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why wouldn't you have the hogwarts elves be free and happy! why would you not do that!
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Oct 4, 2023 12:28
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:07 |
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It's notable in book 2 that Harry listens to Dobby recounting how much it sucks to be a slave and asked how he can help break him out of it. Book 4 Harry has forgotten all of that and was fine with how house elves were slaves. Dude didn't even get mad about how Winky was publicly fired and how wretched she was about it. The fact that Harry never once connects the idea of house elf slavery with how he was forced by the Dursleys to be their glorified servant as a small child is just insane. It just adds credence to the idea that Rowling copies elements from other media without stopping to think how it would fit in the world she's creating.
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Oct 4, 2023 12:31
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And she doesn't introduce widespread slavery to criticise it. She introduces slavery so she can parody social justice activists!
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Oct 4, 2023 12:51
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look, you give a big group of house elves freedom and the entire system comes crashing around your ears. It's Tea time. There is the promise of delicious finger sandwiches, scones with clotted cream and jam, cakes and pastries but now there is no fare to be had. Without the mid-afternoon caffeine and nutrient boost, a solid several hours of decent work is out the window. This spreads, and a large portion of wizard society shuts down early. Hexed toilets go undehexed, petty criminals go unarressted, the bank is still open but goblins are unharassed while counting wizard gold. Tens-of-thousands of wizard bucks go unspent and merely sit there in the big rear end vaults guarded by dragons. The economy slows. We enter a recession. Is that the world you want to live in?!
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Oct 4, 2023 13:27
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nice try but i recognise a transcript of rishi sunak's speech at the tory party conference when i see one
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Oct 4, 2023 13:36
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:All of the manual labor is done by magical slaves - or golems if you want to avoid the moral dimension - Why would that change the moral dimension?
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Oct 4, 2023 14:34
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In the last meeting of the ICoW, a policy was agreed upon to regressively revalue the galleon, with increased interest rates on borrowing. The Ministry of Magic, with the blessing of the ICoW, is instituting a policy of streamlining. The Minister of Magic stated "We will be increasing efficiency, cutting business, inheritance and capital gains taxes, and relaxing rules on product standards." Conversely, an anonymous Ministry Insider had this to say about the new scheme: "Look, I'm not one to go against policy, and clearly things need to change, but without enforcement of product standards like cauldron bottom thickness, it could be a disaster. A decade ago we had international imports that were too thin and leaks increased by 3%! I can tell you that one Bartemous Crouch would not have allowed this nonsense to stand."
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Oct 4, 2023 14:42
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YaketySass posted:Why would that change the moral dimension? Depends on whether you think golems are self-aware or just Turing-incapable robots I guess?
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Oct 4, 2023 14:48
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Let's see what a better author has to say about it:
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Oct 4, 2023 15:13
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I believe he said that WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN.
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Oct 4, 2023 16:38
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BigglesSWE posted:https://twitter.com/je_somerton/status/1707220016960000071?s=46&t=G1x8XWIwrNxUQoXItlkh2w i dont even hate the first couple books but like lol at the first sentence being a magical poo poo. its not bad but yeah no. amigolupus posted:It's notable in book 2 that Harry listens to Dobby recounting how much it sucks to be a slave and asked how he can help break him out of it. Book 4 Harry has forgotten all of that and was fine with how house elves were slaves. Dude didn't even get mad about how Winky was publicly fired and how wretched she was about it. i think thats kinda the issue i have as the books go on. there is lots of whimsy and but also empathy towards the hosed up parts of that society. by 4 when rowling commited to grim dark. that poo poo went away.
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Oct 4, 2023 17:10
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TPS started with the Vernon pov and was pretty fun I honestly think that one is pretty good for young readers. It’s just tainted by Rowling and « magic boarding school » is just not that unique a concept. Gonna but kids poo poo like Pratchett or the Hobbit where I don’t gotta pay a shithead
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Oct 4, 2023 17:46
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i dont even hate the first couple books but like lol at the first sentence being a magical poo poo. its not bad but yeah no.
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Oct 4, 2023 17:47
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Sydin posted:Harry gets less emotionally mature as he he physically matures. Like in book one he's actually really good about navigating complex social situations, particularly for an 11 year old. Meanwhile later books Harry is an asocial rear end in a top hat who even when he correctly deduces people's feelings does not give a poo poo. Book 1 Harry happily spends a ton of his own money buying a load of sweets off the Hogwarts Express lunch trolley and shares them freely because he wants to try and help Ron feel better about being poor and stuck with some dogshit leftover sandwiches his mom made him. Book 4 and beyond Harry in the same situation would have an inner monologue about how embarrassed he is about the huge wealth gap between himself and Ron and also wow those sandwiches really do look like crap, but then not act on it at all and just sulk about how annoying it is when Ron gets like this. i mean part of that is he is like a 17 year old teenager type deal. I was a selfish dickhead when i was a that age. I think the problem is the world tries to make it self more dark(widespread slavery thats just accepted, nazis on the rise that arnt just token inbred bully) but it never doesnt stop treating alot of the world building as weird whimsical joke, Like harry potter is the type of fantasy thats very much a patiche of various different fantasy/myths/etc, like shrek or witcher or last unicorn or etc. except all of those pieces of media actually do something with the pastichie and play with it and deconstruct it. Harry potter, just keeps trying to "OOOOH WONDERS UPON WONDERS" poo poo but it grows stale after book 3 when you get more detailed with the world building but never idk build upon it outside weird magic poo poo. like witcher books and games sorta treats it like the mundane, hell half the reason witchers are dying out is because armor and tech has advanced enough that you can arm a bunch of soldiers and kill a griffon and only lose half of them. there are tons of "oh poo poo uknown magic/monster poo poo" but alot of the world has taxonomies and poo poo. people go to college for degrees in monster studies and poo poo. i feel like harry potter needed to either lean into the "magical mundaity/horror of the magical mundaity" with the heavy world building she wanted OR she goes the beagle route and focuses on characters and themes and emotions and the "mysteriousness" of magic". Edgar Allen Ho posted:TPS started with the Vernon pov and was pretty fun i agree with this. its why i think the first 2 genuinly hold up. the vernon poo poo is great because he is rich upper middleclass dickhead who reads the sun and then he starts seeing all this weird poo poo happen and suddenly he has this kid at his front door with a letter and so he just abuses the kid because he is dipshit. like yeah you can see the beginnings of the issues with the series, but like that all was fine when it was roald loving dahl books. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 4, 2023 |
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Oct 4, 2023 18:13
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The thing with stuff like Hogwarts having its own service of House Elves is that it doesn't even affect the plot: all the uglier aspects of wizard society is just there as texture, showing that Harry is increasingly aware of the bad parts of a world he used to think of as just an escape. The Dementors (or details like the comically racist statue mentioned when they go to the Minister of Magic) are really on-the-nose details that poo poo's hosed up, it's just that nothing comes from that besides the protagonists tsk-tsk-ing to themselves about how they're slightly better than this. Every actual ethical choice has to be on the level of individual relationships and done through short symbolic moments, which is why Harry freeing Dobby is good and shows "what sort of person he is" but Hermione doing activism on a larger scale is ridiculed.
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Oct 4, 2023 21:08
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YaketySass posted:The thing with stuff like Hogwarts having its own service of House Elves is that it doesn't even affect the plot: all the uglier aspects of wizard society is just there as texture, showing that Harry is increasingly aware of the bad parts of a world he used to think of as just an escape. yeah. like i think the issue is less "lol libs"(thought has some merit) and more that rowling wanting to balance grimdark poo poo with the roald dahl wackyness/imagination. like i very good microcosim of the issues are with the beasts movie. the first one is genuinly good and its probably my favorite harry potter thing. it has a bunch of issues and tonal poo poo but the main character stays a good person through out and alot of it is him having weird wacky animal adventures. the main plot is simple and while their is darker poo poo in the background. its not overwelming. in 2, its just overly and stupidly grimdark and up its own rear end. hell they straight up murder a child. and most of it just doesnt go anywhere. i think the issue is that the world can have dark undertones and can be left unremarked upon but once it goes grim dark and doesnt have like 40k type excuses. you need to have the characters at least point poo poo out.
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Oct 4, 2023 21:32
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Sydin posted:Harry gets less emotionally mature as he he physically matures. Like in book one he's actually really good about navigating complex social situations, particularly for an 11 year old. Meanwhile later books Harry is an asocial rear end in a top hat who even when he correctly deduces people's feelings does not give a poo poo. Book 1 Harry happily spends a ton of his own money buying a load of sweets off the Hogwarts Express lunch trolley and shares them freely because he wants to try and help Ron feel better about being poor and stuck with some dogshit leftover sandwiches his mom made him. Book 4 and beyond Harry in the same situation would have an inner monologue about how embarrassed he is about the huge wealth gap between himself and Ron and also wow those sandwiches really do look like crap, but then not act on it at all and just sulk about how annoying it is when Ron gets like this. I'm pretty sure you can trace Harry slowly becoming an asocial rear end in a top hat over the course of the series with how Rowling got rich and became increasingly online throughout the years.
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Oct 5, 2023 07:04
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YaketySass posted:The thing with stuff like Hogwarts having its own service of House Elves is that it doesn't even affect the plot: all the uglier aspects of wizard society is just there as texture, showing that Harry is increasingly aware of the bad parts of a world he used to think of as just an escape. Trying to remember if the comically racist statue was blown up by Voldemort rather than any of the protagonists, cus I think that is maybe what happened? Very funny how at the end of the books they haven't fixed any of that, the only difference is that Harry and co now work in the building with the racist statue
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Oct 5, 2023 11:24
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Kojiro posted:Trying to remember if the comically racist statue was blown up by Voldemort rather than any of the protagonists, cus I think that is maybe what happened? Very funny how at the end of the books they haven't fixed any of that, the only difference is that Harry and co now work in the building with the racist statue I'm going to assume the fandom wiki is being updated by fans sufficiently obsessive to have this right: quote:During the Battle of the Department of Mysteries on 18 June 1996, much of the Atrium was heavily damaged. The floor was gouged and pocketed, the security booth was burned and the fountain largely destroyed. It also participated in the battle when Dumbledore brought the statues to life for various purposes in his duel with Voldemort. The wizard statue (which had previously had its head blown off by Bellatrix Lestrange) acted as a bodyguard for Harry Potter, the witch pinned Bellatrix to the floor to prevent her from intervening on her master's behalf, the centaur (minus one arm) took a Killing Curse meant for Dumbledore, and the goblin and house-elf figures departed to alert Ministry personnel as to the disturbance, as well as being the only ones to survive largely intact. The head of the wizard was turned into a Portkey by Albus Dumbledore, which sent Harry Potter to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. So Voldemort blew it up, but only because Dumbledore was using it as meatshields, but Voldemort later tore it down and replaced it with a new fashier fountain. Maybe they rebuilt the old racist statue, or maybe they took the liberal approach of replacing the statue while doing nothing about the underlying systemic inequalities and structural power imbalances it represented. Or, since the Kingsley administration canonically pardoned Lucius loving Malfoy, maybe they just left Voldemort's fascist statue in place.
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Oct 5, 2023 13:18
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Dabir posted:And she doesn't introduce widespread slavery to criticise it. She introduces slavery so she can parody social justice activists! I can't remember where I saw it but I saw someone point out that maybe the SPEW thing was less about Rowling's annoyance with activists and more about her annoyance with unions, which if true would be so incredibly 
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Oct 5, 2023 16:10
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I'm going to assume the fandom wiki is being updated by fans sufficiently obsessive to have this right: They should have kept the throne statue but added a Fearless Girl one in front
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Oct 5, 2023 16:42
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the statue is so insanely on the nose that it's kind of unbelievable that the absolute nothing resolution of the story leaves it hanging
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Oct 6, 2023 07:25
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it's good you're all finally agreeing Vernon is the best character. Because he is. Perhaps in all of literature.
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Oct 6, 2023 10:42
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YaketySass posted:Why would that change the moral dimension? Golems are generally assumed to be an depicted as mindless automatons. They are unambiguously non-sapient robots in most fiction, not a race of beings that enjoy being slaves. In which case the metaphor is one of automation and not slavery. But yeah, Pterry's take is of course beautiful and powerful and WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN is something that will stay with me until I die because WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN. But in many ways Pterry was the platonic ideal of an anti-Rowling. She unthinkingly regurgitates tropes without understanding them, Pratchett played with them in clever ways even when not deconstructing them. She is a fascist monster, and Terry spent his last days still writing stories that screamed at the top of their lungs "PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE AND WONDERFUL AND DIVERSE AND YOU MUST FIX YOUR HEART OR DIE" and god.
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Oct 6, 2023 12:57
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bertha jorkins my peanits e: interesting thread title ungulateman fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 13:16
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is harry potter a halloween movie? should harry potter be in the halloween forum?
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Oct 6, 2023 13:36
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yes something bad always happens to harry on halloween because rowling is lazy and everything happens near holidays
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Oct 6, 2023 13:38
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I'm going to assume the fandom wiki is being updated by fans sufficiently obsessive to have this right: so does all the harry potter poo poo canonically take place in like 1998? like i guess that makes sense.
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Oct 6, 2023 14:26
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so does all the harry potter poo poo canonically take place in like 1998? like i guess that makes sense. Harry's Nth year at Hogwarts in the Nth book canonically begins in 199N, though I don't think anything in the books specifies this until Harry visits his parents' graves in the last book and the marker lists the year of their deaths. Apparently this creates a minor chronology error where in an earlier book, Dudley gets a Playstation several months before its release.
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Oct 6, 2023 15:48
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Harry's Nth year at Hogwarts in the Nth book canonically begins in 199N, though I don't think anything in the books specifies this until Harry visits his parents' graves in the last book and the marker lists the year of their deaths. Apparently this creates a minor chronology error where in an earlier book, Dudley gets a Playstation several months before its release. The timeline gets established in book 2 when they go to Nearly Headless Nick's 500th Deathday party and the cake says he died in 1492. I think that's where all the chronology is derived from until the last book has the parent's graves yeah.
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Oct 6, 2023 16:14
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Harry's Nth year at Hogwarts in the Nth book canonically begins in 199N, though I don't think anything in the books specifies this until Harry visits his parents' graves in the last book and the marker lists the year of their deaths. Apparently this creates a minor chronology error where in an earlier book, Dudley gets a Playstation several months before its release. Dudley would be type to scream the gamer words while playing on his Xbox as a teen, but would do a lot of growing up and realize it was lovely of him to do so and be genuinely embarrassed and remorseful.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:40
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Asgerd posted:Let's see what a better author has to say about it: Carrot Ironfoundersson posted:If a golem is a thing then it can't commit murder... If a golem can commit murder, then you are people, and what is being done to you is terrible and must be stopped. Terry put more thought and heart into an average sentence than JK does in an entire book.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:57
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Harry's Nth year at Hogwarts in the Nth book canonically begins in 199N, though I don't think anything in the books specifies this until Harry visits his parents' graves in the last book and the marker lists the year of their deaths. Apparently this creates a minor chronology error where in an earlier book, Dudley gets a Playstation several months before its release. Boy I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder
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Oct 6, 2023 22:03
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Jazerus posted:yes something bad always happens to harry on halloween because rowling is lazy and everything happens near holidays threadus shitmovio
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Oct 7, 2023 00:16
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Harry Potter and the Samhain Sacrifice
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Oct 7, 2023 06:40
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Hairy Pooper: the Gargler of Cock and Balls
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Oct 7, 2023 07:14
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Halloween is the anniversary of the defeat of Voldemort, as well as the deaths of Harry's parents, and nobody brings that up ever. It wouldn't be so weird if the books didn't have something important happen on Halloween for four books straight before Rowling got tired of doing that. It doesn't seem to be something she decided on later, either, since the opening chapter of the first book is implied to take place at the beginning of November. Actually, the death of Wizard Hitler 2 feels more like something that happened in Harry's personal backstory than an important historical event that matters to anyone else. It obviously does matter to everyone else because it's the reason Harry is a celebrity, but that just comes back to being about Harry again. Maybe I'm misremembering.
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Oct 7, 2023 10:41
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we have the right to party all night. With Huff Beer
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Oct 7, 2023 10:52
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harry rarely (if ever?) goes to the halloween bash so maybe all the years he doesn't go it's basically victory in europe day
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Oct 7, 2023 10:57
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:07 |
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Zore posted:The timeline gets established in book 2 when they go to Nearly Headless Nick's 500th Deathday party and the cake says he died in 1492. I think that's where all the chronology is derived from until the last book has the parent's graves yeah. Oooh, I never knew that, thank you! josh04 posted:harry rarely (if ever?) goes to the halloween bash so maybe all the years he doesn't go it's basically victory in europe day I think he only skips it in second year, when he's at Nick's deathday party instead. The other years he's in the great hall for the Halloween feast with everyone else. For a couple of the years, he needs to be there for the setpiece to work (Quirrell running in and saying there's a troll; names coming out of the goblet of fire).
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Oct 7, 2023 14:29
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