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Randarkman posted:I thought Armenia had kind of cordial relations with Iran? They do, I just meant they're not exactly a major global ally to have considering their situation with a lot of the west. e: ^^^, thanks for the clarification, that actually sounds like a pretty good time. I want to play. Dusty Baker 2 fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 08:14
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Dolash posted:^^^^ Of all the reasons not to fight back during an invasion, maintaining the local environment is somewhat of a weak one. Actually it is a pretty strong one if you're going to maintain that you're the rightful owner of the harbour that you're gonna poo poo up. Because that would ostensibly make the people there your citizens, and you've just delivered a giant stinking turd on their doorstep. Do you think that this would make them more or less inclined to support you? Seriously people, while it might be satisfying on a visceral level for you to fantasize about the Ukraine going all scorced earth tactics on Crimea just to spite Russia, any poo poo like that would hand Putin an absolutely huge propaganda victory. Russia would start asking the common Crimean whether they'd be better of under Russia who wants to help them prosper or under Ukraine who's loving them over. And whay is Kiev goint to answer to that? That they're making GBS threads all over Crimea in the Crimean people's own best interests?
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Mar 26, 2014 09:46
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http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/ukrainian-women-have-launched-a-sex-strike-against-russian-men/284614/ So, uhm, that's in the news.
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Mar 26, 2014 10:20
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Paladinus posted:http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/ukrainian-women-have-launched-a-sex-strike-against-russian-men/284614/ I have to say Ukrainian women are really nice, so those are the most serious sanctions so far.
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Mar 26, 2014 11:17
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Ukrainians this morning are holding a press conference explaining the military exercises they will be holding jointly with several other countries. quote:Ukrainian-Polish exercises military police "Law and Order - 2014" Ukrainian-American exercise "Rapid Trident 2014 "Ukrainian-Polish exercises aviation units" Safe Skies 2014, "Ukrainian-American exercises" Sea Breeze 2014 "multinational exercise" Bright avalanche 2014 "multinational exercise mountain-infantry units" Karpaty 2014, "Ukrainian-Moldovan Romanian-exercises mechanized units "South-2014". http://comments.ua/politics/459392-turchinov-predlagaet-provesti-ukraine.html This means all of the countries listed will be granted permission to conduct training exercises in Ukraine. Sounds like fun.
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Mar 26, 2014 11:39
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Deteriorata posted:A group of secret infiltrators, whose job is to sabotage the enemy from within. Typically Fifth Columnists are not infiltrators, but rather sympathizers who take action. They may be supported or funded by infiltrators, but they are citizens of the place they're trying to undermine. So for the last few years, the situation in Afghanistan has gotten worse, and Karzai has been -even in the face of his own councils- ever more critical of the U.S., despite apparently receiving large cash payouts. So what does this have to do with Ukraine? Karzai is practically jizzing himself over Russian investment and increased involvement, in a nation that fervently hates Russians and still celebrates the anniversary of the eviction of the Russians every year with the fervor that the U.S. celebrates the 4th of July. To speak of Fifth Columns and FSB Infiltration, I wonder how  it is to think that the increased tensions since 2007 are the result of outside interference and agitation designed specifically to wear NATO and European allies and the U.S. down in anticipation of these moves in Georgia, the Ukraine, and where-ever else Russia has its eyes on? The 'Stans, which originally supported efforts in Afghanistan, have been slowly shutting down their support over the last five years as well, all ostensibly cozying up more to Russia. The U.S. and NATO and allies have responded a lot more slowly and less forcefully to Crimea, Ukraine and Georgia than they did to the Balkans.
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Mar 26, 2014 11:47
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My Q-Face posted:Typically Fifth Columnists are not infiltrators, but rather sympathizers who take action. They may be supported or funded by infiltrators, but they are citizens of the place they're trying to undermine. Exactly. They're also used during a war to support the invading army in creating chaos and havoc on the home front, lowering morale and tying up vital resources. Heh, also found this. It's from March 19th, but it's still worth a read for the laugh alone. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-pact-idUSBREA2I0O620140319 quote:Russia accused Western states of violating a pledge to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and political independence under a 1994 security assurance agreement, saying they had "indulged a coup d'etat" that ousted President Viktor Yanukovich last month. 
Dusty Baker 2 fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 12:38
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HellishWhiskers posted:Their best novel, imo, is by far "The Doomed City" which has never been translated to english - a drat, drat shame. It was translated into Estonian only very recently, I read it last summer. A terrific book, but I must say the ending was a disappointment. It felt a bit like Lost. Brilliant story and then you get that church scene in the end which made you question what the hell you spent doing the last six years. I mean the book ending wasn't nearly as bad, the principle stands. Back to the Eastern European themes. I spoke to a Russian who lives in Estonia a couple of days ago about her views and emotions on the Russia-Ukraine crisis. I think overall her opinions were very reasonable and balanced, although a vague sense of the persecution complex still weakly shined through at times. I think it's very deeply rooted in their psyche, despite one's place in the social hierarchy, economic and education status etc.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:33
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Ragingsheep posted:The Ukrainian Navy should've just scuttled its ships like the French fleet did at Toulon.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:58
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Kaal posted:You mean as opposed to if the invaders seize the ships and turns them against the Canadians? Ukraine is doing everything to avoid a war, so it isn't even going to come to that. My Q-Face posted:To speak of Fifth Columns and FSB Infiltration, I wonder how But that's probably too obvious. It must be those dastardly Russians undermining the glorious Western liberation force. CSM fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 16:03
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Thanks to Obama I had to wait half an hour to cross the street after my job interview in Brussels today. I am now opposed to NATO. Putin did nothing wrong.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:12
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Phlegmish posted:I am now opposed to NATO. Putin did nothing wrong. If you need, I can arrange you an interview with recruiter from United Russia.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:22
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CSM posted:Or people just dislike a violent occupation army. Yes, Violent Occupation Armies were okay for the first six years where everything was comparably peaceful, and nothing else changed.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:31
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New presidential polling data is out in Ukraine. Petro Poroshenko (Independent) - 24,9% Vitali Klitschko (UDAR) - 8,9% Julia Tymoshenko (YTB) - 8,2% Oleg Tyhanybok (Svoboda) - 1,7% Dymytro Yarosh (Right Sector) - 0,9% I think we can stop worrying over a Nationalist takeover in Kiev now. These are results from a survey of 6200 Ukrainians carried out March 14-19 of this year and published today. Poroshenko is a chocolate magnate and has worked under both Yushchenko's and Yanukovicz's governments in various capacities including Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Trade and Economic Development and Secretary General of the RNBU (Defense Council) and is by all accounts a centrist. edit: In other news, the Ukrainian fleet is down to 10 ships. Russia has taken 51. A Pale Horse fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 17:10
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A Pale Horse posted:New presidential polling data is out in Ukraine. What bothers me is that numbers only add up to less than 45%.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:15
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He forgot "someone who won't screw me over I don't care who it is - 55,4%"
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Mar 26, 2014 17:16
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SHISHKABOB posted:He forgot "someone who won't screw me over I don't care who it is - 55,4%" The obvious problem here is that no matter who wins, there'll be more than enough people to get another Maidan started. E: Never mind, Maidan is still going and won't probably take a break for presidential elections. http://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1322185-na-stolichnomu-maydani-posadili-gorod-ta-buduyut-svinarnik People grow vegetables and plan on raising pigs and chickens there. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 17:17
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If Vitali Klitschko won he could challenge Vladimir Putin on a duel to settle Crimean crisis man on man. Also he'd look awesome on any international meeting.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:21
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Paladinus posted:What bothers me is that numbers only add up to less than 45%. I wouldn't worry too much, I'm assuming there was an 'undecided' option as well. Though I'd still be interested in seeing how well the Party of Regions and Communist Party candidates score. e: can you post the source, Pale Horse?
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Mar 26, 2014 17:23
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Phlegmish posted:I wouldn't worry too much, I'm assuming there was an 'undecided' option as well. I'm sure there was such an option. Anyway, the source is in Polish so I threw it through google translate. quote:Former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and oligarch leads in the polls before the presidential elections in Ukraine on 25 May. According to a survey published on Wednesday will vote for almost 25 per cent . voters Poroshenko also have won in the second round . http://www.tvn24.pl/kto-bedzie-prezydentem-ukrainy-poroszenko-wyraznie-przed-kliczka-i-tymoszenko,411726,s.html Maybe one of our Ukrainian or Russian speaking brothers can try to find the article on Unian and maybe they have more information. edit: I don't know if its the same in Ukrainian but UDAR in Polish means stroke (which is why its in the translate). The medical condition, not the verb. 
A Pale Horse fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 17:30
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Paladinus posted:What bothers me is that numbers only add up to less than 45%. The other 55% is 'Putin'.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:33
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The silver lining to the Russian invasion from the pro-Western point of view is that they should have an easier time securing a majority with Crimea out of the picture and with the pro-Russian faction being mostly discredited. Are they still planning on having elections two months from now?
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Mar 26, 2014 17:39
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A Pale Horse posted:I'm sure there was such an option. Anyway, the source is in Polish so I threw it through google translate. UDAR here means punch in particular (and is a backronym as well) http://www.unian.net/politics/900779-ukraintsyi-rasskazali-za-kogo-budut-golosovat-na-vyiborah-prezidenta-opros.html It does have a few more candidates, as well as separate numbers for peole actually planning to vote. The eternal communist candidate Simnenko is at 3.6% Actually 2nd most popular choice is "against all", at 9.7% Wrt to Poroshenko, Russia has recently seized assets of his company in their territory on a shadey way. Edit: http://dumskaya.net/news/novyj-socopros-poroshenko-po-pregnemu-lidiruet-v-034094/ has a nice summary image. There are a lot of candidates, in part also because Party of Regions' situation is rather complicated right now. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 17:40
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Paladinus posted:What bothers me is that numbers only add up to less than 45%. Heh, that is rather disconcerting. I would take that poll with a very large, Russian sized grain of salt. As for "scuttle ships" chat. As one astute poster pointed out, it is possible to use up all the fuel, damage the engines, and sink the ships, while minimizing environmental impact. Also that harbor is loving grimy as hell already, you think the Russians and Ukrainians have been taking great care of it? I think scuttling them in that fashion would have been a pretty dramatic statement, as well as a huge pain in the rear end for the Russians who would have to deal with repair/removal. A good way to stick it to them, let the world know you are not OK with this, and prevent capture of assets. Seems largely a winning move to me, but perhaps they really believed the Russians would let them leave until it was too late.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:44
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Actually, if I'm interpreting the article correctly, the pro-Western parties have a comfortable majority among people who are planning on voting (the number between brackets). By the same metric the two Party of Regions candidates would only get 15% of the vote. With the 5% for Simonenko added, that's only 20% for the Russophile side.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:48
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OddObserver posted:UDAR here means punch in particular (and is a backronym as well) What is your opinion of Poroshenko OddObserver? My knowledge of Ukrainian oligarchs is very limited, is he seen as one of the good ones? Why is he apparently so popular?
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Mar 26, 2014 17:50
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Pobama posted:Heh, that is rather disconcerting. I would take that poll with a very large, Russian sized grain of salt. Hell, the Russians started the ship-sinking game in that harbor and I don't see the population getting that outraged about it. When you've been actively sold out and abandoned by the people of the port, it's hardly the time to worry about what the locals will think (outside of if the crews in question have local sympathies, although if they did they might've flipped to Russia on their own then).
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Mar 26, 2014 17:57
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I've pulled into a Russian port before and they don't give a gently caress about "environmental impact." They dump sewage directly in the water. On the other side of a peninsula, people were playing in said water. No fucks were given. The US ship couldn't just dump CHT in the water because policy is no dumping inside a certain distance from land and certainly not in port. So we paid for a CHT barge to tie up alongside for 5 days. They took our CHT and promptly dumped it right into the water.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:09
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A Pale Horse posted:What is your opinion of Poroshenko OddObserver? My knowledge of Ukrainian oligarchs is very limited, is he seen as one of the good ones? Why is he apparently so popular? I am too many years removed from living in Ukraine to have one. The comments on dumskaya in favor of him seem to range between him better than the rest of the candidates due to being kinda OK rather than just awful, to people viewing him outright positively as a competent centrist.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:10
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I'd vote for Klitschko, half ironically and half sincerely.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:11
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Obama about to speak on EU-US relations: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26750503
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Mar 26, 2014 18:13
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Phlegmish posted:I'd vote for Klitschko, half ironically and half sincerely. I think I might as well - he hasn't had the chance to become a corrupt oligarch yet, right? I mean, sure, make him President and there's a good chance he will, but it's better than starting with someone who is one already.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:14
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Dolash posted:I think I might as well - he hasn't had the chance to become a corrupt oligarch yet, right? I mean, sure, make him President and there's a good chance he will, but it's better than starting with someone who is one already. I think he has the least chances of being corrupt. He's valued at 65 million dollars already from his sports career and spent extensive time living in Germany so he may have shed the plunder and loot everything immediately mentality. The question is that he's not experienced enough and whether he's taken too many hits to the skull during his boxing career. Still, he's probably who I would vote for if I was Ukrainian.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:19
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Mr. Nice! posted:I've pulled into a Russian port before and they don't give a gently caress about "environmental impact." They dump sewage directly in the water. On the other side of a peninsula, people were playing in said water. No fucks were given. Their lack of fucks extends to radioactive waste too, it seems. Zapadnaya Litsa is apparently bad enough that at least Norway is starting to intervene out of concern.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:25
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ReidRansom posted:Their lack of fucks extends to radioactive waste too, it seems. Zapadnaya Litsa is apparently bad enough that at least Norway is starting to intervene out of concern. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems to become clear that the ships we're allowed to be captured not out of some strong top down orders from above to not resist or provoke, but due to a complete lack of any viable command structure. Basically the sailors we're scared, confused, and isolated. The government in Kiev, in so much as it is, let them down. Not a single officer on one of the ships took an ounce of initiative ether. The weakness and disorganization is so complete, it's hard not to imagine Putin salivating at what would seemingly be a cakewalk in taking more of the nation.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:30
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Our tough guys on the internet were stabbed in the back by the lack of competent initiative from actual people in charge.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:35
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iv46vi posted:Our tough guys on the internet were stabbed in the back by the lack of competent initiative from actual people in charge. I'm not sure pondering why no-one took the initiative to scuttle their own ships when it became clear the Russians were just going to seize them all counts as "tough guy" behavior. It's more symbolic than antagonizing.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:38
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loving LOL. The resigning prime minister of Estonia gave this memorial coin to his staff members: The coin has this memorial on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Soldier_of_Tallinn. He relocated it, which led to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night. The coin currency is "1 bone of contention". In light of current events, talk about stirring the pot.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:42
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Phlegmish posted:Actually, if I'm interpreting the article correctly, the pro-Western parties have a comfortable majority among people who are planning on voting (the number between brackets). By the same metric the two Party of Regions candidates would only get 15% of the vote. With the 5% for Simonenko added, that's only 20% for the Russophile side. I'd say the biggest number of russophiles should fall on undecided since there's no obvious pro-Russian candidate approved by Russia yet.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:53
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Paladinus posted:What bothers me is that numbers only add up to less than 45%. http://www.socis.kiev.ua/ua/press/rezultaty-sotsiolohichnoho-doslidzhennja-elektoralni-orijentatsiji-ukrajintsiv.html There are a number of other candidates the article leaves out, the actual numbers are 70.2% for various candidates, 14.1% unsure, and 15.5% either not voting or against all candidates.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:00
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