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A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


You should edit the OP. It still says Dance is never coming out. Winds of Winter is never coming out.

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A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


So I was just thinking about Aegon and how we know he's alive. Anyway, we know originally that Rhaegar thought of himself as the Prince that was Promised, but then when Aegon was born, Rhaegar thought it was Aegon. Then apperently Aegon got all head smashed and it looks like PTTP is Dany. However, now that Aegon is alive, I could actually see Rhaegar being right and Aegon being the Prince that was Promised. Dany just seems to obvious to me, it would be totally expected.

That would also make Dany the mummer's dragon that she sees in the House of the Undying. I haven't read Dance and I can't really remember anything about Aegon's birth, but while reading the book I'm going to watch for this. I could see Grum doing a twist along these lines

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


So I was just thinking about Feast, and wasn't there some random band of sellswords that broke some contract that they kept bringing up? Are they in Dance?

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I don't think you can really say the Boltons are Sauron level evil. The key trait of Sauron was that he was doing what he was doing with no ultimate plan, that's what are saying when they talk about Sauron the villian.

Boltons are not like that all, they do have a ultimate goal in mind. They want to be northkings and true, they do do crazy poo poo to get it done, but psychopaths do exist in real life. They are really not all that unrealistic.

A Typical Goon fucked around with this message at Jul 11, 2011 around 05:59

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Riso posted:

Yes, very interesting, but how many of those words are related to describe surprise sex?

All of them. All of the words are related to the true long story of GRRM slowly raping all his admiring fans, turning them into pitiful versions of themselves, much like Theon. It's all meta and poo poo.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Anyone else feel like Jon's 'death' was a homeage to the assassination of Caesar? The whole "for the Watch" thing reminds me of the senators killing Caesar for the good of Rome, and the whole surronding him and stabbing him. Anyone else see this?

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


EC posted:

I'm very curious as to how he's planning on paying all of that gold to the company. 100 thousand golden dragons? Yowza.

It's probably closer to 150k Golden Dragons with all the other money he's paying out. Still shouldn't be that much to him if he gets Casterly Rock, I mean the crown is like 3 million in debt to the Lannisters already. If they can lend out 3 million dragons, I can't imagine 150k is a lot to them.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Doibhilin posted:

I don't think he's a Targaryen loyalist. I think he honestly wants what is best for Westeros--a good king. And he's realized that Aegon is the perfect opportunity for a good king. He can be molded to rule, to understand his people--like Merlin and King Arthur. It's not about prolonging the Targaryen dynasty, it's about the opportunity Aegon presents.

That doesn't really make sense as if he was truly in it for the good of the kingdom he could easily have backed someone that would have been a good king. Like Renly, or Robb or something.


gently caress all the serious claimants to the throne, Mance Rayder was the king the world needed.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I think I might be the only one that likes the Aegon plot. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that I'm anticipating a huge battle to come from it. I want to see the Golden Company plus Dorne fighting the Lannisters and Tyrells or something.

The whole plot to me seems to have the most potential for another big war scenario where there are a bunch of armies all moving around trying to outmanoeuvre each other. I think that War of the 5 Kings is my favourite part of the series so far.

I'm also really looking forward to the Sansa/Davos chapters next book. It'll be interesting to see how LF's plans to have Sansa rule the North for him are impacted by Rickon being discovered as 'true' hier to the North.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


So I was just re-reading a little of Game, and a thought occured to me. If Ned Stark is 35 at the beginning of Game, and Robert's Rebellion happened 13 before Game, why exactly was Jon Arryn fostering two 22 year old men? Shouldn't they have been out doing lord things?

Also, are Dany's dragons all male or is it possible for them to breed with each other and make a bigger army?

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Eggnogium posted:

Robert and Ned were fostered long before Robert's rebellion... Why did you think otherwise?

They were in the Vale when the Rebellion began. Aerys wanted their heads, and Jon Arryn was the first Lord to rebel. Maybe they were his squires or something.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I was just thinking there is no way these books can be finished in two more. There is way to much going on and too many characters that need POV chapters, which usually aren't very short. I mean just look at this breakdown.

You have the North of the Wall stuff with Bran, which will be a few chapters. Then you have the Wall stuff with Jon and Mel, which is sure to be a bunch of chapters. Then you have all the poo poo at Winterfell with 2 POV characters and Stannis, which will probably be a couple chapters.

Then you have Davos on Skagos looking for Rickon, surely another 2 or 3 chapter journey. Jamie and Brienne and Lady Stoneheart in the Riverlands, and you know they won't all stay there, so there are some more chapters. Sansa in the Vale dealing with Littlefinger. Going down you have King's Landing, with Cersei, and I doubt we'll just stay on her POV. I'm fully expecting to get the POV from the Sand Snake on her way, not to mention a Tyrell viewpoint, probably Garlan.

Let's not forget Aegon and the Griffin campaigning in the Stormlands, that was a plot point left dangling. We're almost certainly going to hear about Dorne and Martell's reaction to his newphew being alive, plus his son's death. This is all on Westoros.

Across the sea you have Dany with the Dothraki, Vicatarion and Barristan looking at the huge battle of Meereen. Oh and Tyrion with the Second sons are gonna retake Casterly Rock through the drains.

Oh poo poo, I almost forgot Arya, she has to get back to Westoros while still finishing her training.

That's like 13 different story lines most of which have multiple POV characters, its going to take forever just for one book month to pass, and I really don't get the impression that the story is almost over. Even if every book is bigger than Storm, I just don't see these books getting wrapped up in just two more.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Unzip and Attack posted:

2. In one of Griff's chapters, he remembers Varys convincing Aerys that he meant to make a grab for the throne by having the Tourney at Harrenhall. If Varys is on the side of the Targs, why would he sow division between the King and his son?

Maybe Rhaegar really was going to make a grab for the throne, so Varys told Aerys the truth to try to prevent a war?

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Kainser posted:

I honestly wonder why Roose is keeping Ramsay around. There seems to be a lot of Northmen who are all "Eh, Roose is pretty bad but not bad enough to resist I guess, but his heir is loving insane ".

It's not like he loves his son or anything.

He straight up say that the reason he doesn't have Ramsay killed is because he (Roose) is too old, and if he gets his wife pregnant again he'll die before his son is a man grown. I can't remember if he says the Boltons have never had a boy lord, but I do know he says that he thinks a boy lord would be worse than Ramsay.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Habibi posted:

Surely that's not what 'dark star' refers to...

If you missed this implication you should probably give up and stop reading as you aren't good at it.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


MikeJF posted:

People keep saying this. The point is that he couldn't write the start of the Mereneese situation without knowing how it would end, so he could set it up. He's (presumably) got it plotted out now. It's not all in a book, but the knot's been solved. The knot was his knot, not yours.

Except that GRUM has straight up said the knot was figuring out what order to get people to Dany. This was made worse by the fact that he never planned on writing the exact order, but then he had to write it...except he didn't write half of it, so the knot could still very well be there, just pushed back to the next book.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Chunk posted:

Wyman Manderly, one of the only characters left that actually does anything, secretly kidnapped some Freys and baked them into pies, and then fed them to more Freys.

He also ate the pies, and in fact asked for thirds. Wyman Manderly is badass is what I'm saying

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Dead Man Posting posted:

I have been curious for a while now, and please be honest: have you read the series? Or does ASoIaF not interest you at all?

Edit: Also I have been curious what other goons think:

When/if Dany ever does return to Westeros (everything is pointing there but who knows), how will she...enter it?

Will she somehow help R'hllor's Zombie Jon at the Wall repel a bunch of Other Zombies, or will she return through Dorne, like an inverse Aegon the Conqueror

To go West you must go East. She is clearly going to go to Asshai, then circumnavigate the world. You gotta be a better reader.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


So I haven't really followed this series for the last couple years, I want to do a re-read through, but figure it'll take me about a year. It's been sort of awhile now, is the projected release date for the next book still never?

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


If there are only 4 sand snakes on the show the last one is probably Sarella who must have some part to play in the whole Oldtown/Citadel subplot

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


TommyGun85 posted:

females do not inherit before males. A member of another family never inherits before a member of the ruling family. Bastards never inherit.

Tommen
Stannis
Myrcella
Dany

in that order

No dude, trueborn daughters inherit before uncles, and inherit before sons in Dorne.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


The last time the comet is mentioned is when Bran is warging into Summer at the end of Clash and he sees the 'dragon in the sky breathing fire' which disappears when he growls at it. People actually took that line to be about a literal dragon?

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Spun Dog posted:

Here's the actual quote-


Winged snake is pretty specific and I've never heard a comet roar.

A comet burning across the skin casting red light could clearly look like a snake in the sky surrounded by fire, especially as the POV is Summer who wouldn't understand the concept of a comet. It's pretty clearly a subtle reference to the comet fading as opposed to a throw-away single line from forever ago that implies there is a random dragon just chilling around the North

Melisandre also uses blood magic when she burns the three leeches with Edric Strom's blood in SoS, which is implied to have been connected to the deaths of the other three kings.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


emanresu tnuocca posted:

Why would a wolf snarling at a celestial body make it instantly disappear? Why would Summer see the comet coming out of winterfell, roaring and then going poof?

It's a coincidence. Summer doesn't make the comet disappears it just does. Just like it never meant anything even though literally all the characters think it represents them.

He's looking up at the sky, through the fire and smoke of a razed Winterfell. It never says anything about the 'dragon' coming out of Winterfell.

I think it's a lot more logical that the 'roar of fire' was just light coming off the comet. Much more likely than Summer being attacked by a dragon and Bran never giving it a single thought ever.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I think the most logical thing to happen is Mel hears Stannis died at Winterfell, tries to resurrect Azor Ahai by burning Shireen and ends up bringing back Jon.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


visceril posted:

hmmm.

In the books he stays in the Vale to consolidate his hold on the place. In the show he doesn't have to do that because the Vale lords in the show are dumb af and don't have cool castles or bad pussies.


So, he's got the East and a foothold in tbe Riverlands. What's next? He could try and wrestle all of the Riverlands away from the Freys. The show Vale might fight because they're really dumb, but beyond everyone hating the Freys there's no reason for them to break their longstanding isolationism. and even if they did fight the best he can do at the moment is restore Edmure. To claim it through Sansa he's have to kill both Edmure and Blackfish and the latter won't go down easy. As if that wasn't enough, he wouldn't be able to justify putting a Stark loyalist back in charge to the Lannisters. Weak as they are, LF wants direct, legitimate control.

The only way for him to expand now is to use Sansa to take the North. Putting a Stark in Winterfell is a slam dunk, and with the North and East he could pinch the Freys out and while the Lannisters are busy playing with Flowers and Sparrows the Mokingbird will conquer a contiguous half of Westeros.



Even in the books it makes sense for him to go North. Stannis wants a Stark so he might even ask LF for Sansa.

Pretty sure his plan is explicitly laid out in the book, he plans on marrying Sansa to Harry the heir while killing Robert Arryn. That way he is liegelord of the Riverlands while being strongly allied to the heir of the Vale and who he assumes is the heir of Winterfell. He says he plans on raising armies and taking the North back from the Boltons by force.

In the show he sends Sansa to Ramsay to get raped and to give the Boltons more legitimacy I guess? It doesn't make sense

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Four Finger Wu posted:

http://www.ibtimes.com/author-georg...-winter-1996443

I initially read this headline as "Author George RR Martin Reports That He Has Finished 'The Winds Of Winter'"

But no... it's actually reporting that he has addressed those reports. Newsworthy.

GRRM surprises literally no one by revealing that he doesn't write

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I somehow doubt Varys is interested in Dany on the throne, when he tells Tyrion about how he was castrated he comes off as having a genuine hate of all things magical. I mean sure he could have been lying, but it didn't really sound like he'd be down to be ruled by a crazy queen that has a bunch of magic dragons.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Barristan tells Dany that Aerys has always been a little crazy but in the beginning was a decent king that just had some oddities. He implies it got worse and worse over time and the Duskendale poo poo made him go right overboard with the paranoia

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


If Jon Snow is actually dead that's pretty retarded and would only be because GRRM was pissed that everyone figured out about his parentage and that he isn't as subtle as he thought he was. I'm doing a series re-read and it seems pretty clear that his arc was leading towards him being an actual good not retarded leader, if he just randomly dies because he made a bad choice about a minor thing that's loving dumb.

It'd be kinda cool if R+L=J is true, and is revealed and he is actually dead and it didn't mean a thing the whole time. Another FU from GRRM to the readers

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I'm re-reading Dance right now and I never noticed before (cause I barely paid attention to Dany's lovely chapters) but it's basically confirmed that the Prince that was promised will be either Jon or Dany. When Dany is considering marrying Hizdahr, Barristan tells her how Aerys ended up his wife, and it was because a Child of the forest foretold that the Prince would be born of Aerys' lineage, so Dany's grandfather ordered Aerys to marry his wife

It's gonna be so sweet when all these interesting little subplots are not brought up in the show and the next book never comes out

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Krinkle posted:

Okay so there is a man named Reek who is Ramsay's manservant who never showers. He is famous for this. When the poo poo hit the fan and Ramsay does a switcheroo, reek dies in his place and he rolls around in pig poo poo to hide as reek. How did he know this would happen? Did he take a shower before he switched clothes? How did he know that today was the day he had to wash his Reek? Is he psychic?
Me: no, this is bad/lazy/convenient writing that you've put under a microscope and I am going to ignore it and move on now.
Preston: Yes, and furthermore...

For someone who reads the books religiously he sure does forget relevant poo poo a lot, Roose Bolton tells Theon the story of the original Reek. Bolton says the original Reek was the most clean person he ever knew and that he bathed 3 times a day and did a bunch of fragrant poo poo to try and hide the smell but he was just naturally really really loving smelly and not even the Maesters could figure it out. It'd make no sense for Ramsay to try to take Reek's place unless as a last resort because Reek is gonna smell like poo poo no matter what and it'd be impossible for them to think Reek was Ramsay for very long unless they immediately killed him.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


I just finished my re-read of Dance, I don't really understand the deal with Mance in Winterfell or what his plan was. Why does Mance try to rescue Arya when he should know she's fake? The other lords are said to probably suspect just by the way she's acting and he knows what the real Arya looks like as he saw her at the beginning of Game of Thrones? Why do the spear wives kill random Bolton men? Wouldn't they want to guards to be less suspicious and not on the lookout for weird poo poo?

His whole plan seemed pretty bad and we never actually see where he is during the escape with Jeyne. Maybe I'm getting too Preston here but his plan on the surface doesn't really fit his characterization, he's always portrayed as very intelligent and perceptive, I feel like there is probably something more to his story than what we hear in the Pink letter and see from Theon's perspective.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


sunday at work posted:

What would be the timeline for that plan? Was he originally going to take Winterfell from the Stark's? How? The Boltons haven't had the castle for very long for him to be drawing plans around the current occupants. The wildings were moving tworad the wall before John joined the watch. Mance couldn't have hoped to take Winterfell befor the War ended as it did.

His original plan had him breaking the Nights Watch and moving through the wall with his army, that obviously changed when Stannis broke his army and captured him. His new plan would be what he was trying to accomplish after he reached Winterfell and realized that 'Arya' that he had been sent to rescue by Jon was really an imposter, why does he still steal Jeyne from Ramsay and why does he have the spear wives murder random people before the rescue? Did he really not recognize Arya and just get captured again? That be pretty lame but I guess possible.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


How do you dudes even know the maid in question is Sansa?

I know she's called a 'maiden with purple serpents in her hair' or something during the prophecy about Joffrey but does the prophecy imply that the snow castle maiden is the same girl from the earlier prophecy? Whole lotta girls walking around, maybe it'll be a foreshadowing about Arya's eventual faceless man adventures

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


emanresu tnuocca posted:

The things with GRRM's prophecies is that sometimes they're allegorical but quite often they are fully literal, and to top that off there's the frequently recurring device where a prophecy is completly obvious only the character receiving said prophecy is not familiar with the characters/places they see in their visions so they interpret it differently or focus on the wrong details, that's why I think that the Ghost is basically been shown Sansa's involvement with Joffrey's assasination and is later shown that she's been ferried off to the Eyrie, both visions are 'important' though focusing on Sansa playing around with sweetrobin itself isn't. It should also be noted that almost all of the visions she sees pertain directly to the Starks (the only one that doesn't is the vision of Balon's death) and it's likely that she experiences these specific visions due to Arya's presence as Arya herself is a skinchanger and a greenseer (she talks to the old gods through the Hearttree in Harrenhal).

Obviously it's very possible I'm dead wrong and that in TWOW Sansa will murder some Umber in Snow as she's climbing up to the Eyrie again, who knows, but it seems to me that the vision is rather specific.

I could be wrong because I don't have the books in front of me but the part about Balon's death reminded me, most of the prophecies are about leaders of great houses dying. Robb, Balon and Joffrey's deaths are all talked about by the Ghost and you could make the case that Lysa Arryn's death was a result of Littlefinger creeping on Sansa's snow castle

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


What are Ben Plumm's plans now that he has Tyrion? It kind of sounded like it was hinted that they would betray the Yunkai'i and switch sides again, because the Yunkai forces are terrible, but with Dany gone and presumed dead by everyone that doesn't make too much sense unless they really care about Meereen. Was scene where Tyrion agrees to give Plumm and his men a bunch of gold and titles and poo poo hinting that the Second Sons were going to leave Meereen entirely and join their strength to fAegon? I'm pretty confident that Tyrion specifically hears earlier on in the book that the Golden Company sailed on Westeros so that was how I read the last Tyrion chapter.

Is Tyrion even going to meet Dany at all in the next book*?


*thats never coming out

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Bran's chapters all suck and he's pretty much a rapist

Jaime Did Nothing Wrong

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Old Nan was blood raven in disguise all along guiding Bran since birth

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A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


Space Pussy posted:

They better loving cast Victarion if only for the shield island battle.

I like the part where he makes sacrifices to three different Gods at once, just hedging his bets. Very practical

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