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That's fine DS2 is bad.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:53
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Kaathe doesn’t know poo poo about the age of dark. The serpents are just playing both ends. Literally either one of them is just trying to butter you up as “Dark Lord” or “Successor of Gwyn” and give you a big inflated sense of purpose in killing the gods. They’re basically indifferent to the question of ages. Frampt who spends the whole game trying to get you to prolong the Fire is completely on board with you in the Dark Lord ending. The point was to kill the gods.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:55
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Mailer posted:After a series of late nights, and a sale, I did the thing and installed Sekiro again last night. It's a lot more videogame and less brutal dexterity challenge than I was led to believe. It's very, very much not a souls game and finishing it is in doubt, but three bosses and a handful of minibosses in it was a pretty good evening. Sekiro is still Souls-like, though I'd say it's like running Bloodborne with a very specific aggressive saw spear+pistol build exclusively. And yeah the tight timing isn't as intense if you're not trying for perfect parries every time. Mailer posted:The greatest crime is tossing DS2 entirely out instead of sifting out the good qualities it had. DS3 is easily my least-played game in the series despite being the most technically competent. 3 carried forward some of the things from 2 it could implement quickly. The upgrade system in 3 is just a further-improved version of 2. It had 2's Estus Shards and bone-thing-you-burn to improve your Estus. It respected 2 enough to pay tribute to it in a bunch of the dual weapons in the game, even if they didn't want to put the extensive time into going for all the unique moveset combinations powerstancing had. It also furthers the idea that this whole paradigm of light/dark is unsustainable. 2 established that the world could be extended by a lord occupying a throne (and eventually being consumed by it) and now you need to go hunt down 5 of those fuckers to keep the whole state of things crawling along. Still, I'm happy Elden Ring is bringing back something more like powerstancing, plus pushing you to use torch navigation more again. 
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Jan 5, 2022 05:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:3 carried forward some of the things from 2 it could implement quickly. The upgrade system in 3 is just a further-improved version of 2. It had 2's Estus Shards and bone-thing-you-burn to improve your Estus. It respected 2 enough to pay tribute to it in a bunch of the dual weapons in the game, even if they didn't want to put the extensive time into going for all the unique moveset combinations powerstancing had. It also furthers the idea that this whole paradigm of light/dark is unsustainable. 2 established that the world could be extended by a lord occupying a throne (and eventually being consumed by it) and now you need to go hunt down 5 of those fuckers to keep the whole state of things crawling along. Dark Souls 2 did have a very different take on the cycle, implying that it really could go on forever- there's a lot that makes it look like undead really will go to the ruins of Lordran, put on some version of the elite knight armor, and fight reincarnations of the gods to link the fire until the heat death of the universe. It's kind of arguable how many of the similarities with 3 are parallel evolution, given the differences.
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Jan 5, 2022 05:27
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Sum Gai posted:Dark Souls 2 did have a very different take on the cycle, implying that it really could go on forever- there's a lot that makes it look like undead really will go to the ruins of Lordran, put on some version of the elite knight armor, and fight reincarnations of the gods to link the fire until the heat death of the universe. It's kind of arguable how many of the similarities with 3 are parallel evolution, given the differences. The existence of the Untended Graves in DS3 implies that either there are parallel realities or cyclical periods where "chosen undead" reject kindling the flames and an age of dark sets in. Things are quiet for a while, but then the cycle begins anew because light inevitably follows dark. However, the corruption of the darkness seems to seep into things a bit more each time, which leads to problems like the big gross goo monsters in 3, while extending the light requires greater and greater resources to be burned to sustain it. The end of Ringed City demonstrates what this ultimately leads to: a desolate wasteland sapped of all life, where only the jumbled ruins of past cycles remain, slowly collapsing in on one another. And mechanically, I'm sure the DS3 devs were paying attention to things in 2. Like revisiting the dual weapons, dual maces and dual spears were two of the most popular powerstancing builds. Those also happen to both be special double weapon sets implied as being from Drangelic, and then you run into two NPCs in one of the PVP gank zones wearing the DS2 iconic armor, with one wielding the double maces and one wielding the double spears.
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Jan 5, 2022 05:55
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Nuns with Guns posted:The existence of the Untended Graves in DS3 implies that either there are parallel realities or cyclical periods where "chosen undead" reject kindling the flames and an age of dark sets in. Things are quiet for a while, but then the cycle begins anew because light inevitably follows dark. However, the corruption of the darkness seems to seep into things a bit more each time, which leads to problems like the big gross goo monsters in 3, while extending the light requires greater and greater resources to be burned to sustain it. The end of Ringed City demonstrates what this ultimately leads to: a desolate wasteland sapped of all life, where only the jumbled ruins of past cycles remain, slowly collapsing in on one another. I think Untended Graves is more weirdness for its own sake (and borrowing a neat twist from Bloodborne) and doesn't fit that well with Ringed City. Untended Graves implies that the cycle has gotten so tenuous that one time linking the fire just failed outright, and only dark, with the small hope of a rekindling of the fire, eventually, remained; meanwhile the ash waste is more what happens when the fire is never allowed to go out, until it burns the world to cinders and it's not really an age of anything, fire or dark. And that's been locked in as the world's fate ever since Gwyn created the Darksign and the Ringed City, back in prehistory.
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Jan 5, 2022 06:16
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I don't have any bad memories of any of the Souls games. I was frustrated, anxious, trying to get good etc but I loved every minute of them (in hindsight). I have to say my greatest shame was never fighting Manus. I cheesed him with arrows from outside his area.
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Jan 5, 2022 06:25
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My fan theory is that Kaathe and Frampt is the same being, two different ends on a multiple miles long serpent.
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Jan 5, 2022 06:28
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Sum Gai posted:I think Untended Graves is more weirdness for its own sake (and borrowing a neat twist from Bloodborne) and doesn't fit that well with Ringed City. Untended Graves implies that the cycle has gotten so tenuous that one time linking the fire just failed outright, and only dark, with the small hope of a rekindling of the fire, eventually, remained; meanwhile the ash waste is more what happens when the fire is never allowed to go out, until it burns the world to cinders and it's not really an age of anything, fire or dark. And that's been locked in as the world's fate ever since Gwyn created the Darksign and the Ringed City, back in prehistory. There's never anything definitive with these games, so anything's possible and open to a million different readings and I don't mind people taking things different ways. There's two things that heavily imply to me that the Untended Graves are a prior period in the same timeline the player character is in... or at least one shared with other characters in the game at certain points. First, if you wait until the Untended Graves to talk to the Shrine Handmaid, and then talk to her for the first time in Firelink Shrine, her opening line of dialog changes. Normal dialog: quote:A pleasure to make your acquaintance, Ashen One. Dialog if she met you in the Untended Graves first: quote:Oh thou'rt... Oh, no, 'tisn't anything Ashen One. Which seems to indicate she recognizes you and therefore has memories from that period of time by the time you meet her in Firelink. The second is the presence of Grundyr in the Graves. His soul says this: quote:Once, a champion came late to the festivities, and was greeted by a shrine without fire, and a bell that would not toll. Then his armor says: quote:Ancient chest piece of a set of cast iron armor, belonging to Champion Gundyr. So he was supposed to be a Champion of Ash like you, and possibly ascend to being a Lord, but he woke up too late... or too early. And "someone" bested him in combat as he waited there, anchoring his soul to the coiled sword, which is how you find him at the start of the game. And by the time you find him then, he's in a much degraded state, corrupted by the black humanity goo. Overall, it appears to indicate that there was at least one age of dark before the current state of the world. And we also know for certain there's been multiple fire-linkings, too, because the Soul of Cinder has absorbed the abilities of multiple different types of warriors over time. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 06:41
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ymgve posted:My fan theory is that Kaathe and Frampt is the same being, two different ends on a multiple miles long serpent. Kaathedog
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Jan 5, 2022 06:43
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I always took Untended Graves and Gundyr to be a stable-ish time loop. You find your way back because of time converging, defeat Gundyr, which leaves him unable to link the fire and stuck there until you kill him at the start of the game.
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Jan 5, 2022 08:56
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Yeah I took it like the Last Giant/Giant Lord in DS2 where the Last Giant is so pissed when he sees you because you defeated him back in the memory.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:02
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does anyone know if anyone during the network test found the caestus or any fist weapons I want to punch
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Jan 5, 2022 15:04
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Babe Magnet posted:does anyone know if anyone during the network test found the caestus Nah I don’t think there are any fist weapons in the CNT
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Jan 5, 2022 15:18
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I always liked DS2's take on the Chaos flame as an ever-expanding nightmare that exists outside the cycle more than DS3's take on it as a dead end that is slowly fading from the world.
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Jan 5, 2022 16:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:Yeah I took it like the Last Giant/Giant Lord in DS2 where the Last Giant is so pissed when he sees you because you defeated him back in the memory. I don't know that really needed an explanation- he's a giant, you're a human, he doesn't need much more reason to get angry besides that. Also it's not really clear if the memories really involve time travel instead of being something like the Hirata Estate, which among other things lets you kill people who are alive in the present. RatHat posted:Nah I don’t think there are any fist weapons in the CNT You can find videos of people using bare hands, though. Those were definitely in.
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Jan 5, 2022 17:35
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Sum Gai posted:I don't know that really needed an explanation- he's a giant, you're a human, he doesn't need much more reason to get angry besides that. Scholar of the First Sin made it explicit though it's something you could figure out in the initial release (all of the other giants you encounter are much smaller than the Last Giant).
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Jan 5, 2022 17:44
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Sum Gai posted:Also it's not really clear if the memories really involve time travel instead of being something like the Hirata Estate, which among other things lets you kill people who are alive in the present. Nah it's definitely time travel. There's the mentioned Last Giant being the Giant Lord you defeated(and that's why he's so mad when he sees you), you're the reason Alonne disappeared, and there's a few other things as well. You're not changing the present though it's a stable time loop.
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Jan 5, 2022 17:58
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RatHat posted:Nah it's definitely time travel. There's the mentioned Last Giant being the Giant Lord you defeated(and that's why he's so mad when he sees you), you're the reason Alonne disappeared, and there's a few other things as well. You're not changing the present though it's a stable time loop. I know that Scholar made it explicit he was the Giant Lord, but "why does the Last Giant get angry and attack you" wasn't really a burning question the base game left me with- nearly everything does that.
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Jan 5, 2022 18:26
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Sum Gai posted:Also it's not really clear if the memories really involve time travel instead of being something like the Hirata Estate, which among other things lets you kill people who are alive in the present. The second Hirata memory is a fantasy/dream or something but the first one is at least partially real. If you kill the eyepatch guy there, he perma dies and stops being a merchant in the Ashina Outskirts. I don't think it's actual time travel though, just reliving an "actual memory" of Wolf's he repressed.
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Jan 5, 2022 20:49
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Sum Gai posted:I know that Scholar made it explicit he was the Giant Lord, but "why does the Last Giant get angry and attack you" wasn't really a burning question the base game left me with- nearly everything does that. It wasn't "why is he mad" it was "oh that's why he was mad" when you kill the Giant Lord and come across other giants in the game that are much smaller.
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Jan 5, 2022 20:55
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Nuns with Guns posted:The second Hirata memory is a fantasy/dream or something but the first one is at least partially real. If you kill the eyepatch guy there, he perma dies and stops being a merchant in the Ashina Outskirts. I don't think it's actual time travel though, just reliving an "actual memory" of Wolf's he repressed. That merchant in present day says something about remembering seeing Sekiro at Hirata Estate with the exact same facial expression he has now. I took that as a hint that there's some time loopy poo poo going on.
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Jan 5, 2022 21:29
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Nuns with Guns posted:The second Hirata memory is a fantasy/dream or something but the first one is at least partially real. I mean, the second memory has you bring back a blooming Everblossom branch that you need for the journey to the west ending, which is pretty hard to do if it was a fantasy/dream. Could Sekiro have had the branch on his person the whole time and just forgotten about it? No, present day Owl drops the withered version which is very clearly the exact same item, down to the little ribbon on it. Could there be two Everblossom branches, one withered and one blooming? The Divine Dragon is only missing one arm, which implies that the Everblossom tree only lost one branch. Could going back to an old memory and overcoming your fears cause the withered branch to bloom with buddha magic? Proobably not? I think you end up literally burning the withered branch to get the special incense. At the end of the day from soft just loves having really confusing time travel segments in their games I think.
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Jan 5, 2022 22:39
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it's a setting where there are snakes the size of buildings, people are full of centipedes keeping them immortal, and a grandpa hops out of his grandson's neck when he cuts it with the right sword, it doesn't need to make perfect ontological sense
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Jan 5, 2022 22:49
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it's not that confusing the memory is a dream and dreams are real
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Jan 5, 2022 23:20
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Sum Gai posted:I know that Scholar made it explicit he was the Giant Lord, but "why does the Last Giant get angry and attack you" wasn't really a burning question the base game left me with- nearly everything does that. There's mad cause it sees a human, and then there's mad enough to rip itself out of its restraints, tear its own arm off and try to club you to death with it.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:21
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Regarde Aduck posted:it's not that confusing Yeah, I feel like people (especially 'tubers) go out of their way to dissect these things and particularize them into some kind of measureable scientific phenomena and that's just so loving far from the point, which is that they are often beyond true comprehension and can only be fathomed abstractly, especially in Bloodborne. Scientism makes everything boring.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:27
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I'm going to play Elden Ring with a notepad and write down what people say so I can piece together the story. I hope it's as esoteric as dark souls is.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:59
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I thought the 2nd Hirata was a repressed memory of what “really happened”(though Sekiro obviously didn’t kill Owl in reality). Bringing real stuff back from them is just magic
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Jan 6, 2022 00:08
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Yeah, I feel like people (especially 'tubers) go out of their way to dissect these things and particularize them into some kind of measureable scientific phenomena and that's just so loving far from the point, which is that they are often beyond true comprehension and can only be fathomed abstractly, especially in Bloodborne. Scientism makes everything boring. Yes to all of this.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:10
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JBP posted:I'm going to play Elden Ring with a notepad and write down what people say so I can piece together the story. I hope it's as esoteric as dark souls is. Im going to murder the level-up NPC before finishing the game
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Jan 6, 2022 00:19
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RatHat posted:I thought the 2nd Hirata was a repressed memory of what “really happened”(though Sekiro obviously didn’t kill Owl in reality). Bringing real stuff back from them is just magic This is how I took it as well. OR Owl put the other memory in your head to cover his transgression
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Jan 6, 2022 00:20
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Yeah, I feel like people (especially 'tubers) go out of their way to dissect these things and particularize them into some kind of measureable scientific phenomena and that's just so loving far from the point, which is that they are often beyond true comprehension and can only be fathomed abstractly, especially in Bloodborne. Scientism makes everything boring. It can be fun to sit down and dissect things and apply some kind of ontological rigidity in the sense that you are further reflecting on the plot and story; possibly realising something you hadn’t before, and most importantly “wondering”…but on the other hand you get people who go full two different notes on the xylophone and make 7 hour “refutations” of the game’s coherence. Those people watch Ben Shapiro and fail to make the most minor salient point in casual conversation at any time in their lives
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Jan 6, 2022 00:52
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Leon Sumbitches posted:I started DS2 last month and got stuck inside some giant unfair and unfun windmill full of gank squads, long range missile lobbers, poison urns everywhere, a mimic... Just the worst unfun level design. I beat my head against it over 20 times, learning from my mistakes and making little progresses but hating every second until I finally gave up. The level that comes after it is my least favorite stage from has ever made so maybe you picked a good time to stop. edit: the SotFS version specifically.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:59
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scientific demystification already ruined the natural world over the last 5 centuries the least it can do is leave my vidja lone 
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Jan 6, 2022 01:13
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instead of analyzing the lore of elden ring i'm going to come into any conversation about it saying 'wow the elder scrolls 6 is wilder than i thought it would be'
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Jan 6, 2022 01:17
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Control Volume posted:Im going to murder the level-up NPC before finishing the game I'm playing DS3 and I can't remember poo poo about it so I attacked that big friendly giant but he was fine about it lol
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Jan 6, 2022 01:19
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RatHat posted:I thought the 2nd Hirata was a repressed memory of what “really happened”(though Sekiro obviously didn’t kill Owl in reality). Bringing real stuff back from them is just magic The first Hirata Estate is the memory of Wolf, who found Kuro, killed Madame Butterfly, and got backstabbed by Owl. The second Hirata Estate seems to involve Owl’s memories of the night, and the fight is Wolf not getting backstabbed because dream magic weirdness.
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Jan 6, 2022 05:10
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i put my brain into crystal lizard mode and i let all of the souls dialog just wash over me, barely comprehending it or even remembering it, and it owns. i love it
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Jan 6, 2022 05:39
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Elden Ring’s story does seem a lot more straightforward than most of From’s games
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Jan 6, 2022 06:11
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