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poo poo, I meant the fireball v6 birthed the 3800, which is from the 1961 "Buick small block-v8". You know what I mean. Still a 50 year old motor. They made 25 million of the things.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 09:46 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 07:29 |
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Geirskogul posted:Smooth? Bitch it's a 90 degree v6 derived from cutting two cylinders off of the Fireball V8, attached to a 60 degree bellhousing, and has the biggest loving harmonic balancer I've ever seen on a passenger car to compensate for its roughness. Yes but the sound of the supercharger in the later models was heavenly. My friend had a supercharged Buick we would troll people in. I loved spanking ricers in a grandpa spec supercharged regal.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 16:39 |
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SouthsideSaint posted:Yes but the sound of the supercharger in the later models was heavenly. My friend had a supercharged Buick we would troll people in. I loved spanking ricers in a grandpa spec supercharged regal. The highest horsepower version in a Buick was the supercharged series II, which made 240hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, from 1996.5 to 2005, in the high-spec Park Avenue. That car weighs well over two tons. While 240 hp is no slouch, and while I also love 3800 stories, they must have either been lovely ricers (but I repeat myself), or you "trolled" them the same way I "win" my commute: the other parties simply don't know that they're participating. The supercharger does sound nice, though. Especially from a grandpa car.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 16:52 |
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Geirskogul posted:The highest horsepower version in a Buick was the supercharged series II, which made 240hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, from 1996.5 to 2005, in the high-spec Park Avenue. That car weighs well over two tons. While 240 hp is no slouch, and while I also love 3800 stories, they must have either been lovely ricers (but I repeat myself), or you "trolled" them the same way I "win" my commute: the other parties simply don't know that they're participating. ohh your exactly right about the ricers. I live outside of Chicago and EVERYONE who owns a civic thinks they have a toretto ten second special. So they are more then willing to do a stoplight to stoplight race at 2am. P.s. most of this was done when I was 16 . and most of the ricers around here have stock cars with SO MANY STICKERS!!! for all the added horsepower of course.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 17:25 |
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Geirskogul posted:Smooth? Bitch it's a 90 degree v6 derived from cutting two cylinders off of the Fireball V8, attached to a 60 degree bellhousing, and has the biggest loving harmonic balancer I've ever seen on a passenger car to compensate for its roughness. The result is still smooth even with the planet sized balancer. They also had amazingly polarized fuel economy. It would chew gas in the city and turn 30+ mpg on the highway.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 17:35 |
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I guess this is what happens when you drink and pass out before you can drive (dude falls asleep with his foot on the gas) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EhyT1l3JM
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 18:42 |
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Timing chain chat: Actually helped my uncle replace the engine in an Explorer with that particular engine. The old block and/or head had a crack, and he got a used engine cheap. He double checked everything well before he put the "new" engine in the car.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 22:23 |
8ender posted:The result is still smooth even with the planet sized balancer. They also had amazingly polarized fuel economy. It would chew gas in the city and turn 30+ mpg on the highway. Being mated to a 3 or 4 speed auto most of the time probably didn't help. The 5 speed manual as found in various 90's holdens is excellent on fuel.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 23:02 |
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Fucknag posted:Looks like the last 3800 S-III rolled off the line in 08. So drat near 50 years. I never realized it was the same engine family. Goddamn. That's SBC territory.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 23:39 |
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RandomPauI posted:Are Saturn Ion's regarded as reliable? Slavvy posted:STR needs to appear with a flash and a spontaneous cloud of smoke right now. *poof* Depends on the year and transmission. They're essentially a Chevy Cobalt with a different body, except for the automatic transmissions on 03-04. For the coupes: avoid 03-04 automatics, period - they're GM's first CVT, and you're lucky to get 75k out of the transaxle. For the sedans: 03-04 automatics had a 5 speed Aisin-Warner automatic; people didn't like how it shifted, so 05+ (on both sedan and coupe) got a GM 4 speed automatic. The Aisin-Warner is actually pretty durable; the GM auto tends to take awhile to downshift when you stomp on it. The manual transmission is the same one used behind pretty much every FWD GM 4 cylinder for ages - it's a Getrag F23. It feels like you're shifting through gravel, but it'll last forever as long as you don't beat on it. It takes 2 quarts of automatic transmission fluid (yeah I know, sounds weird) to do a drain/fill on it, though the drain plug is a pain to get to; something I've been meaning to do for about a year now. Common issues are the ignition switch and lock cylinder (there's a recall for both right now), power steering assist motor (also covered by a recall), coolant level sensor (it's in the overflow tank, a brand new OEM tank is less than $50 on Amazon and takes about 30 minutes to swap), and the timing chain tensioner. The timing chain tensioner is a surprisingly easy job; it bolts into the firewall side of the engine just behind the timing chain cover, you just have to be very careful not to let any parts of it escape when removing the original (it has springs and stuff). Oh, almost forgot, if the immobilizer light is on, it means part of the ignition switch has failed, and the seller cut a wire to bypass it (it'll also be showing a service vehicle message on the odometer when started, pressing the trip odometer reset button gets rid of the message). The 03-04 has an ugly as gently caress steering wheel, while the 05+ has a nice 4 spoke steering wheel. 06-07 gets you a factory radio with an aux input. All 3 engines offered are pretty bulletproof. The 2.0 supercharged was only offered in the Red Line (Tusen Takk can tell you more about that); the 2.2 is the most common. If you run across one with a 2.4, it'll actually be somewhat quick, as they're fairly light cars for their size. 2007 got VVTi on both the 2.2 and 2.4; 2007 was also the last year they were made. On the coupe, the plastic trim on the front doors (behind the window) WILL break off eventually. I've had both break on mine; they're still available brand new from gmpartscenter.net for less than you'd pay for one in a junkyard. If you get one (or any GM really), change the coolant immediately. The factory fill was "10 years/150k miles" DexCool, but it turns pretty acidic if you actually listen to that. There's nothing wrong with replacing it with DexCool, as long as you change it every 3-5 years; if you switch to a different coolant, flush the engine and radiator drat well. This is an issue on every GM made since the 90s, and not specific to the Ion. The engine bay is a bit cramped if you want to do anything that requires removing the belt, and if it needs a radiator, it comes out from the bottom. My 06 coupe has been in the shop twice in 2 years - once because the serpentine belt broke (partly my fault, I knew it was about to break just from age alone, just kept putting off replacing it), and once because a plug to a sensor near the gas tank was corroded and causing a check engine light (CarMax fixed that under warranty). Currently it needs a new thermostat, but that's to be expected given the age and miles. The thermostat is a pretty easy job if you have jack stands. I do pizza delivery in it, and I've racked up 40k miles in 2 years; it's at 107k now. The only things I've had to do aside from the above consists of replacing a turn signal bulb, oil changes, tires, and a set of front brakes. They're kind of underpowered, but as long as you get one that's been maintained, they're reliable.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 23:41 |
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Friar Zucchini posted:Yeah but which one exactly? The TBI one in my Suburban is about dead. Neglected I admit, but I got the thing at 187000 miles and it's at 206 now. Usually the carbed Chevy 350s. The crate motor variants sold through GM Goodwrench were the go-to motors for transplants until the LS line became popular. dissss posted:So if you actually maintain your vehicles then there is no appeal? If you actually maintain your vehicles, then chances are you own something a bit better than a GM.
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# ? Jan 1, 2015 23:56 |
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Shifty Pony posted:All so they could use the same head castings on both cylinder banks. That's not quite fair. They also wanted to parts bin their OHC engine's block design from a cam-in-block engine. That's why it has the third, short timing chain that runs up to the "jackshaft" in the valley, right where you'd expect to see a camshaft if it was OHV.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 00:03 |
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Geirskogul posted:The highest horsepower version in a Buick was the supercharged series II, which made 240hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, from 1996.5 to 2005, in the high-spec Park Avenue. That car weighs well over two tons. While 240 hp is no slouch, and while I also love 3800 stories, they must have either been lovely ricers (but I repeat myself), or you "trolled" them the same way I "win" my commute: the other parties simply don't know that they're participating. I had a top-spec '98 Park Avenue with the supercharged 3800-II. It was pretty much my favorite car, and I drove that thing until the engine violently disconnected itself from its mounts and ground against highway surface for half a mile before I was able to safely pull over. The block was too badly damaged to recover. Car was at 213,000 miles.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:11 |
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Space Gopher posted:That's not quite fair. They also wanted to parts bin their OHC engine's block design from a cam-in-block engine. That's why it has the third, short timing chain that runs up to the "jackshaft" in the valley, right where you'd expect to see a camshaft if it was OHV. I was wondering what that was about.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:13 |
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Exit Strategy posted:I had a top-spec '98 Park Avenue with the supercharged 3800-II. It was pretty much my favorite car, and I drove that thing until the engine violently disconnected itself from its mounts and ground against highway surface for half a mile before I was able to safely pull over. The block was too badly damaged to recover. Car was at 213,000 miles. Wait.....how did it fall OUT of the mounts? I get hitting the hood, but is there really enough space in there (presumably with bad transmission mounts also) to actually fall out of the actual metal mounts when the rubber mounts have failed? Or is that a front wheel drive vehicle in which case I have no real interest or knowledge about how the mounts work?
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:17 |
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Motronic posted:Wait.....how did it fall OUT of the mounts? I get hitting the hood, but is there really enough space in there (presumably with bad transmission mounts also) to actually fall out of the actual metal mounts when the rubber mounts have failed? No idea - I was like 18, and just listened to the mechanic at the time telling me how I'd managed to scrap my Buick. I was a sad kid.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:18 |
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Motronic posted:Wait.....how did it fall OUT of the mounts? I get hitting the hood, but is there really enough space in there (presumably with bad transmission mounts also) to actually fall out of the actual metal mounts when the rubber mounts have failed? I don't know how it's set up under there, but there might be enough room that it spun into a position to fall through. Or maybe a subframe fell off?
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:23 |
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Motronic posted:Wait.....how did it fall OUT of the mounts? I get hitting the hood, but is there really enough space in there (presumably with bad transmission mounts also) to actually fall out of the actual metal mounts when the rubber mounts have failed? FWD.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:26 |
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Motronic posted:Wait.....how did it fall OUT of the mounts? I get hitting the hood, but is there really enough space in there (presumably with bad transmission mounts also) to actually fall out of the actual metal mounts when the rubber mounts have failed? If the rubber completely disintegrated and was let go for a while, I could see the bolt hammering through and eventually severing the bracket portion, letting the end of the motor drop down. Most FWD cars have a trans mount by the driver fender, one motor mount on the passenger fender, and one on the rear, with optional extra ones either on the front going to the rad support/front crossmember, or an upper stabilizing mount. This is the passsenger side mount on a Park Avenue, i could see undampened vibrations making the bolt saw through piece 184.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 03:27 |
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Exit Strategy posted:I had a top-spec '98 Park Avenue with the supercharged 3800-II. It was pretty much my favorite car, and I drove that thing until the engine violently disconnected itself from its mounts and ground against highway surface for half a mile before I was able to safely pull over. The block was too badly damaged to recover. Car was at 213,000 miles. I had a friend whose daughter had this happen to her. It was only a couple blocks from their house so she just drove it home.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 04:06 |
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In tree related news my dad decided the tree needed some christmas lights.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 04:43 |
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OFFICER 13 INCH posted:In tree related news my dad decided the tree needed some christmas lights. This is the perfect pictographic representation of 2014.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 04:51 |
Godholio posted:I was wondering what that was about. Just staying true to the roots of the Cologne V6, which originally was a bit of a bodge designed to reuse as much as possible in cars designed for a v4 all the way down to having two exhaust ports per head for the longest drat time. Speaking of I don't think I've ever heard a 2.9 without valve ticking.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 06:30 |
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I know I am like five pages late for rental car chat, but let's have a review: Mazda 2: godawful Mitsubishi Galant: really bad Chevy Cruze: pretty good actually, not terribly fun though VW Jetta: drives nice, lacked features Nissan Sentra: tied for worst rental with Galant. The 2 gets a pass because it's a lower tier rental than everything else Mazda 3: fine, legroom sucks Ford Focus 4 door: pretty decent, great gas mileage Honda Civic Eco: pretty good The Cruze is actually my favorite because it had the most extra features, but if I was going to buy one of these it would be the Honda most likely. I also daily drive a Ford Escape awd, ecoboost turbo, and I actually like it a lot. Granted I do not pay for maintenance but the thing has serious power and pretty good features, wouldn't want to pay the asking price myself though.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 06:39 |
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What's your MPG on the AWD Ecoboost excape? I'm looking at one this weekend, seeing as I need a 4 door car now.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 07:30 |
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Motronic posted:Wait.....how did it fall OUT of the mounts? I get hitting the hood, but is there really enough space in there (presumably with bad transmission mounts also) to actually fall out of the actual metal mounts when the rubber mounts have failed? Not sure if I'm reading you right, but yes, the 3800 is a tiny engine, remember it's a OHV V8 with 2 cylinders cut off. Note how much of the pavement you can see when you open the hood, and that's a Grand Prix. A Lesabre/Park Avenue is a significantly larger car.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 14:21 |
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I'm so used to seeing them in RWD form in a commodore. The supercharged version here sucked, only 25HP more than the n/a and also was about 4mpg worse in mpg and needed premium. (n/a 204, s/c 229). As a comparison, in 2004 the ford 4L ran on regular, had an extra ~15HP in it's n/a form (244HP) over the 3.8 s/c, and had similar fuel economy. And ford offered a turbocharged version on top for funsies that could run pretty high boost. E:They stopped selling the 3.8L here in 2004, so we had it in various guises from 1988-2004 Fo3 fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jan 2, 2015 |
# ? Jan 2, 2015 14:32 |
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Fo3 posted:I'm so used to seeing them in RWD form in a commodore. The supercharged version here sucked, only 25HP more than the n/a and also was about 4mpg worse in mpg and needed premium. (n/a 204, s/c 229). Did the Ford have laughable cooling system design like the 3800 such as the infamous poo poo plastic elbow water hose that runs from the belt tensioner to the goddamn lower intake.and will always a hundred percent break. That said once you replace that with the recalled metal one and do your upper and lower intake.gaskets and thermostat,with its gaskets, and keep some oil in it,and do the plugs wires and coils. The 3800 is a loving bulletproof. Preoptopus fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jan 2, 2015 |
# ? Jan 2, 2015 15:01 |
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The ford had it's own problems, but that said, not much plastic used in either down here back then. Just radiators or trans coolers need work after a while. The ford falcon was the choice of taxi companies until recently, and many of them went for 400,000km+ without many problems. I've owned three and each had about 200,000km on them and I've never had to open a motor, just radiator or gearbox was the weak point. Seems strange to think that the ford I6 started life in 1963 as a 200ci, it got stroked to 250ci in 1969, dropped to 3.9L in 1988 (slightly smaller bore to minimize head gasket failure), increased back to 4L in 1992, and in 2008 ford au were selling a 360HP turbocharged 4L Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jan 2, 2015 |
# ? Jan 2, 2015 15:23 |
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My dads 3800 in his Buick LeSabre also too a dive onto the pavement. However in his case the mechanic concluded post mortem that both A arms had partially detached from the car as well as the subframe in a spectacular rust fuelled failure. Somehow none of this came apart at speed until he pulled into a parking spot and the final brake ended with a thump.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 17:56 |
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8ender posted:My dads 3800 in his Buick LeSabre also too a dive onto the pavement. However in his case the mechanic concluded post mortem that both A arms had partially detached from the car as well as the subframe in a spectacular rust fuelled failure. Somehow none of this came apart at speed until he pulled into a parking spot and the final brake ended with a thump. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Post Pictures of Horrible 3800 Failures - Fords Not Welcome
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 19:59 |
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some texas redneck posted:If you run across one with a 2.4, it'll actually be somewhat quick, as they're fairly light cars for their size. 2007 got VVTi on both the 2.2 and 2.4; 2007 was also the last year they were made. I had an 06 Cobalt SS 2.4. It was most assuredly not, "quick."
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 20:15 |
Preoptopus posted:Did the Ford have laughable cooling system design like the 3800 such as the infamous poo poo plastic elbow water hose that runs from the belt tensioner to the goddamn lower intake.and will always a hundred percent break. That said once you replace that with the recalled metal one and do your upper and lower intake.gaskets and thermostat,with its gaskets, and keep some oil in it,and do the plugs wires and coils. The 3800 is a loving bulletproof. Yeah the commie had none of that poo poo, I think it only got plastic cam covers right at the end of it's run and a cartridge style oil filter up top (in an alloy housing). I've never heard of intake gaskets failing on a Holden. Fo3 posted:The ford had it's own problems, but that said, not much plastic used in either down here back then. Just radiators or trans coolers need work after a while. I'm not ford/holden partisan by any means (they're both garbage) but the Falcons definitely seem to suffer a lot more in non-engine related areas than commodores, especially compared to VE/VF. I got the feeling that ford sort of 'gave up' on making their model successful a lot sooner than holden. The turbos are absolutely grand but still a tubby and not particularly well made car outside the engine bay. FWIW I've seen a couple of 3800's with 400,000+ on the clock but they were both manual (VN and VR). I imagine you'd be on your third auto trans at that mileage otherwise and most people wouldn't bother on a car that old.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 20:39 |
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I can't really say anything about the VF, but early VEs had the timing chain stretch problem, and my partners VZ has a pretty destroyed rear subframe/diff mount problem that needs seeing too, (and it drives like garbage compared to a falcon even if nothing was wrong with it and feels like crap from the inside with trim/quality compared to a ford). I'm not really a ford or holden guy either (main preference is mazda of course), but giving credit where credit is due. Of course the vz/ve/vf don't have the 3.8L. I agree Ford sort of gave up earlier, people (inc ford usa and media) have been ringing the death bells since 2000 on the falcon. They've done a lot with a little it has to be said, keeping the 4L alive, turbo, LPI and ZF gearbox and things like that. oh, I forgot sludging, the new commodores with the 3.6L, (vz I look after and the ve/vf like you mentioned), sludge magnets. i) due to the 15,000km factory service interval - which I guess was a sales point to better the ford, but they brought it upon themselves I guess ii) Cheap servicing and mech or home uses using cheap oil every 15,000km. A lot of people who maintain their own car service them anyway at 10,000km, the s/h one my partner bought was only serviced every 15,000km, but it was mainly hwy kms and decent fully synth oil was used on it, so far, so lucky I guess. Typical v6 found in a vz/ve/vf commodore, just picture one or both of the timing chains floppier: Fo3 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jan 2, 2015 |
# ? Jan 2, 2015 21:20 |
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I cant figure out a single waythis could happen unintentionally and yet keep coming back to it being such a sneaky and unreliable way of loving with someones car
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 21:55 |
Fo3 posted:I can't really say anything about the VF, but early VEs had the timing chain stretch problem, and my partners VZ has a pretty destroyed rear subframe/diff mount problem that needs seeing too, (and it drives like garbage compared to a falcon even if nothing was wrong with it and feels like crap from the inside with trim/quality compared to a ford). VZ's seem to stretch their chains too. It appears to be the dual-vvti engine that does it. The single vvti ones don't seem to have the problem. Also, 15,000km intervals are the norm for pretty much every brand (even Toyota), I'd say the 3.6 is just a real princess when it comes to using the right kind of oil. Most people over-estimate the viscosity they need pretty badly, and most oils you find at the hardware store don't meet SN which AFAIK the most recent 3.6's require. Also, the ZF trans is common to commodore, falcon and BMW. They all leak around that stupid plastic pan that you have to replace every time you remove.
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# ? Jan 2, 2015 23:06 |
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SuperDucky posted:I had an 06 Cobalt SS 2.4. It was most assuredly not, "quick." 173 hp vs the 145 from the 2.2. Maybe not "quick", but definitely a bit quicker. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 2, 2015 |
# ? Jan 2, 2015 23:15 |
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OFFICER 13 INCH posted:I cant figure out a single waythis could happen unintentionally and yet keep coming back to it being such a sneaky and unreliable way of loving with someones car That looks like a great way to get leverage on the filter if it was torqued on too hard and you've never heard of a filter wrench or socket.
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# ? Jan 3, 2015 00:50 |
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El Jebus posted:That looks like a great way to get leverage on the filter if it was torqued on too hard and you've never heard of a filter wrench or socket. Yeah, I saw people ramming a screwdriver through the filter, but you are supposed to throw it away afterwards... not reinstall it.
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# ? Jan 3, 2015 01:18 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 07:29 |
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genuinebald posted:Yeah, I saw people ramming a screwdriver through the filter, but you are supposed to throw it away afterwards... not reinstall it. This was done with malicious intent.
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# ? Jan 3, 2015 01:21 |