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Still absolute peak Guardian, it's a work of art. e: A tattwo is the worst form of self-mutilation: quote:For three days, I can’t speak to my son. I can hardly bear to look at him. I decide this is rational. The last thing we need, I think, is an explosion of white-hot words that everyone carries around for the rest of their lives, engraved on their hearts. In any case, I’m not even sure what it is I want to say. In my mind’s eye I stand there, a bitter old woman with pursed lips wringing my black-gloved hands. He’s done the one thing that I’ve said for years, please don’t do this. It would really upset me if you did this. And now it’s happened. So there’s nothing left to say. quote:He says, “I’m still the same person.” big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 13:54
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Eregos posted:Oh dear, I don't actually have a list of such Corbyn quotes, it's a collective impression built with little data, I could try to dig up some of what I've heard but I'd assumed the thread would have a pretty good idea what I'm referring to. If the intent is to point out there are reasonable explanations for all of these (supposed) incidents, I wouldn't know, I was sharing an impression not making a definite argument. (I intend to make a definite argument thesis about American politics sometime in the future, replete with evidence, arguing the American political system is in decline likely for decades to come, but that is for another day. Maybe sometime next year.) Corbyn/Trump making gaffes, saying inappropriate and impolitic things isn't really the same as Trump's unlimited, absolute politics of personal destruction though I could see how one might get them confused. Gaffes are basically either the politician openly insulting someone or the press hating what the politician said. With Corbyn it's always the press hating what he said: 'Maybe we should wait for some evidence before blaming the poisoning on Russia.', 'Maybe we shouldn't be selling arms to Saudi Arabia and Israel when they're killing civilians with them.', 'Actually the state can run the trains cheaply and effectively.', etc. The only dodgey parts of what he says is when he's sharing a (usually peace meeting) platform with someone who at some point said or did something poo poo and calls them a friend. Edit: Oh yes there's also when they hate the politician and so mock them for fairly inconsequential errors like not recalling an exact figure that's pretty meaningless but somehow undermines the whole policy. namesake fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 13:54
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Eregos posted:Oh dear, I don't actually have a list of such Corbyn quotes, it's a collective impression built with little data, I could try to dig up some of what I've heard but I'd assumed the thread would have a pretty good idea what I'm referring to. If the intent is to point out there are reasonable explanations for all of these (supposed) incidents, I wouldn't know, I was sharing an impression not making a definite argument. (I intend to make a definite argument thesis about American politics sometime in the future, replete with evidence, arguing the American political system is in decline likely for decades to come, but that is for another day. Maybe sometime next year.) Corbyn/Trump making gaffes, saying inappropriate and impolitic things isn't really the same as Trump's unlimited, absolute politics of personal destruction though I could see how one might get them confused. You're right that they both say 'impolitic' things, just for different reasons. What Trump says is impolitic because he's explicitly racist/sexist/homophobic while most politicians and the media rely on dogwhistles and strong implication. That means he gets a lot of coverage that was very much 'He can't say THIS! (but we agree and have been pushing the same message for years)' Funnily enough it just made him more popular because nobody in the establishment was seriously disagreeing with his message, just his tone. Corbyn meanwhile says things also considered impolitic, but that's because they consist of policies like not killing the poor and avoiding foreign wars. In the past this has also generated a lot of hysterical media coverage, although from a perspective of 'this is so wrong and stupid' rather than a tone argument. It's kind of dropped off now because the establishment has realised every time they excoriate his policies in the press it turns out the public support them.
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Sep 1, 2018 13:58
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forkboy84 posted:Of course Alan Johnson has never read Mary Shelley. or watched any adaptation in any medium ever, or even like, heard the term used in common parlance where it is used to mean "a project that destroys it's creator". basically it's like he somehow learned "Frankenstein, he made a monster, story ends" and ran with it.
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Sep 1, 2018 14:00
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namesake posted:
Figures are important though if the last time your redistributive party left power they left a note saying there's no money left. (Ive always felt that was an extraordinary thing to do and would be interested to learn where that bloke is now)
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Sep 1, 2018 14:05
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Breath Ray posted:I just think it's weird the guardian, which publishes a million clickbait articles a day, doesn't see that being the only paper to support jez would get them even more hits. maybe they could trial it in the observer  Breath Ray posted:on the civil service yes it is stable, easy to join and well paid if 50k pa for 35hrs a week not doing IT is well paid No seriously, go get yourself checked out mate. Median salary in the Civil Service is £3k less than the national median, and £50k is in the 90th percentile for a civil servant. Also they've been capped to 1% pay rises for 8 years and have lost the defined benefits pension, and huge chunks of them have seen their jobs outsourced. Like I say, late 90s/early 00s was the last time civil service pay was even on par with private sector, it's been slipping ever since.
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Sep 1, 2018 14:06
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Eregos posted:Oh dear, I don't actually have a list of such Corbyn quotes, it's a collective impression built with little data, I could try to dig up some of what I've heard but I'd assumed the thread would have a pretty good idea what I'm referring to. If the intent is to point out there are reasonable explanations for all of these (supposed) incidents, I wouldn't know, I was sharing an impression not making a definite argument. (I intend to make a definite argument thesis about American politics sometime in the future, replete with evidence, arguing the American political system is in decline likely for decades to come, but that is for another day. Maybe sometime next year.) Corbyn/Trump making gaffes, saying inappropriate and impolitic things isn't really the same as Trump's unlimited, absolute politics of personal destruction though I could see how one might get them confused. the whole point of the well-established campaign against Corbyn is to create the impression you've received. Large corporate media interests and their political representatives hoped people would be overwhelmed by a gish gallop and simply submit to Corbyn Bad. The primary flaws were that they massively over-estimated their own credibility and didn't account for election rules forcing people to see who Corbs actually is - a kindly jam grandad with political views that were mainstream in the UK for decades during its 20th century pinnacle, and not actually socialism. There's a bunch of examples of this you can come up with. The terrorist funeral thing - not every PLO member is a munich terrorist no matter how much the current Israeli government/British media insist they never held that exact view. Fuckup there was not addressing this. The antisemitism thing at large - you don't get to complain that someone isn't adopting the IHRA definitions if a) they are, b) you constantly make antisemitic slurs against holocaust survivors and hope nobody notices, before making further slurs against jewish people who point this out, and c) insist that zionism is judaism, which is defined as antisemitic in the loving IHRA document. The IRA thing - "he shared a platform with people who helped bring about peace in NI, what a prick". Good luck with that one, you just made him look more important than he was. The Hamas thing - "he shared a platform to try and help, in a small way, peace in the middle east, what a prick" just comes across as stupid and condescending, doubly so if he calls you on it so hard you start stuttering and acting stroppy about it. poo poo, one of the first things they threw at him was literally "he had sex with a black woman in the 70s". All this effort has cumulatively achieved, alongside Brexit, is the creation of opposing political camps that right now are pretty much racist pricks v not entirely racist pricks. There's nothing they can actually throw at him that sticks anymore, and it's incredibly easy to silence his critics in public because none of them are actually consciously aware of why they don't like him. If it wasn't so blatant, poo poo like calling out pro-apartheid Israeli groups as zionists would have really hurt pretty much any left politician. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 14:13
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If your go-to method of trying to humiliate a man you disagree with is to depict him in women's clothing, you might want to take a moment to think about your attitutdes to gender. Especially if you want to claim you hate Islam because it treats women as second-class citizens. Edit: Khan, not Corbyn. This isn't some weird new approach to smear Jezza. Lady Demelza fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 14:16
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Lady Demelza posted:If your go-to method of trying to humiliate a man you disagree with is to depict him in women's clothing, you might want to take a moment to think about your attitutdes to gender. it's also great they're pushing the "khan has made londistan! no go zones for whites! sharia law!" angle while said tyrannical mayor responded to their blimp with "i'm flattered but married"
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Sep 1, 2018 14:18
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Breath Ray posted:Figures are important though if the last time your redistributive party left power they left a note saying there's no money left. (Ive always felt that was an extraordinary thing to do and would be interested to learn where that bloke is now) I'm pretty sure that was a joke. unless your point is that Gordon broon lost all the poonds because of socialism and definitely not because of a little thing called the "global financial crisis" and our massive over dependence on financial services
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Sep 1, 2018 14:23
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CoolCab posted:
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Sep 1, 2018 14:25
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Lady Demelza posted:If your go-to method of trying to humiliate a man you disagree with is to depict him in women's clothing, you might want to take a moment to think about your attitutdes to gender. That's the best part of the balloon thing. Trump was depicted as a baby to remind people that he's a massive baby. Khan is being depicted in a bikini to remind people that... he banned body shaming adverts from the Underground, a move that was actually quite popular with a lot of people.
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Sep 1, 2018 14:25
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CoolCab posted:it's also great they're pushing the "khan has made londistan! no go zones for whites! sharia law!" angle while said tyrannical mayor responded to their blimp with "i'm flattered but married" Yeah I'm not Khan's biggest fan but he's played this one absolutely perfectly. The one thing these types* is always vulnerable to is gentle mockery, because their self-image as brave warriors fighting the good fight has no defence against it. * I feel like we need a new term for this particular type of alt-right person, who hides their far-right views much more thoroughly than the mainstream American alt-right types. Or maybe we just keep the alt-right tag for them and call the ones literally screaming in the street about Jews what they are, loving fash. Yes I'm aware the alt-right types are *all* fash but it's easier when talking to those who haven't looked into it to have a division between the nice polite young chap who's suddenly deeply concerned about a Rudyard Kipling poem and the street-fighting types. goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 14:26
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XMNN posted:I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Yes, it was a joke. Unfortunately one that has come to be used against Labour ever since. Article on political letters between outgoing and incoming administrations: https://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-letter-wider-tradition
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Sep 1, 2018 14:27
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Labour, in fact, caused the financial crisis, by spending all the poonds. True fact.
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Sep 1, 2018 14:38
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basically all came down to the trumpian economics of jeremy corbyn
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Sep 1, 2018 14:48
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So I have a dirty secret. I had a Guardian membership. Signed up for it in Feb last year before I found this thread and turned properly left-wing, because they seemed to be the only paper publishing anything even remotely in support of a left-wing viewpoint. Just cancelled it with the reason "I don't like your journalism" and then in the feedback part wrote: "The relentless attacks on Jeremy Corbyn are bullshit and you know it. You can all get to gently caress for supporting this fascist Tory government and causing suffering and death for the poor". Also re: Khan balloon, I'm gonna link my own tweets (I know) because I cba typing it again: https://twitter.com/WhatEvil/status/1035482842455830528
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Sep 1, 2018 14:58
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Yeah I'm not Khan's biggest fan but he's played this one absolutely perfectly. The one thing these types* is always vulnerable to is gentle mockery, because their self-image as brave warriors fighting the good fight has no defence against it. It's why the one portrayal of Nazi's that hasn't been co-opted by modern fascists is Springtime For Hitler.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:03
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WhatEvil posted:So I have a dirty secret. I had a Guardian membership. Dedication to owning yourself. (Good that this thread still radicalises people, in as much as Goons count as people)
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Sep 1, 2018 15:04
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Yeah I'm not Khan's biggest fan but he's played this one absolutely perfectly. The one thing these types* is always vulnerable to is gentle mockery, because their self-image as brave warriors fighting the good fight has no defence against it. Call them alt-fascists.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:13
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:It's why the one portrayal of Nazi's that hasn't been co-opted by modern fascists is Springtime For Hitler. There was a really good youtube video on this, but I'm phone posting. You're probably already referencing it but I'll try and find the link Edit - it's Lindsay Ellis https://youtu.be/62cPPSyoQkE Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 15:18
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https://twitter.com/sambjoyce/status/1035597145443844096 This is the best thing I've ever seen
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Sep 1, 2018 15:20
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WhatEvil posted:So I have a dirty secret. I had a Guardian membership. I got chatting this week with someone who's set to join the Guardian to sort out their finances as they're apparently burning through the Scott trust at an astonishing rate (while readership falls). Sounds like things are pretty bleak over there, I think they'll go full paywall soon
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Sep 1, 2018 15:24
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I would love to live in / on the South Pole
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Sep 1, 2018 15:24
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/sambjoyce/status/1035597145443844096 That is technically true, south pole work at the bases generally is seasonal, you go down for a season and if you don't like it, you're stuck there until the boat comes back. Especially over winter. On the plus side if you're at one of the big bases you probably have access to some surprisingly good amenities because they do try to stop people going mental down there.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:25
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while I can only feel schaudenfreude for the declining fortunes of the cotton lords' bible, I can't help but also be troubled for what it might mean for investigative journalism in this country.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:26
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/sambjoyce/status/1035597145443844096 They say "during the austral summer" so presumably it's actually full time, but only for a few months a year.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:27
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I once looked into working at the south pole because I had a brief fascination with the place. It attracts odd sorts as you might imagine.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:28
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Necrothatcher posted:I got chatting this week with someone who's set to join the Guardian to sort out their finances as they're apparently burning through the Scott trust at an astonishing rate (while readership falls). Sounds like things are pretty bleak over there, I think they'll go full paywall soon I know a guy who works there and yeah apparently it's not doing terribly well.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:28
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TomViolence posted:while I can only feel schaudenfreude for the declining fortunes of the cotton lords' bible, I can't help but also be troubled for what it might mean for investigative journalism in this country. a huge chunk of investigative journalism is already "mirroring something someone found on twitter". it's not that it's going, it's gone.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:29
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If you go to the south pole definitely watch The Thing before you go, and take a copy of At The Mountains of Madness with you as well.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Yeah I'm not Khan's biggest fan but he's played this one absolutely perfectly. The one thing these types* is always vulnerable to is gentle mockery, because their self-image as brave warriors fighting the good fight has no defence against it. Crypto-fascist.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:40
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I occasionally like to yell into the void that is CiF, but I've been on pre-moderation for about 3 years now because I keep making fun of their journalistic integrity, they really dont like that. Also you're not allowed to talk about the moderation
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Sep 1, 2018 15:42
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Breath Ray posted:on the civil service yes it is stable, easy to join and well paid if 50k pa for 35hrs a week not doing IT is well paid Stop talking poo poo
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Sep 1, 2018 15:43
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CoolCab posted:a huge chunk of investigative journalism is already "mirroring something someone found on twitter". it's not that it's going, it's gone. It's not gone just a little diminished. It's really frustrating, the Guardians work on stuff like the panama papers was so good and so important but their editorial direction undermines everything. If they were even neutral on Labour I'd resubscribe but gently caress giving them money while they're doing the smear campaign.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:45
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As I said last time, is reporting on stuff like the panama papers really important if you also work hard to ensure that nothing can actually be done about it because you actually like the underlying structures that facilitate it? As put, I don't like the effects, but the causes are very very good.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:47
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To be fair, your cost of living at the South Pole is going to be pretty drat cheap. If landlords keep increasing in prominence we'll probably all end up relocating there.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:49
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Rarity posted:To be fair, your cost of living at the South Pole is going to be pretty drat cheap. If landlords keep increasing in prominence we'll probably all end up relocating there. what? lol when I was living in Iqaluit 20 years ago 4L of milk was 14 loving dollars. I understand some subsidies got cut and now a cabbage sells for $28. air freight is loving expensive!
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Sep 1, 2018 15:52
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Isn't London fairly safe as big cities go anyway? Like the whole "more murders in London than NYC" thing earlier this year is 90% because of this:  and suddenly the take-away message isn't "oh god London's homicide rate went up 40x because of [muslim mayor sadiq khan/millions less police/insert hot take]" but "hey, NYC has been doing a pretty good job lately." Of course the pseudo-fash lot still keep parroting that Khan quote out of context about how sometimes terror attacks happen in big cities. They do. Get over it you colossal babies. OwlFancier posted:If you go to the south pole definitely watch The Thing before you go Rigged Death Trap posted:Crypto-fascist.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:54
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CoolCab posted:what? lol when I was living in Iqaluit 20 years ago 4L of milk was 14 loving dollars. I understand some subsidies got cut and now a cabbage sells for $28. I think because you actually live on the base you get your room and board supplied for you. There's no economy on the south pole that I'm aware of though they probably have an overpriced tuck shop. Plus how would you pay for things? Satellite phone chip and pin?
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Sep 1, 2018 16:05
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