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Zore
Sep 21, 2010




ungulateman posted:

prisoner of azkaban is directed so much better than the other films that it doesn't even feel like it's part of the series

It has some absolutely baffling script omissions though.

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Zore
Sep 21, 2010




JethroMcB posted:

Am I misremembering, or do they completely gloss over why Harry thinks his dad saved him from the Dementor attack during the time turner sequence? My recollection is that he proclaims "MUST'VE BEEN MY DAD" just out of nowhere, with no mention of his connections to stags or anything to that point

Yep, they drop basically all exposition or info about the Marauders and don't ever mention that they made the map or why they became animagus etc. It flows very weirdly

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




josh04 posted:

By the time Azkaban was being made the books were a cultural phenomenon, cutting the gordian knot of "how do you adapt a ten-hour+ book into a two-hour film" with "gently caress it, everyone's read the books anyway" was extremely astute. Why make the films for a world where people are going to be shocked that Harry's dad made the Marauder's Map when that world no longer exists?

I mean Azkaban is a fairly short book and it would be trivial to insert a few sentences to actually explain things. It certainly wastes enough time on pointless repetitive conversations and inserting a racist scene that wasn't in the book.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




The last book clarifies that you can't actually summon food from nothing. It's why they spend most of their running time starving

Conjured food has no nutrition

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




SolarFire2 posted:

I always wondered why Harry and Hermione couldn't communicate during the summer just using email.

The series takes place from 1991-1998 which is well before the internet or even free email was ubiquitous.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




It also doesn't help that when they engage with magical stuff they usually ends up getting physically hosed up from it. Hagrid gives Dudley a pig's tail that needs to be surgically removed, then Marge gets turned into a loving balloon and flies out into the country, when the Weasleys come to pick Harry up for the Quidditch world cup the Twins slip Dudley candy that makes his tongue grow until Arthur can reverse it (at four feet long), then Dudley almost gets his soul sucked out by a Dementor and finally they need to spend a year in protective custody because someone wants to murder their nephew.

Like goddamn Dudley should have some serious scars from all that.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Ghost Leviathan posted:

There is a whole thing about how the prophesy Voldemort acted on was a bit of an either/or thing; Neville could have taken Harry's place as basically a coin flip on Voldemort's part.

It was also being used to show Voldemort's ideology was hollow.

He had the choice of two kids to go after, one who was a pureblooded wizard from a storied lineage while the other was a halfblood because Harry's mother was muggle-born. Despite everything that he ostensibly believed and taught about blood purity over all, Voldemort decided the half-blood was the bigger threat he had to handle personally.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

I haven’t read them since I was a kid so maybe I’m forgetting some nuance but “terror of death and refusal to accept it” always seemed like a weird motivation in a universe where everyone knows for a fact that there’s an afterlife and schoolkids are on a first-name basis with like 6 ghosts.

Maybe he’s scared of going to Wizard Hell

No one really knows what the afterlife is though, just that when you die you get a choice to go somewhere or stay on as a ghost.

And existence as a ghost is existentially horrifying based on how Rowling wrote everything to do with Nearly Headless Nick, the Grey Lady, and Binns.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Some Goon posted:

Did the books ever say where all the money came from? Were the Potters just rich as gently caress and Harry's the last of them? I don't remember them ever talking about James's family.

It doesn't directly though you do see that James is a spoiled rich kid growing up and we know the Evans were not rich.

JKR said in supplemental materials that the Potters were a poor pureblood family until his Grandfather invented the wizard equivalent of hair gel which was so popular they became like multi-millionaires off of it.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Butternubs posted:

Is the sorting hat sentient? does it just sit in a cupboard 364 days a year? is it's life a living hell? going by what we know of the HP universe the answer to all these is probably yes.

It is and it hangs out on a pedestal in the Headmaster's office.

At one point we see a memory of Dumbledore talking to it to try to make sure Harry hadn't been possessed by Voldemort during his first year.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




FunkyAl posted:

What does that mean though? Are they like horcruxes? Who is speaking, the person being painted, the artist, or is the painting its own entity?

The painting of Dumbledore says it's its own entity that has some, but not all of Dumbledore's memories and experiences.

It's like someone caught a snapshot of their personality that now has to exist in a painting for all time.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Yeah, like assuming you got the drop on a Wizard with a gun or missile you could kill them sure.

But Wizards hang out in places you literally can't know exist, have the ability to destroy memories, can teleport, have the ability to learn any information they want if they capture someone, can put someone under complete mind control etc.

An actual all out war would go so poorly for the non-magical people it wouldn't even be funny because magic is just insanely ridiculous bullshit.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Butternubs posted:

I think it's mentioned that some of them aren't even pureblood themselves and they get fake documents to state otherwise.

I mean, neither Voldemort or Snape was a pureblood.

Snape is particularly stupid about it because he nick-named himself 'The Half-Blood Prince' after his magical mother Eileen Prince (Tobias Snape was a Muggle). Voldemort at least lied out his rear end and made sure everyone thought he was a pureblood.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




amigolupus posted:

I never watched the movie, how bad was it?



Movies, plural.

And the second one ends with Wizard Hitler taking a strong stance against the actual Nazis while our heroes stand against him.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Hodgepodge posted:

^^^ oh good. like the magus looks more like a forest spirit than a person and marriage can be more like being chosen as the shaman or whatever for a god or spirit, in a context where everything isn't an excuse to be horny for kids


literally what got merlin in the end

Yeah there's absolutely no weird sex stuff at all.

They are absolutely building a very slow romance between Chitose and Elias (the forest spirit dude) though. They have a pretty hosed up and co-dependent relationship with the story mostly focusing on how broken Chitose is as a person while Elias is going through a fairly standard 'learning to be a person' arc.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Sydin posted:

Thanks for reminding me that for like half of book six every other page is "and then Harry and Hermione turned the corner and saw Ron and Lavender making out."

What book was it where Harry tried to catch his crush on the rebound and then stormed out of the date in a fit of rage because she wouldn't stop asking him about her ex getting murdered by Wizard Hitler? Five?

Yeah, that was five.

And he stormed out because she wouldn't stop crying and he absolutely could not handle someone crying around him.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




ungulateman posted:

eh, this feels uncharitable. he was also an emotional wreck after, you know, having the person in question die in front of him, because of his own stupid sense of 'fair play', so he probably didn't want to date someone who was going to spend a lot of time reopening both of their emotional wounds over it. it's one of the better cases of stupid teenagers not knowing what the hell they're doing in the series. it's nobody's fault.

I mean Harry being a dumb rear end in a top hat teenager in book 5 is a pretty explicit theme of the book, with the ending literally being that if he hadn't been such a petulant child Sirius would not have died. Its honestly some of the stronger writing in the series because of that.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Sydin posted:

You can't put that all on Harry though, Sirius IIRC was also acting like a petulant rear end in a top hat because the Order was rightly keeping him hidden, and he egged Harry on multiple times to do dumb poo poo and when Harry or his friends said no he'd get all sulky and go "Well I guess you're not as cool as James after all" which was exactly the thing to say to push Harry's buttons at that point in time.

Oh undoubtedly, Sirius had a really toxic relationship with Harry and handled everything really poorly. But he was also a man with arrested development from being in hell prison for the majority of his adult life before being forced to go and live in the home he grew up in where he was abused without ever being allowed to leave.

It was a bad situation all around, but Harry absolutely fed into it and made some really poor choices. And the ending drives home that there were about four or five things he could have done that would have avoided the worst case scenario if he had stopped just getting angry and lashing out.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Look, just be glad that JKR didn't actually write out the history of the other schools.

The one besides Hogwarts she did write out is insanely racist and has 4 completely magically uneducated British people create a North American school because British magic is just better than Native American magic

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




SlothfulCobra posted:

Hagrid was expelled from school for crimes he didn't commit (but was an easy fall guy for because of his ethnic heritage) and can barely function in either the wizard or muggle worlds. Filch was born without magic and had a wretched life.

I don't know if wizards have elementary schools, but it seems like one of the things Hermione has going for her is just a much better education going into Hogwarts than anyone else. It feels like the vast bulk of the characters in the books were just born into the wizarding world, you never hear about anybody else living a normal muggle life or having nonmagical parents.

Would Hogwarts even be academically accredited if it didn't have magical backing?

I mean there are several characters who had muggle lives before Hogwarts. Dean Thomas, Colin and Dennis Creevey, Justin Finch-Fletchy, Lily Potter, Tom Riddle, Ted Tonks etc all explicitly had regular and mundane childhoods before they discovered they were wizards. Its a fairly significant plot point for most of them.

Also in general they almost all completely subsume into the Wizarding World outside of like maybe also keeping up with their favorite football team.

Zore fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jun 10, 2020

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Yeah, Helga's mom is constantly slurring and falling asleep. There are a lot of really dark looks into Helga's home life where neither of her parents really care that much about her.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Ghost Leviathan posted:

Hey, that had Worf and Odo

And Chandler for some reason.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




TheAardvark posted:

every trained wizard has the know-how and recipe to make a love potion, i think we have to face the fact that the Harry Potter wizarding universe is filled to the brim with sex pests

I mean Voldemort is literally the product of a witch who uses a love potion to rape a muggle. Its super hosed up.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




josh04 posted:

I like the part where someone paints the wizard swastika in the sky and the ministry men immediately assume it was a house elf. Wizards are idiots.

I mean, Barty Crouch immediately accuses Winky because she's supposed to be controlling his invisible Death Eater son who he suspects is the person who actually did it iirc. And he is desperately trying to get people to not look into the fact that he's been housing a wanted criminal for 15 years.

Other people immediately buy it because they don't want to admit that Death Eaters still exist so they throw their slave scapegoat under the bus. Its incredibly realistic.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




FunkyAl posted:

What would happen to voldemort if he had killed harry potter? He wouldn't be able to come back again if somebody else killed him, unless there is anouther earth rending horcrux recovery spell

I mean he could just make more Horcruxes? He made 7 of the drat things.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Also to re-embody himself he needed at least part of his dead father. So like destroy the remains or hide them and its unclear he could come back at all.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




DrBouvenstein posted:

Was it ever explained that he HAD to use some sort of magically powerful item?

Diary
Locket
Ring
Ravenclaw Crown
Hufflepuff Cup
Nagani
Harry

It seems that the diary is the only one that's somewhat "normal", though being written by/in possession of a powerful wizard probably must have made it a little magical.

Could he not just horcrux up a couple of rocks and throw them in the loving ocean?

Yeah, Harry explicitly points this out when talking to Dumbledore about the Horcrux hunt and Dumbledore's answer is basically that Voldemort was such an egomaniac that he would never stoop to putting his soul in anything that wasn't personally significant to him.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Yeah, the sword was hidden in the Sorting Hat until Harry pulls it out in his second year. Then it gets put on display in the Headmaster's office etc.

It also didn't have the power to destroy Horcruxes until then because it absorbed basilisk venom when Harry killed it? Its a weird as hell detail the seventh book spends a lot of time on.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




SlothfulCobra posted:

I think I remember reading something where in the world of Harry Potter no magic folk died in witchhunts and they used a protection from fire spell that made the flames only tickle.

I liked Harry Potter more before they all hit puberty and had to act like the wizarding world was very serious.

Yeah, its one of the world building details back in book 1 when we got a half look into some of the classes. They did a lot of more lighthearted things like that initially.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Yeah, honestly Ron is legitimately the character who does most for House Elves out of anyone in the entire series since he is literally the only person to remember that they're at Hogwarts and that no one's told them there's about to be a big gently caress-off battle they should run away from.

It is an incredibly damning indictment of like every person in the series.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




TheAardvark posted:

you know it really sucks rear end that rowling turned out a transphobe

being like 10 when the first one got popular in the u.s. was amazing, the world was really magical, and every single person in my class read it, it was a huge shared experience

i read 4-7 on release night, straight through, every one of them, and they meant a lot to me. i didn't go out and get any tattoos of it or anything, but they were a fun ride for a young teenager


now i feel tainted rereading any of it because of her poo poo. gently caress you jk rowling

Yeah, same honestly. It was a really fun shared experience in my childhood that I had fond memories of and Rowling has completely ruined it in recent years

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Feldegast42 posted:

DH had so much drat padding, they should have just kept them in Hogwarts but hiding in the dark corners of the castle / the room of requirement and relying on polyjuice potion to not get their cover blown

Hell, the book would be a lot better if they just used Sirius Black's old pad as their base of operations

But them camping out in the middle of loving nowhere between major plot beats?

They do spend a couple weeks crashing at Grimmauld Place, they end up being forced to leave for some stupid reasons because camping was just that important to the story JKR wanted to tell.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Sydin posted:

Why did they have to bounce from Sirius' pad again? Some dumb technicality that made the new secret keeper a nazi or something?

When Dumbledore died everyone who knew about it became a Secret Keeper including Snape

Zore fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 17, 2020

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




The list of classes at Hogwarts is kind of insane

Potions
Transfiguration
Charms
Defense Against the Dark Arts
Herbology
Astronomy
History of Magic
Flying (which seems to just be a one and done first year course? Just teaching a bunch of 11 year olds to fly on a broom once. Its literally never mentioned again after the Remembrall scene in book 1)

Then the electives are

Care of Magical Creatures
Divination
Arithmancy
Muggle Studies
Ancient Runes
Apparition (again a like three week course when you're 17 akin to Driver's ed but with fewer standards and a ridiculous amount of bodily injury)


... That's it, that's literally all the classes offered at Hogwarts. Hermione got the ability to travel through time to take three extra classes.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




I also love that Harry and Ron choose to do blow off classes for their electives explicitly yet neither chooses to do Muggle Studies. You know despite Harry growing up as a muggle and Ron being inundated in all the muggle poo poo from his dad.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




That plus he's in reasonably good shape and athletic enough to like run and dodge.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




amigolupus posted:

IIRC, Ron thinks his dad is nuts for tinkering with muggle tech and isn't interested at all, while Harry asks what's even the point of taking Muggle Studies since he's lived as one until he got to Hogwarts.

It's really frustrating how Harry and Ron not only took the minimum number of electives, they also picked the ones that would give them the least amount of work, the lazy assholes. What's worse is that Divination and Care of Magical Creatures had no practical use to Harry for the Horcrux hunt. Meanwhile, I think Hermione taking Arithmancy and Ancient Runes was what helped her develop her bag of holding and those warding spells they used while camping.

I mean, Care of Magical creatures absolutely should have come in useful during the Horcrux hunt is the worst part. They ran into a ton of magical creatures like the Dragon in Gringotts where uh that came up.

But Rowling had the class mostly be an extended 3 book 'Hagrid is a terrible teacher' punchline so

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




SlothfulCobra posted:

Did he have any particular motivation for killing people with a snake at school?

He did that specifically to create his first Horcrux, Myrtle's death was what let him make the Diary.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Sydin posted:

The unfortunate implication with Voldy is that he seems to have been evil from the start, or at least a sociopath with zero empathy. He's introduced as a bully who uses his powers to terrorize others for seemingly no reason, he unleashes the Basilisk on his fellow students, and creates a clique of wizard nazis - seemingly not for their company - but rather as an extension of his own power and authority. It's also a plot point in Book 6 that he was very good at manipulating people and faking emotions, so he was also very popular but again seemed to take no pleasure in company, but rather the tangible things he could get from people.

I never really got the sense that anything "made" him evil, he was just evil from the start and the worst you could say about those around him in power is that they didn't seem to recognize this and try to do anything about it.


Voldemort is basically portrayed as exactly the opposite of Harry while in school (and wildly different from his whole 'imma idiot snek man' persona post-resurrection).

He's handsome, incredibly smart, popular and hardworking. The only two people who ever seem to have negative memories about him at school are Dumbledore, who feels weird from their first interactions, and Slughorn who told him about some dark and secret magic after a lot of buttering up. Literally no one else in the series has a negative thing to say about Tom Riddle because he was supposedly so charming and able to manipulate people.

Compare that to Harry who spends a huge chunk of the series as an angry loner and multi-year school pariah and can't even manage to go a full year without one of his two closest friends telling him to gently caress off for months. Harry's also only an average student at best and got a lot of negative attention and scrutiny.

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Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Barudak posted:

Neville also doesn't grow up to be a cop.

Wait; he becomes an Auror then becomes a professor of Herbology? gently caress, I guess AGAB

Yeah he and Ron both become wizard cops for like 5 years then go on to do actually useful things. Meanwhile Harry dedicates his life to becoming head cop and a terrible father

Cursed Child is some wild poo poo

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