Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

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Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Here's an offroad comparison.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/129_1301_the_ultimate_factory_4x4_shootout/photo_01.html

- The Ram is so big. :3:

They need a 6l+ engine to match the Ford though.
- Does GM really not have anything that competes in this segment?

# ? Nov 15, 2012 18:02

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# ? May 14, 2024 16:47

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Throatwarbler posted:

Here's an offroad comparison.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/129_1301_the_ultimate_factory_4x4_shootout/photo_01.html

- The Ram is so big. They need a 6l+ engine to match the Ford though.
- Does GM really not have anything that competes in this segment?

quote:

General Motors was also invited, but declined to participate in our test.

Also, the "forward-facing camera" option on the Ford is kind of hilarious. The trucks are getting so big and tall, you actually need a camera in the front to go off-road.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 15, 2012

# ? Nov 15, 2012 18:04

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

In Chrysler news:

quote:

Editor's note: Corrects fuel economy reference to Fiat 500.

TURIN, Italy -- For Chrysler-Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne, these are the best of times and the worst of times.

While Fiat is being hammered by the economic turmoil in Europe, Chrysler continues to pile up profits and rack up market share gains in the United States.

Dealing with the problems in Europe is a priority these days.

"We need to get this issue under control," Marchionne said.

As for the United States, he said: "I feel a lot more comfortable with the Chrysler of today than I did two years ago."

Meanwhile, several key new products are in the works. The redesigned Chrysler 200 enters the crucial mid-sized sedan segment next year, and plans for a Chrysler 100 compact are close to being approved.

Chrysler's main problem is lack of capacity, Marchionne said.

Marchionne, 60, was interviewed by Automotive News Europe Editor-in-Chief Luca Ciferri.

Q: Europe is in a deep recession. Do you fear that it will spread across the globe next year?

A: No. I think there's a vested interest from global economies to make sure that does not happen. If you look at the level of interface between the other economic powers and the European Union over the last two years, you realize that this issue is being looked at in a very proactive manner.

As chairman of the European automaker association, you called on the European Union to coordinate efforts to reduce capacity. That did not work, and now every country and every automaker will go on its own. What are the risks?

That you're going to see state intervention to protect national entities, which will not necessarily benefit the notion of a single European market. The fundamental underpinning of the European Union is the creation of a single market. If you allow state intervention to effectively bias competition by providing subventions, then you've got a big issue.

Is your plan to merge Fiat and Chrysler into a single legal entity by 2014 still on track?

It's on track. It's an inevitable move.

Does the priority now go to relaunching Europe?

By far. It's the biggest drain on our resources both in terms of earnings and in terms of commitment going forward. So we need to get this issue under control. It cannot stay the way it is. It's unthinkable.

This year you expect to sell about 4.2 million units, up from 4 million last year. What will the split be between Fiat and Chrysler?

Chrysler right now is going to be 2.4 million; the rest is Fiat.

Next year?

We should be slightly north of 4.3 million, with 2.6 million from Chrysler. This is still a rough guess. It depends a lot on what will happen to the European market.

Chrysler has almost reached full capacity. How much can you expand it without increasing fixed costs?

If you look at the Harbour index, the 2.4 million units we plan on building this year represent about 107 percent utilization from 92 percent last year. If you look at it technically -- three shifts for 265 days -- we've got capacity left in the system. We are at 73 percent technical from 60 percent last year. The problem is that technical capacity is not evenly distributed, as there are some plants not running flat out and some other already running flat out.

What do you have in mind for the 2013 Super Bowl commercial? Can you outdo the 2011 and 2012 spots that received so much attention?

We're going to do something, but to forecast the quality of that advertising today it's an impossible task.

With the new Chrysler 200 debuting at the Detroit auto show in January, the brand will have a state-of-the-art product in the largest passenger-car segment in the United States. What do you expect?

Success. I just want a piece of the largest passenger-car segment, biggest in retail by far. The size of this piece should be in line with our market share and what we've been getting out of the U.S.

What can you say about the Chrysler 100?

The 100 is a great idea to provide dealers in the U.S. with two options in the compact segment [besides the Dodge Dart sedan]. We've been encouraged by what I've seen happen with the Ford Focus. I think we're debunking a lot of the myth about hatchbacks not being sellable in the U.S. And the great thing about hatches is that they have applications outside the U.S.

So the Chrysler 100 could come to Europe as the new Lancia Delta?

If it gets produced, the answer is yes.

Has the 100 been signed off for production?

It's pretty well done, but it's not signed off yet.

All Chryslers rebadged as Lancias in Europe -- the 300/Thema, 200/Flavia and Town & Country/Voyager -- have sold poorly. Why?

Unless you're really premium, selling a large sedan in this market is tough, especially in Italy. With the economic conditions that we're facing, this is a small market not only for us, but for everybody. Having said that, the Thema -- regardless of how well it has performed -- for value-for-money is unbeatable in that segment.

You were expecting a six-digit annual sales figure for the Dodge Dart. Where do you stand?

We launched the car with a manual transmission. The automatic -- sourced overseas -- came in the third quarter, so the car effectively started rolling out at the end of the third quarter. We installed a dual dry clutch with the 1.4-liter engine. So let's get the full complement of engines and transmissions out there, and then we'll see. The car is a viable product for sure and the target is unchanged.

Do you plan to offer sliding doors for the Chrysler Town & Country minivan replacement and traditional doors on a crossover to replace the Dodge Grand Caravan?

This is how I view it, but forget about my preference. Those are big issues, and we need to find out in the marketplace what works. We are having customer clinics right now.

After a ruling from the clinics, how long before you put them into production?

If the products we have right now were well-received in the clinics, we could be in production within 21 months because the new architecture is done.

As a fuel-sipping minicar, the Fiat 500 did not take off in the United States. After adding an Abarth sporty range and a powerful turbo engine also on the standard model, the 500 became a hot seller. What really happened?

We put the right people in charge of the brand. The car was there, all the elements for success in the U.S. were there. We have people that are managing the brand in a different way now.

So it was more a people issue than a brand or product issue?

Oh, by far, yes. The credibility of the 500 was established in 1957. We revived it in 2007. The car has always been a viable brand within a brand.

Jeep has become Chrysler Group's No. 1 brand this year and is growing faster than the expectation, which was to surpass 800,000 sales by 2014. Can Jeep go over a million?

It needs to, but it requires a longer time frame. I don't even have that capacity right now, but the brand is capable.

Will you build the Maserati Levante in Mirafiori, Italy, in order to free more capacity at the Jefferson North plant in Detroit for the Jeep Grand Wagoneer arrival?

Correct. But a lot of the shared underpinnings will come from the U.S.

Do you plan to build some Jeep models in China for local consumption?

That's basically the story -- localized Jeeps that I would not otherwise be able to produce out of the U.S.

That means basically the compact and mid-sized Jeeps, with Wrangler and Grand Cherokee remaining in the United States?

Yes, those are U.S. installations that will never go anywhere. We can do CKD units, but all the components are coming out of one place.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121112/OEM02/311129995#ixzz2CJSuCev3

# ? Nov 15, 2012 18:22

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

PT6A posted:

I can only speak for Canada (and perhaps only Western Canada at that), but surveys have shown that the F-150 was the vehicle most commonly purchased and driven by millionaires. It may seem counterintuitive, but (a part of) the market that buys F-150s has tonnes of money. I don't know if this holds true to the same degree with other pickups and SUVs. The Escalade-V wouldn't be an acceptable choice for a rich guy looking to fly below the radar, whereas a luxury F-150 fits the bill perfectly.

I can see this. There's a very wealthy CEO that works in my office building and he owns several cars. On really nice days you'll see his Audi R8 parked in his spot, other days he has a Mini S, and recently an F-150 Platinum has been parked in there. Haven't seen the Mini or R8 since he got the F-150.

# ? Nov 15, 2012 19:11

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

sim posted:

Why can't we get some more hot hatches over here? Not only is Mercedes not bringing the 350 hp AWD A45 AMG hatch, they're likely not importing any hatchback version of the A class. I've been car shopping for a performance hatch with an automatic transmission and the list is pretty much: GTI, A3. No BMW M135i for us, no RS3, and now we get skipped over by Mercedes. Apparently they will make a watered down, crossover version of the A class. Bleh.

I think the prices the A45 AMG and RS3 would come in at would lead to absolutely abysmal sales. I'm a hatch fan and haven't owned anything that wasn't a hatch or a convertible version of a hatch in drat near 10 years but would have a serious issue ponying up the $40k+ that those would come in at. Hell, the Golf R is way too much.

# ? Nov 15, 2012 19:12

sim: Sep 24, 2003

Yeah, you're probably right about the price. It would be nice though if there were more options at the intersection of price, performance, and luxury that VW hits with the GTI. I'm really hoping the Focus ST does well enough to get other manufacturers interested in that segment.

# ? Nov 15, 2012 20:09

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

The problem is that at Autobahn package price levels on the GTI you're bumping up real close to a lot of entry-lux things. I know the availability of cheap 128s made it kind of a no brainer between the GTI and the 1 - and I think the same might be true for a lot of people who aren't wedded to the hatchback.

# ? Nov 16, 2012 00:12

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Ford has tested the absolute hell out of the Ecoboost stuff. I remember reading an article where they intentionally did things like killing the engine with white-hot turbos, running them on contaminated gas, low oil pressure, etc. They also did that line of "EcoBoost torture test" videos.

The only thing I can really think of as a problem is the turbos cast into the exhaust manifold but maybe they've changed that. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem for Livernois to pop them out and replace them with bigger units.

Yeah, they put the same Ecoboost through all kinds of hell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lToZuwbQhLk

165k miles of use, including tons of full-throttle time, and still came back on the dyno with as-new power.

# ? Nov 16, 2012 00:40

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Here's the whole teardown, while we're on that topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG6xZ3e4_pI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L8rEGAGMJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2d_Y1bmKI

# ? Nov 16, 2012 00:52

angryhampster: Oct 21, 2005

travisray2004 posted:

I honestly think the Juke is quite nice looking. At least from the back. The front isn't my cup of tea but it's definitely no Aztek.

I agree. I think they nailed it with the overall shape. I like it the same reason I like the XV Crosstrek. It's just kinda weird.

# ? Nov 16, 2012 04:10

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

angryhampster posted:

I agree. I think they nailed it with the overall shape. I like it the same reason I like the XV Crosstrek. It's just kinda weird.

Not gonna lie, if the XV gets some better engine options I'll seriously consider ditching my brand new Golf for one.

# ? Nov 16, 2012 05:21

eames: May 9, 2009

The new cayman as leaked on instagram. I like it.
I wish they would put a detuned 380 hp version of the 3.8L flat six in there, in good old 914/6 fashion. What a beast that would be.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 01:24

Friar Zucchini: Aug 6, 2010

So apparently Honda got the message when people complained about the 2012 Civic. Thy've released some preview photos of the new one, and it actually looks decent.

...But then again, I love the new Accord, and I gather that most people here hate how it looks, so take that with a grain of salt.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 03:46

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

eames posted:

The new cayman as leaked on instagram. I like it.
I wish they would put a detuned 380 hp version of the 3.8L flat six in there, in good old 914/6 fashion. What a beast that would be.

Detuned, hell; 981S should use the same engine as the 991S. And there NEEDS to be a Cayman GT3! I dunno about the looks; the new Boxster looks sharp, but I think I like the 997 Cayman better.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 11:57

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

grover posted:

Detuned, hell; 981S should use the same engine as the 991S. And there NEEDS to be a Cayman GT3! I dunno about the looks; the new Boxster looks sharp, but I think I like the 997 Cayman better.

I agree, for whatever reason, the new design really suits the boxter but leaves the Cayman a bit of an ugly duckling. It was the best looking Porsche in the old skin imo, now I'd put it third after the 911.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 15:21

quackman: Jan 25, 2004; Chapstick

I love the bigger, Carrera-GTesque side scoop that's on the new Boxster and now Cayman. Though the Cayman does look a bit frumpy in these leaked photos.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 15:41

Q_res: Oct 29, 2005; We're fucking built for this shit!

From the rear-3/4 view it looks almost cartoonish, I think. I'd almost expect that to be the "Oh, that's supposed to be a Cayman" car from GTA V.

vvv Pretty much.

Q_res fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Nov 17, 2012

# ? Nov 17, 2012 16:20

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

It's the horrendous Panamera tailights.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 16:27

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Friar Zucchini posted:

So apparently Honda got the message when people complained about the 2012 Civic. Thy've released some preview photos of the new one, and it actually looks decent.

...But then again, I love the new Accord, and I gather that most people here hate how it looks, so take that with a grain of salt.

That sure is A Car. I don't know if they could've made it any more generic-looking.

But it doesn't look actively bad, which represents an improvement.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 16:44

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Why do automakers still insist on putting fake chrome on everything? Just do body-colour matte or something.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 16:49

Bob NewSCART: Feb 1, 2012; Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

I can't believe how hard Honda hosed up the design of the civic. The 2008/9 design style was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen and civics used to be just cool looking. Accords have been pretty decent all the way through though

# ? Nov 17, 2012 17:31

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Why do automakers still insist on putting fake chrome on everything? Just do body-colour matte or something.

Because people are magpies & are attracted to shiny poo poo. Unfortunately.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 18:49

Faerunner: Dec 31, 2007

That faux chrome plastic on the latest generation of Hondas is especially terrible.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 19:00

MrChips: Jun 10, 2005; FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

PT6A posted:

That sure is A Car. I don't know if they could've made it any more generic-looking.

But it doesn't look actively bad, which represents an improvement.

The appearance wasn't even the worst part; how the cars drove (and still drive) is the biggest problem with post-2005 Civics. Honda cheaped out on the suspension and powertrain of the car and didn't really update anything; now, instead of being the choice in class for a keen driver, they're arguably at or near the bottom of the class.

I mean, even my mother said the new Civic drives like it's a downgrade from her 2002 model.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 19:27

Guinness: Sep 15, 2004

Cakefool posted:

Because people are magpies & are attracted to shiny poo poo. Unfortunately.

This was readily apparent at the auto show I just went to. Seems like half of the new cars on the market are littered with faux-chrome plastic, high-gloss finishes that show every fingerprint and speck of dust, and bright obnoxiously colored LEDs in the dash/cluster. It's horrendous. Apparently there's no such thing as understated or class anymore.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 21:09

The Jabberwocky: May 31, 2006; At least it worked.

Faerunner posted:

That faux chrome plastic on the latest generation of Hondas is especially terrible.

The faux chrome on everything is terrible. If I could pick one thing to toss from the last few generations of everything under 50k or so, it would be that. My Outback is a great looking car, but it has the horrendous plastichrome grill, and I hate it every time I see it. Just making it black or body color would make basically all uses of it look infinitely better.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 22:09

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

The Jabberwocky posted:

The faux chrome on everything is terrible. If I could pick one thing to toss from the last few generations of everything under 50k or so, it would be that. My Outback is a great looking car, but it has the horrendous plastichrome grill, and I hate it every time I see it. Just making it black or body color would make basically all uses of it look infinitely better.

The best part is, 10 years ago the "chrome package" was an extra $$$ add-on. now you have to pay more to get it off.

Here's the $30,000 f-150 xlt

and the $40,000 f-150 FX4

# ? Nov 17, 2012 22:14

Elem7: Apr 12, 2003; der; Dinosaur Gum

The most depressing thing about the new Civic is the fact that it's relatively outclassed compared to everything else in its class and that still hasn't seemed to impact the sales one bit, it's still a huge hit.

Toyota or Honda could release giant turds for cars and the intertia of public perception would still have them selling like crazy.That's not to say that I think they're current lineups are turds, just not especially good compared to cars that don't sell nearly as much from other manufacturers.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 22:16

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

I agree that I don't like chrome on a modern car, but I find it amusing that everyone is calling it faux chrome. It isn't. It's real chrome. They just chromed a plastic part rather than a metal one.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 22:35

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

How do you chrome a plastic part? I was under the impression it was just paint, or at best some sort of powdercoat.

e: Dur. Electroplating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czTjYlsct_k

# ? Nov 17, 2012 22:45

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

The Jabberwocky posted:

The faux chrome on everything is terrible. If I could pick one thing to toss from the last few generations of everything under 50k or so, it would be that.

As much as I hate plasti-chrome, I'd rather lose loving fairy lights.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 22:57

Faerunner: Dec 31, 2007

MrChips posted:

The appearance wasn't even the worst part; how the cars drove (and still drive) is the biggest problem with post-2005 Civics. Honda cheaped out on the suspension and powertrain of the car and didn't really update anything; now, instead of being the choice in class for a keen driver, they're arguably at or near the bottom of the class.

I mean, even my mother said the new Civic drives like it's a downgrade from her 2002 model.

Yeah, we had an '05 coupe and it was amazing. I test drove a '12 and... eh, just not there. And despite only being like 1.5" bigger it looks and feels huge by comparison, which is a major downside.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 23:10

Hollis Brown: Oct 17, 2004; It's like people only do things because they get paid, and that's just really sad

The Jabberwocky posted:

The faux chrome on everything is terrible. If I could pick one thing to toss from the last few generations of everything under 50k or so, it would be that. My Outback is a great looking car, but it has the horrendous plastichrome grill, and I hate it every time I see it. Just making it black or body color would make basically all uses of it look infinitely better.

Look into plasti-dipping your grill. It's a fairly common mod so there's guides out there. Certainly if you hate the grill every time you see it, it's worth doing.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 23:31

Devyl: Mar 27, 2005; It slices!

It dices!

It makes Julienne fries!

Because we can't post memes I'll just link it. Honda built their empire here in the U.S. on cheap, affordable cars that were inexpensive to fix. It looks like with the new styling, they're trying to reach out to the "wealthier" crowd. They just need to get some new designers in there and they might actually have something.

# ? Nov 17, 2012 23:42

dissss: Nov 10, 2007; I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

MrChips posted:

I mean, even my mother said the new Civic drives like it's a downgrade from her 2002 model.

From a 95-2000 model sure. The next shape on had already lost any form of driving enjoyment the older cars had.

Anyway I can't speak for the US market models, but both the hatch and sedan both remain relatively competitive where I am.

# ? Nov 18, 2012 00:32

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

So the 2012 Honda Civic is a single year orphan model then. Good thing Honda have that high resale value going for them. :catdrugs:

New Maserati Quattroporte.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/maserati-quattrporte-2014.html

The front of the car is a bit strange looking but I like the back. Not sure if those engine specs are confirmed, no one else seems to be reporting on it.

# ? Nov 18, 2012 03:10

dissss: Nov 10, 2007; I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Throatwarbler posted:

So the 2012 Honda Civic is a single year orphan model then.

Because they subtly changed the lights and front bumper?

# ? Nov 18, 2012 06:23

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

dissss posted:

Because they subtly changed the lights and front bumper?

Yes? Although I thought they changed up the interior and suspension too.

# ? Nov 18, 2012 06:32

Tekne: Feb 15, 2012; It's-a me, motherfucker

Guinness posted:

This was readily apparent at the auto show I just went to. Seems like half of the new cars on the market are littered with faux-chrome plastic, high-gloss finishes that show every fingerprint and speck of dust, and bright obnoxiously colored LEDs in the dash/cluster. It's horrendous. Apparently there's no such thing as understated or class anymore.

Seriously, your interior shouldn't remind the driver of a poorly decorated Christmas tree, especially with the amount of money the major companies spend on design. On the flip side, I like how Chrysler captured Saint Elmo's Fire just to light 300 cabins.

Not shown are the blue lit door handles and ethereal cupholders.

# ? Nov 18, 2012 07:42

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# ? May 14, 2024 16:47

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

Throatwarbler posted:

New Maserati Quattroporte.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/maserati-quattrporte-2014.html

The front of the car is a bit strange looking but I like the back. Not sure if those engine specs are confirmed, no one else seems to be reporting on it.

The front of the old one looked a bit strange too, but still managed to look classy as hell. Personally I think those tail lights on the new one look a bit generic. I guess they're trying to bring the design language more in line with the Granturismo though.

# ? Nov 18, 2012 11:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

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