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That whole plot was a tweeeest ending thing. They were loyal to Horus the whole time, a few people in there were actual loyalists that were purged. The whole thing relied on ambiguity about their loyalty and the reader assuming that any native terran unit would be loyal to the Emperor so Thorpe just doesn't specify at any point. Which is something that gives the twist away if you're paying attention/are familiar with those kind of tropes because it gets really weird how they never once mention what their cause is or who they're loyal to until they set off a load of bombs and unfurl the Warmaster's banner, which should have been a pretty clear resolution to it.
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Dec 15, 2021 19:40
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They should never have done the heresy as a book series. Ah well.
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Dec 15, 2021 20:10
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The Adabba Free Corp was just one of four plots in The First Wall and I didn't enjoy it at first because the book kept time jumping back to them during bigger more present moments in the novel. I can forgive it for being a kind of go nowhere twist ending plot, because it literally made me stop reading with my mouth agape for a moment and question everything I had read about them up to that point.
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Dec 15, 2021 20:11
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/15/incoming-new-tales-of-the-astra-militarum New Krieg novel from the Dead Men Walking author. Also a Catachan jungle fighters novel!
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Dec 15, 2021 20:32
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AndyElusive posted:I dunno, he wrote The First Wall and that was alright. The First Wall was the worst Siege of Terra book and Gav Thorpe is bad.
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Dec 15, 2021 20:37
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AndyElusive posted:The Adabba Free Corp was just one of four plots in The First Wall and I didn't enjoy it at first because the book kept time jumping back to them during bigger more present moments in the novel. I can forgive it for being a kind of go nowhere twist ending plot, because it literally made me stop reading with my mouth agape for a moment and question everything I had read about them up to that point. I kind of liked it, because it explained how the loyalists were in such a bad shape during the siege. They tried to have a massive support army coming to their aid, but they didn't realise that old betrayals and enmity would be exploited by horus, and what should have been the equivalent of theoden's army coming over the ridge was instead destroyed during its muster when it was most vulnerable.
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Dec 15, 2021 20:59
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Biplane posted:Gav Thorpe is a Bad Writer.
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Dec 15, 2021 21:35
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The crazy wide gap in skill between people like Wraight, ADB and Farrer, and the people like Thorpe, is just insane to me.
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Dec 15, 2021 21:41
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Deptfordx posted:The First Wall was the worst Siege of Terra book and Gav Thorpe is bad. The First Wall was the best Siege of Terra book after Saturnine imo. The Adabba Free Corp thing was probably my favourite plot point in the entire Siege series for me, and easily more memorable than the rest. The Solar War was also quite good - less for space battles and more for the portrayals of your everyday yokels just trying to survive the space battles. Saturnine is Saturnine. Warhawk was okay to good but I remember little about it. Mortis was dreadful.
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Dec 15, 2021 21:58
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Cat Army 
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Ardent Communist posted:I kind of liked it, because it explained how the loyalists were in such a bad shape during the siege. They tried to have a massive support army coming to their aid, but they didn't realise that old betrayals and enmity would be exploited by horus, and what should have been the equivalent of theoden's army coming over the ridge was instead destroyed during its muster when it was most vulnerable. I have to agree, I actually really enjoyed that entire plotline, especially because it was actually telegraphed pretty early on, with Zenobi and some of the other soldiers talking about how their lives had changed for the worst, after Unification, and how their families used to have far more power before the Emperor defeated them and had them all working to fuel the Great Crusade. I never felt that the twist was all that surprising, personally. I think we often assume that most people revere the Emperor, but I think the average Terran probably feared him more than anything else. Doesn't seem like it would be too hard for Horus to swoop in and tempt people into blaming the Big E for a lot of their woes, and he wouldn't necessarily be wrong - he just also wouldn't be being truthful about all the bad poo poo he's bringing to Terra with him.
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Dec 15, 2021 22:06
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Biplane posted:Gav Thorpe is a Bad Writer.
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Dec 15, 2021 22:47
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euphronius posted:They should never have done the heresy as a book series. Ah well. They should have had a clear plan and timeline instead of 40 books of filler to stretch things out
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Dec 15, 2021 22:49
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The Iron Rose posted:Mortis was dreadful. I had spent quite a while not following warhammer, but this summer when I realized Penitent was finally out, I read it and Saturnine back to back because both of these were very good, i got on a Warhammer high and decided to purchase Mortis it was...a mistake
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Dec 15, 2021 22:51
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Path of the Elder is okay, Gav Thorpe is okay maybe? Counterpoint: Path of the Dark Eldar is so much better. (Go Andy)
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Dec 15, 2021 22:55
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Biplane posted:The crazy wide gap in skill between people like Wraight, ADB and Farrer, and the people like Thorpe, is just insane to me. Nah the vast majority of great writers have zero interest in writing IP fiction. The fact that we have so many great writers writing for BL is what is insane.
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Dec 15, 2021 23:06
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the worst part about the first wall was how the big traitor plan to capture the spaceport was “attack it wrong, on purpose, because our enemy thinks we’re smart so if we act stupid it will defeat him.”
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Dec 15, 2021 23:16
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the worst part about the first wall was how the big traitor plan to capture the spaceport was “attack it wrong, on purpose, because our enemy thinks we’re smart so if we act stupid it will defeat him.” And it did lol
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Dec 15, 2021 23:46
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Biplane posted:And it did lol The Sherlock Holmes issue. The era defining battle of humanity, enacted by superhuman tacticians and generals, being written by men who are...very much not those things. Writing genius without being geniuses.
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Dec 16, 2021 00:50
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You almost never see well planned and executed battle strategies in military science fiction or fantasy because that might suck out the tension that you can build by pulling a dramatic twist out of your rear end.
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Dec 16, 2021 01:00
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I dunno, it makes a small amount of sense that whereas everyone knows how to fight sieges, and presumably how to defend from them, fighting someone who was trained wrong, as a joke, would be able to make some moves they just wouldn't see coming.
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Dec 16, 2021 01:14
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Ardent Communist posted:I dunno, it makes a small amount of sense that whereas everyone knows how to fight sieges, and presumably how to defend from them, fighting someone who was trained wrong, as a joke, would be able to make some moves they just wouldn't see coming. Imagine I posted that old US military joke here.
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Dec 16, 2021 01:51
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Telsa Cola posted:Imagine I posted that old US military joke here. You did.
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Dec 16, 2021 01:53
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It also reminds me of some quote from ages ago regarding fighting games where professionals can find it difficult to go up against an amateur because they'll do unpredictable things that a professional wouldn't think to attempt and can't predict to counter.
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Dec 16, 2021 02:13
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or the bit from the Gilligans Island movie where the the Harlem Globetrotters are going up against some robots for ownership of the island. The robots were easily winning until the professor suggested they're programed to play basketball but will have no counter to an unorthodox playstyle.
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Dec 16, 2021 02:27
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Chemtrailologist posted:or the bit from the Gilligans Island movie where the the Harlem Globetrotters are going up against some robots for ownership of the island. The robots were easily winning until the professor suggested they're programed to play basketball but will have no counter to an unorthodox playstyle. God drat Men of Iron
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Dec 16, 2021 02:36
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Vadoc posted:It also reminds me of some quote from ages ago regarding fighting games where professionals can find it difficult to go up against an amateur because they'll do unpredictable things that a professional wouldn't think to attempt and can't predict to counter. People used to invite me to poker games in college and I would always try to decline because I don't like playing poker, but they would insist and I would show up and every single time somebody would end up yelling at me because I had no idea what I was doing and I would end up winning a hand that I shouldn't have because I would pretty much just be picking an action at random any time it was my turn.
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Dec 16, 2021 02:41
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I spent a night annoying people by always coming second and getting a share of the pot when playing Poker. I had no idea what I was doing to the point that I even forgot to look at my cards one hand, and I was hyper-caffinated so I was basically a cartoon squirrel joke.
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Dec 16, 2021 02:48
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D-Pad posted:Nah the vast majority of great writers have zero interest in writing IP fiction. The fact that we have so many great writers writing for BL is what is insane. Yeah, to be fair it is pretty cool that BL has even a single book worth reading, let alone how many genuinely good ones there are. When you compare it to other tie -n fiction, BL is pretty much highest tier.
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Dec 16, 2021 03:05
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For sure the miracle of BL is that we have writers like ADB, Brooks, DA participating. Like, by all rights it should be nothing but Gav Thorps and Nick Kymes.
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Dec 16, 2021 08:02
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Lawdog69 posted:Nick Kymes. Hmm I wanted to get Volpone Glory. Should I skip it based on track record? Haven't read anything from him
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Dec 16, 2021 09:13
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Hmm I wanted to get Volpone Glory. Should I skip it based on track record? Haven't read anything from him Keep it that way.
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Dec 16, 2021 10:04
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Despite being terribad authors Kyme and Thorpe are supposed to be the creative directors of BL fiction? I recall reading that in one of the end-blurbs.
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Dec 16, 2021 10:11
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Hmm I wanted to get Volpone Glory. Should I skip it based on track record? Haven't read anything from him If Nick Kyme isn't the worst BL author. Then by God it's not for lack of trying. Avoid.
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Dec 16, 2021 10:20
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Now I'm starting to develop bile fascination and want to see for myself. Is it funny-bad or just dry nonsense
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Dec 16, 2021 10:23
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I'm still finding it hard to believe that Adrian Tchaikovsky is going to write a book for Black Library, he's a legit sci-fi author that in no way needs to write corporate fiction.
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Dec 16, 2021 10:25
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Now I'm starting to develop bile fascination and want to see for myself. Is it funny-bad or just dry nonsense It's just plain bad. Not dry really, just extremely bad prose, pacing, storytelling... all the things you want to be good, or at least entertaining.
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Dec 16, 2021 10:37
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I'm still finding it hard to believe that Adrian Tchaikovsky is going to write a book for Black Library, he's a legit sci-fi author that in no way needs to write corporate fiction. Jean Paul Gaultier was, and still is, a megastar in his own right but he still did Eurotrash.
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Dec 16, 2021 11:28
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Arc Hammer posted:You almost never see well planned and executed battle strategies in military science fiction or fantasy because that might suck out the tension that you can build by pulling a dramatic twist out of your rear end. Part of the issue is the era of warfare that 40k riffs from (WW1 to WW2). The big winning strategies from those periods were either manoeuvre (like the North Africa campaigns or the Eastern front), surprise (either by hitting at a week point like the Ardennes or deception like D Day), or sheer bloody attrition (the trench warfare of WW1 or a lot of the later Eastern front). A seige in this case is a logistical attrition fest with not much that can be done with flaire or brilliance on the ground. All if the brilliance is in the planning. Plus a massive attritional slugfest only broken by things so stupid a superhuman genius would just dismiss it out of hand is right on the themes of 40k and the end of the Heresy.
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Dec 16, 2021 12:00
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I'm still finding it hard to believe that Adrian Tchaikovsky is going to write a book for Black Library, he's a legit sci-fi author that in no way needs to write corporate fiction. Apparently the big draw is the reliable and serious paycheck you are pretty much promised by writing licensed fiction. It's why a lot of authors happily churned out a dozen Star Wars or Star Trek books: The audience is already there, they have money, and they'll give you some too just for showing up and not sucking completely.
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Dec 16, 2021 12:15
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tbh I think Tchaikovsky might just be doing it because he's a british nerd who likes Warhammer https://twitter.com/aptshadow/status/1471250729813917702?s=20
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Dec 16, 2021 12:31
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