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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Aulë was very good at what he did, but all things considered, I wouldn't trust him. Sure, he made the the coolest race and the world. But he also made Sauron and Saruman and balrogs. Stop while you're ahead, Aulë. i don't think that the maiar were made by the valar, they were just lesser spirits than valar and served them
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Feb 2, 2022 20:07
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he’s the god of lighting poo poo on fire and hitting it with a hammer. of course he’s gonna attract a few rowdy bois
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Feb 2, 2022 20:07
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One of the listeners to this family story time reading of the books is currently convinced Eowyn is evil and has poisoned them with slow acting drugs.
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Feb 4, 2022 13:56
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Drugs that makes them slow to act or drugs that takes a long time to work?
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Feb 4, 2022 22:47
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Barudak posted:One of the listeners to this family story time reading of the books is currently convinced Eowyn is evil and has poisoned them with slow acting drugs. Meaning Theoden here, or just everyone is being poisoned?
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Feb 5, 2022 01:39
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Everyone who drank from the cup she served served at the final banquet in Edoras, so Theoden, Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, Eomer. They're thinking they'll suddenly keel over in the middle of this battle of Helm's Deep.
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Feb 5, 2022 06:26
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Barudak posted:One of the listeners to this family story time reading of the books is currently convinced Eowyn is evil and has poisoned them with slow acting drugs. why
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Feb 5, 2022 09:15
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kids are stupid
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Feb 5, 2022 09:15
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indigi posted:kids are stupid What if I told you if this listener is a grandparent to another listener. Another side of the family are all in on the idea that Aragorn is going to kill Denethor and thats how the ring has corrupted him to claim his divine right but thats at least tenously arguable. Wormtongue was a traitor, but might not have been alone and Eowyn would inherit the throne with Theoden and Eomer dead, and she acted weird when giving them the cup to drink from. Edit: We have to pause a lot reading so we can do simul translations to chinese and thats been another whole hassle because trying to explain what a bivouac is or the nuance between valley and sward and grassland in rohan has been a thing. At least the Rohirrim vs. Eorlingas thing was easy to explain. Barudak fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Feb 5, 2022 |
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Feb 5, 2022 09:23
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oh, an adult reading this as treacherous royal drama makes a lot more sense
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Feb 5, 2022 09:30
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Yeah the kids are like "Aragorn is awesome and blam blam gandalf". Gimli is a little too clever for them sometimes but hes such an excellent foil for the dwarves in the hobbit its fantastic for me at least even if they've struggled with that transition of dwarves. Born to Die Middle-earth is a gently caress Kill Em All 2931 I am a Numenor 410,757,864,540 DEAD ORCS
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Feb 5, 2022 09:45
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Barudak posted:What if I told you if this listener is a grandparent to another listener. Another side of the family are all in on the idea that Aragorn is going to kill Denethor and thats how the ring has corrupted him to claim his divine right but thats at least tenously arguable. Tolkien-chinese translating sounds fascinating. How do you handle the songs? Do the hobbit names sound ridiculous in other languages still? I don’t even know what a sward is.
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Feb 6, 2022 02:28
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The songs are hopeless to translate so I just sing em best as I can then my translating family member gives kind of a summary of what happened. One of my english speaking family members practiced boromir's lament enough on guitar to do a version and now some of the kids are using that as a lullaby. The hobbit names sound stupid, but like, they also are stupid and chinese is full of even stupider translations for peoples names. Like Elvis is roughly cat king in chinese and cities often are just phenomically copied over to be nonsense that sounds like the word in that language so Frodo becoming something like "Lucky Dumb Everyone" isn't weird. Swards are short grass grasslands. Tolkein tends to use the word near the foothills of mountains or when discussing farming (it can also mean the top layer of soil). It seems to be used to invoke an idyllic peaceful spot, the dwarven lake Durin reflected in is surrounded by sward, for example, and grasslands in rohan are noted to hahe considerably taller grass reaching up to riders on horsebacks legs so they get grassland not sward. One of the trickiest bits is occasional things like Thrihyrne where hosed if I know if thats a real word in english or not and what it could possibly mean and we gotta stop for a minute and sort that out. The other tricky thing is Gimli who had a lot of fairly complicated jokes that are hard enough to explain to a small kid in English. Barudak fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 05:12
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Elvis being 'cat king' in Chinese is pretty awesome. Old-fashioned oral storytelling is fun like that. Is always interesting to see people make assumptions that seem strange but make sense considering they're expecting a different genre. Though Lord of the Rings itself was deliberately something of a throwback even at the time IIRC.
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Feb 6, 2022 05:28
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Barudak posted:One of the trickiest bits is occasional things like Thrihyrne where hosed if I know if thats a real word in english or not and what it could possibly mean and we gotta stop for a minute and sort that out.
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Feb 6, 2022 08:56
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Presto posted:*Every* name in Tolkien means something. Thrihyrne means "three horns", ie, it's a mountain with three peaks. Of course, but is that an english word and thus should get a chinese translation, like sward or bivouac or coomb, or is it a made up name like Fangorn which can just keep its name and get a phonetic pronunciation. Im probably gonna end up buying a chinese translation at this rate, and Im super keen to see how they translate a lot of Tolkeins rather unique metaphors. Middle-earth itself led to an interesting conversation with chinese speakers since middle land is how you refer to china. Let me tell you about Aragorns elven Jian and the rohan people's ruler, Theoden Khan. Also, what the hell Tolkein am I supposed to think their are apes south of minas tirith in some tropical jungle or is their south earth too???
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Feb 6, 2022 09:23
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Barudak posted:What if I told you if this listener is a grandparent to another listener. Another side of the family are all in on the idea that Aragorn is going to kill Denethor and thats how the ring has corrupted him to claim his divine right but thats at least tenously arguable. The orcs attacking Gondor was a false flag operation orchestrated by Gandalf to put Aragorn on the throne.
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Feb 6, 2022 12:32
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Alhazred posted:The orcs attacking Gondor was a false flag operation orchestrated by Gandalf to put Aragorn on the throne. iirc in the bored of the rings this happened, but then the orcs attacked for real
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Feb 6, 2022 13:39
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Barudak posted:Of course, but is that an english word and thus should get a chinese translation, like sward or bivouac or coomb, or is it a made up name like Fangorn which can just keep its name and get a phonetic pronunciation. Im probably gonna end up buying a chinese translation at this rate, and Im super keen to see how they translate a lot of Tolkeins rather unique metaphors. It’s Anglo-Saxon since the name is supposed to be made up by the Rohirrim. Make up a translation in Classical Chinese lol Barudak posted:Middle-earth itself led to an interesting conversation with chinese speakers since middle land is how you refer to china. Let me tell you about Aragorns elven Jian and the rohan people's ruler, Theoden Khan. Not sure about the jian but Theoden Khan is unironically perfect
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Feb 6, 2022 14:05
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skasion posted:It’s Anglo-Saxon since the name is supposed to be made up by the Rohirrim. Make up a translation in Classical Chinese lol jian is also excellent
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Feb 6, 2022 14:26
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Gandalf = Jiang Tai Gong and Denethor is the Shang Dynasty. We have all come to agree to this, these are basic inarguable facts. I did find it interesting that the soldier counts for battle of helms deep are actually pretty accurate for the medieval european period and very small compared to what you get in most peoples imaginations now a days. Barudak fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 15:16
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Barudak posted:Gandalf = Jiang Tai Gong and Denethor is the Shang Dynasty. We have all come to agree to this, these are basic inarguable facts. The movies just kind of gloss over, aside from one scene, that Helm's Deep involved vichy humans.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:41
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For all the great design the movies had, it really sucks that every army was one huge block of clones. In the books you get the feel that each army is an eclectic group, be it gondorian fiefs or orc tribes. Why is every pissant Rider of Grimbold's house wearing the royal colours? Relatedly, as impressive as the big battles were, it's just huge masses colliding. Tolkien does the work to have basic, believable tactics.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:48
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It is interesting how much tactics Tolkien details in the books, because as a non-military-minded reader, it's easy to just kinda forget. All I remembered about the Battle of Five Armies was Bilbo hitting his head and missing most of it, but when I reread the book, there was all this positioning and maneuvering (none of which were in the movie). There's a blog where a history guy breaks down the tactics of the books and compares to the movies that's an interesting read. https://acoup.blog/tag/lord-of-the-rings/ From a cinematic perspective, it's hard to tell the story of the tactics of a battle without dedicating the whole movie to it, and most directors don't seem to want to depict armies as like complex tools being used in strategies anyways, they want the emotion of chaotic violence or boldly charging into the fray or the spectacle of the sheer unbelievable amount of people. The Lord of the Rings movies were already a major triumph of CGI technology rendering, and I think there was even some kind of procedural AI to render all those individual orcs. Possibly rendering more organized blocks of troops maneuvering tactically would look more artificial. A lot of movies have similarly non-tactical chaotic depictions of war, but it especially fits with how Peter Jackson has like an impressionistic style to his movies, sacrificing detail and texture in favor of showcasing moods.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:58
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I joked about this earlier but like, goddangit I need to go use my chinese media contacts to convince one of them to make a 60-70 episode adaptation
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Feb 7, 2022 02:01
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RIP Hama you were bad at your job but you did it to the bitter end. I wonder if Gimli ever rebuilds helms deep. Who am I kidding of course he does complete with plaque that reads, here on this day in TA 3019 Gimli, First King of the Glittering Caves, killed more orcs than the elven prince of mirkwood Barudak fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 13:09
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Speak "Gimli owned Legolas", and enter
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Feb 7, 2022 17:25
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Barudak posted:RIP Hama you were bad at your job but you did it to the bitter end. The central piece of the keep is an intricate mechanical orc statue that moves every time you wiggle the axe that's embedded in it's head.
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Feb 7, 2022 20:10
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Jazerus posted:Speak "Gimli owned Legolas", and enter 
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Feb 8, 2022 17:44
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I gotta say I love gimlis characterization and his completely wild unceasing tangent about how awesome the caves in helm's deep are until even Gandalf is like "please gimli stop. Please" is such a good bit. Theoden Khan continues to be great and we had to use Qilin as our "a myth you see thats real" and nobody seems to realize I picked that as a portent of his eventual passing. The talk with Gandalf where Gandalf gives a blunt "this is all hosed" is one of the sadder things he says since he's so direct and without any sugar. Kick rear end
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Feb 8, 2022 18:50
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Saruman's enchanted dialog is a nightmare realm of explaining to people (in two languages) that no light can escape from. I lust now only for wizard death
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Feb 17, 2022 18:52
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Barudak posted:Saruman's enchanted dialog is a nightmare realm of explaining to people (in two languages) that no light can escape from. I lust now only for wizard death read this as "Saruman's enchanted dong" at first
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Feb 17, 2022 19:28
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Barudak posted:Saruman's enchanted dialog is a nightmare realm of explaining to people (in two languages) that no light can escape from. I lust now only for wizard death I would be genuinely interested at how the conversations in the ruins of Isengard are phrased in translations of Two Towers, come to think of it.
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Feb 17, 2022 22:44
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Cease to Hope posted:I would be genuinely interested at how the conversations in the ruins of Isengard are phrased in translations of Two Towers, come to think of it.  I've got one version. Any other bits you want? I've never sat down and read the whole thing. I get into Fellowship and realize I kinda want the JRRT voice. Could be fun to compare parts. Also I loving love this tiny full six books copy printed on bible paper. That's the ideal binding for LotR imo. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 00:01
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Sylvebarbe!! Love it If you’re taking requests can you find the bit where Saruman is just owning Theoden? “What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek!” skasion fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 00:09
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skasion posted:Sylvebarbe!! Love it Yeah any of it. Give me a few days or so but having never properly read the french version, I'd love to actually sit down and compare it to the original in good parts. French is so similar to english that I expect it's not nearly as interesting as say, arabic or russian, but I bet there is poo poo in there. Especially with names: Meriadoc "Merry" Brandybuck is so intended to invoke a feeling by his name. I hope there are translations full of Tolkien nerds that went full hog and captured the "old welsh name" "happy" "booze stallion" sorta feel that Tolkien put into his "translated westron" name. The french uses original names except for full-english ones like our friend Sylvebarbe. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 00:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I've got one version. Any other bits you want? This is cool but I do not speak a word of French, so I don't really have any requests other than to explain what they did lol
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Feb 18, 2022 02:45
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Just two thoughts on the scene 1) Gimli's mastery of speechcraft is confirmed here, its such a good trait and it now seems weird to me more dwarven archetype heroes only follow gimli's "its just a scratch" attitude instead of his wit and cleverness, probably because thats easier to demonstrate. 2) Saruman's inability to perceive that other people are not like him, which Gandalf eludes to, is so on point display here its fantastic. Its rare for literature to have an argument over what actual contrition and forgiveness seeking should look like, and how Gandalf is allowed to punish Saruman for his infractions without requiring Saruman to try some secret attack. Its just good life skills here where Gandalf can set clear boundries, ask for what he wants, and then if his needs are unmet sever completely and go no contact.
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Feb 18, 2022 06:10
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skasion posted:Sylvebarbe!! Love it Treebeard as Sylvebarbe is from the old Francis Ledoux translation - I'm partial to this one since it's the one I grew up with, though it had its limits, especially since Ledoux didn't have access to the Silmarillion at the time, leading to a couple of errors - having the Valar as a singular, Galadriel and Elrond's departure being at one point translated as death, etc. It also wasn't in accord with the Hobbit translation, that kept most of the original names. A new translator, Daniel Lauzon, worked on both texts for a new edition that came out in the 2010s. I haven't read it and can't seem to find the text online, though you can compare how the names were translated in both versions here: https://www.tolkiendil.com/tolkien/etudes/correspondances_traductions I'm used to the older one so seeing all these names retranslated is a bit weird, but a new reader will probably be more objective. As for Saruman, here's the Ledoux version: La voix de Saroumane posted:« Des gibets et des corbeaux ! siffla-t-il, et ils frissonnèrent à ce hideux changement. Vieux radoteur ! Qu’est-ce que la Maison d’Eorl sinon une grange couverte de chaume où des bandits boivent dans les relents, pendant que leur marmaille se roule par terre parmi les chiens ? Voilà trop longtemps qu’ils échappent eux-mêmes au gibet. Mais le nœud coulant s’approche, lent à faire peut-être, mais il n’en sera que plus serré et plus dur à la fin. Soyez pendu si vous le voulez ! » Sa voix changea alors à mesure qu’il se maîtrisait lentement. « Je ne sais pourquoi j’ai eu la patience de vous parler. Car je n’ai pas besoin de vous, ni de votre petite bande de galopeurs, aussi rapides dans la fuite que dans l’approche, Théoden Dresseur de Chevaux. Je vous ai offert il y a longtemps un état au-dessus de votre mérite et de votre intelligence. Je vous l’ai offert de nouveau, afin que ceux que vous égarez puissent clairement voir le choix des routes. Vous me répondez par des fanfaronnades et des insultes. Soit. Regagnez vos cabanes !
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Feb 18, 2022 09:25
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https://i.imgur.com/4qjuc80.mp4
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Feb 19, 2022 10:58
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