scottie Barnes
4. Alperen Sengun
5. Jalen Green
6. Jalen Suggs
7. Franz Wagner
8. Jonathan Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Josh Giddey
11. Jared Butler
12. Corey Kispert
13. James Bouknight
14. Moses Moody
15. Usman Garuba
16. Davion Mitchell
17. Miles McBride
18. Keon Johnson
19. Chris Duarte
20. Jaden Springer

On Barnes he writes:

quote:

I�m really surprised Barnes isn�t getting more buzz. He could easily end up as the best player in this draft and has a case for being the top pick.

Again, the search for big wings comes first at the NBA level and everything comes later, and the playoffs are showing why. Barnes has weaknesses and we�ll get to them in a minute, but there is early Spurs-era Kawhi Leonard upside here as well.

For starters, for a player who is supposed to be terrible at offense, Barnes�s offensive numbers are pretty darned good. He came off the bench for a relatively slow-paced team and that muted his counting stats, but Barnes averaged 23.8 points per 100 possessions � similar to the rate of most other first-round hopefuls � and shot 56.1% inside the arc. Both numbers increased in ACC play when the Seminoles played their most difficult competition.

Barnes showed an ability to get all the way to the cup under his own steam, something he should be able to do much more in the open floor that the NBA offers. Even against defenders that lay off him, Barnes chews up space with huge strides and can finish over any guard at 6-foot-9, which allowed him to generate rim attempts despite lacking explosiveness.

Despite his huge size, Barnes loves to play defense and often checked opposing point guards. I don�t mean switches, either; this was his primary assignment. With his long arms and relentless motor, he frequently picked the dribble of ballhandlers on the perimeter. He offers the kind of switchable �checkmate� defensive answer that every team craves, with the size to check interior players but the quickness and hands to switch onto any perimeter threat. All the background on him is fantastic, too.

Barnes has warts, particularly in his shooting and his lack of off-the-dribble turbo gear, and that could put a cap on his offensive upside. He doesn�t rebound well for his size and was outplayed by Michigan�s Franz Wagner (see below) in an NCAA tournament game. His downside looms if the shooting doesn�t make him playable at the end of games.

That said, I remain amazed he isn�t getting more buzz. For comparison, Patrick Williams came off the bench for Florida State a year earlier and ended up as the fourth pick in the draft, and Barnes�s tools and production dwarf Williams�. As the draft�s No. 2 on-the-ball prospect, he compares favorably to Cunningham on defense and distribution but pales next to him as a shooter.

As ever, shooting is the swing skill, and it�s why I rate Cunningham higher. Barnes�s floor is just much lower because of the shooting question. Nonetheless, I happen to think Barnes is so skilled in other respects that he�s still a useful player even if he doesn�t shoot � think a jumbo, rim-threatening version of Bruce Brown. And if he shoots even halfway decently, he has a pretty good runway to being an NBA All-Star.

On Sengun:

quote:

As I noted a few months ago, Sengun is the pearl of a strong international class, and he is still flying somewhat under the radar despite winning the MVP of the Turkish League. That league is probably the second-best in Europe right now after Spain�s, and the history says that when a teenager � Sengun turns 19 in July � crushes a good overseas league like that, the fail rate is basically nil.

There are legitimate concerns about Sengun defensively, that he might be the type of guy who gets run off the floor in a playoff series. Overall I would profile him as similar to Kevin Love � more of a �4.5� than a true five and somebody whose offense will need to make up for non-elite rim protection and mobility. Nonetheless, his offensive skill set is crazy good for a player this age. He has ball skills, passing ability, a good shooting stroke that projects to 3-point range and a dizzying array of spins, pivots and finishes on the low block.

I�ll be surprised if he isn�t able to rack up double-doubles relatively early in his career; it�s the defensive question in the modern game that keeps him out of my top three, and even then I still wonder if I have him too low. A lot of not-very-athletic bigs with average tools but advanced feel have ended up being far better defenders than initially projected � Marc Gasol obviously comes to mind for me � and Sengun could be another example. I wouldn�t just write him off at this end of the floor.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:42

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

unfortunately Mac McClung also plays like he thinks he is the best shooter in the history of the combine

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:43

Metapod: Mar 18, 2012

I agree with that Barnes take

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:43

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Barnes tools "dwarfing" Patrick Williams seems very wrong unless he is defining tools very differently than I would.

I have Barnes higher now than I did on my last board after watching the playoffs. Guys that size who can dribble, pass, and play D have a high floor and get extra valuable in the post season but 3 still seems way high given just how bad the shot is and the athletic concerns.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:46

Stevie Lee: Oct 8, 2007

cookie belcher

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:54

morestuff: Aug 2, 2008; You can't stop what's coming

Convinced the Hornets are going to move up in the lottery this year. I always do, but at least now I'm on a hot streak

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:13

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

Lmao what the gently caress is that John Hollinger board

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:22

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

people are sleeping on alperen, and they shouldn�t

straight up brolic posted:

Mac McLung being the best athlete in NBA combine history is actually pretty loving funny

https://twitter.com/jodyhighroller/status/1407326837877923846?s=21

he went to the Joe Alexander School of Plyometrics and probably won�t be able to actually apply any of it in a game, but it is objectively very funny

MourningView posted:

Barnes tools "dwarfing" Patrick Williams seems very wrong unless he is defining tools very differently than I would.

I have Barnes higher now than I did on my last board after watching the playoffs. Guys that size who can dribble, pass, and play D have a high floor and get extra valuable in the post season but 3 still seems way high given just how bad the shot is and the athletic concerns.

i feel like the shot will come along but given how many times it hasn�t with other prospects and how bad it looks right now (really, really awful), maybe i shouldn�t feel that way

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:34

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

Henchman of Santa posted:

And what company he keeps on that list!

Who are you to doubt SirValiant Brown

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:35

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

Aqualung does have in game athleticism tbh I watched him a bunch this season because the Longhorns played TTU like 20 times he�s just not a smart player

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:37

IcePhoenix: Sep 18, 2005; Take me to your Shida

I'm so excited for the Wolves to finally officially land at 4 tonight

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:40

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

straight up brolic posted:

Lmao what the gently caress is that John Hollinger board

By his standards it's honestly not that weird beyond having a few old guys too high and maybe not accounting for Sengun's play style enough. I'm surprised he doesn't hate Kuminga more, but I think that's just because he assumes all drafts suck after like 8.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:43

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

IcePhoenix posted:

I'm so excited for the Wolves to finally officially land at 4 tonight

lol yeah this streak of luck we've had lately is long overdue to run out

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:54

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

There just isn�t any clear guiding principal, how can you have both Kispert and Barnes too high when they are diametric opposites lol

# ? Jun 22, 2021 16:33

Highline: Mar 28, 2009

Is there any way Presti doesn't take Scottie Barnes if he's available?

Big athletic wing who can't shoot? Check, check, and check baby!

# ? Jun 22, 2021 16:36

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Highline posted:

Is there any way Presti doesn't take Scottie Barnes if he's available?

Big athletic wing who can't shoot? Check, check, and check baby!

Barnes can't really jump (or at least has such a long load time that it doesn't show up in games or his stats at all) which is normally a thing Presti goes all in on so I could see him going with Kuminga instead, especially since he seems to hate drafting college players.

straight up brolic posted:

There just isn�t any clear guiding principal, how can you have both Kispert and Barnes too high when they are diametric opposites lol

He thinks Barnes has actual star upside but by the time he gets to Kispert I think he's just decided to value guys with an obvious NBA role, which Kispert has as a big wing shooter, that's also why Butler is in the same general range. I think that's undervaluing guys like Springer, Johnson, and Moody (especially Moody who also has an obvious immediate role but actually plays D and is way younger) but I at least kinda get his logic. There's a point where he starts valuing floor over ceiling.

Personally I don't agree at all with Kispert in the lottery when you can get Weiskamp in the 40s or Sam Hauser or Matthew Hurt in the 50-UDFA range but I get the argument at least.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 16:48

Think Less: Dec 29, 2016

The thunder need everything, but as someone who watched every single game they played last season, the two biggest needs are playmaking and rim protection. Sga was the only one who could reliably initiate the offense, and after horford sat, the paint was wide open.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 16:52

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Think Less posted:

The thunder need everything, but as someone who watched every single game they played last season, the two biggest needs are playmaking and rim protection. Sga was the only one who could reliably initiate the offense, and after horford sat, the paint was wide open.

Yeah Barnes definitely fits as a secondary playmaker. I think Springer would be good there too, and Sharife Cooper could be a fun pairing with SGA. Butler and Duarte also make sense a little later, and I could see Presti being really into Nix as a second rounder.

For rim protection it's honestly not a great class but Garuba and Isaiah Jackson would both fit pretty well and maybe Day'ron Sharpe with one of those early second picks or packaging some stuff to move up into the late first.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:07

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

straight up brolic posted:

Mac McLung being the best athlete in NBA combine history is actually pretty loving funny

https://twitter.com/jodyhighroller/status/1407326837877923846?s=21

Mods please rename me Cookie Belcher

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:10

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

The "Williams went #4 and Barnes is better" thing seems a bit disingenuous because last year's draft was kind of a free fall after the top 3 with the next tier of prospects all being eye of the beholder types. This one has had a pretty solid top 5 for some time

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:16

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

The Glumslinger posted:

Mods please rename me Cookie Belcher

Best draft player name since God Shammgod (who I just now found out works as a player development coach for the Mavs)

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:28

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Wait Sharife Cooper is suddenly 6'3.5"?

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/

He grew like 3-4 inches

:thunk:

is this a Shaq Harrison situation. It has to be right?

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:24

ButtWolf: Dec 30, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Think Less posted:

The thunder need everything, but as someone who watched every single game they played last season, the two biggest needs are playmaking and rim protection. Sga was the only one who could reliably initiate the offense, and after horford sat, the paint was wide open.

I believe in Theo. I'd love Mobley. Grab Mitchell, Butler, Cooper or Duarte at 16 for more playmaking. Wild swing if Garuba is gone at 18 and 34 or 55 or whatever the hell else we have. Nix is cool

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:24

Think Less: Dec 29, 2016

ButtWolf posted:

I believe in Theo. I'd love Mobley. Grab Mitchell, Butler, Cooper or Duarte at 16 for more playmaking. Wild swing if Garuba is gone at 18 and 34 or 55 or whatever the hell else we have. Nix is cool

yeah i think theo will eventually be a good player to run the bench unit. dude just turned 20

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:31

Jota: May 6, 2003; uga-booga uga-booga

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1407389931773861899?s=20

what? hope he's alright

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:32

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Dexo posted:

Wait Sharife Cooper is suddenly 6'3.5"?

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/

He grew like 3-4 inches

is this a Shaq Harrison situation. It has to be right?

Yeah there's no way that's real, he is like 5'10." If it is real he should go like fifth lol.

E: the artist formerly known as Cosmis points out that they probably couldn't figure out how to measure his hair

Jota posted:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1407389931773861899?s=20

what? hope he's alright

There have been rumors about some sort of heart condition with him for a long time, there were college teams who supposedly backed off of him in recruiting because of it. Hopefully not anything too serious

MourningView fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:36

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

Jota posted:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1407389931773861899?s=20

what? hope he's alright

probably an abnormality during a physical; assuming it is, they�ll do an ekg and run a battery of tests to make sure his heart doesn�t explode from playing basketball

hopefully it�s nothing, and if it is something, it�s good they caught it before he died

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:36

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

https://twitter.com/NBADraftScoutin/status/1407393298839441415?s=19

this is harder to trust in light of the cooper thing but also ZIAIRE HIVE RISE UP

(it's just me and PD Web it is a small hive)

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:47

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

MourningView posted:

https://twitter.com/NBADraftScoutin/status/1407393298839441415?s=19

this is harder to trust in light of the cooper thing but also ZIAIRE HIVE RISE UP

(it's just me and PD Web it is a small hive)

I am choosing to stupidly believe Cooper has grown 4 inches and is now probably second on my board of people I want the Bulls to draft if they move up into the top 4.

edit:

lmao

https://twitter.com/BrianJDraft/status/1407394934337019904

Dexo fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:48

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

So what�s the deal here, I feel like 5�11 vs. 6�3 you can like see in person. There�s no way they would gently caress that up that bad

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:57

straight up brolic: Jan 31, 2007; After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

https://twitter.com/brianjdraft/status/1407392539494293514?s=21

lol

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:59

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 17:02

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1407392442584686604?s=19

feeling a little vindicated in my Mitchell skepticism and very vindicated for my "Abmas and Markus Howard are the same guy" take

# ? Jun 22, 2021 19:03

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