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Post Ironic Cereal posted:Every so often I feel the urge to revisit Escape from LA, but I can't imagine Pam Grier's character aging well. I remember her intro being kind of uncomfortable when I saw it the first time, I can't imagine how it holds up now. I have never felt the urge to revisit Escape From LA. It's bad.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:00
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I watched S4 when it came out and hated it, and made it like one episode into S5. Lmao they actually made season 5? Holy poo poo.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:07
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I watched it and laughed st exactly one line("spiderman 2, the first one"). It really felt like nobody wanted to be there but they felt like they had to.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:12
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Source4Leko posted:Lmao they actually made season 5? Holy poo poo.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:24
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:Every so often I feel the urge to revisit Escape from LA, but I can't imagine Pam Grier's character aging well. I remember her intro being kind of uncomfortable when I saw it the first time, I can't imagine how it holds up now. Exaggeratedly deep voice ✓ Hypersexualized ✓ Deadnaming ✓ Goofy drag name ✓ Crocodile Dundee Dick Check ✓
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Jul 19, 2021 16:29
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deoju posted:The original run of Arrested Development is 15 years or so old and there's a lot of transphobic poo poo in there that makes me cringe. Framing is definitely quite important in this case, but the show at large doesn't really shy away from showing everyone as a pos. As I mentioned though, I haven't watched it in 15 years and I'm sure it's full of early 2000 humor that would not fly today framed as a general "funny" thing.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:32
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I can't believe they're still making new always sunny seasons. the first seven seasons are absolute gold and I can watch them an infinite number of times, but by season 10 it was so embarrassingly fuckin bad, I haven't watched it since. I just pretend it ended
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Jul 19, 2021 16:36
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It's always sunny was the first show that had a trans character where the trans woman wasn't the joke and the main character was. Or at least the first time I saw it on TV in the US.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:44
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That Italian Guy posted:I haven't watched AD since its original run, but I guess part of the bad stuff may also be due to the fact that...everyone is supposed to be a terrible person? Source4Leko posted:It's always sunny was the first show that had a trans character where the trans woman wasn't the joke and the main character was. Or at least the first time I saw it on TV in the US. Ellie Crabcakes has a new favorite as of 16:58 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 16:45
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Ellie Trashcakes posted:I call that "jerkwashing" You want to make the joke, so you launder it through a character you've contrived to be *just* sympathetic enough for a larger audience to be able to stand week after week. I mean, there are plenty of shows that "lampshade" problematic stuff as if that would make it ok (IE: saying that your token gay character is a token gay character, or having someone say that a joke is misogynistic and then framing it as if it was funny anyway)...but I don't think this is the case in AD, when "these people are horrible" is the main theme of the show. Same as with IASIP. The Big Bang Theory is a big offender for this kind of lampshading instead, on top of being terrible. The main characters display all the negative connotations of traditional nerds (misogyny first and foremost) but are framed as endearing and "charming" in their way; they often have someone say "well you can't say that" along the recorded laugh track ffs. That Italian Guy has a new favorite as of 17:04 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 16:59
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Last Chance posted:I watched season 5 of AD and it was a test of endurance in its awfulness. If anyone cares, it ends with the reveal that Buster killed Lucille 2 and encased her in cement, which is probably the worst, saddest way to end that show. I also watched season 5, and the ending with Buster retroactively made the show worse. That said, there are a few bits of season 4 that I enjoyed, especially after Netflix cut them into a real series instead of the original character-focused cut they made. The scene with Kitty and GOB in the LEM comes to mind.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:09
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:there are a few bits of season 4 that I enjoyed 90% of the stuff in season 4 I liked was Tobias stuff. The Method One acting clinic was great, and "who wants to help daddy get his rocks off?" made me legit spit take.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:17
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Source4Leko posted:It's always sunny was the first show that had a trans character where the trans woman wasn't the joke and the main character was. Or at least the first time I saw it on TV in the US. Actually, I remember an article I read online once that went through every live-action trans person that had been on American TV at the time, and I remember being surprised that the earliest depictions were actually really respectful. Sure, they were almost all conflating trans people and drag queens (I suspect that to be partly ignorance and partly working around network censors), but the first wave of trans people on TV were all sitcoms where the main character is clearly wrong for not accepting them. I really wish I could find that article again, it was interesting to see how there were basically layers of sediment where most trans characters fit different very specific roles. The 'sympathetic sitcom guest of the week' era, the 'deceitful soap opera character' era, the 'faceless victim in police prodecurals' era... It was depressing, most of those eras sucked and progress wasn't exactly straight up, but it was neat to see the movements get charted and see how constant it was.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:24
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Ellie Trashcakes posted:
You'll find no disagreement from me that it wasn't perfect but it was utterly different from anyone I'd seen on a TV show until then.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:24
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Source4Leko posted:It's always sunny was the first show that had a trans character where the trans woman wasn't the joke and the main character was. Or at least the first time I saw it on TV in the US. Twin Peaks beat it by quite a while
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Jul 19, 2021 17:25
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Cleretic posted:Actually, I remember an article I read online once that went through every live-action trans person that had been on American TV at the time, and I remember being surprised that the earliest depictions were actually really respectful. Sure, they were almost all conflating trans people and drag queens (I suspect that to be partly ignorance and partly working around network censors), but the first wave of trans people on TV were all sitcoms where the main character is clearly wrong for not accepting them. Would be fascinating to see that list. I grew up in the 90s and the representation I saw on prime time network TV was uniformially loving awful.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:27
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thetoughestbean posted:Twin Peaks beat it by quite a while Might have to check that out that was before my time.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:27
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Cleretic posted:Actually, I remember an article I read online once that went through every live-action trans person that had been on American TV at the time, and I remember being surprised that the earliest depictions were actually really respectful. Sure, they were almost all conflating trans people and drag queens (I suspect that to be partly ignorance and partly working around network censors), but the first wave of trans people on TV were all sitcoms where the main character is clearly wrong for not accepting them. All In The Family had a sympathetic recurring drag queen character (Beverly LaSalle). The only person who has a problem with her is, predictably, Archie. Of course, they un up killing her off in a Very Special Episode.
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Jul 19, 2021 18:01
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Source4Leko posted:Might have to check that out that was before my time. Oh man it's so good And I'm not saying that out of nostalgia, I only watched it the first time a couple months ago Here's some media that didn't age well, though - Twin Peaks Season 2, roughly episodes 11 to 20 I guess it was terrible at the time as well though.
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Jul 19, 2021 18:39
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The other day I had some video essays in the background while playing a game and I was listening to one about how you could only have non-hetero characters as antagonists in American media for a long while because of the regulations on TV/movie content. The interesting part is that this was at the same time creating terrible representation but was also used by queer people working in the field to sneak in cool characters that were also coded as queer. This constant association between queer characters and villains would be later responsible (together with homophobia) for characters like Buffalo Bill; but also for every single Disney villain being coded as queer in a positive/fabulous way.
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Jul 19, 2021 18:42
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Denise is the only good thing about Twin Peaks S2 and I wish there was just a supercut of all her scenes so I could skip the rest of the season on rewatch.
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Jul 19, 2021 20:23
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docbeard posted:I have yet to watch S4 and have not heard one thing that suggests that I should be in any hurry to do so. You've gotten the right impression. There are some genuinely good jokes here and there but like one good joke an episode is not enough to keep it from being a sad experience overall. Barry Foster posted:Here's some media that didn't age well, though - Twin Peaks Season 2, roughly episodes 11 to 20 I mean it did manage to go from being one of the most popular shows on TV to cancelled in like a 6 week period or something 
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Jul 19, 2021 20:25
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I wondered the other night if the Brass Eye episodes that aren't Paedo-Geddon have aged well but I'm too worried to check in case they have not.
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Jul 19, 2021 20:25
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goldenninjawarrior posted:I wondered the other night if the Brass Eye episodes that aren't Paedo-Geddon have aged well but I'm too worried to check in case they have not. They're a worrying prediction of what news is actually like today. And they mostly hold up!
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Jul 19, 2021 20:50
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I actually enjoy season 4 of Arrested Development for what it is, but season 5 feels as old and tired and creaky as the cast itself.
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Jul 19, 2021 22:26
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I remember liking Arrested Development S4 just fine (to be fair, I'll watch Maria Bamford in anything) but by the time 5 rolled around all of the dirty laundry had been aired and the fun was sucked right out of it. It's hard watching actresses you admire work through what's been revealed as a tense and, for lack of a better word, abusive environment when it's all played for laughs, especially when the most prominent lead died with her last moment in the spotlight being piled on by her (male) fellow cast members. It's a great show, but also one that feels like it should stay in the past.
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Jul 19, 2021 22:36
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That Italian Guy posted:The other day I had some video essays in the background while playing a game and I was listening to one about how you could only have non-hetero characters as antagonists in American media for a long while because of the regulations on TV/movie content. This all sounds pretty interesting. Could you point me in the direction of more info? Thanks.
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Jul 19, 2021 22:40
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my favorite thing about AD S4 was the subtle and not-so-subtle jokes where the main cast's foibles reflect the other projects they were working on since AD got canceled the only thing i remember at all about S5 is the court episodes, which i thought were better than most of the court episodes the show goes through also a big difference between AD and IASIP is that The Gang is really, really openly lovely in every way, but AD kinda takes the coward's route and tries to portray bateman as a put-upon everyman (even though in the actual plots of the episodes he is usually as bad or worse than his insane family)
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Jul 19, 2021 22:54
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I recall a few years ago starting up AD and going from S1-3 in a week or two, then starting S4 and making it through like 2 episodes before dropping it and never going back. It just lacks all the magic of the original show and I'm not sure I could even explain why. The green screen doesn't help but in general it's missing a lot of charm.
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Jul 19, 2021 22:57
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I went through Season 4 of AD maybe a year ago for the first time since it came out and was surprised how well it held up; I remembered not liking it much at the time. I still think about "Cinco de Quatro" about once per day. But I barely made it an episode into Season 5, it was truly dire. In terms of early trans representation, Dog Day Afternoon holds up incredibly well, in addition to being a thrilling movie besides. If you just hear the plot of a 70s movie as "man robs a bank to pay for partner's gender-reassignment surgery," you'd imagine the most sneering portrayal imaginable, but both characters are treated with dignity.
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Jul 19, 2021 23:33
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Rochallor posted:
If I had to pick one of De Niro, Pacino and John Cazale to have died tragically young, Cazale wouldn't be the one I'd choose. He appeared in just five movies; every single one of them was Oscar nominated for Best Picture and three of them won, and Cazale held his own in all of them. He was an amazing actor.
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Jul 20, 2021 00:48
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Rochallor posted:
I didn't know this movie existed until this post and its now at the top of my watchlist. Thanks!
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Jul 20, 2021 01:19
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Jedit posted:If I had to pick one of De Niro, Pacino and John Cazale to have died tragically young, Cazale wouldn't be the one I'd choose. He appeared in just five movies; every single one of them was Oscar nominated for Best Picture and three of them won, and Cazale held his own in all of them. He was an amazing actor. I would simply not pick any of them to die tragically young.
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Jul 20, 2021 01:28
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He said you had to
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Jul 20, 2021 01:36
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What if we compromise and they go in a coma
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Jul 20, 2021 01:37
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oldpainless posted:He said you had to I know lol it’s just a wild framing of “I think he was the best actor of the three.” Plus it would deprive of us of Heat.
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Jul 20, 2021 01:38
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Arrested Development season 4 is uniquely bad for the fact that they made 2 versions of it and neither one ended up salvageable. The recut was slightly better at first because it felt better-paced in how it would cut between the different characters like the old show used to. But on a macro level the pacing got screwed up even worse, and it ended up petering out long before the finish line. They also felt the need to shorten the episodes and pad them out with excessive recaps to give it a higher episode count.
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Jul 20, 2021 01:43
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Rochallor posted:
Screw that guy.
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Jul 20, 2021 01:52
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add me to the list of people just finding out there was an AD season 5  also, another show that surprisingly positive portrayal of trans people was fricken' Sons of Anarchy. figure it was also probably able to get away with it too cause the shows hypermasculine but also a soap opera for dudes. kind of like with the gay characters in Spartacus
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Jul 20, 2021 10:06
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CharlestheHammer posted:What if we compromise and they go in a coma This wouldnt impact latter day DeNiro much. thetoughestbean posted:Twin Peaks beat it by quite a while I think Twin Peaks meant well, but I remember it stumbling a little but nothing I (cis person) felt was egregious or mean. Let's not forget this is in the same season as Catherine Martell's extended yellowface storyline, and I'm a season 2 defender (it only really stumbles after the reveal of Laura's killer and the ending is phenomenal - as a rule, if Dale is in his FBI suit, its a good episode and Windham Earl is cool)
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Jul 20, 2021 15:48
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