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Well I got through Floor 10. Only 5 stars but I'm gonna take it. Barbara is actually good at destroying Whoppletinger shields. And slightly okay at destroying Fatui fire shields. Everything else though, hooboy. I kinda just forced the issue and had Jean carry my rear end through A side. Like very, very little happening except her mulching enemies. Need to think about how to get anything at all done. Noelle/Xingqiu/Kaeya/Fischl has been an absolutely amazing team comp though. whoo top of page write me a poem about this my liege 
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Nov 16, 2020 08:55
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Joink posted:This is the closest tier list I agree with. Even so I hard disagree with a few of the options. Beidou should be top tier main DPS for example. The reason Beidou isn't generally rated highly as a main DPS is because her basic attacks just have worse numbers than the other GS users.
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Nov 16, 2020 08:57
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Tsyni posted:I think this is a really good point, but I just want to say that Klee could be the best DPS in game of you are a master of frame cancelling, but if you're not then she's still just behind Diluc a bit, and still pretty much a fire demon of death. Even if her theoretical dps is ahead of Diluc she has the big problem of doing 100% fire damage which means she's worthless against pyro slimes and just tickles whopperflowers. Diluc can always just normal attack to do decent physical damage against fire-immune stuff. Vargs posted:Everyone is good and worth investing in if you like them except Amber/Lisa/Kaeya/MC imo. MC is not too bad! The big problem is that talent levels aren't shared between different elemental forms. So if you grind lots of mats to upgrade one specific flavor of MC and then the electro area releases and you end up running around with electro MC for the next month, you'll "lose" your upgraded character. Lisa also has the highest-scaling elemental skill in the game, although it has a bit of a set-up time. Probably super nice for open world stuff and leylines when you can just dump a ton of up-front damage to instakill enemies or bring them super low, although huge burst damage becomes less valuable in abyss when everything is ultra tanky. I used Beidou for a while who does similar but slightly lower damage, conditional on getting a successful counter, and she felt really nice.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:01
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I find at specific enemies needing archers/claymores kinda mucks with the tier list.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:02
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It's just so weird. Like, I get Xingqui, and I get the rationale that Vaporize doesn't toss enemies like Overload does... but is a +50% Vaporize just shredding in a way Overload doesn't? There's a large fixation on Water/Fire at the top and I feel like I'm not getting some endgame hot tips here.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:06
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I don't think there are any enemies who really need claymores, other than the Geo Hypostasis which you can clear with a level 1 Noelle. (Then again I could be overlooking something since my main dps actually is a claymore user...) The big shielded hilichurls you can just dodge behind and hit in the butt, same as if you're fighting the wood-shield ones without a fire character. For those hilichurl mages who summon geo pillars, you can just headshot them with a bow to knock them off instead of trying to break the pillar.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:08
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Mailer posted:It's just so weird. Like, I get Xingqui, and I get the rationale that Vaporize doesn't toss enemies like Overload does... but is a +50% Vaporize just shredding in a way Overload doesn't? There's a large fixation on Water/Fire at the top and I feel like I'm not getting some endgame hot tips here. I think it's just because you can multiply things pretty high. My Klee does 5000 charged attacks, make it a crit and it's 10,000, make it a vapo crit and it's at least 15,000
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Nov 16, 2020 09:08
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Mailer posted:It's just so weird. Like, I get Xingqui, and I get the rationale that Vaporize doesn't toss enemies like Overload does... but is a +50% Vaporize just shredding in a way Overload doesn't? There's a large fixation on Water/Fire at the top and I feel like I'm not getting some endgame hot tips here. Overload is a flat damage amount (around 2000-3000 depending on your ele mastery), while Vaporize multiplies the hit that procs the vaporize (50%-100% more depending on your order of fire/water) so it scales much much better. EDIT: Not to say overload doesn't have it's place, it does do AOE damage and unless you're vaporizing bigger hits you'll probably see similar results DPS wise. vandiar fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Nov 16, 2020 |
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Nov 16, 2020 09:10
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it doesn't hurt that the big vaporize enablers are Mona and XQ, both having great numbers for damage support
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Nov 16, 2020 09:12
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There’s also large earth slimes, those jumping thurlichurls or whatever that are difficult to get away from and any shield your team does not have the correct element for. That and just overworld mining. Wish here was a faster way to swap characters.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:12
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My Fischl is level 70 with instructor set and gets overload procs for 2k-2.5kish damage while I'm smacking stuff with Diluc. My crits on E hit maybe up to 5k total so overload still does competitive damage to Vaporize for that, and it's way higher when you take into account the overload procs on all my converted-to-fire normal attacks after ulting. It does have the big downside of knocking enemies away though, so I can't smack 3 trash enemies at once or fight baddies inside the Benett ult circle.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:13
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UltraRed posted:There’s also large earth slimes, those jumping thurlichurls or whatever that are difficult to get away from and any shield your team does not have the correct element for. That and just overworld mining. Wish here was a faster way to swap characters. Yeah, it'd be nice if there were a quicker way to switch between Team A and Team B for overworld stuff.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:20
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Mailer posted:It's just so weird. Like, I get Xingqui, and I get the rationale that Vaporize doesn't toss enemies like Overload does... but is a +50% Vaporize just shredding in a way Overload doesn't? There's a large fixation on Water/Fire at the top and I feel like I'm not getting some endgame hot tips here. Xingqiu can keep Hydro up on enemies faster than Diluc, Bennett, or even Klee, who does Pyro damage with every attack, can apply Pyro, meaning that they're always the ones triggering the reaction, and potentially triggering it fast. Especially for, again, Klee, since she has so many ways of triggering Vaporize. At least, that's what I think it's supposed to be. As for Mona, it's due to her burst being a massive damage amplification, rather than Hydro specifically, I believe. She enables some pretty absurd hits. That's the Hydro side of things. Pyro is simpler: Klee and Diluc are the two highest DPS characters in the game, unquestionably (at least before taking Tartaglia into account), and Bennett's heal is extremely fast and comes with a big damage boost, making him a powerful support for basically anyone. I think putting Keqing in a lower tier is arguably a bit harsh on her, but at the same time, Electro's reactions aren't always as great as Pyro's, with the obvious exception of Overload (which is Pyro/Electro), and Superconduct if you're going for a physical build, but Razor's physical damage is better; Keqing can do both, which is cool, but you're probably focusing on one or the other at a time, and neither are going to surpass the two Pyro DPS characters unless you're fighting Pyro slimes. Now if only there were a character who could keep Cryo up as well as Xingqiu can keep up Hydro; you'd see Klee go completely off the scales, since Melt is even more favorable for Pyro to trigger than Vaporize.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:21
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Even if her theoretical dps is ahead of Diluc she has the big problem of doing 100% fire damage which means she's worthless against pyro slimes and just tickles whopperflowers. Diluc can always just normal attack to do decent physical damage against fire-immune stuff. Even worse she's short and slow and squishy compared to big daddy Diluc. I'd pay some amount of money for tall Klee
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Nov 16, 2020 09:31
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Muchos gracias to above posters! Yeah the pyro side I got, given Diluc is my carry, but the hydro stuff kind of threw me for a loop. I'm guessing 5k Overloads on 4+ enemies is good but you don't get to make a youtube video without 300k crits that a perfect Bennet+Vaporize(Water) or Bennet+Melt(Fire) will get you. If anything that makes me want to try out a Diluc/Bennet/XQ/Diona team. Granted I'd need both a sac sword and sac bow to make that group sing, but I roll so many 4* weapons that shouldn't be hard.  If I ever get a goddamn Bennet. 
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Nov 16, 2020 09:31
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Mailer posted:It's just so weird. Like, I get Xingqui, and I get the rationale that Vaporize doesn't toss enemies like Overload does... but is a +50% Vaporize just shredding in a way Overload doesn't? There's a large fixation on Water/Fire at the top and I feel like I'm not getting some endgame hot tips here. Vaporize and Melt scale way harder with crit/crit damage because of the fact that they're multiplier reactions, and crit/crit damage is basically how you build for the endgame. Xingqiu's burst attacks faster than Klee and Diluc' attacks do, so it's makes their damage do multiplicative damage. If there was a Xingqiu-style ult but was cryo instead of hydro, it would supplant Xingqiu in the tierlist because the multiplier suddenly becomes 2x instead of 1.5x. Electro doesn't have any multiplicative reactions, so overload and electrocharge fall off a little bit. XQ's ult also just does a shitload of damage by itself as well. As a general idea, at level 90 with 1000 EM and a reaction set (thundering fury/crimson witch/etc) is going to do deal ~8k damage before pyro res RES is accounted for. At the same level with a well built Klee or Diluc, you can do significantly more than that with 1.5x vaporizes. Additionally Klee and Diluc have pretty fast reaction cooldowns on their abilities (Diluc gets 3 free vaporizes because each of his E uses count as seperate abilities) than the current best electro support (fischl). And that's currently, as we get towards higher and higher levels of talent levels and abilities, vaporize and melt will just end up scaling a lot better.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:34
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I'm doing the main quest that got added in 1.1, and when I got told to go to the Golden House a message popped up saying "Teleport waypoint unlocked", but I don't see any new waypoints on the map (and I wasn't near one). What was that about?
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Nov 16, 2020 09:35
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Vargs posted:Everyone is good and worth investing in if you like them except Amber/Lisa/Kaeya/MC imo. I'm AR40 now and still using both Kaeya and Anemo Traveler. Kaeya's skill has a pretty fast cooldown, so it's good for setting up reactions; his burst has a lot of uptime at C2 and with the amount of energy recharge I have on him. I don't know if he performs well as a main DPS, but he pairs well with Barbara for freezing things and makes good use of the 500 Cool Steels you're going to get from wishes. (Having Glacial Waltz and Pyronado up at the same time is fun, also. )Venti is of course a straight improvement on Anemo Traveler, but I suspect that being a discount Archon will be the general theme of the various Traveler elements. The way Geo Traveler's meteors work makes them kind of unbearable to play, IMO, but I think Anemo Traveler is a decent pick if you want to spread elements and blow things around in single-player. Two out of the other three Anemo characters are 5-stars and the cooldown on Sucrose's skill is almost twice as long as Palm Vortex's max cooldown.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:37
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Qwertycoatl posted:I'm doing the main quest that got added in 1.1, and when I got told to go to the Golden House a message popped up saying "Teleport waypoint unlocked", but I don't see any new waypoints on the map (and I wasn't near one). What was that about? After you finish the story fight the place turns into a domain you can teleport to.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:38
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berenzen posted:Vaporize and Melt scale way harder with crit/crit damage because of the fact that they're multiplier reactions, and crit/crit damage is basically how you build for the endgame. Xingqiu's burst attacks faster than Klee and Diluc' attacks do, so it's makes their damage do multiplicative damage. If there was a Xingqiu-style ult but was cryo instead of hydro, it would supplant Xingqiu in the tierlist because the multiplier suddenly becomes 2x instead of 1.5x. Electro doesn't have any multiplicative reactions, so overload and electrocharge fall off a little bit. XQ's ult also just does a shitload of damage by itself as well. If your klee/diluc is hitting second then it's your klee/diluc's EM that gets counted for the vaporize/overload damage, not the support's. Instructor set's +120 for the whole team still works though. Also Fischl can definitely output electro fast enough to keep up with Diluc's 3 E charges, especially with the level 60 passive that gives her ANOTHER free electro hit every time you proc an electro-related reaction. Though I always do E->normal attack->E->attack->E->attack, so if you just mash out EEE maybe the timing is different. (That only-one-character's-stats-matter-for-reaction-damage thing is one of the things I hope they'll patch some day... I wish it took into account both characters' levels/stats when you create a reaction and not just the triggering character.)
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Nov 16, 2020 09:42
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Pyro pretty much has everything going for it at the moment, and the one time they added some kind of downside to playing them via stronger burny grass, babies flipped their poo poo. I hope they do a balance pass with the other elemental reactions in the near future, because it's pretty glaring when you compare, say, pyro to electro or anemo to geo. They're adding dendro at some point, so a revamp of the system shouldn't be too out of the question.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:46
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:If your klee/diluc is hitting second then it's your klee/diluc's EM that gets counted for the vaporize/overload damage, not the support's. Instructor set's +120 for the whole team still works though. Oz only procs reactions about once every few seconds, while Diluc's abilities and Klee's charged attacks seem to be able to proc it on every hit. You also should be going E-E-E on Diluc unless you have C6 Diluc, it ends up being more damage overall.
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Nov 16, 2020 09:47
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Oz isn't the one proccing the reactions though. Oz just has to apply electro and then Diluc procs the reaction. I definitely get overload numbers popping out for every E press so I dunno what to tell you. Each time you hit you get the overload explosion and then Fischl's level 60 passive hits it for another chunk of electro damage. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Nov 16, 2020 |
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Nov 16, 2020 09:48
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lol i got 6 stars on 10 with like 6 minutes to go and tried to do 11. double healing churlomancer and super freezing boys is pretty loving funny.
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Nov 16, 2020 10:01
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Oz isn't the one proccing the reactions though. Oz just has to apply electro and then Diluc procs the reaction. I definitely get overload numbers popping out for every E press so I dunno what to tell you. If Diluc is proccing the elemental reaction for overload, then Vaporize is going to be better, because then you don't need to stack EM except as a substat on Diluc to get good damage on your reactions. Instead you can go pyro damage/Crit(Or Crit damage) and attack and get better damage. Without stacking EM, you're maybe getting 4k damage on an overload with Crimson witch and some EM substats, but you only need to be doing ~7k damage on a triggering attack to outperform that with similar sets, which is not that hard once you have high enough stats and talents. Once we get a good cryo support on the level of Xingqiu, the value of overload drops even further because suddenly you only need to be doing 4k or less a hit to start outperforming overload.
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Nov 16, 2020 10:09
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gandlethorpe posted:Pyro pretty much has everything going for it at the moment, and the one time they added some kind of downside to playing them via stronger burny grass, babies flipped their poo poo. I mean, I agree that Pyro could be toned down a bit, but that really wasn't a good way to balance it. Having Klee be literally unable to attack without killing herself when standing on grass is not where you wanna be.
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Nov 16, 2020 10:29
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Speaking of, I never noticed this before but the Dendro Samachurls apply Dendro to things inside the AoE fields they create. Including you. And since this persists even after you leave the field, my Klee just annihilated herself extremely quickly. This is actually the second time this has happened, in retrospect, but the first time I didn't realize that's what the cause was. That's pretty brutal.
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Nov 16, 2020 10:35
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Roland Jones posted:Speaking of, I never noticed this before but the Dendro Samachurls apply Dendro to things inside the AoE fields they create. Including you. And since this persists even after you leave the field, my Klee just annihilated herself extremely quickly. It's the way she'd have wanted to go
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Nov 16, 2020 10:41
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Just started the new event and Fischl is already deploying the chuuni at full blast. Excellent.
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Nov 16, 2020 10:42
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Bloody Emissary posted:Not Japanese, so take this with a grain of salt, but the connotations of the prefix 原 also seem to center around the idea of the thing attached to it being the primitive, unrefined form of something else. One of the possible meanings my dictionary lists for it is "raw", for instance, but it's raw in the sense of something unprocessed, not something fresh and alive—raw cotton (原綿), raw materials (原料), crude oil (原油). I think this matches up with what we've been told about Vision bearers having the potential to enter Celestia—they're the unrefined, "rough" forms of gods, like uncut gemstones or unspun wool. Clarste posted:It's also in words like 原稿, meaning rough draft. If I were translating it I probably would've used something like "proto-god". Something that's not yet a god, but can serve as the basis of one. Yeah, basically every japanese (and I assume chinese) player can immediately reason out the meaning of "Genshin". Meanwhile, 99% of the players who didn't look up the word Allogenes thought "it's a fantasy word" and probably won't be able to remember it if the word is brought up again months from now (whenever we get more story) Tamba fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Nov 16, 2020 |
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Nov 16, 2020 10:44
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Klee being effectively unplayable because she is too much of a danger to herself and everyone around her seems realistic and in-character. Don't teach your 4-year old how to build bombs, folks. Don't teach them that murder robots are their friends either. Some really questionable parenting decisions in this game.
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Nov 16, 2020 10:51
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Man, at least Klee seems pretty consistently a kid. I have no idea how old Diona is even supposed to be. She looks about 8, but her father Draff says she is "at a rebellious age", which is why she went off to be a bartender instead of a hunter. That's a lot of mixed messages about age right there.
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Nov 16, 2020 11:01
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They could have dialed back the cutesy and upped the naive-child-with-explosive-powers thing with Klee in the story quest and it would have been better. I hope if there's a Diona character quest it's revealed she's just short and loving hates Diluc. I will be completing the quest as Diluc.
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Nov 16, 2020 11:31
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The fact that Diluc is the only person that Klee doesn't say is awesome is hilarious in it's own way. Nobody seems to like that self-important lug much.
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Nov 16, 2020 11:42
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I've heard hilichurls make a really silly 'hey' noise like twice since patch now. Is this the Weird Hilichurl or whatever that got added? Haven't seen anything unusual or gotten any weird drops if that is it.
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Nov 16, 2020 12:01
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Ashenai posted:Just started the new event and Fischl is already deploying the chuuni at full blast. Excellent. What does that term mean
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Nov 16, 2020 12:03
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frajaq posted:What does that term mean Japanese term for someone who keeps semi-pretending/believing to be a princess from another world or whatever. "Middle-school syndrome", named after the age at which it's a fairly normal thing to do Qwertycoatl fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Nov 16, 2020 |
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Nov 16, 2020 12:07
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frajaq posted:What does that term mean Oh man those cutscenes were excellent. Having two characters with talking floating companions interact is extremely funny and they lean into it Another detail I really appreciate is that Oz mostly pronounces the German correctly unlike the Prinzessin herself who learned it from a book.
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Nov 16, 2020 12:14
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frajaq posted:What does that term mean "14 year old syndrome" where you think you're someone with special powers and a dark past and dont make me mad I'll send you to the next dimension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%ABniby%C5%8D https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Chuunibyou
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Nov 16, 2020 12:16
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Fischl is basically the Genshin universe equivalent of a DeviantArt user
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Nov 16, 2020 12:21
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