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Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Captain Splendid posted:

This is unironically one of the best Star Wars duels
I love that Obi-Wan's killing blow is a counter to the move that killed Qui-Gon.

edit: for clarity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLqliBa4yc

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Apr 4, 2019

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Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




A muppet fighting Count Dracula with laser swords is the most Star Wars thing ever, and you're a big dumb dork.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




galagazombie posted:

R1 in general is the odd man out of the Disney films when it comes to design work. The ships, droids and costumes were all distinct and memorable while simultaneously looking like they come from a deleted scene of the OT. Say what you will about the film
It's extremely good?

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I honestly don't know what a "massive backlash" means in the context of TLJ still pulling in well over a billion and several times its production budget. Solo not so much, but that was a very troubled production. Strangely, all my friends have Issues with TLJ but enjoyed Solo. I can't help but think that's in large part because Solo is an adventure story that doesn't really grapple with anything meaningful.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




The Republican Party has the support of maybe 30% of the people, but controls all three branches of the federal government and most state governments because our electoral system is massively rigged. So I agree, we have millions of people with a lot of misdirected energy, having these political arguments about and within cultural products because real political struggle is a non-starter.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Maz is a lousy character because there's really nothing to resolve there. She exists to deliver exposition and a lightsaber. Yes, she puts off the question of where she got it with "A story for another time" but Rey might as well have found it on the ground.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




The entire industry of YouTube people making reviews that are longer than the thing they're reviewing should be eliminated by a Stalinist purge.

Dr.Radical posted:

I thought his deal was weed. He was/is known as a prolific cheefer
He owes money to Kanjiklub and the Choom Gang.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




My initial impression of Episode IX, which time and reflection hasn't really changed, is that it's a Star Wars ripoff that just so happens to be an official Star Wars movie.

As the final chapter of a story I've been following since I was a toddler, it's almost criminally irresponsible. I deeply loathe the sort of nerd who quibbles about how magic powers and warp drives work, but fantastical settings do need some rules, or else the story is just "And then this happens, and then this happens, and then this happens..." from start to finish. Episode IX plays out like a Star Wars story ad-libbed by a little kid. It's Star Wars: Episode Starcrash: Axe Cop.

Now you can have hyperspace chases across the galaxy in the span of a minute, sure. The Force can teleport things and heal wounds and grab spaceships and disable an entire fleet, sure. The entire sequel trilogy was a plot by the same villain, sure. Palpatine has an entire military literally hidden under a tarp on a secret planet, sure. A "Third World" coalition materializes out of nowhere to save the heroes. We never find out who the Knights of Ren are, but there's a stadium-sized Greek chorus of more spooky robed wizards. Also Leia was a Jedi this whole time, and some other stuff I don't remember.

Episode IX discards all logic in the service of pastiche, and I think that in that regard it mostly succeeds. It's got dogfights, gunfights, and lightsaber fights. (I'm a lightsaber fight guy and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount and quality of lightsaber fights.) The Palpatine reveal is dumb as hell but also perfect: it's a mishmash of plot elements from Starcrash and Galaxy of Terror with a bit from Battle Beyond the Stars.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Currently, my favourite Official Star Wars Pastiche is "playing the arcade mode of Battlefront II while waiting for the story mode to load." I can be Kylo Ren or, even better, the Stormtrooper With Extra-Fancy Gun.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




TheDeadlyShoe posted:

I'm of the impression that JJ is addicted to making Trailer Moments .
Those moments are the skeleton of the movie. It's possible that nothing else was possible with Disney Star Wars.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Thanks to Wookieepedia, I now know the truth about the Knights of Ren, and once again it's gloriously stupid. They're the Sons of Anarchy, but they dress like the demon bikers from Mandy, also they don't have bikes.

Abrams said they were going for a Mad Max vibe, but with Star Wars being a 70s New Age deal, it's impossible for me not to think of stuff more like Psychomania and Werewolves on Wheels. It's a dark mirror to Luke becoming a hippie warrior and creating the First Earth Battalion.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




mycot posted:

The Reylos are ultimately right because Kylo Ren's and Rey's endings suck and don't actually resolve anything (other than who Rey's parents were in the most literal sense I guess??)
For a certain definition of "right" that involves screaming, crying, and making death threats about how right you are.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I'm weirded out by people who presumably self-identify as antiracist, anti-sexist, etc. zeroing in on things like Kylo saying "You know I can take whatever I want" and making him out as a symbolic Abusive Boyfriend, instead of his command of a vast fascist military machine.

Straight White Shark posted:

It's outright stated that they have to give away their own life force to do that, so it's pretty clear that between a dead person + a seriously injured person there's just not enough to go around for both.
How many miracles can Baby Yoda perform before he ages into a regular crusty-rear end Yoda?

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I'm going to assume that the lawsuit is for defaming and slandering Kylo Ren.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I can't help but be curious about when they're going to make media set post-Episode IX, because the way they hosed around with the setting really makes it anything-goes from there on out. Are there any more remnants of the Empire left? Is there a New New Republic? Is Rey gonna start another Jedi temple? Was R2-D2 just piloted by porgs the whole time?

I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the same stunt from Star Trek: Into Darkness where they just retcon the change to how warp drives work.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I don't expect Disney to produce spin-offs in every medium for decades; I expect them to hyperexploit Star Wars until the franchise is burnt out, because that's what capitalism does.

AFAIK, everything they have coming out and everything they have planned is set before the sequel trilogy, so they don't have to resolve any thorny issues.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Why would she? It was established early on that she has no friends because she thinks she's better than them. Luke taught her how to sit on a rock and think about waves and flowers, not empathy.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Tom Tucker posted:

Reboot and recast everyone and do the Thrawn trilogy.
I have only passing familiarity with the EU, but it seems like Disney Star Wars mined it for ideas. Thrawn, of course, but wasn't there also a comic series where the Emperor cloned himself and wants to possess Luke or something like that?

Edit: And Han and Leia had a son that fell to the Dark Side, right?

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 2, 2020

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Jedi being severed from the force is such an excellent characterization hook its a crime they didn't use it.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but it immediately strikes me as Dungeons & Dragons poo poo that should never even have been let into the EU, like Grey Jedi.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Eimi posted:

Also you can argue Grey Jedi have been a thing since the OT since Luke does a poo poo job of acting like any of the other Jedi shown,
So if a character isn't a lovely stock character, we need to come up with new terminology to explain this?

Grey Jedi are based on an dumbass understanding of the Force that conforms to the alignment charts from AD&D. It's for nerds with broken brains.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Leia merges her mind with Kylo’s before Rey stabs him. This kills Leia’s body, as we see, but she has uploaded herself into Kylo’s head - and communicates to him in the guise of Han. So to repeat, for those not keeping track: Harrison Ford plays Princess Leia, disguised as Han Solo, inside the mind of Kylo Ren - who is himself inside the mind of Rey, who is her own grandpa. At the end of the film, Rey also pays respect to Owen and Beru Lars, therefore literally becoming the female Luke she figuratively was at the start.

This is the good poo poo. This is the Zardoz poo poo. If you want to do something to undermine “bloodlines”, this is miles beyond just saying Rey’s folks were poor.

Other stuff is less important. Yes all the action scenes suck. Yes, entire sections of the film are obviously presented in the wrong order, as if they got the reels mixed up. But this contributes to the idea that the usual laws of chronology no longer apply, and the storytelling becomes analogous to how the Falcon now travels exclusively by smashing directly into multiple planets at full speed.
The snake that eats its own tail, forever and ever. I know where I came from--but where did all you zombies come from? You aren't really there at all. There's only me, Sheev, here alone in the dark.

I miss you dreadfully!

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Currently, the thing about Episode IX that I keep thinking about is that it makes the entire nine-film series into Sheev's Story.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




To that you must add the plot points that were implied to be meaningful and then just go nowhere, like the Knights of Ren being nothing. Solo was full of that sort of thing.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




And then, in Episode IX, they can go to hyperspace at a moment's notice and wind up in a planet's atmosphere. Which raises the question of why armies don't suicide-bomb entire civilizations with a few starfighters traveling at multiples of C.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Indeed. If I could instantly teleport my car to a specific spot in Philly so I don't have to drive all the way there, I wouldn't warp into traffic.

Basebf555 posted:

I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.
Well yeah, every spaceship fight in the series hinged on a logic that this movie throws out immediately.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Starks posted:

I thought Kylo putting the helmet back together was an extremely salty swipe at Rian Johnson. Like JJ knew the movie was poo poo and was already making excuses for it.
This would have made sense if he was rejoining the Knights of Ren, if that meant anything at all, but it never did.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Palpatines can jump to hyperspace, it's another thing they invented just for this one.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




I'm watching it again on IMAX tonight. Yes, yes, I know.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Low Desert Punk posted:

i honestly don't know if it's possible to make a film that the hardcore star wars fans wouldn't like

i guess if it had zero tiny aliens to make into funko pops
Everyone loves Babu Frik, the adorable frik that hacks droids! We regret to inform you that the Frik is racist.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Random crap:

Battlefront 2 has a scene where you play Han Solo. You're trying to meet an Imperial informant at Maz's bar. You beg Maz to identify the informant, and she eventually agrees. She admits she doesn't know the guy, and suggests you ask around the bar, which you would have done anyway before the cut-scene interrupted you.

Maz is the most worthless character in Star Wars.

The Little Death posted:

Kylo is not a consistent character, because Rian tried to actually give him a character arc instead of what JJ was doing. I mean, if you think about what Kylo was saying in TFA, he was essentially a Darth Vader cosplayer, the equivalent of becoming an Anime Nazi because your grandfather was Goebbels.
Well, no. That's silly "Rey is a Star Wars fangirl" logic. Kylo Ren's grandfather was a knightly crusader, ex-Jedi, and top leader in a fascist government. So is Kylo Ren. He's less of a "cosplayer" than, say, Alessandra Mussolini.

istewart posted:

I've always felt like Kylo Ren in TFA was a focus-grouped villain meant to appeal to Disney's target families... he's an over-privileged suburban white kid who's throwing a temper tantrum because he didn't get the toy or video game that he wanted. (How do I know? I used to be just that kind of kid!) Much more relatable, and much less intimidating (and potentially nightmare-inducing) than imposing figures like Darth Vader or Darth Maul.
I think you have it backwards. Kylo Ren is a fascist and a member of a knightly order, imitating his grandfather. It's the fandom that looks at this character and "decodes" him as an angry white boy, a manchild who hates his parents, a stalker, a Gamergater, etc. This results in a truly bizarre viewpoint where Kylo Ren is a dictator, complicit in the deaths of billions, but fans only hate him because he reminds them of a creep who messaged them on Tinder.

As far as I know, Disney didn't try to stoke a "Lady Ghostbusters" style controversy via marketing. Episode IX is all about fanservice, and it's easier to satisfy people with laser fights and cute puppets than with character moments, where it's especially hard to please as many people as possible. Encouraging a bunch of mini-fandoms that are all rabidly opposed to each other, so that you can never do more than appease one segment of your customer base, is the opposite of what Disney wants.

The Marvel brand is where Disney creates these epic political conflicts with huge stakes, then makes everything about the characters' personal relationships. If they were doing the exact same thing in Star Wars, Kylo Ren wouldn't have to die--it's totally okay to redeem Space Hitler because he became besties with Space Truman.

Unoriginal Name posted:

So the guy who gives the keynote speech at the First Order nazi rally on the day they blow up the Republic is the guy who turned spy

Clarste posted:

He has no ideals, just hate. And he hates Kylo Ren. Makes sense to me.
Hux is an orthodox fascist propagandist, a stereotype of a prim, pompous, ultimately cowardly Nazi--Joseph Goebbels or Colonel Klink. The Knights of Ren are the Wolves of Vinland, Pagan's MC, and the psycho Catholic fascists from Nazi puppet regimes. To Hux they're a pack of scruffy, dirty, low-class hippie freaks.

Hux was never comfortable with the religious aspect of Snoke's regime, and now that he's dead, Kylo Ren spends all his time on holy crusades with his smelly biker bros, going after Palpatine when he should be finishing off the Resistance. Meanwhile, Hux has been demoted to a meaningless cabinet position. He hates Kylo's guts, but not for entirely personal reasons.

Vitamin P posted:

They even had a C3PO death scene, just have him die to broadcast his translation skill over the same magic network Palpatine was using to scare people and bam, that's a good narrative, but no they had to make everything be pointless and empty instead.
After a rewatch, I gotta say, his death scene would have been incredibly cruel if it was a real death scene. Poe obviously not giving a poo poo, Frik pressing the button right as he proposes an alternative, etc.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

I’m honestly surprised that fans aren’t absolutely furious about this. Undead Palpatine gets all the attention, because everyone loves the prequels, but the actual massive twist in ROS is that literally every conflict in Star Wars was the work of the Exogolians from planet Exogol.
Tomorrow belongs to Rey Skywalker. In the new trilogy, she will finally defeat the Judeo-Bolshevist conspiracy that keeps starting all these Star Wars.

Barudak posted:

I just realized with this being "High Republic" era disney will be unable to resist including Darth Plageis or the inventor of X-wings
I agree with the viewpoint that Plagueis is much more interesting as an occult myth than as an actual guy who bought Sheev Palpatine his first chemistry set.

Hobo Clown posted:

Who is Snoke supposed to have been a clone of? Is it a poorly grown and rushed version Palpatine? Random Sith mook #6731? Grown from the Force like Anakin but without a human mother?
Probably Palpatine, but it doesn't matter. Palpatine needs a disposable, powerful pawn. There are no good candidates on Hell Planet, and he's pressed for time, anyway. The inevitable power struggle is also too much of a hassle. So he just grew a clone that's chock-full of midichlorians. The side effects are looking like an elderly burn victim, and being extra tall (to hold all the midichlorians).

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




The Little Death posted:

Right, I'm saying that Kylo is a caricature of Darth Vader, himself originally a one note antagonist representing the opposite of Obi-wan in ANH. Kylo in TFA is not a person, he's a cardboard cutout who's motivation appears to be mimicking his grandfather (who he never knew or met) because "something" happened that drove him to it. He seems to be evil for the sake of evil, it's not even clear why he wants power, or what he is angry at. This is because JJ Abrams doesn't think in terms of realized character arcs, but thinks of characters purely in tropes, references, and cliches. Rian took that and tried to set up a theme between Kylo's obsession with his legacy, and Rey lack of legacy, to try and come up with a story to tell. TFA has no story to tell, nothing in it matters or leads anywhere.
Even if Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope never got any sequels or prequels, Vader is not a one-note antagonist. He's at odds with the rest of the Empire as we see it. He has a trusted junior officer, but nothing but mutual acrimony with the High Command. He defers to Tarkin but is skeptical of his wunderwaffe. He serves the Emperor directly as a Lord, and still holds the mystical beliefs of the knightly order he betrayed.

I'm not a fan of Abrams, but Johnson is the one who gutted Kylo's motivation. In TFA, Kylo begs his grandfather's spirit for strength to reject "the Light" and "finish what [Vader] started." Presumably Luke told his students the truth about Vader. Kylo believes in Vader's mission to bring order to the galaxy via dictatorship. TLJ makes it personal--Kylo was very hurt by Luke, and Snoke "corrupted" him because he wasn't thinking straight.

When Luke shows up, Kylo loses his loving mind. Luke is cool and calm about this. He is the better man. Kylo's not! He's dumb and so goddamn crazy!!!

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




John Wick of Dogs posted:

Mike RLM's fan canon was this is the real Palpatine and the one from episodes 1-6 was a clone the whole time. I'll add to that and say he was Syfo-dias
If that were true, it wouldn't even mean that Sheev Palpatine was fake, just that Palpatine is a demonic entity possessing multiple bodies. Which is already true.

Why do people watch that crap? It's like a half-step above CinemaSins.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Rey Skywalker is, the Palpateen.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




JagerNinja posted:

This actually reminds me of the Imperial Radch series by Ann Leckie. A single emperor overseeing a galaxy would kind of be terrible, so the empire is ruled by many clones of one emperor that are all kept in sync over the vast reaches of space to keep a united front. Until they fall out of sync and the emperor ends up in a civil war with herself. Which is a way better Star Wars plot than what we got.
Diocletian, eat your heart out.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




McCloud posted:

Disney need to stop spreading out the story over 20 different mediums to cash in on fans desperately buying this stuff in the hopes it will fix the "plot holes" and offer a coherent narrative
Disney's greed doesn't explain why the films are incoherent. They'd still be releasing tie-ins if the films were masterpieces that could only be hurt by spinoffs, because the tie-ins will turn a profit.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




SuperMechagodzilla posted:

(Pop Quiz: can you name the other Star Wars character who wears only gold, and sits on a throne as god-king?)

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




There aren't any fictional bad guys that haven't been compared to Trump by someone at some point, so the point is moot.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Ignis posted:

Isn't everything in Nature force-sensitive by default or...???

Man idk anymore


Christ on a spike, I absolutely loathe it. I guess this is part of the new canon, then? This is that horrible Dungeons & Dragons logic making its way into Star Wars again--where Good and Evil are literally types of particle. So you have absurd situations where you can make an inanimate object full of Goodness, and then an Evil person can use a Good battleaxe to murder a Good person.

It's not just a theoretical problem, because it leads to moronic fancanon like Grey Jedi, and interpreting "Palpatine clouded the Jedi's vision" to mean that he literally cast a magic spell that blocks their Detect Evil spells. Magic artifacts are the worst inclusion in the canon--the biggest mistake in the Clone Wars series, and possibly dumber than anything in Episode IX.

Franchescanado posted:

I've watched the whole thing with friends who have Disney+, and it's pretty good! It's the closest to "Star Wars Western" as we're gonna get outside of the train robbery in SOLO, and it has a nice sense of adventure. Surprisingly worth the hype, and I was prepared to hate it.
They could just do every anodyne plot from every Western TV show from the 50s and 60s, but in Star Wars, and it would be a fine series.

Darth TNT posted:

Does anyone know if the Knights who say Ren were force users?
According to the new comic book, yes. They're sensitives who don't have proper training, so their powers just make them better fighters and they can, like, bend a spoon.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jan 7, 2020

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Lift rocks, burn trees, every day.

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Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




YaketySass posted:

As the complaints about the prequels expanded a particular kind of liberal commentary developped on the franchise, trying to pin what was wrong with that particular setting.
ADAM CURTIS: But then, something strange happened...

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