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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Squidster posted:

I think the chewy titan-shifter seed is incompatible with other seeds. Otherwise it would be safest for Berthold and Reiner to just eat anyone they suspected of being the Coordinate and hope for the best.

Although, hilariously, if one titan-shifter can katamari another's powers, then the fastest path to victory for humanity is for Eren to eat Annie. Bam, armoured rage titan commander.


It wouldn't be for them because it would mean they are now targets for being eaten themselves.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



The art in this is never usually great but this page http://i.imgur.com/DD4k0oA.png (obvious spoilers for latest chapter) had me laughing for like five minutes.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Historia isn't going to eat Eren. She's going to be somhow subdued for a while and eventually end up eating Ymir because that is way way more tragic.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Happy Noodle Boy posted:

The basement will reveal that the entire planet is a Titan. Also the moon. Everything is Titans.

I look forward to Attack On Dead Space 3.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



GimmickMan posted:

We had a major, end of arc battle in which nobody died and things went mostly as planned. It is weird and makes me suspicious we'll see some kind of twist in the next chapter.

Levi's gonna get shot. Just watch.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



It isn't like a Titan serum is very useful on its own since you just become an uncontrollable monster.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



iamsosmrt posted:

I had a bit of a hard time following the action at the end and thought it could've used a few more panels. Seems like a rather risky gamble on Armin's part being that there was no way to know that Eren could do everything he did at the end. But I suppose there weren't that many options.

Didn't they set up Jean as being getting better at that? Or did I miss him dying?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



I'm not sure why people are assuming Armin is alive enough for the serum to work considering he looks really really dead.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Yeah, Armin surviving is the first time this series has really lost me when it comes to death. That poo poo is unbelievable and also feels thematically weak. Armin died about as firmly and fully as a character can die both in story and in theme and then nope lol alive.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



AtheistMantis posted:

Now that I think of it, was Bert's special ability his size? What if it was actually the ability to produce immense heat, and his size was just a thing unique to him. Then tiny Armin titan has the ability to turn into a fireball. And the survey corps just learned about the concept of baseball. What a twist!

Aren't all the Titans inside the wall Colossal Titans?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



In It For The Tank posted:

Here is my immediate attempt to reconcile everything that we have seen in this series together with this revelation. Lots of speculation below:

The people within the walls are specifically kept there to draw the titans away from the rest of civilization, much like how Eren's home district and those like it focused titan attention at specific parts of the walls but on a much greater scale.

The shifter village serve as guards to ensure the people in the walls never get out and have been conditioned to think that the people of the walls deserve this fate (perhaps the people in the walls are the descendants of a nation of people who used the titans in warfare and this is an ironic punishment). Reiner, Bertolt, and Annie's original attack on the wall was part of a periodic culling (say, every 100 years) that keeps the populations within the walls small enough to sustain itself and docile with fear.

The coordinate ensures that, when the titans breach, the people within the walls will ultimately survive when the Reiss send the titans away and wipe the population's memory so that the process can repeat. The reason that the old coordinate holders never destroyed the titans is because they know through genetic memory that they would be completely destroyed by the presumably superior outside civilization and always decide that a life in a cage is better than utter annihilation. I am assuming that the civilization outside the walls cannot use the coordinate but know how it works, so they let the Reiss family rule in exchange for their cooperation.

When Grisha interfered with the Reiss' memory wipe and stole the coordinate, he forced the titan shifters, presumably on Zeke's orders, to investigate, hence their infiltration of the military. Their original plan was to join the military police, which would have given them access to the inner walls and would be the logical place for the new coordinate holder to be. The shifters attacked the walls again on the eve of the decision about which branch to join in order to draw out the new holder of the coordinate, expecting them to send the titans away and narrow down their search. Instead, their buddy Eren transforms into a titan and they decide to capture him instead.

When the wall gets plugged by Eren and then Annie gets captured, Monkey Trouble decides to intervene directly and starts spawning titans in the walls, again intending to force the coordinate holder to act. Reiner and Bertolt are exposed in the meantime and decide to snatch Eren and Ymir. I can't remember if Reiner and Bertolt knew that Christa was a Reiss and that is why they wanted her or if it was just Ymir's insistence, but my expectation would be that if they had successfully captured Eren and Christa and found out who she was, they would have forced him to her and then forced her to send the titans away.


It's incredibly hard for me to reconcile 'we have literal shifter Titans' and "we need to keep the Titans contained using a ridiculously circuitous plan." Erin alone can wreck Titan's poo poo like nothing. I'm pretty sure if you wanted to wipe out Titans it would take two or three Colossal Titans a couple days tops.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Schwarzwald posted:

As I'm not familiar with either Muvluv Alternative or Muvluv Classic, can someone fill me in on what the reference or whatever is?

Muvluv is a generic harem thing. It has a sequel/spinoff/whatever which is a super-grimdark mecha show where humanity is losing a war against unstoppable super-beasts.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Monocled Falcon posted:

I don't know what to think now. I was only into this series because it made zombies scary again. The wider world is intriguing, though it doesn't seem well foreshadowed.

It's been foreshadowed throughout the series with things like the cans of food with unknown languages that Ymir can read.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Slartibartfast is totally loving with Eren.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Piriwi posted:

What I didn't understand about the plan to use shifters is that to the supposed king it would've been obvious who is responsible for the attack the walls. So the argument that if Marley were to attack with their regular army the king would bring down the walls and release the giant titans inside, that doesn't really hold up.

Marley people can't become Titans so it's entirely banking on the idea the king would assume it's a rebellion or something from the inside. (At least from what we know so far.)

It's worth remembering that despite whatever the 'the power is broke into pieces' thing is, we know for a fact there are multiple of the special Titans, including the Colossal ones inside the walls, so the appearance of another Colossal Titan doesn't inherently mean it's a Marley attack.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



change my name posted:

So I'm guessing this stuff definitively rules all of the spinoffs not canon? I don't remember if they were or not anyways.

Alternately everything in the book is a lie and we'll discover in 5 chapters that Eren got totally tricked and now has to go on a quest to find the SECOND TRUE BASEMENT.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



snucks posted:

I loved this. Less a fan of the fact that master tactician The Owl decided to enact his Grisha-saving plan once all other revolutionary recruits were dead or titanized. Was there a point to this besides dramatic tension? Would letting these revolutionaries live within the wall be too dangerous to the mission?

I get the impression that he had been intending to let Grisha die but changed his mind once it came down to it and pulled his hidden Titan trump card earlier than expected.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Honestly based off the dialogue "Advancing Titan" really makes the most sense but they went for Attack as the translation so you either lose the name-drop or you lose the best meaning. It's a crappy side effect of sticking with the Engrishy name.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007




Holy poo poo that is an insanely bad translation.

Wait, are they in some kind insane memory-based time loop?

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 29, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TFRazorsaw posted:

I need to ask you guys a question.

I've been reading up on what's developed in the manga, and the second season is coming up soon. I have to say, reading up on Isayama's, err, questionable politics has made me side eye a lot of what's been revealed. Notably the whole "Paradis Island" thing with the cowed together people forced to endure under puppet rulers and trapped inside by a controlling outside government" stuff.

I don't really want to start a fight or debate anyone or say they're terrible for reading it, or even get into an argument about what the allegory may or may not be saying. I just wanted to ask a question. How... overt is all of this when you're actually reading it? Like, I enjoyed these characters before a lot of stuff came to light, and I'm wondering how much of this may or may not overtake the story.

Again, not trying to lay any accusations here or start a debate. I just read some details that, based on what I know of the author, gave me pause and I wanna find out how prominent it may or may not be.

I would say it isn't that overt if you're not looking for it and in fact is obscured enough that, at least at this point, it feels like it's skimming more than diving in.

That said it's hard to say where it will go and it absolutely gets into uncomfortable territory sometimes.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Sarcophallus posted:

There's just something a bit odd about being uncomfortable with someone's art work and story telling because of their personal opinions.

Like, I don't think Ayn Rand is a good person, but Atlas Shrugged isn't going to make me uncomfortable, and she lays her views on real thick.

If you can handle the grotesquery of giant humanoid things chewing people I think you'll be ok.

That's really a dumb argument.

Atlus Shrugged is explicitly about pushing and promoting her political views. It should make you uncomfortable if you don't agree with them because it actually does motivate and influence people. Like this isn't even hypothetical, I can point you to multiple politicians influenced by that book and it's drat near a college tradition for someone to read it and be motivated by it.

It is entirely possible for artwork that is pushing certain political views to influence someone. In fact that is frequently the point of artwork. We had a goddamn Supreme Court Justice of the United States cite the television show 24 as justification for torture and Japan's certainly had plenty of their own problems with stuff like that too.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jan 1, 2017

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



I wonder if the time skip means that Armin trained up his Titan self offscreen so they'll skip all of that for him.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



The manga, in retrospect, does a lot of super-suspicious stuff that you don't notice through a combination of not looking for it, the art being kinda bad, and clever direction. It's a lot harder to hide that stuff in animation because you're not glancing over one panel briefly.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



So, I forget:

We're told that each of the 'special' Titans is a unique and irreplaceable type, right?

What does that mean for the Colossal Titans in the walls?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



JahRoo posted:

The flashbacks are cool because they expand on stuff that was sort of implied but unanswered how they attacked the wall, Annie's role, where their cover story came from, etc.. At the same time it's also frustrating because it's been several chapters since the timeskip and we still haven't seen any of the dudes from Paradise and have no idea what they're planning. It seems like we might still be a chapter or two away from returning to Eren and co.

It's probably because their return to the story is going to be explosive and violent and things need to be properly set up before they are demolished.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Kild posted:

I figured the asian part was the ackerman part

That wouldn't jive with Levi, would it?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Turin Turambar posted:

I suspect it could be all a plan to finally get the Warhammer titan. As we are seeing now, she is nigh invulnerable.

... when she's blastin'?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



SatansBestBuddy posted:

fuuuuuuuuck that was the good poo poo

I am still intensely curious what the hell's happening in Paradise. Did they eliminate the titans and reclaim the whole island? Did Eren manage to control them somehow? Are they still walled up? So much of the story before now was about breaking free from the walls and the titans, and they accomplished both, but now we flash forward three years and we still don't know the full effect of their victory. Like, they have complete control of the government of Paradise, they have far greater understanding of how titans work along with the hidden history the royals were covering up, they managed to get into the basement and see the ocean and as readers we get none of that hard fought victory, instead we jump ahead to the next conflict.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's killing me not knowing what's going on back on the island.


They created a giant guillotine to kill all the titans. It turned out that without people intentionally supressing the ways to dealing with Titans they're not that hard to resolve.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



EmmyOk posted:

I'm enjoying it much more this time through, I think when it was first airing I was twenty and a hipster who hated something getting popular with the normies as well as being a bit fed up with super bleak things. The titans are really creep and these giant red dudes are so unfair how are you even supposed to hurt them? That dude ran through a wall and iirc Eren is only normal titan sized. I also stopped one episode shy of Levi who I am informed is one rude dude.

Jesus. I had a brief moment of "why are you treating that like it was so long ago" before I remembered the anime started five goddamn years ago.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Viridiant posted:

I recall it being a complete surprise to most people. It's well put together because it's the sort of thing that seems obvious in hindsight but really wasn't. I wasn't looking at these threads as much back then so I can't remember what the general theories were unfortunately. As I recall there was one person in particular who got it pretty spot-on? I don't think that was on SA though, I just remember people talking about that here.

Someone with a better memory can expound on that.

Yeah, there was an oft-linked forum post where someone made an extremely well reason argument based off context clues that figured out the identity of the shifters and people were like "naaaah, that's ridiculous" until they got retroactively proven entirely right.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



a.lo posted:

Who am I rooting for

Meat.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Manatee Cannon posted:

it does happen a lot in manga tbh

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



ATP_Power posted:

I know it's not gonna happen but a sadistic part of me wants the next episode to end on this shot:


I forget what was the key actually for?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Kerning Chameleon posted:

The Wall Titans weren't crystallized, though, we saw that in their reveal. The wall was built around them.

I thought the idea was that they made the wall by crystallizing themselves.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TheHan posted:

I think if it was done well, it wouldn’t leave room for debate at all. If people are arguing whether you intended to demonize the Jewish race, that’s like my bar for “Did not convey your ideas clearly”

That's not really genuinely fair at all. If your argument is "people can take negative things away" then almost nothing can follow your rules. You unironically have people who will argue that ANY sufficiently evil group was in the right. There are people who claim that Voldemort from Harry Potter was objectively in the right despite being a literal snake-faced evilman.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TheHan posted:

Yeah you can take it to an extreme, but that’s true of anything. I’ve never read Harry Potter but from what I’ve heard, Voldemort is just wizard hitler and wants to do genocides. I’m assuming there’s nothing in the text that implies he’s in the right for wanting to just do evil things, and only the most liberal interpretations of it could come to that conclusion. That’s akin to those edgelords who college who would try and argue that Hitler was good for Germany, actually


Then you can point to anything else. The Empire from Star Wars, Starship Troopers, Zeon, X-Men, it doesn't really matter which. There will be a not-insignificant group of people who take that message away from something that has ambiguity in *any* form.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TheHan posted:

So why specifically use imagery from the one instance in history where one side was 100% in the wrong and lying about everything? .

... Are you being serious right now? Like seriously? That isn't even the only time in the past hundred years, let alone the only time in history.

Edit: Like seriously, you've had a weird undercurrent to what you've been saying and this seems to bring it into light. You seem to be arguing "genocide can be justified" and your complaint is that AoT is bad because it uses the 'one instance in history where one side was 100% wrong and lying about everything' which seems to imply you think all the other times the 'one side' actually had a point for the awful insane atrocities they committed?

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 7, 2019

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TheHan posted:

Hey, the point's this:

Attack on Titan's doing a morally grey story where everyone's lovely to each other and there's layers to both sides that have caused them to justify doing terrible things. Eldia attacks world, Marley attack Eldia, Marley attacks world.

The holocaust was an objective atrocity and if someone's implying that there was any grey in it or that it was retribution for an earlier incident then hell yeah people are gonna start seeing red flags. The whole point is that it doesn't fit into a morally grey story so using that specific imagery was a huge misstep.

And, I just put 'the' instead of 'this' by mistake.

And this is where the issue lies. You seem to think that these things are different if there's 'justification' in it, ignoring that historically there is always justification for it to the people who do it. Many times those justifications are nonsense bullshit and even when they are based on something 'real' that real thing is twisted into nonsense. The idea that there is such thing as an 'unambiguous' mass murder is pretty much ignoring history, because people will always try to justify themselves and even if there is any truth to imagined reasons that doesn't suddenly make it okay.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TheHan posted:

If anything that makes it sound even more out of place. Yeah there are people who’ll try and justify the holocaust, those people are nazis. Why open the holocaust door and invite comparisons between one side of your conflict to nazis, especially when your theme is about violence begetting violence and no side being justified in their actions. Cause now one side looks like nazis, and the other looks Jewish. Just open any other door.

So this actually does come back to the fact that you did mean to type 'the one' and not 'that one.' You think *any other comparison* would be okay. Do you not realize how awful that sounds?

Like let's just spitball here. What door would you open there that would be more acceptable to you?

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



TBH I think it's best not to try to overexplain the Titans. No explanation is really going to hold satisfying weight and just "it's a weird thing that happened" is enough for the story.

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