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 The roller on the (new) timing belt tensioner backed off on my A4 a few years ago, this is what you need to do to get access to it.  This is where the missing part was supposed to be.
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Aug 3, 2012 18:44
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Fucknag posted:You know, I was gonna post about the 4.6, which has 3 chains similarly arranged but all on one end of the motor, but then I went on GIS and I found this: It's not an if, it's a when on that motor. I've seen multiple friends go through it, with final bill ranging from $5-8k at the end.
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Aug 3, 2012 20:43
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Fucknag posted:You know, I was gonna post about the 4.6, which has 3 chains similarly arranged but all on one end of the motor, but then I went on GIS and I found this: Holy gently caress and I almost bought an '08 S4 Avant. Not too horrible, but here's the stock left rear strut that I sheared off of my Mazda3 at a track day last year. Gave me an excuse to upgrade. 
VERTiG0 fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 15:58
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DropShadow posted:It's not an if, it's a when on that motor. I've seen multiple friends go through it, with final bill ranging from $5-8k at the end.
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Aug 4, 2012 16:36
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Space Gopher posted:Performance at high RPMs or with tough valve springs was never a priority for that engine, and it doesn't have a chain on both ends of each camshaft. The design was based on an OHV engine, so there's a short timing chain that runs from the crank to where an OHV camshaft would be in the middle of the V. Then, on each end of the shaft-with-no-cams, there's a gear and a separate timing chain that runs up to the heads. One bank's chain is at the front of the engine, and the other bank's chain is at the back. Even better when you find out that the early designs of that engine had a faulty timing chain tensioning system including cheap plastic guide material prone to accelerated wear, insufficient support (for practical purposes: no support) for those crappy guides leading to stress fractures, and a tensioner design which used a combination of springs and engine oil pressure neither of which provided sufficient tension on its own. Oh and that tensioner, especially the rear one, was prone to losing its oil supply resulting in a noisy slack chain with bad timing at best and complete failure of the passenger side SOHC drive system at worst. The engine was of course an interference design and even if the chain or guides didn't break you could still easily end up with the exhaust valves saying hello to the pistons. Ford's "solution" was a recall where they replaced the tensioning parts with ones ever so slightly more durable to get the engine out of warranty before it inevitably failed. Add in having to pull the whole drat engine to replace the required parts and the common thinking that timing chains never need service (to be fair, the chains were normally fine, the supporting guides were the problem) and those engines do not have a sterling reliability reputation.
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Aug 4, 2012 21:54
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 I love you, Felix Wankel.
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Aug 4, 2012 23:39
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I don't care how loud they whine, I will never bitch about geared timing sets again.
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Aug 5, 2012 00:24
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on the other end of the spectrum Say what you will about their general lack of power and fuel economy, I love my inline 6 pushrod "tractor motors"  * known to go 200, 300, even 400 thousand miles on the OEM chain... and every other engine internal component, for that matter * $50 or so on RockAuto for a full timing set, takes a few hours to install, less if you bother to remove the radiator for a little extra working space * if you don't replace it and it snaps at some ridiculous mileage, the engine stops running. * non interference so slap another one on and put another few hundred thousand on it!
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Aug 5, 2012 00:49
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MiniFoo posted:I love you, Felix Wankel.
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Aug 5, 2012 01:48
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kastein posted:on the other end of the spectrum I'll second this. gently caress YEAH TRACTOR MOTORS. I have a Ranger with a 2.5 Lima (stroked 2.3L motor) and a Volvo 244 with the 230 redblock.
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Aug 5, 2012 02:03
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:I'll second this. gently caress YEAH TRACTOR MOTORS. 7 Jeep 4.0L I6s, an LDS-465, a Jeep 2.5L I4, two Chrysler 318 V8s, and a Chrysler 360 V8 here. The V8s might as well be tractor motors, they have the usual single cam in the lifter valley, a billion pushrods, and a little tiny timing chain just like the I6s.
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Aug 5, 2012 02:14
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kastein posted:on the other end of the spectrum Hell yeah! My 4.0 just hit 160,000 miles. I'm almost done breaking it in 
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Aug 5, 2012 02:35
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imgur's pool for "just rolled into the shop" has some really interesting failures.
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Aug 5, 2012 02:54
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Don't forget about the 3800 series motors. I don't think I've ever heard of a single timing chain issue with one of those. God bless push rod motors. When I was shopping for vehicle awhile back I had a brief infatuation with the Audi allroad wagons. A little research revealed the terrors of timing belt service and multi thousand dollar turbo repairs. Despite the Tupperware interior I've never regretted buying my GTP. drat thing is built like a tank and cheaper than anything to fix.
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Aug 5, 2012 03:20
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Seat Safety Switch posted:imgur's pool for "just rolled into the shop" has some really interesting failures. wow, only a couple in:  Says 709 on the top, AC line fittings on the rear of the compressor, coolant tube for heater core, battery placement, valve cover shape and material, and ignition wire location are all a direct match for... looks like a 95-96 Jeep Cherokee
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Aug 5, 2012 03:32
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Seat Safety Switch posted:imgur's pool for "just rolled into the shop" has some really interesting failures. I've had that happen before. Still held air afterwards! This is why you don't drive on a tire made in 1979 in the mid 1990s.
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Aug 5, 2012 04:41
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atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Aug 5, 2012 |
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Aug 5, 2012 06:01
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What the hell. How does that even happen? I'm guessing a crack between the belts and tread, allowing air to blow up the sidewall/tread rubber? Maybe this is why old Bridgestone tires used to have "BS" in a keystone proudly stamped on the side.
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Aug 5, 2012 06:06
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two forty posted:What the hell. How does that even happen? I'm guessing a crack between the belts and tread, allowing air to blow up the sidewall/tread rubber? Pretty much. Modern radials have 2 layers of rubber, the steel-reinforced outer layer with the radial belts and tread, and the inner liner that forms an airtight pressure vessel. The manufacturing process leaves a void between the two layers when they are pressed together. This is never noticed during normal tire use, but if you smack a curb at high speed it can crack the stiff inner liner and let air into that void, inflating the softer compound outer layer like you see there.
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Aug 5, 2012 06:11
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I wonder how quickly that bump formed and whether or not it took out the fender when it did.
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Aug 5, 2012 06:27
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Maybe not catastrophic, but it's definitely loving horrible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTFBFHtfg1Y&hd=1
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Aug 5, 2012 06:59
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Colonel Sanders posted:I don't care how loud they whine, I will never bitch about geared timing sets again. But that's the best part about them!
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Aug 5, 2012 17:45
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SlapActionJackson posted:My considered opinion on this matter after working on my wife's passat and observing some all around terrible design choices (this is a vehicle that made me tool-throwing angry while trying to change the battery) is that VW only hires the automotive engineers that weren't good enough to work for BMW, Porsche, or Mercedes. I think Audi's problem was halting production on the 2.2l and 2.3l Inline 5s
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Aug 5, 2012 17:56
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More like a horrible design failure.  Swedish car magazine "Teknikens Värld" puts the Jeep Grand Cherokee through a standard 70kph (43mph) evasion test. All three sample cars fail horribly, and in 7 of the tries they even blow a front tire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaYFLb8WMGM
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Aug 5, 2012 18:33
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wow, they put independent front and rear suspension on it, thus making it much more difficult to build for offroad performance, and they still can't make it handle on the road? I have to agree.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:39
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kastein posted:wow, they put independent front and rear suspension on it, thus making it much more difficult to build for offroad performance, and they still can't make it handle on the road? Wow. That was terrible. The Volvo and VW did awesome though.
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Aug 5, 2012 18:51
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Wow, the Yeep is a disaster. Blowing tires like a boss.
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Aug 5, 2012 19:34
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Here's a really good writeup of the fallout from that test sequence. It seems the initial test that caused a near rollover was run at 100kg under maximum cargo capacity as rated by Chrysler, however the curb weight specification of the truck were not correct so it ended up being over gross vehicle weight by around 60kg. Chrysler has seized on this and nearly every statement they put out hints at overloading. Chrysler also claims they ran their own "moose test" and didn't see any trouble, but they don't say it is the same test as run by the Swedish magazine and won't release the information about the layout of the test or show video so there is no way to know what that means. Despite this the newer tests run by the magazine which are linked above still look awful when run at the new cargo/passenger capacity of 470kg. Chrysler claims the tests vindicate them because the handling wasn't quite as bad a before, but to me it looks like the truck is just bouncing out of control. Can you imagine if some of the weight had been on the roof for example, instead of being sandbags? Shifty Pony fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 5, 2012 |
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Aug 5, 2012 19:51
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Chrysler's response is pretty funny.quote:During the evaluation, the publication was able to capture images of a Grand Cherokee on two wheels as it performed an extreme maneuver in an overloaded condition.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:25
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Collateral Damage posted:Chrysler's response is pretty funny. Honestly, Chrysler's response makes them sound like a bond villain: "Do you expect me to do extreme maneuvers, Mr. Chrysler?" "No, Mr. Jeep. I expect you to die..."
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Aug 5, 2012 20:38
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I guess the moral of the story is, don't transport five people along with just enough sandbags to go over the load limit in a Jeep Grand Cherokee if you live in a place where there are lots of Moose and not a lot of tires.
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Aug 5, 2012 20:51
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NOTinuyasha posted:I guess the moral of the story is, don't transport ... in a Jeep Grand Cherokee .....
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Aug 5, 2012 21:16
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 How the gently caress does this happen?!
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Aug 5, 2012 21:32
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Ask Sebastien Buemi
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Aug 5, 2012 21:53
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kastein posted:wow, only a couple in: If you wanna pick jeep parts out of that gallery, this looks an awful lot like a 4.0 water pump that went until the impeller rusted off! 
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Aug 5, 2012 21:55
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Collateral Damage posted:More like a horrible design failure.
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Aug 5, 2012 21:58
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obso posted:If you wanna pick jeep parts out of that gallery, this looks an awful lot like a 4.0 water pump that went until the impeller rusted off! similar, but not quite. It's got a different water outlet tube, the impeller pulley flange is too tall, and that strange boss/protrusion on the housing that stands up next to the pulley. It MIGHT be a 258 water pump, but I'm not sure.
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Aug 5, 2012 22:48
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obso posted:If you wanna pick jeep parts out of that gallery, this looks an awful lot like a 4.0 water pump that went until the impeller rusted off! And THAT is why you change your coolant.
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Aug 5, 2012 22:51
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Tekne posted:Finally, Germany's Auto Motor und Sport ran their ISO standard moose test and couldn't destabilize the Jeep with any load even up to maximum weight, which is curious when you combine that with Teknikens Värld inability to produce these results when Chrysler's engineers were present. Either way I'm sure this will get more media attention as it develops and we'll just have to wait and see.
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Aug 5, 2012 22:58
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Also, we have been here before. Consumer Reports tried it on with the Isuzu Trooper in the nineties, and Isuzu hit back with a proper analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZBh3zxxOqw
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Aug 5, 2012 23:10
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