- FirstnameLastname
- Jul 10, 2022
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got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch
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the easiest way to find logs is to open pidgin and go there
or go to code:%USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming\.purple\logs\jabber\
like just paste that into explorer bar
unedited (cept cleaning jabber textmess) start to finish. emphasis in the messages was mine as written at the time, bolding of key responses by mittani are added by me
visavis_qed is me
quote:
(4:01:30 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: yo mittey alex dude do you know theres like a sexual harrassment problem happening in gsf because its sounding like there is and people aren't doing anything about it and people are getting upset about it, understanably
(4:05:36 PM) The Mittani: there's a couple folks making accusations which are being investigated and unfortunately some of the loudest recent accusers have eaten mental health bans which we will not be discussing
(4:06:35 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com: if there's a couple folks making accusations, there's more who are silent who are goin through poo poo too
(4:07:16 PM) The Mittani: i'm not gonna discuss specifics of ongoing investigations into either sexual harassment accusations or mental health issues
(4:07:53 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: like i dont really know specifics about anything im just hearing 'xxxxx person is continually harassing me and rejoined another gsf corp after getting booted/got an alt' kind of stuff frequently enough to where it seems like theres at least one person who is actually making poo poo really uncomfortable for chicks on the reg. and being protected
(4:08:05 PM) The Mittani: heh
(4:08:08 PM) The Mittani: yeah
(4:08:18 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: i'm not talking about anything that's happened, i'm talkin about the general environment if it's allowing for it yknow
(4:08:24 PM) The Mittani: nah
(4:08:39 PM) The Mittani: because it's a couple of individuals making repeated accusations of wrongdoing, which i'm not going to be discussing
(4:53:43 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: i'm not trying to. i'm not upset with you at all by the way lemme clarify that incase i came off mad, i don't know who actually made what call about stuff, and i'm not trippin over any individual, but the health of the community
like someone, somewhere IS actually doing some poo poo if multiple people are saying 'yo xxxxxx won't stop harassing me/sexually harassing me/stalking me, gets booted from one corp, joins another or on an alt etc' enough to where people are getting upset enough to move a forum over it, that's a weird response and if i were a chick i'd take it as a 'ah so im not safe here' signal tough
it doesn't matter whether the accusations are true or not, or whether the person who made them is lying or overly sensitive, the response gives that feeling regardless. it feels callous and bad and is a community-killer for real, that puts a very bad taste in peoples mouths, and theres a shitton of people looking for a reason to quit rn. its a bad move. im purely talking about the helldump-forum getting moved, 'don't announce or expose the bad behavior of other community members', here, because i don't know any other response at all, and that feels like a coverup. the factuality of it doesn't actually matter, the vibe alone is enough to make people get a bad taste in their mouth and just bag it. you've probably been dealing with this for hours/days - i haven't, so that's why i've got all this energy to go on about it it's not to drive you crazy, it's just something that spooks me. i've just seen people talking about it enough to where it started to concern me and then i'm just seeing the forum being moved and a bunch of posts disappear and nothing else. That's where i'm getting the bad feeling from
i get if you're pissed and tired rn and this isn't necessarily written as an emergency "hurry quick quick" thing, im not trying to get on your rear end i promise, just trying to describe how i'm seeing it, but something's gotta be done fairly soon or people will leave in droves. this community cannot afford to be callous to its members when the game is as lovely as it is right now lmao
folks don't want to be the place that is cool with people creeping on women as long as they're in a position of power and will erase you if you say anything about it, and this will make em feel like its that place whether it actually is or not, that's the part where it needs some sort of response, so that it's not a complete unknown
it doesn't have to name names or go into detail but something to say 'yeah we're not just covering up creepy poo poo people do and ignoring it' bc moving forum & deleting everything & saying "no you can't address this at all", that just feels like a 'you shut the gently caress up' move from my perspective
i haven't talked to anyone else about this cuz i'm not trying to get people more upset, like, i haven't done any rabblerousing - but this is gonna piss a lot of people off guaranteed if it's just moved and there's no followup. Helldump is the only forum that actually has people use it every day of the year, it shouldn't be at the bottom of the forum listing. moving it over something like that is just sending a terrible message no matter how true it might be
i'm not saying who bc they're not logged in right now and i don't wanna get them into poo poo without their knowledge, but by the fact they're not banned, , i don't think it's the same person as the ones you're referring to - which tells me this is still an ongoing problem and nothing has been done about it as far as i am aware
mainly tryna let you know how im seeing people digest at the lowest-common-denominator level. i just dont wanna see stuff go to poo poo and fall apart bro
(4:55:06 PM) The Mittani: there are bad people out there who do bad things, but there are also amber heards in the world
(4:55:27 PM) The Mittani: i assume you're talking about mcwolf and nikki
(4:55:36 PM) The Mittani: it's being handled
(4:57:04 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: <3
(4:57:18 PM) The Mittani: be careful about trying to rescue wounded birds my friend
(5:01:30 PM) The Mittani: anyway it's a hot mess and because of the nature of the accusations i cannot discuss them
(5:15:24 PM) The Mittani: we are very likely going to have to ban both of these folks, it's not good
(5:15:32 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: i just didnt want incident fatigue to freeze yr moral pitot tubes and tip stuff under the horizon w/o anyone realizing, yknow? like im just being careful, i got faith in you to do stuff right, i just didn't know who to consult about this sort of thing at all, i don't think there's an official pathway
i think some kind of director of ethics kind of role and/or place where people could voice those concerns safely and openly but at the same time without them being, or being seen as, the thing i'm more worried about here, ignored/unheard/swept under the rug (maybe a forum that allows posting of anonymous-but-authenticated messages + banning for abusing it?) would prolly be a good long-term solution to deter actual creeps, make this whole sort of thing not your personal problem to solve whenever it comes up,
and as a bonus it'd just be a good look in comparison to snigg and papi and whoever
(5:15:54 PM) The Mittani: when you have someone running around making a bunch of accusations and insisting those accusations are not being looked into by the powers that be
(5:16:03 PM) The Mittani: it's kind of a loving problem
(5:16:47 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: i think you misread that i wasnt saying anything about whats happening rn
(5:16:53 PM) The Mittani: because how does one establish trust and credibility when, say, the person who has rallied a bunch of folks to them to crusade for them, happens to also be a bad actor
(5:16:55 PM) The Mittani: yeah i know
(5:18:02 PM) The Mittani: this has been going on for months and this bitch can't find a block button and is sending us walls of goddamned text, and when the entire directorate goes over the complaint - loving PAGES of words - and we don't have anything other then he said she said breakup bullshit
(5:18:07 PM) The Mittani: we have to paper the hell out of these things dude
(5:18:17 PM) The Mittani: mcwolf is bad news, niki raine is also bad news
(5:18:34 PM) The Mittani: but gosh why isn't anyone doing anything for mcwolf?????
(5:18:49 PM) The Mittani: well, we've been dealing with this poo poo for a while now and we're gonna have to stop this whole shitshow
(5:19:34 PM) The Mittani: anyway that may have to be the solomonic resolution
(5:19:46 PM) The Mittani: both have hosed up real bad
(5:20:12 PM) The Mittani: meanwhile the longer it drags on, the worse it gets
(5:20:57 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: thats why i think having a semi-anonymous AAD-esque place where issues can be discussed you can point to it and go 'see, here's where we discussed this' if someones doing that and then tell them to shut up after that if they have nothing new to add would help
(5:21:00 PM) The Mittani: anyway it's been a fun whole loving day of sorting out sexual harassment complaints of dubious provenance and bullshit not-goonfleet discord drama from a chick who joined gsf in march 2021 and has 47 posts
(5:21:07 PM) The Mittani: sometimes there's smoke because there's a fire
(5:21:12 PM) The Mittani: sometimes it's a fucker with a smoke machine
(5:21:26 PM) The Mittani: the dreaded hypersensitive plaintiff
(5:21:44 PM) The Mittani: i do think we need to expand the methods of people filing formal complaints
(5:22:02 PM) The Mittani: it's too big for nom now
(5:22:19 PM) The Mittani: i have no time for hearsay and third party accusations and we're not setting up a resolution system to enable those
(5:22:40 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: like something where you can anonymously contact the directorate privately or publicly, and people can only have their identity revealed if the message breaks the 'dont gently caress around with this for jokes' rules or a majority of directors vote to reveal it, so people can assume actual anonymity as long as they're acting in good faith
(5:22:41 PM) The Mittani: but people need a better way to get complaints looked at in a timely fashion instead of hoping nom responds to their pm/dm; it's an org scale thing
(5:28:34 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: yeah thats why im thinking either a dedicated job of just that kind of stuff for someone to expand it (how the gently caress does he get so much done jfc) [edit for thread: Apparently, he doesn't!]or some kinda semi-anoymous version of functionally those little boxes yo ucan write a note and drop the note the slot, the post is optionally(poster decided) is visible to everyone and so is the response then it simply can't get lost, but also allows for anonymity and privacy is avaiilable if it's involving sensitive information or embarassing stuff etc
(5:32:27 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: like not a new group of people who handle the issues, it wouldn't be a discsusion forum for everyone to post in, only a threadposter & director would be able to post in a given thread
so it'd be a different and more transparent system for them to be delivered through that allows for less drama all around, because it's public enough to say 'we discussed it here' if someone's saying you're ignoring their claims/accusations
that's the least manpower-intensive way of properly handling these kind of issues with this many people that i can think of - basically a slightly more HIPAA AAD
(5:58:07 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: also im sorry its been that much of a goddamn mess i had no clue at all and i can totally see where the frustration comes from. you gotta give people like $200 an hour for them to be able to put up with that poo poo on the regular, Goonfleet the EVE Online Corp aint a relationship counselor, lmao
like, shed been talking like it was just some malicious person and never mentioned being in a relationship or interacting intentionally so i thought it was just some rando weirdo harassing/stalking a girl bc she's streaming and then another nutjob tryna weaponize suicide at her and poo poo and then it getting washed away and i see how its hard to find a good solution to that one in general
but man you are losin all of delta right now like all of it over how this is being handled, people are dropping roles right. now.
i don't think that's a good thing & i think people are getting really angry this needs a clear response or its gonna go bad
(5:59:39 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: like even tho its already bad, something that gets everyone on the same page would help a lot bc people are very mad rn. like anything, the silence is leaving a lot of room for anger
(6:19:56 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: man yall are loving up bad
(6:20:10 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: like idk who but whoever is doing it, they're loving up and it's not gonna be fixable
(6:41:34 PM) visavis_qed@goonfleet.com/: seriously, loving terrible work here.
My apologies to mcwolf (who i didn't know at the time, and is actually v. cool) for the brief moment where i trusted mittani to not be lying his rear end off about the situation and i myself look like a prick @5:58 in the private convo, which was right before i found out both parties had been vaporized and saw everything being deleted and realized he was lying (check the timestamp of the elys log beginning, 7 minutes) - i was trying to justify it to myself because i wanted to believe he wouldn't be a fuckin slimeball about this, i wanted to believe that due diligence had been performed
I was in the wrong there 100% and apologize. I had assumed, with his description of how closely he claimed to know the situation, that he must have known more than i did and was being honest about the situation and MUST have had SOME valid reason to take that course of action (at the time i'd contacted mittani about this, i knew zero specifics besides seeing the one guy's freakout thread and a voicing of frustrations about the nikki situation not being handled, i saw other people upset about it, but didn't know innominate had been just SITTING on everything for 6 months )
this, for some of the folks here who don't understand, is an example of what you do when you realize you have made a mistake and have genuine remose - own up. Don't lie. Don't delete it and act like it never happened~ okay?~
here's the elysium log immediately afterwards:
quote:
(5:57:24 PM) the_mittani:
i will ping it with the stratop!
(5:59:48 PM) gashh_roswen: quick question, why was someone who was harrassed kicked out of the alliance?
(6:00:12 PM) alterari_phoenix: lmao awesome
(6:00:28 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: lmao that's great
(6:00:41 PM) penguinbacon: My Little Yiffing Ponies (dot) alt alliance?
(6:01:01 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: ooh, rip helldump
(6:01:28 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: gashh_roswen: this would be something to ask innom, maybe
(6:02:21 PM) aiden_erhmentraut: scroll down
(6:02:46 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: oh
(6:05:12 PM) visavis_qed: yo
(6:05:14 PM) visavis_qed: yo
(6:05:23 PM) visavis_qed: are you guys trying to kill this fuckin community
(6:05:36 PM) visavis_qed: like for real wtf
(6:05:56 PM) visavis_qed: who is making these headass decisions
(6:06:10 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: mittens is
(6:06:16 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: you may bring your crying to him
(6:06:21 PM) visavis_qed: well hes gotta delegate this poo poo to someone who can handle it more delicately
(6:06:25 PM) aiden_erhmentraut: moving a subforum is killing a community?
(6:06:41 PM) visavis_qed: nah but sexual abuse scandals do and that's what this is now because it's not being loving addressed
(6:06:51 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: visavis_qed: excuse me the gently caress
(6:07:17 PM) visavis_qed: sexual harassment not abuse*
(6:07:24 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: again: the gently caress
(6:07:31 PM) visavis_qed: i don't really know details
(6:07:33 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: also take that poo poo to innom
(6:07:36 PM) visavis_qed: uhhh
(6:07:42 PM) alterari_phoenix: If you dont know details then why are you opening your mouth?
(6:07:44 PM) koahi: yeah noone of us know anything about it here
(6:07:44 PM) visavis_qed: innom is the one who kicked the person who took the details to innom and was ignored for 6 months
(6:07:54 PM) visavis_qed: i know the details about how it's a fuckin mess now
(6:07:59 PM) visavis_qed: i wasn't involved until literally just now
(6:08:10 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: you sure are upset about something nobody here has any goddamn clue about
(6:08:15 PM) theadj: you should stay out of it
(6:08:25 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: or power to affect tbh
(6:08:25 PM) visavis_qed: that's the thing that's gonnna kill this community man
(6:08:32 PM) visavis_qed: everyoens gonna stay out of it lol
(6:08:36 PM) alterari_phoenix: wait im trying to figure out who involved you visavis_qed because i dont think anyone asked for your opinion
(6:08:51 PM) visavis_qed:
i don't think i need permission to tell you that you're loving up when you are loving up
(6:08:57 PM) madmaan: :coffee:
(6:08:59 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: :popcorn:
(6:08:59 PM) visavis_qed:
when like 100 people leave the corp en masse, you made a bad move!
(6:09:04 PM) nitchiu: Well.. this will end well
(6:09:07 PM) azo_pathwalker: alterari_phoenix: he's kramering a bit but I don't think he's out of line, but I think we should be talking to people in DMs first though
(6:09:18 PM) visavis_qed: i've been trying to talk to people in DMs and this is loving melting down
(6:09:25 PM) visavis_qed: and so i'm calling the whole issue out because this is loving dumb
(6:09:32 PM) visavis_qed: it's childish and dumb and it can be handled better than this
(6:09:36 PM) mattais_valdyr: i had to google what the hell krammering meant
(6:09:38 PM) visavis_qed: this organization is like fifteen years old
(6:09:50 PM) aiden_erhmentraut: I just logged in so this is all new to me. Seeing a subforum move is Not A Big Deal dot Tee Em
(6:10:05 PM) visavis_qed: like im fuckin not even talking about the issue i'm talking about how it is being handled: poorly
(6:10:27 PM) visavis_qed: and i'm drawing attention to it because that's exactly what it needs to not continue being handled that way
(6:10:45 PM) visavis_qed:
like this is dumb stop acting like 2007 goonfleet y'all
(6:10:51 PM) visavis_qed:
nobody liked 2007 goonfleet
(6:11:00 PM) aiden_erhmentraut: what are you evening raving about
(6:11:04 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: my dude have you considered that maybe the adults are handling it and that your kramering in here to shout about it is creating more of a problem than it solves?
(6:11:14 PM) theadj: ^
(6:11:29 PM) nyrenth: most people here dont even know what you're talking about so chill
(6:11:29 PM) nitchiu: I'm assuming alchohol is involved
(6:11:54 PM) visavis_qed: they're clearly not handling it
(6:11:57 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: maybe, like, the directorate is aware that things were not handled well and are working to unfuck poo poo
(6:11:57 PM) visavis_qed: because if they were
(6:12:02 PM) visavis_qed: i wouldn't have to be like 'what the gently caress'
(6:12:09 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: you could
(6:12:10 PM) visavis_qed: because i'm looking at other channels of people being EXTREMELY UPSET
(6:12:11 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: perhaps
(6:12:14 PM) azo_pathwalker: Siobhan MacLeary: trust in me
(6:12:17 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: chill the gently caress out
(6:12:18 PM) visavis_qed: and that makes me upset because i really like this community
(6:12:21 PM) theadj: please drop it
(6:12:25 PM) shylari_avada: it's like 1 channel tbh
(6:12:25 PM) visavis_qed: and i don't want it to loving poison itself over bullshit
(6:12:44 PM) shylari_avada: either way you'll be able to manipulate PLEX prices in Perimeter
(6:12:48 PM) khali_zoora: visavis your rant reminds me alot of a post on facebook, very little substance, we have no clue who or what your ranting about and tbh its probably better if we dont know
(6:12:48 PM) visavis_qed: it's more than one like you can't handle these kind of things with this kind of tact you simply can't
(6:12:59 PM) visavis_qed: i loving started goonfleet lmao
(6:13:08 PM) azo_pathwalker: that is true
(6:13:11 PM) visavis_qed: like check the corp bio that's a quote of me
(6:13:18 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: k
(6:13:53 PM) john_hartley: yall mother fuckers need jesus
(6:13:54 PM) visavis_qed: so if i call an alarm of concern for this community that i helped create, it's probably for a good reason, even if you don't want to deal with it
(6:14:17 PM) mattais_valdyr: John I thought all you needed was cows
(6:14:20 PM) azo_pathwalker: take a breath fnln, but also this isn't something that can just go away
(6:14:45 PM) visavis_qed: yeah i'm not trying to start a riot here i'm just like frustrated at how this is being handled because it shouldn't be making ths many people upset and decide to leave at once
(6:14:57 PM) shylari_avada: have people left?
(6:15:04 PM) visavis_qed: yes.
(6:15:12 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: all i am saying is screaming about a thing in a channel where most people have no context of knowledge of what the gently caress is going on is a bad plan
(6:15:31 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: "someone did a harass and it was handled poorly" ok but what does this accomplish my dude?
(6:15:37 PM) visavis_qed: well if there was a better place to do it i would
(6:15:40 PM) mattais_valdyr: I am one of the 700+ in this channel that have no idea what you are talking about
(6:15:46 PM) mattais_valdyr: :-X
(6:15:49 PM) azo_pathwalker: agreed viv
(6:15:54 PM) shylari_avada: streamer gets stalked online.
streamer calls attention to stalking.
it was read, but nothing happened.
call out thread.
streamer and stalker both get banned.
(6:15:56 PM) visavis_qed: like this needs to be handled professionally when you have this many people in an organization
(6:16:04 PM) mattais_valdyr: yikes
(6:16:07 PM) visavis_qed: yeah
(6:16:11 PM) shylari_avada: you're caught up.
(6:16:14 PM) visavis_qed:
that's gonna make a lot of people leave if it's not addressed
(6:16:14 PM) azo_pathwalker: ty shylari_avada
(6:16:18 PM) cafu:
GUYS CHILL, this has already all been resolved: https://goonfleet.com/index.php/topic/313240-hellojpg/
(6:16:26 PM) visavis_qed: thank you sweet goatman
(6:16:31 PM) azo_pathwalker: hello old friend
(6:16:39 PM) john_hartley: isnt that how we deal with most drama
(6:16:40 PM) mattais_valdyr: its like an adult rickrole
(6:16:43 PM) john_hartley: just kick both of them
(6:16:44 PM) visavis_qed: like i'm not calling out any person here but this situation needs to be handled right or its gonna gently caress stuff up bad
(6:16:47 PM) shylari_avada: yes
(6:16:47 PM) john_hartley: then its not a problem
(6:16:48 PM) john_hartley: lol
(6:16:54 PM) visavis_qed: you don't kick people for being harassed and reporting harassment
(6:16:55 PM) nitchiu: That's pretty much standard MO
(6:17:00 PM) john_hartley: sure you dod
(6:17:02 PM) john_hartley: do*
(6:17:03 PM) visavis_qed: that's how you look like a slimy shitshow to avoid by 500 miles
(6:17:03 PM) shylari_avada: drama happens, airlocks get loaded, button is pushed.
(6:17:07 PM) john_hartley: look it just happend
(6:17:07 PM) azo_pathwalker: john_hartley: that's for krab poo poo, kicking a victim of sexual harassment is not a W
(6:17:09 PM) john_hartley: :laffo:
(6:17:12 PM) visavis_qed: and have a sub 100 online members at all time vibe
(6:17:13 PM) donoae: cafu with the save, thank jesus
(6:17:17 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: if it was handled poorly then i don't doubt the directorate is already aware of that and working on unfucking it
(6:17:19 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: just
(6:17:22 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: take a breath
(6:17:23 PM) oshi7: yeah can we not emulate canadian military harassment response
(6:17:30 PM) john_hartley: how do you get sexual harrased on the internet
(6:17:38 PM) mattais_valdyr: we have gone through enough top brass in Canada to plate a building
(6:17:42 PM) madmaan: that is loving cringe john
(6:17:47 PM) madmaan: just ... no
(6:17:48 PM) theadj: spewing bullshit when you're a 3rd party to something isn't really helpful since you don't have all (or any) of the facts
(6:17:51 PM) john_hartley: you know about the block function ?
(6:17:53 PM) theadj: so we're going to change the subject
(6:17:55 PM) visavis_qed: it seemed like it was being handled properly and then it was just like loving JDAMed
(6:17:56 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: john_hartley: be a woman on the internet, that's how
(6:18:03 PM) hivsd: visavis_qed: hi
(6:18:04 PM) danielc_onzo: what a poo poo take
(6:18:10 PM) nitchiu: So did anyone watch the NHL draft?
(6:18:13 PM) hivsd: i figured out how to reset my esa password
(6:18:16 PM) john_hartley: sure 1 time then you mute/block them
(6:18:17 PM) john_hartley: vOv
(6:18:17 PM) visavis_qed: here's something that's not bullshit: a lot of very valuable people will leave and never return for this kind of thing
(6:18:18 PM) theadj: hey, I did not stutter
(6:18:20 PM) visavis_qed: i'm not talking about myself
(6:18:20 PM) theadj: S T O P
(6:18:23 PM) azo_pathwalker: holy poo poo
(6:18:24 PM) theadj: right loving now
(6:18:26 PM) mattais_valdyr: i watched the cocky kid get picked 4th and be sad
(6:18:30 PM) mattais_valdyr: in the draft lol
(6:18:40 PM) nitchiu: That was pure gold
(6:18:43 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: i'm gay and very tired, i walked over a mile today while hitting other nerds with foam sword
(6:18:52 PM) mattais_valdyr: i watched montreal fans be total dicks to their pick
(6:18:52 PM) koahi: how many kills
(6:18:56 PM) mattais_valdyr: and him handle it really classy
(6:18:59 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: um...i didn't count
(6:19:04 PM) azo_pathwalker: Siobhan MacLeary: I am also tired
(6:19:04 PM) nitchiu: montreal fans are the worst
(6:19:04 PM) Siobhan MacLeary: quite a few
(6:19:05 PM) koahi: that many!
(6:19:12 PM) aiden_erhmentraut: serial killer alert
(6:19:13 PM) visavis_qed: where can this be handled then because like whoever is doing it is not doing it right and i can't find a place that this can be addressed - i'm not talking about the poo poo other people were complaining about, i'm talking about how this whole thing has been handled, where can I talk to someone about that?
(6:19:13 PM) shylari_avada: hi koahi
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