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I read that a class actin was filed in CA over this yesterday. I'm really bummed about it. We've got a 2014 TDI jetta that we've loved. I'm not exactly happy with the "don't ever get it updated" angle as driving something that pollutes that bad would grate on me in a bad way. loving hell VW, I really liked that car. 
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Sep 20, 2015 16:13
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fknlo posted:What the hell is the speed limit where you live? It's generally 60-70 on what I drive here and I do a blistering 5 over at most. Hell, on trips to Colorado in winter I'll usually get low to maybe mid 30's with the occasional tank in the high 20's. Yeah, that's winter fuel in cold conditions at 80mph but my buddies GLI doesn't do much worse on the same drive. My wife and I routinely get 40-43mpg driving from NC to Kentucky and NC to Florida. All we really do is stay ~70mph, nothing too special.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:40
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If anything it is just another nail on diesels coffin.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:40
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:
VW would loving dance in the streets if all that came of this was having to pay a few million in damages to small claims settlements that they didn't even bother to send a lawyer to. edit: which is the whole point of class action suits in the first place. It creates a situation where companies can be held liable for loving up and/or screwing customers in a way that isn't dependent upon the customer having the resources (even if that's just having time to go down to small claims court) or inclination to file a suit. Otherwise the math would lean pretty heavily in favor of doing whatever the gently caress and just paying off the small percentage of people who actually have the lawyers and money to file a real suit, and digging in your pockets for change to throw to the people who can only afford small claims but are still stubborn enough to go through with it. edit: CommieGIR posted:Don't worry. Really, the VWs are doing nowhere near the damage the GOP is doing to the environment. It's already been said, but just because other, worse poo poo happens doesn't mean you can't be pissed off at other, lesser bad or stupid poo poo. My wife's purse got stolen a few years back. Just because some other women that day got murdered or raped doesn't mean she couldn't be pissed that her poo poo was taken or feel upset about the whole situation. gently caress the GOP's anti-environmental bullshit, but gently caress VW too. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 13:52
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:
It happens all the time. If some guy is suing you in some county in the middle of gently caress-all for a couple thousand and your lawyer costs a few hundred per hour (plus travel expenses) it's frequently a lot cheaper to just no-contest it. edit: some quick googling shows that in California only 40% of cases that went to small claims court were contested, and that includes everything from angry geeks suing Apple to some guy trying to get his neighbor to fix his lawn after a dog digs it up. I strongly suspect that the corporate defendants are a lot less likely to show up than the dude having a throw-down with someone in his neighborhood. ALso note that that is CA. I'd love to find statistics on what percentage of corporate defendants bother in, say, LA or SF vs. Amarillo, TX. And no, I wasn't saying that a class action wasn't going to happen because small claims, I was saying that small claims is such an easy buy-out for VW that they'd be thrilled with small claims settlements. It's a cheap out. edit: lol, also from the California numbers: 41% where white, 80% were english speaking, and 50% had a university degree. Basically people with the education to know when they're getting hosed and that there is a recourse and the economic position where they can take a day off work. edit x2: haha holy poo poo reading some more a full 21% of the english speaking litigants (and a whopping 28% of the white litigants) had a graduate degree or higher. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 14:26
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BraveUlysses posted:havent seen it posted here, but VWoA is offering buybacks to the dealerships if they end up sitting on an un-sellable car for 60 days they will buy back at a pre-scandal price. Can you post a link to where you got that? I'd like to save that so I have something to point to if my dealer is a dickhead as well.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:40
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borkencode posted:Here's a talk by a couple guys that looked at how the cheating software worked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZSU1FPDiao First 20 minutes is mostly dissing the "management did nothing wrong" stance. Mind giving the tldr? I'm at work and can't watch it.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:15
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Sitting in the dealership now getting my 20k inspection and tdi bribe. The guy activating the cards tried to sell me in getting a new VW loving 
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Jan 2, 2016 16:51
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Bwahahahahaha. The DoJ is suing VW on behalf of the EPA Here is the money shot: quote:The DoJ and the EPA are asking the court to halt the sale of any vehicle that has been identified to include a defeat device and order the company to remedy the situation by fixing the affected cars. In addition, the US says that Volkswagen Group must pay civil penalties of $32,500 per affected car made before 2009 and $37,500 per affected car made after 2009 for each of two violations of the Clean Air Act, as well as between $2,750 and $3,750 for each defeat device found on the affected cars. Finally, US officials are demanding "up to $32,500 per day of violation occurring before January 13, 2009, and up to $37,500 per day of violation occurring on or after January 13, 2009 for violations of Section 203(a)(2) of the [Clean Air] Act.” edit: I'm reading that that totals something like ~$20B in fines. Now, of course it won't actually be that much but it's still a big as gently caress number to start negotiating from. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 22:25
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totalnewbie posted:They have 3-4% of the market, which is not large, but not insignificant (e.g. now-NA-dead Suzuki, Mitsubishi). But my point wasn't that VW has this huge leverage on the DoJ, but rather that there are interests (like you mentioned, Tennessee) that are going to keep the DoJ from going for the jugular. Sure, there are a lot of politicians in Tennessee that would try to cover VW's rear end, but there are also interests who are going to be pretty gun ho for stringing them up by the balls. California, for example, has plenty of politicians with big environmental constituencies that would like to gently caress them over pollution alone. Then you have the places with major cities that can argue a significant impact on their smog from the emissions, and I could see a lot of their representatives pressing the EPA to funnel some of the fine money into harm mitigation in those areas, which basically means money pumped into the local economy. Then you have the fact that there are a poo poo load of people from areas that aren't Tennessee who are involved in making cars that aren't VW. Somehow I suspect that if it comes down to senators trying to leverage the DOJ that the ones from Michigan might have a slightly more compelling argument than the ones from Tennessee. A loss for VW that fucks them in the American market is a win for Ford et al and by extension the plants that produce their cars for the US market. I'm not saying that it won't be negotiated down, but it's way more complex than everyone in DC having a vested interest in keeping VW in the US and not hurting their domestic production too much. edit: I just looked it up. VW employs 1400 in its Tenn. plant. THat's not exactly the backbone of American manufacturing. Also I seem to remember them having a fight with UAW at the end of the year - unions are still politically powerful and if UAW isn't VW's friend but has at least a stable relationship with the domestic manufacturers that's not going to add to VW's political clout. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 16:35
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veedubfreak posted:Eh, as with most every giant fine like this, it'll be tied up in the courts for years before they ever have to spend a penny. I mean Ford and Toyota killed people and got off easier. Sure, but Fort and Toyota didn't purposefully design their cars to kill people in defiance of the "Cars Shouldn't Intentionally Kill People Act of 1972" Being incompetent and killing people is bad, but willfully violating laws and regulations in a systematic way over years is the sort of thing that government lawyers have wet dreams about.
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Jan 5, 2016 19:33
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CommieGIR posted:
My point is that the things Fort and Toyota got called on were not intentional. They were big gently caress ups and they sure did got after them, but what VW did was 100% intentional and with the expressed purpose of bypassing American laws and regulations. From a regulatory standpoint what VW did is a bit more serious than loving up your design in a way that kills people. Maybe not from an ownership standpoint and the consequences are certainly not as bad for the people that bought them, but for lawyers looking to jack a company up there is a lot more to work with if it is an intentional act designed to circumvent inconvenient laws.
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Jan 5, 2016 19:45
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As an aside, is it even realistic to think they might cube the cars? I was always under the impression that they would just resell them to markets that don't have emissions controls. Africa, Asia, etc. gently caress, even Europe if they can get the emissions under their bar but not pass the stricter American standards.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:29
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HatfulOfHollow posted:How does a buyback generally work if that's what happens? Do they just give bluebook value? I bought my 2013 TDI with the intention of driving it for 5 or 6 years after it was paid off. I only owe 10k on it right now because I've been making large payments so I want to understand how screwed I'm going to be. Same boat I'm in.  veedubfreak posted:Heh, obviously if it was as easy to cheat the system, the testing is in fact flawed. SO the fact that they discovered a way to cheat the system means that the cheating was OK? At the end of the day they saw environmental regulations that would impact their profit margin and glorious quest to surpass the Japanese as #1 automaker and went out of their way to bypass them. How you thing that is anything other than bad is loving beyond me. And yeah, a lot of people are pissed at VW. It's funny how dropping $20k+ into something based on a certain set of expectations and then finding out the manufacturer outright lied to you and your thing is now worth far less and stands a good chance of getting shittier performance after it's fixed will make you angry.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:06
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veedubfreak posted:I just get a giggle out of how angry people that aren't even involved with the whole situation seem to be getting. I will agree that there is a lot of shrill bullshit that is just amusing, but it's not like you have to own an affected car to get pissed about this. Environmental regulations are kind of there for the common good, and it's understandable to think a company that is willfully violating them is a piece of poo poo. Even if I didn't own one I still enjoy not having smoggy cities.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:29
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A question about the batteries and the engine start in general on a 2014 Jetta TDI: Last night I was an idiot and left my lights on in a parking garage. The manager of the garage came by with one of those jump-start battery packs to get me going again, but for whatever reason it would not work with my car at all. He said he had just unplugged it, but when I went to turn the car on it would just make a rapid clicking noise and not actually turn over. The battery was entirely dead when he got there with only the most minimal electrical so the fact that i was able to turn the radio on while he had it hooked up seems to indicate that it wasn't an issue with connecting it improperly. After he gave up I phoned a friend and was able to get a jump off of his car with no problem. My wife and I have been thinking about getting one of those battery jump things to stash in the trunk but after this I'm having second thoughts. Is there something about the diesels that make them not work? Do you need a beefier one than you would need to jump a gas car? Or was that garage's jump pack just lovely or out of juice?
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Jan 12, 2016 20:55
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The car has started fine twice since then, so I don't think the battery is hosed.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:51
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I just read that VW is getting sued in the German courts by their larger investors (institutional-grade and the mega-individuals). Basically they are saying that VW had knowledge of its exposure on this emissions cheating long before it became public, so their filings where they outline risks to investors were fraudulent. Note that VW's stock has dropped about 30% since the emissions problems emerged.
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Jan 18, 2016 17:39
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I get an email today at work out of the blue. Some sales manager (call him "Bill") at my VW dealership saying that a friend of his is looking for a TDI Jetta and if I'm interested in selling to give a call. I"m always open to an offer so I phone on lunch. He's not in, but the phone lady says that he sent a few of those out. I say I"m a little skeptical because it's a TDI and she assures me that they've become really popular re-sale because they can't sell them except used these days, it shouldn't be an issue with value, etc. It's time sensitive and it would be best if I came in as soon as possible. After work I head on down and ask for Bill like I was told to. He's not there, but Bob will be happy to take care of me. He's up front that I"m going to lose $3-6k off the value because of the TDI thing and has no idea why I was told otherwise. He takes the info, runs the VIN, and has a manager give me some numbers. While the manager is doing his thing I get to hear Bob tell me about how the diesel thing is no big deal because environmental warming is a scam. I point out the emissions thing is about NOx and he goes off about how smog is really caused by dry climates and construction in big cities. This coming from a dude dressed in tie-dye with a bead curtain over his corner office while Hey Jude was piped over the office was great. Finally the manager comes out and he gives me numbers for my 2014 TDI Jetta with 23k miles on it: $8,500 Can't go higher because of the diesel stop sale which means they can't sell it as a CPO. Godfuckingdamnit VW. I have only myself to blame for believing your phone lady who said it wouldn't be an issue. I wasn't even looking to sell, but christ I shouldn't have even wasted the time driving out to get the offer.
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Feb 26, 2016 00:29
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BraveUlysses posted:Almost hit the 6 month mark, thanks again you loving idiots at VW. Value of my car plunged from 21k to 13k in 6 months. The best part about that article is where they say that the regulators are considering OK'ing partial fixes for the vehicles. Great! Resale would still be hosed but it gives VW an excuse to not buy it back.
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Mar 10, 2016 18:19
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Whelp. Pretty sure the (automatic) transmission just blew on my 2 year old, 23k miles Jetta TDI. Won't shift gears until it's revved to 4k+ and then it jumps down to nothing with an audible crunching noise. Engine light is on, and it's doing that thing where it alternates a flashing wrench while your gear selection flashes as well, which the manual says is VW for "your transmission is hosed, go to the dealer." In other news I am very glad right now that I added the powertrain warranty extension. gently caress VW.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:40
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Bovril Delight posted:Why wouldn't it be covered under your factory warranty? You're right, my wife thought it was only through 20k and I was just pissed and posting without double checking that. Still pissed, but it would have been covered anyway.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:57
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Hey, they should be giving us a loaner, right? The service center is closed but my wife is chatting with some VW thing online (she wanted to see if we could schedule something for tomorrow without having to wait until they open) and they're saying that we can't get a loaner but they can hook us up with a special rate enterprise rental for $30/day.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:15
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The dealership was a lot cooler than the generic VW scheduler thing my wife talked to last night and gave a loaner without much hassle.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:08
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Anecdotally my German built transmission just shat the bed 23k miles in
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Mar 17, 2016 22:53
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CommieGIR posted:True, but unfortunately they won't be able to pay for the loss in value and its an unrealistic expectation. Maybe some sort of long term payment system where they send monthly checks to make up for the loss in value might be possible. All the legal poo poo going on right now seems to imply otherwise. I'm getting pretty frequent email updates from one of the legal groups handling the class action and they're basing basically all of their proposed remunerations on the September 15, 2015 Blue Book values. Pretty much every question they ask about what kind of compensation people would be OK with involves a sliding percentage of that value to compensate the owners for. I don't buy the idea that they flat out couldn't afford it. It's a big company. Cursory googling says they posted 10.85 Billion Euros in profit in 2014. VAG revenue that same year was over 200 loving billion Euros. IIRC they have roughly 500,000 affected vehicles in the US. A lot of the numbers I'm seeing in the lawyer emails involve a payout of ~20% of the 2015 bluebook. Assuming a mean price of 30k per car yields $3 Billion. That's pretty loving hefty but not crushing. Of course things get more expensive if they are forced to buy back some of the affected models. A full buyback of every single car would, by my probably woefully inadequate napkin math, be $15 billion. That's pretty loving nuts, but that's a worst case scenario that's about 50% more than a year's profits. It won't be that bad, of course. Much like the $18B in potential fines the number will be negotiated down by the lawyers. It will be a hit, but we're still talking about numbers that are in the same rough territory as the profits they make annually.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:17
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veedubfreak posted:Companies that have literally killed people due to willful negligence have come out sparkling clean after these sorts of things, The problem with this argument is that even when those companies are negligent and cover it up, they didn't set out to do so from the get go. If your airbag exploded and killed you or your ignition made your car wreck and your family's dead now it's awful, but no engineer sat down one day on the command of some VP of whatever to build a car that kills people. VW engineered their cars specifically to bypass the EPA regs. It was 100% intentional from beginning to end. It wasn't the result of negligently not giving a poo poo or a manufacturing or engineering fuckup. It was working exactly as intended. The fact that they went so whole hog on advertising it as environmentally friendly just puts that extra little flourish on it that explains why so many people who bought them are pretty pissed.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:55
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Dick Trauma posted:I received a service notice for my 2016 Golf about the stereo. Something to do with people complaining about freezes and other glitches and they'll install a newer version of the software but it will take 2 hours. If it is anything like the software on the 2015 Passat I could see that being annoying enough to do right away. I've been driving one for the last week or so as a loaner while my Jetta is in the shop and the loving thing freezes solid at least once every couple days. We're talking it locks up so that you can't interface with it in any way. Not even the volume control works. If it sits like that for long enough (5 min or so?) eventually it restarts itself. I've seen it happen both playing stuff off an iPhone and with plain vanilla radio. edit: it says something that I'm looking forward to getting my cheap-rear end edition 2014 Jetta back so I can listen to NPR on the way home from work without a 50/50 chance of having to reboot the radio.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:22
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MarcusSA posted:Yeah the service guy that was helping me said he bought like 20 hats and a bunch of sweaters because he couldn't figure out what to spend his on either. Our 30k service comes up in something like September, so we lucked out on that. My alternative plan was to buy a crate of mugs or whatever and sell them for half price on ebay. Kind of a VW flavored food stamps -> Pepsi - > cigarettes routine.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:09
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Blakkout posted:The FTC flexing some muscle is fine and whatnot, but in my opinion affected owners will have better odds at making themselves whole through these class actions--and even that's a long shot. Do not hold your breath on the FTC getting enough money to make all the consumers happy here; it never happens. We're all hosed as far as getting any real restitution goes. At this point I just want to watch the dogpile and see VW of America burn.
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Mar 30, 2016 16:07
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TsarZiedonis posted:I have a 2012 TDI Jetta and I'm starting to get letters about class action lawsuits and individual consumer lawsuits (I'm in VA, if that helps.) I've already received my $1000 in apology money from VW. Are these things that I should be taking seriously? If you want to get some kind of compensation for the value loving your car got, yes. It probably wont' be much. The lawyers will suck up a lot of it, but it is also pretty much the only recourse you have. The good side of it is that it's zero effort on your part, so it's not like you'll invest a ton of time for that small reward. edit: full disclosure, I've been on the class action bandwagon for my 2014 TDI from day 1.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:03
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fknlo posted:I'm basically just biding my time trying to see which one is going to be the best one to get in on and go from there. Which class action? My understanding is that the way these things work all the various suits get rolled up into one big one, and all the lawyers involved team up to negotiate some kind of settlement. At least that's the gist I got from all the emails I got from the firm I signed up with talking about how thrilled they were that they got to take lead on something or other because they filed in a specific district early which means they get to be at the grownups table post-consolidation. I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on the internet, so take that all with a grain of salt.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:19
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Mat_Drinks posted:If the other driver was insured your insurance company should be going after them for you and I think you can realistically set the expectation for you insurance company that you want to be made as whole as possible. And really, isn't it for the best if it's totalled? The repairs would take forever, the history would be marked and even the best body shop has difficulty with blending into OEM paint. It also depends on what his coverage is. If he's got liability only then he's pretty straight hosed if the other guy was uninsured. edit: don't drive around in nice cars (or really even one you bought new) with liability only. That's for college kids driving disposable beaters.
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Apr 17, 2016 22:16
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HatfulOfHollow posted:Umm... If you've been hit 5 times I'm pretty sure it's not the other guy that's the idiot. poo poo happens in some places. The roads near my HS used to be notorious for fender benders because of the idiot 16 year olds getting a taste for freedom and insisting that they had to eat every lunch at the nearby Dairy Queen, which lead to a lot of fender benders as people rushed to not be late for class.
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Apr 18, 2016 18:43
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Kramdar posted:The trials and tribulations of any Oregon high school right there. Yup.
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Apr 18, 2016 19:42
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The article I read (which I'm sure is just as speculative as all of them) pointed out that the $1B covers about $1.3k per car, so the assumption is that the newer ones will get a combination of software patch and maybe some modifications. The interesting curve ball is that even if VW, the layers, and the JD have all agreed the judge still needs to OK it, and there have been cases in the past where judges rejected agreements like this because they let the company off too easy or didn't remedy the situation or didn't make good damage done to consumers etc.
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Apr 21, 2016 02:59
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two_beer_bishes posted:I'm not sure, but if it's pre scandal + $5k I'll probably take it since that would mean they paid us about a grand to drive for 3 years. But then I have to replace it and it's the perfect car for my wife's 100 mile per day commute. We'll probably get a 2013+ Accord if that's what it comes to. I'm in more or less the same boat, right down to getting a Honda as a replacement. The numbers get a little wonkier when you factor in financing and the interest you paid etc, but my wife and I did the math and even with that it's still basically a really cheap 3 year lease. That said, that math is assuming pre-scandal KBB + $5k, so the real math could end up a lot different. I can't say I'm happy with it (I hate shopping for cars and would much prefer if the car I bought was what I thought it was), but it's a good deal. Actually, given that the loving transmission blew at 23k miles I'm probably glad I'm getting out from under it.
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Apr 22, 2016 19:56
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I got an email from the guys I signed on with for the diesel class action with a link to a transcript of the latest chat between the various parties and the judge overseeing the settlement. Here is the link Here is the money shot: quote:At our last status conference last month on April 21st, the parties reported that they had reached an agreement in principle as to what to do about the more than 480,000 2-liter-engine cars on the road and the associated environmental consequences resulting from the excess emissions from these vehicles. Here's hoping it comes out that well in the final version, but it seems to be what the presiding judge is demanding as a framework. Consumer's choice of buyback or - if feasible - fix, cash on top, VW doing some green poo poo, and the settlement amount isn't reduced by attorneys fees.
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May 27, 2016 16:36
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MarcusSA posted:Well poo poo... I'm curious how they would handle a buy back for consumers that are top heavy on their loans. I'm pretty sure I'd break even but I imagine there are a few people that could be out money if they can't fix the cars to stay on the road. The last thing I heard implied that they would value them at KBB right before the scandal broke. I'm pretty sure that the idea is that that plus a cash payout makes sure people aren't underwater on loans.
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May 27, 2016 23:09
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It's better than the alternative but it's not all sunshine and blowjobs. My wife and I just did the math and we essentially had a REALLY expensive two year lease Coming out $6k poorer for driving it two years isn't as bad as we were fearing, indeed it's a lot better than we hoped, but it's still a financial blow.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:48
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