Comic Book Movies: The day the Batgirl Cried

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movies: The day the Batgirl Cried

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

YOLOsubmarine posted:

Well of course, the police have most of the media carrying their water and running their propaganda. Try to guess what the actual story is here:

When the media acts as police stenographers and reports things entirely from the police point of views, down to using the same language and torturing the passive voice to its breaking point, there�s really not much you can do to change public perception. It doesn�t matter what language you use, you aren�t going to sway enough hearts and minds to matter as long as every newspaper and tv station in the country is uncritically printing police propaganda.

So wait, what was the actual story here?

edit: Just...a terrible page snype. Awful stuff.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 16:29

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 23:56

Guy A. Person: May 23, 2003

thrawn527 posted:

So wait, what was the actual story here?

edit: Just...a terrible page snype. Awful stuff.

The officer shot his wife and killed himself, the headline is implying some third party did this to one of our Hero Cops

# ? Mar 18, 2022 16:50

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

YOLOsubmarine posted:

Well of course, the police have most of the media carrying their water and running their propaganda. Try to guess what the actual story is here:

When the media acts as police stenographers and reports things entirely from the police point of views, down to using the same language and torturing the passive voice to its breaking point, there�s really not much you can do to change public perception. It doesn�t matter what language you use, you aren�t going to sway enough hearts and minds to matter as long as every newspaper and tv station in the country is uncritically printing police propaganda.

this is imo why it's troublesome that there are so many police TV shows. I haven't looked at numbers, but I'd bet cops are the single most commonly depicted profession in fiction, and very little of that focuses on things real life cops do, such as breaking into people's homes in the middle of the night and murdering them in their bed before saying "oops wrong house" and leaving

# ? Mar 18, 2022 16:53

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Guy A. Person posted:

The officer shot his wife and killed himself, the headline is implying some third party did this to one of our Hero Cops

Holy poo poo, that headline left out some crucial loving details.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 17:25

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Remember when they made a Spiderman PS4 game and his dream was to work with the police and become Spider Cop

# ? Mar 18, 2022 17:35

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

A True Jar Jar Fan posted:

Remember when they made a Spiderman PS4 game and his dream was to work with the police and become Spider Cop

No?

# ? Mar 18, 2022 19:38

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

RatHat posted:

No?

https://youtu.be/kTriZDGwfmM

There's a ton of incidental dialogue while you're rounding up drug dealers and repairing police surveillance towers

# ? Mar 18, 2022 20:00

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

Karloff posted:

NOPE! Do a little reading on the Met to open up a tidal wave of horrors. It has been a central news item for the last year in the UK due to particulary recent horrible events which is outside the remit of this thread to discuss. But that is just one of an avalanche of scandals and corruption.

Huh. Well, to be fair I took my "country list" from a police killing civilians list and the UK had been one whose number were into the single digits.

Here's what I used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country#2010s%5C

So I didn't do in-depth research on the subject. Still, WTF is going on in Brazil and Venezuela?

Everyone fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Mar 18, 2022

# ? Mar 18, 2022 20:04

The Modern Leper: Dec 25, 2008; You must be a masochist

Everyone posted:

Huh. Well, to be fair I took my "country list" from a police killing civilians list and the UK had been one whose number were into the single digits.

Here's what I used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country#2010s%5C

So I didn't do in-depth research on the subject. Still, WTF is going on in Brazil and Venezuela?

Much like COVID, you're missing most of the story if you're only looking at deaths.

On-topic:
So is Eternals basically dead as a wing of the MCU? Will we ever see Harry Styles as Eros in his own crazy adventure?

# ? Mar 18, 2022 21:14

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The Modern Leper posted:

Much like COVID, you're missing most of the story if you're only looking at deaths.

On-topic:
So is Eternals basically dead as a wing of the MCU? Will we ever see Harry Styles as Eros in his own crazy adventure?

Angelina Jolie has said there will be a sequel, but nothing official yet. I'm sure they will get a second movie and even if they don't, then they will work them in to other movies.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 21:19

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

A True Jar Jar Fan posted:

https://youtu.be/kTriZDGwfmM

There's a ton of incidental dialogue while you're rounding up drug dealers and repairing police surveillance towers

Spider Cop was a joke noir thing he made up to annoy a cop, not his actual real motivation.

Also his cop friend turned into a murderous vigilante cop so Peter didn't exactly have great taste in friends.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 21:26

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

ImpAtom posted:

Peter didn't exactly have great taste in friends.

Peter Parker in a nut shell

# ? Mar 18, 2022 21:27

teagone: Jun 10, 2003; That was pretty intense, huh?

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Angelina Jolie has said there will be a sequel, but nothing official yet. I'm sure they will get a second movie and even if they don't, then they will work them in to other movies.

if Ant-Man can get two sequels, Eternals can get at least one.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 21:28

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

ImpAtom posted:

Also his cop friend turned into a murderous vigilante cop so Peter didn't exactly have great taste in friends.

This I actually don't remember, was it a DLC thing?

It was just busy work and not really part of the story but "beat the poo poo out of all the drug dealers to earn Hero Points" just feels gross.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 22:55

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

A True Jar Jar Fan posted:

This I actually don't remember, was it a DLC thing?

It was just busy work and not really part of the story but "beat the poo poo out of all the drug dealers to earn Hero Points" just feels gross.

Yeah, she goes full serial killer in the DLC. You solve a series of mysteries that lead back to her

# ? Mar 18, 2022 22:57

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

ImpAtom posted:

Yeah, she goes full serial killer in the DLC. You solve a series of mysteries that lead back to her

Well that sounds a lot more interesting than anything to do with her in the main game! I got open world fatigue too fast to want to look into the DLC

# ? Mar 18, 2022 23:02

KVeezy3: Aug 18, 2005; Airport Music for Black Folk

Everyone posted:

It does. I'd just like to see some kind of solution/suggestion that goes beyond "Wahhhh! Cops Suck!"

Sure, some of them do. A lot of them do. So what should we do instead? I admit to being a capitalist/democracist because I haven't seen any other economic/political structure that doesn't seem to require human beings to better/more moral/wiser/etc on a constant basis than human beings would be willing to be.

The �Abolish/Defund/Divest the Police� movement�s goal isn�t to wake up to the same world tomorrow, but with no cops, but to critique the police as an entity in order to generate a broader left-wing narrative such that it unites and strengthens other projects, of which are largely isolated/disconnected. As well you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of the police, both historically and materially.

To push back a bit on your Hobbesian view of human nature, here are some excerpts from Alex Vitale's The End of Policing:

quote:

The police exist to keep us safe, or so we are told by mainstream media and popular culture. TV shows exaggerate the amount of serious crime and the nature of what most police officers actually do all day. Crime control is a small part of policing, and it always has been.

Felony arrests of any kind are a rarity for uniformed officers, with most making no more than one a year. When a patrol officer actually apprehends a violent criminal in the act, it is a major moment in their career. The bulk of police officers work in patrol. They take reports, engage in random patrol, address parking and driving violations and noise complaints, issue tickets, and make misdemeanor arrests for drinking in public, possession of small amounts of drugs, or the vague �disorderly conduct.� Officers I�ve shadowed on patrol describe their days as �99 percent boredom and 1 percent sheer terror��and even that 1 percent is a bit of an exaggeration for most officers.

�

I grew up on shows like Adam-12, which portrayed police as dispassionate enforcers of the law. Hollywood, in the sixties and seventies, was helping the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) manufacture a professional image for itself in the wake of the 1965 Watts riots. Today, we are awash in police dramas and reality TV shows with a similar ethos and purpose. Some are more nuanced than others, but by and large these shows portray the police as struggling to fight crime in a complex and at times morally contradictory environment. Even when police are portrayed as engaging in corrupt or brutal behavior, as in Dirty Harry or The Shield, it is understood that their primary motivation is to get the bad guys.

It is largely a liberal fantasy that the police exist to protect us from the bad guys. As the veteran police scholar David Bayley argues,

The police do not prevent crime. This is one of the best kept secrets of modern life. Experts know it, the police know it, but the public does not know it. Yet the police pretend that they are society�s best defense against crime and continually argue that if they are given more resources, especially personnel, they will be able to protect communities against crime. This is a myth.

�

The reality is that the police exist primarily as a system for managing and even producing inequality by suppressing social movements and tightly managing the behaviors of poor and nonwhite people: those on the losing end of economic and political arrangements. Bayley argues that policing emerged as new political and economic formations developed, producing social upheavals that could no longer be managed by existing private, communal, and informal processes. This can be seen in the earliest origins of policing, which were tied to three basic social arrangements of inequality in the eighteenth century: slavery, colonialism, and the control of a new industrial working class. This created what Allan Silver calls a �policed society,� in which state power was significantly expanded in the face of social upheavals and demands for justice. As Kristian Williams points out, �The police represent the point of contact between the coercive apparatus of the state and the lives of its citizens.� In the words of Mark Neocleous, police exist to �fabricate social order,� but that order rests on systems of exploitation�and when elites feel that this system is at risk, whether from slave revolts, general strikes, or crime and rioting in the streets, they rely on the police to control those activities. When possible, the police aggressively and proactively prevent the formation of movements and public expressions of rage, but when necessary they will fall back on brute force. Therefore, while the specific forms that policing takes have changed as the nature of inequality and the forms of resistance to it have shifted over time, the basic function of managing the poor, foreign, and nonwhite on behalf of a system of economic and political inequality remains.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 23:22

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

ImpAtom posted:

Spider Cop was a joke noir thing he made up to annoy a cop, not his actual real motivation.

Also his cop friend turned into a murderous vigilante cop so Peter didn't exactly have great taste in friends.

Spider-Man beating up drug dealers felt wrong in the game though. Morrison had a good point during their Batman run that you kinda break Batman once he�s dealing with petty crime and I think that applies to most superheroes.

# ? Mar 18, 2022 23:47

hiddenriverninja: May 10, 2013; life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

ImpAtom posted:

Spider Cop was a joke noir thing he made up to annoy a cop, not his actual real motivation.

Also his cop friend turned into a murderous vigilante cop so Peter didn't exactly have great taste in friends.

Fun fact, Spider-Cop got canonized as part of some Spiderverse shenanigans:

# ? Mar 19, 2022 00:20

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

The only version of Spiderman to get consistently praised by the Daily Bugle

# ? Mar 19, 2022 00:29

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Just give me a Tom Hardy Venom game where he gets to eat cops and Elon Musks

# ? Mar 19, 2022 01:16

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

KVeezy3 posted:

The �Abolish/Defund/Divest the Police� movement�s goal isn�t to wake up to the same world tomorrow, but with no cops, but to critique the police as an entity in order to generate a broader left-wing narrative such that it unites and strengthens other projects, of which are largely isolated/disconnected. As well you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of the police, both historically and materially.

To push back a bit on your Hobbesian view of human nature, here are some excerpts from Alex Vitale's The End of Policing:

Even accepting all of that as truth, what do you want to do about it? And bear in mind that any solution you propose has to at least be acceptable to a majority (and likely a large majority) of the American populous.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 02:51

void_serfer: Jan 13, 2012

Why are libs so smug about being dumb and evil?

why are libs---

never mind, lol

Everyone posted:

Even accepting all of that as truth, what do you want to do about it? And bear in mind that any solution you propose has to at least be acceptable to a majority (and likely a large majority) of the American populous.

This was answered here, already

ImpAtom posted:

More to the point police are notably awful about solving rape case. It isn't police vs rapist, it is frequently police support rapist. Cops are sometimes more dangerous than no help at all.

Like Police as we know them are a fairly modern construct. Even if you think law enforcement is critical you could reduce the need tremendously with good social services and mental health.

void_serfer fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Mar 19, 2022

# ? Mar 19, 2022 03:22

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Everyone posted:

Even accepting all of that as truth, what do you want to do about it? And bear in mind that any solution you propose has to at least be acceptable to a majority (and likely a large majority) of the American populous.

Now do slavery.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 03:27

void_serfer: Jan 13, 2012

"Populism works!" said the Biden voter

# ? Mar 19, 2022 03:38

Sri.Theo: Apr 16, 2008

loving hell isn�t there already a thread on this in D&D?

# ? Mar 19, 2022 11:24

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

void_serfer posted:

Why are libs so smug about being dumb and evil?

why are libs---

never mind, lol

This was answered here, already

Oh, I'm right there with you. But again the biggest obstacle you face is convincing that large majority to pay for good social service and preventative/treatment mental health (including drug addiction) instead of prisons and more anti-tank vehicles for the police.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 13:39

void_serfer: Jan 13, 2012

Everyone posted:

Oh, I'm right there with you. But again the biggest obstacle you face is convincing that large majority to pay for good social service and preventative/treatment mental health (including drug addiction) instead of prisons and more anti-tank vehicles for the police.

Not really. We just need to turn the Thatcherite programming way the gently caress down and make meaningful change in people's lives.

void_serfer fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Mar 19, 2022

# ? Mar 19, 2022 13:57

SuperMechagodzilla: Jun 9, 2007; NEWT REBORN

Everyone posted:

Oh, I'm right there with you. But again the biggest obstacle you face is convincing that large majority to pay for good social service and preventative/treatment mental health (including drug addiction) instead of prisons and more anti-tank vehicles for the police.

What�s the basis for your belief that �the large majority of people� love paying for prisons?

# ? Mar 19, 2022 14:06

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

What�s the basis for your belief that �the large majority of people� love paying for prisons?

Well, honestly, people don't "love" paying for anything. But so far it's easier to get them on board with prisons/police/etc. than with preventative/curative social programs. At this point we're talking about some kind of mass cult-deprogramming to get people to recognize that paying for a few ounces of prevention is much better than paying for punishment-based "cures" that just make things worse.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 15:10

SuperMechagodzilla: Jun 9, 2007; NEWT REBORN

Everyone posted:

Well, honestly, people don't "love" paying for anything. But so far it's easier to get them on board with prisons/police/etc. than with preventative/curative social programs. At this point we're talking about some kind of mass cult-deprogramming to get people to recognize that paying for a few ounces of prevention is much better than paying for punishment-based "cures" that just make things worse.

It seems that you're just sort-of making things up.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 15:18

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

It seems that you're just sort-of making things up.

In this case he isn't. People like simple solutions. Solving societal problems that lead to crime is complex. A man in uniform who is allowed to shoot criminals is very, very simple.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 16:09

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Jedit posted:

In this case he isn't. People like simple solutions. Solving societal problems that lead to crime is complex. A man in uniform who is allowed to shoot criminals is very, very simple.

I don't know if it's just that. I've gone to a few memorials for shootings and the thing I keep hearing is that the police aren't protecting them. There is this perception that police do right for some people, so we just need them to do what they're doing for some people for all people. There are genuinely people who believe in good police and that if some people can feel protected by the police, why not them? So, the job for police abolitionists and reformists becomes to help them understand the system isn't broken, but working as designed.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:11

SuperMechagodzilla: Jun 9, 2007; NEWT REBORN

Jedit posted:

In this case he isn't. People like simple solutions. Solving societal problems that lead to crime is complex. A man in uniform who is allowed to shoot criminals is very, very simple.

The bad premise is evident in the recourse to 'complexity'. Like, before we do anything, we must first go in and do the very difficult work of educating the masses about the complex idea of 'not being executed by nazis'. Once we get ~80% of the population educated in this way, they will then be smart enough to vote correctly for the proper reforms to the death chambers or whatever.

What you are voicing is a straightforward failure to trust in the people.

People don't fail to choose the "abolish prisons" option because they are stupid, but because it isn't an option at all.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:20

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

People don't fail to choose the "abolish prisons" option because they are stupid, but because it isn't an option at all.

Yea. There's polling out there that has revealed that yeah, if you ask "What should be done with criminals, put them in prison or nothing at all?" people will overwhelmingly say the former. But if you give them a third option for something that doesn't involve imprisonment (like say, community service) then the responses will be a lot more mixed.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:34

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The bad premise is evident in the recourse to 'complexity'. Like, before we do anything, we must first go in and do the very difficult work of educating the masses about the complex idea of 'not being executed by nazis'. Once we get ~80% of the population educated in this way, they will then be smart enough to vote correctly for the proper reforms to the death chambers or whatever.

What you are voicing is a straightforward failure to trust in the people.

People don't fail to choose the "abolish prisons" option because they are stupid, but because it isn't an option at all.

Not before we do anything. Better training, pulling potential officers from the areas to be policed, education and emphasis on deescalation/violence-as-a-last-resort, those are all thing that can (at least theoretically) be done now.

My point isn't about bringing on board the people's whose adults get jailed and whose kids get shot. They're already on board. You also have to bring on board the folks who, for the most part, think those cop shows reflect reality. You have to bring on board a good portion of the people who have built, enable and maintain the current system.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:38

Sandwolf: Jan 23, 2007; i'll be harpo

*cough* there�s gotta be a better thread to talk about this then the �Comic Book Movies� thread

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:39

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

What you are voicing is a straightforward failure to trust in the people.

Have you seen the people lately?

And no, people don't oppose prisons for rehabilitation instead of punishment because there is no such option. They do it because the leopards will never eat their faces.

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:45

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Sandwolf posted:

*cough* there�s gotta be a better thread to talk about this then the �Comic Book Movies� thread

Tell cop poo poo to stop being in comic poo poo

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:46

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 23:56

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

Burkion posted:

Tell cop poo poo to stop being in comic poo poo

Good luck with that. 95% of supers stuff is "These people are the [insert superhero name]. They have to stop [insert supervillain name] from changing the world or otherwise upsetting the current status quo."

# ? Mar 19, 2022 17:53

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movies: The day the Batgirl Cried

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